**GM preparing for bankruptcy**

[Wally]

Yeah, I think there was one around 1900 too.

[z80]

G'day mate...small world...;)

Originally Posted by mikmak

Either you're 75+ or there isn't much you remember about the 60-61 recession. .

Err...we are in a recession now..haven't you heard?

Guess that only makes me need to justify back to 1975.

Bit young for you I 'spose.

Originally Posted by mikmak

What on earth contributed to your assessment of Ford being a stamping operation in 5 years? .

I could tell ya but i'd have to shoot ya....

Originally Posted by mikmak

+ after the recession...erm, recedes, there will still be a great demand for energy and ore. I would imagine that in 2010, there may well be high unemployment, but we should well and truly be in a trough by then.

Economics is interesting, try and read about it.

Hint: what do you call it when a recession is actually bigger than a recession?

(starts with a "D")

[mikmak]

lol. Piotr. When the value of the US Dollar crashes, Bent8 will be rolling in mars bars, whereas everyone else (whom has no gold) will be using green backs as tallyhos.

[imugli]

Originally Posted by mikmak

lol. Piotr. When the value of the US Dollar crashes, Bent8 will be rolling in mars bars, whereas everyone else (whom has no gold) will be using green backs as tallyhos.

Couldn't have said it better, mikmak.

Gold has been THE universal currency for 5000 years. Paper money has been around for how many?

Yes, the price of gold fluctuates, just like any currency, just like any stock, just like any other trade-able commodity.

But, as mikmak said, wait and see what happens when the value of the US$ tanks. Gold will be the thing that talks...

[The Stylist]

Here's a bit of an update on the GM situation, with one measure that will hurt Holden with its US VE exports.

From news.yahoo.com
GM to announce brand changes, restructuring moves

By TOM KRISHER, AP Auto Writer – 1 hr 12 mins ago
DETROIT – General Motors Corp. will announce details of its massive restructuring plan on Monday, including the demise of its storied Pontiac brand, more factory closures and bigger job cuts as it fights to avoid bankruptcy protection.

The struggling automaker must make the announcement in advance of a planned offer to its bondholders to swap debt for company stock. GM owes $28 billion to large and small bondholders, and under Securities and Exchange Commission rules, it must disclose its operational plans before making an exchange offer.

Two people briefed on GM's plan said the company has decided to close more factories than the five it announced in February. But the locations of the doomed factories will not be identified Monday, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the plan has not yet been made public.

One of the people said GM will list specific numbers of blue-collar job cuts, and announce another round of U.S. salaried job cuts beyond the 3,400 completed last week.

Chief Executive Fritz Henderson has said the company will go further and faster in making its cost cuts to reduce the number of cars and trucks it needs to sell to break even. One of the people briefed on the plan said GM will accelerate many cuts previously planned for 2014 to instead take place between now and 2010, although specifics were not available.

Both people confirmed that the plan includes the death of Pontiac, famous for the Trans Am sports car and the GTO. Efforts in the last few years to market Pontiac as performance-oriented brand failed to work. The company had said it wanted to keep Pontiac as a niche brand with one or two models, but is buckling under tremendous government pressure to consolidate its eight brands, several of which lose money.

The people said GM won't have much new information on Hummer, Saturn or other brands, including Europe's Opel. GM has indicated it wants to focus on four core brands, Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick.
Also to be announced Monday will be a target number for dealer reduction, as well as details of GM's bond exchange offer. But exact numbers were not available Sunday night.

The 9 a.m. EDT news conference will include Chief Executive Fritz Henderson, Chief Financial Officer Ray Young, North American President Troy Clarke and Mark LaNeve, vice president of North American sales and marketing.
GM is living on $15.4 billion in government loans and faces a government-imposed June 1 deadline to restructure or go into bankruptcy protection.

The government's restructuring demands include swapping at least two thirds of GM's unsecured bond debt for equity in the company. Such a move would help GM straighten out its debt-laden balance sheet.
Chrysler LLC, which is living on $4 billion in government loans and is expected to get $500 million more, faces a Thursday deadline to restructure and ink an alliance deal with Italian automaker Fiat SpA. The government also wants Chrysler to exchange much of its $6.9 billion in debt for equity in the company, but with the deadline fast approaching, Chrysler and its secured debtholders remain far apart.

Both GM and Chrysler also must win concessions from the United Auto Workers union. The UAW said late Sunday that it had reached agreement on concessions with Chrysler, Fiat and the U.S. government. Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne was in the U.S. as talks continued for the automaker to take a 20 percent stake in Chrysler in exchange for its small-car technology.

[mikmak]

Oh and g'day z80. Hows your '83 going

[z80]

Originally Posted by mikmak

Oh and g'day z80. Hows your '83 going

What's an '83?


How's that old pushrod engine going?

[vztrt]

Bit of an update

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-n...0503-ar7w.html

GM could follow Chrysler into bankruptcy: analysts
Joseph Szczesny
May 3, 2009 - 2:59PM

General Motors could soon follow Chrysler into bankruptcy protection and the process is unlikely to be simple or swift for either troubled automaker, analysts warned.

"Bankruptcy may indeed be the last, best option to restructure General Motors because of the multitude of challenges the company faces and its deeply entrenched stakeholders," said Doug Bernstein, head of Plunkett Cooney's banking, bankruptcy and creditors' rights law practice group.

"But it's unrealistic to expect that the process will go smoothly and quickly," Bernstein said.

"The company is massive, its operations are complex, and it has thousands of potential claimants and interested parties."

In announcing Chrysler's bankruptcy Thursday, President Barack Obama insisted that "Chrysler and GM are going to come back" and said a restructuring under court protection, along with a partnership with Italy's Fiat, would give Chrysler "a new lease on life."

While Obama said his team would continue to work with GM to develop a long-term viability plan ahead of a June 1 deadline he also warned that "we simply cannot keep this company or any company afloat on an endless supply of tax US dollars."

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper warned that both the US and Canadian governments "will insist that all of the stakeholders make the sacrifices necessary to ensure the long-run viability" of General Motors.

"If they do not, governments will not participate in the restructuring," he said after announcing that the Canadian government would allocate 2.4 billion US US dollars to help Chrysler emerge from bankruptcy.

A smattering of bondholders were blamed for blocking a deal to restructure Chrysler out of court and GM's bondholders seem equally intransigent.

A committee representing those bondholders went public hours before Chrysler's bankruptcy was formally announced Thursday with demands for a significantly larger equity stake than has been offered by the Obama administration.

The debt for equity exchange at GM also dwarfs that at Chrysler, which had fewer than 100 principal financial creditors.

At GM, any exchange must involve more than 120 major financial institutions, ranging from banks to pension funds, and about 100,000 individual investors.

Another stumbling block to a GM deal is a plan to eliminate the Pontiac brand and selling off Hummer, Saab and Saturn, said Jay Gleischman, managing partner of 4Gen Consulting in Troy, Michigan.

"Everybody knows Treasury is playing hardball," he said.

"But it's going to be for different reasons than Chrysler. It's going to be to sever its relations with dealers."

GM has said it wants to eliminate 42 percent of existing dealerships, reducing the number from 6,246 in 2008 to 3,605 by the end of 2010.

The plan has met resistance from the National Automobile Dealers Association, which has asked dealers to contribute to a legal defense fund.

A further complication is the impact the Chrysler bankruptcy and plant idling at both automakers will have on the already-stressed supply base.

David Allardice, an economist at Walsh College outside Detroit, said suppliers are already bracing for the worst.

"Regarding General Motors, others took the view that they could 'see the train coming' with the announcement of nine weeks of plant shutdowns," Allardice said.

Brad Coulter of O'Keefe & Associates said GM suppliers ought to pay close attention to what happens at Chrysler.

"If certain suppliers are not deemed critical in the Chrysler bankruptcy, then I would expect those same types of suppliers would be very wary of continuing to supply GM without getting paid on prior debts or going to cash in advance," he said.

© 2009 AFP

[ebxr8240]

We may all be share holders in Holden soon..
There has been talk about the Gov buying them out ??

[vztrt]

Ok a worldwide large car....

Fiat to create global car giant with GM tie up
May 4, 2009 - 6:24PM

Fiat chief executive Sergio Marchionne on Monday outlined a plan to create a new global car giant that would link up with General Motors' European operations after rescuing bankrupt Chrysler.

"From an engineering and industrial point of view, this is a marriage made in heaven," Marchionne told the Financial Times in an interview published Monday ahead of talks with German ministers on his proposal, which he wants completed by the end of May.

Fiat's share rose by more than six percent to 8.02 euros on the Milan stock exchange on Monday after news of the plan was released.

Opel of Germany forms the core of GM's European operations, which also include Vauxhall in Britain and Saab in Sweden, and Marchionne will need the backing of the German government for his ambitious plan.

The Fiat boss said the Italian carmaker and Opel would form a publicly traded company with revenues of about 80 billion euros (106 billion US dollars) and sales of six or seven million vehicles a year -- putting it on a par with Volkswagen, the world's second biggest maker behind Toyota of Japan.

The new company would make everything from gas-guzzling Jeep utility vehicles in the United States to Opel's mid-range cars and Fiat's tiny but successful Fiat 500.

"You are always taking a big gamble when you do something completely new," Marchionne told the Financial Times, which estimated that up to 9,000 jobs could be cut in the merger.

GM has 10 plants in Europe and Fiat has 11, mainly in Italy.

The Italian car boss chief wants to focus on merging the small and medium-sized operations of Fiat and GM Europe.

Fiat is to take a 20-percent stake in the new Chrysler, the third largest US car maker, following its bankruptcy. The holding can be increased to a 51-percent controlling stake from 2013 as long as Chrysler pays back massive state loans.

In Germany, according to IG Metall trade union official Armin Schild, a member of Opel's supervisory board, Fiat has prepared an offer of less than 750 million euros (990 million US dollars) for Opel.

Schild opposes the deal, telling the Taggespiegel newspaper in an interview published Monday that Opel "would not be strengthened but weakened and the domination over Opel would not end, it would be moved from Detroit to Turin."

The German government has said it will aid any new investor for Opel, which employs nearly 26,000 people in Germany. Marchionne will meet German Economy Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and Opel board members on Monday to discuss the idea.

Fiat said in a statement that it could spin off its car division, Fiat Group Automobiles, to join with Opel. Fiat and GM would remain as shareholders.

"Fiat/Opel sounds good to me," Marchionne told the FT, while adding: "If they want Opel first that's fine."

Marchionne, whose priority is the tie-up with Chrysler -- he is to start a tour of its US plants this week -- said he wanted a deal with GM completed in 30 days and the new company created in the three months after.

Fiat said in a statement released late Sunday that the Italian company's board had given "total support" to Marchionne's initiatives.

Any Fiat-GM deal would need to overcome anti-trust hurdles as well as opposition from unions.

Opel union chief Schild said he prefered a tie-up with Canadian parts maker Magna, which he said has joined with Russian investors to propose putting five billion euros into a 50 percent stake in a new Opel group.

© 2009 AFP

[R-Design]

An update on GM's situation:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575AE00204CF4

[R-Design]

One more:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575AF0080B3BA

A quote from the article:

"Production in North America was down 58 per cent for the three months to 371,000 as GM worked to reduce dealer stocks by 105,000 units to 767,000 units."

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Boss315

One more:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575AF0080B3BA

A quote from the article:

"Production in North America was down 58 per cent for the three months to 371,000 as GM worked to reduce dealer stocks by 105,000 units to 767,000 units."

Here's the report from the GM website:

http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor...tion/earnings/

[banarcus]

Then they want another $20 billion to survive the rest of the year. I dare say they will cease to exist by the end of the year. Gonesky...

[Gobes32]

Surely they are a lost cause?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Surely they are a lost cause?

Not while the US govt keep resuscitating them and propping them up....
They're a bit like a brain dead patient on life support: the body will keep living while its artificially supported, but in reality its too late..

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Not while the US govt keep resuscitating them and propping them up....
They're a bit like a brain dead patient on life support: the body will keep living while its artificially supported, but in reality its too late..

That's what it seems like. It's amazing that one company became so big that it was deemed a disaster if it should ever fail?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

That's what it seems like. It's amazing that one company became so big that it was deemed a disaster if it should ever fail?

Look at some of the companies in the banking sector, same difference.
The US wont let GM go down.

Would people's opinions be different if it were the Blue oval that were in trouble?

[schnoods]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Look at some of the companies in the banking sector, same difference.
The US wont let GM go down.

Would people's opinions be different if it were the Blue oval that were in trouble?

It aint far off it.

They reckon it wont be too long before the markets pick up, but it will be a few years before general confidence will be back to the levels of 8 months ago.

It all happens in cycles, but you cant rely on it being good for too long...

Ford will be on the same path, whether they go as far will be another kettle of fish.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Not while the US govt keep resuscitating them and propping them up....
They're a bit like a brain dead patient on life support: the body will keep living while its artificially supported, but in reality its too late..

Probably preparing the body for organ donation.

[ColourHide]

.......................

[ColourHide]

Unfortunately i think we are going to have holden stay around for sometime now.

GM(die) will restructure their business and holden will be a large part of their future. They claim holden is the only profitable arm they have, They wont cut it off anytime soon.

[Ohio XB]

They reckon it wont be too long before the markets pick up, but it will be a few years before general confidence will be back to the levels of 8 months ago.

Ford has resized for this market condition. Right now they would not be able to match production of 8 months ago. Remember, they've closed down 17 plants and reduced 52,000 people, so they are prepared to operate with a smaller market. In the years to come as the market increases they will be able to hire people at 1/2 the hourly wage and reduced benefits to ramp up production.

The "bottom" that we are at right now is not going to be the new norm The new norm. will not be what it was before, but more than now, and that is what Ford has resized, compensated, and planned for.



Steve

[DIFFWA]

Holden wont go broke, if GM file for backruptcy holden them self wont be greatly affected as it is majorly australian owned, they are listed as Holdens LTD and no longer General Motors Holden.

[ColourHide]

Originally Posted by DIFFWA

Holden wont go broke, if GM file for backruptcy holden them self wont be greatly affected as it is majorly australian owned, they are listed as Holdens LTD and no longer General Motors Holden.

When did this happen ?. I always thought gm(great mistake) bought holden fully out ?.

[Bud Bud]

Actually if you read between the lines of just about every press release that has come out of Detroit over the last year, Holden has never been mentioned amongst the doomed. Just about everything else that GM has in their arsenal has but Holden for some reason has escaped this indignity. Even Pontiac (even though they were franticly trying to resurrect it) had still been slated as disposable all along right up until its eventual demise.

GM if it survives still sees Holden as a good brand and a shining light amongst its global empire. If GM survives and closes down half of its operations and off loads its other half, Holden may be in an even more unique position to supply R/W drive to its global markets.

As for Ford Aus, this is a fantastic position to be in because if Holden not just survives but prospers under a new and refreshed GM, then Ford Aus will stand a better chance of presenting a good business case for the next generation R/W drive platform. The only reason we get our R/W drive hi-po sedans in Aus is because of the competition between Ford and Holden. Lose one, we lose the other.

Personally I can't see why GM would want keep Holden so close under it's wing if they did not have some future big plans for them. I think that if Holden made clumsy F/W drive cars like an Aurion Camry etc, they would of been doomed like the rest by now.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by DIFFWA

Holden wont go broke, if GM file for backruptcy holden them self wont be greatly affected as it is majorly australian owned, they are listed as Holdens LTD and no longer General Motors Holden.

Ahhhhm......

No !

Holden are 100 % owned my GM.

If not, who in Australia own them ? Seen a listing for Holden on the Stock market have you ?


Holden ARE in deep trouble don't believe the spin, they can't pay the redundancy payouts for their employees.....

[AlbertM]

Originally Posted by DIFFWA

Holden wont go broke, if GM file for backruptcy holden them self wont be greatly affected as it is majorly australian owned, they are listed as Holdens LTD and no longer General Motors Holden.

Holden LTD no longer exsists. It's Current name is "GM Holden".

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by AlbertM

Holden LTD no longer exsists. It's Current name is "GM Holden".

And it started making holden Cars after it was fully US owned somewhere near 80 years ago IIRC

[Jason[98.EL]]

Found this one

By Peter Whoriskey

Restructured GM to build more cars overseas
When plan completed, number of new cars built abroad will roughly double

WASHINGTON - The U.S. government is pouring billions into General Motors in hopes of reviving the domestic economy, but when the automaker completes its restructuring plan, many of the company's new jobs will be filled by workers overseas.

According to an outline the company has been sharing privately with Washington legislators, the number of cars that GM sells in the United States and builds in Mexico, China and South Korea will roughly double.

The proportion of GM cars sold domestically and manufactured in those low-wage countries will rise from 15 percent to 23 percent over the next five years, according to the figures contained in a 12-page presentation offered to lawmakers in response to their questions about overseas production.

As a result, the long-simmering argument over U.S. manufacturers expanding production overseas -- normally arising between unions and private companies -- is about to engage the Obama administration.

Essentially in control of the company, the president's autos task force faces an awkward choice: It can either require General Motors to keep more jobs at home, potentially raising labor costs at a company already beset with financial woes, or it can risk political fury by allowing the automaker to expand operations at lower-cost manufacturing locations.

"It's an almost impossible dilemma," said former labor secretary Robert B. Reich, now a professor at the University of California-Berkeley. "GM is a global company -- so for that matter is AIG and the biggest Wall Street banks. That means that bailing them out doesn't necessarily redound to the benefit of the U.S. or American workers.

"More significantly, it raises fundamental questions about the purpose of bailing out these big companies. If GM is going to do more of its production overseas, then why exactly are we saving GM?"

The administration has aroused similar complaints by shepherding a merger between Chrysler and Italian automaker Fiat. But it has extracted a promise from Fiat that it will build small cars in the United States.