FPV Sportswagon.

[merlin]

Hardly anyone would buy the thing. FPV is having a hard enough time selling its bread and butter models, why would it introduce a wagon. The Territory is an awesome SUV - in case you havn't noticed every man and his dog wants a SUV nowadays not some 1970's wagon.

As a couple my wife and I are curently looking at Territories, RAVS, CX-7's ect. I wouldn't even consider a wagon. The very thought makes me fill queasy.

I think its all about the "ability" to escape the beaten track - sure its all an illusion, in reality she'll use it to go to and from work - but in the back of your mind you know you can go shooting, camping, fishing ect in it, sleep two (or 3?) easily in the back with the sseats down + luggage + dogs, all the while looking modern not like a poxy station wagon. Storage compartments everywhere, more room than Texas, they are versatile and very easy to live with.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by naddis01

...I would suggest that it is no safer or even less safe than a Falcon....

Ancap results would say different. ;)

Falcon - Overall: 27.27 out of 37
Territory - Overall: 31.57 out of 37

[BlackLS]

If there is a wagon, please call it an Estate. Wagon sounds so unappealing.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I wouldnt buy an Egas wagon as a personal vehicle as it is a prehistoric dunger.

.

i guess you're entitled to your opinion.

you also said earlier it would be good if ford made a xr6 wagon again so that there was an wagon option for those who wanted a bit more get up and go. xr6's and xt's have the same running gear (except diff). have had since ba.

given that you are now looking at a mazda 6 i'd say space and power are not really priorities of yours.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by Grunter

Ancap results would say different. ;)

Falcon - Overall: 27.27 out of 37
Territory - Overall: 31.57 out of 37

Grunter what Falcon are you comparing? Certainly not and FG as it received 34.61 out of 37. Since the thread is calling for an FG wagon surely the FG is what should be compared to the Territory.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Grunter what Falcon are you comparing? Certainly not and FG as it received 34.61 out of 37. Since the thread is calling for an FG wagon surely the FG is what should be compared to the Territory.

No the previous model mate, being the B-series wagon in comparison to the Territory.

[Crazed]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Originally yes, but the wagon didn't stop selling, so Ford have continued with it. They expected the Territory to steal wagon sales but it didn't happen.

The answer to this is easy to work out. Just look at the figures.

Ford sell something like 400 BFIII wagons a month.

Holden have sold around 1000 Sportwagons at its peak after release. Those numbers have probably dropped down to maybe 800ish, and will continue to drop.

So the difference between Falcon wagon and Sportwagon is around 400 a month. Holdens usually sell in higher numbers than Falcon.

So Ford may only sell around 500-600 FG wagons a month if they go that way. Fleets may actually stop buying it because its not as practical as the BF wagon.

So basically Ford will not really gain any extra sales if they release an FG wagon, and if anything they will lose money on it due to the very high development costs.

This clearly show why its an extremely dumb idea to make an FG Sportwagon and the simple reason why Ford haven't done it.

Thread closed.

huh, where did you pull those wagon figures.

The Holden wagon sells around 1500 a month WITHOUT a fleet LPG version being availble yet, also many sales are high margin V8 and Calais sales.

Since its release the Holden Sportwagon has outsold EVERY SUV on the market - and even almost doubling the Territorys sales. And last month the single trim Falcon XT wagon almost matched the RWD and AWD Territory XT, TS, and Ghia in sales.

But thats right, wagons dont sell.....

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by Crazed

huh, where did you pull those wagon figures.

The Holden wagon sells around 1500 a month WITHOUT a fleet LPG version being availble yet, also many sales are high margin V8 and Calais sales.

Since its release the Holden Sportwagon has outsold EVERY SUV on the market - and even almost doubling the Territorys sales. And last month the single trim Falcon XT wagon almost matched the RWD and AWD Territory XT, TS, and Ghia in sales.

But thats right, wagons dont sell.....

Yes but they are selling about 1500 less sedans a month, IT DOES NOT MAKE HOLDEN MONEY. Yes it makes profit unit on unit, but it will more than likely not reclaim the massive amounts of R + D costs. aggain, IT DOES NOT MAKE HOLDEN MONEY.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by prydey

i guess you're entitled to your opinion.

you also said earlier it would be good if ford made a xr6 wagon again so that there was an wagon option for those who wanted a bit more get up and go. xr6's and xt's have the same running gear (except diff). have had since ba.

given that you are now looking at a mazda 6 i'd say space and power are not really priorities of yours.

I understand that the XR6 and XT have the same running gear, but when did I say "it would be good if ford made an xr6 wagon again so that there was an wagon option for those who wanted a bit more get up and go"?

I am looking at a Mazda6 because I dont want an SUV, the falcon wagon doesnt appeal and while the commodore wagon is probably what I am looking for in a wagon, I dont really want the constant electrical problems that plague the VE. What else would you suggest I look at then?

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Grunter

Ancap results would say different. ;)

Ancap would agree if there was an FG wagon :

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Crazed

huh, where did you pull those wagon figures.

The Holden wagon sells around 1500 a month WITHOUT a fleet LPG version being availble yet, also many sales are high margin V8 and Calais sales.

Since its release the Holden Sportwagon has outsold EVERY SUV on the market - and even almost doubling the Territorys sales. And last month the single trim Falcon XT wagon almost matched the RWD and AWD Territory XT, TS, and Ghia in sales.

But thats right, wagons dont sell.....

I based it on what they sold over the first couple of months, around 1000 per month. I've not heard of any other sales figures since then, but either way the figures still don't add up for an FG wagon, and the VE wagon does nothing to add volume to Holdens sales, just look how much the VE's sales figures keep dropping month after month. At least the FG is consistent month after month, consistently average, but its consistent nethertheless.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Crazed

And last month the single trim Falcon XT wagon almost matched the RWD and AWD Territory XT, TS, and Ghia in sales.

Nice try.....

Territory sold about twice as well as wagon last month....

Want to try again ?

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Ancap would agree if there was an FG wagon :

And so we go full circle.

[Gobes32]

Who here would be happy if Ford grafted an FG front end onto the wagon just like the XF/XG/XH? It's the only way the wagon would feasibly get an update because it's the cheapest option. Don't know how hard it would be to put the FG interior into wagon, but the driveline would go no worries.

[ehast13]

It's funny that we hear stuff like 'If there was amarket for it, Ford would have done it by now"

There is a market for an FG falcon that doesn't look like a BF (yes I mean the XT and XR6/8).

For years there was an FPV style market

For years there has been an lpg market for territory

Fleet buyers are exempt from special value packs, so make two grades of wagon! Base boring XT and an XT-S (or XR6 if money permits).

People used to buy s pac wagons

People bought XL-S utes

Infact, many people bought XL-S utes

Stick some alloys on it (16' will do but 17' is better - keep costs down, ride quality stays reasonable), whack the driving lights and front bumper extensions off the BFII Ghia on it and there we go. Make it a $990 option pack. Just like the old s-pac

When reps get a choice (and many do) then why not do something simple to at least try to keep them out of a Mazda 6, VE, Skoda, Kluger etc. Sometimes people like to be seen in a cooler car.

Has anyone here put alloys or a spoiler on their car? When you buy it new, and u buy in bulk, you order cars with certain features. Many reps get to choose colour, Many get floor mats and weathersheilds etc (my wife lets her reps choose many options, including colour, accessories like rear spoilers etc. She even used to let them get the sports suspension on the commies and falc's before they limited it to cops and xr6/sv6/ghi etc).

An XT -S (or XT-R) should hold better value nad look better for both the company and the driver. When the time comes to sell, it is a more attractive vehicle.

It pays off for Ford as it makes their wagon look slightly less daggy against oppsostion like mazda 6, ve, skoda etc.

Surely it would have some sort of halo effect???

Two grades of Wagon: Boring and XT-R

They even made alloys standard on FG XT now, so could it really hurt to drop a set on a wagon? along with bumper extensions and colour coded strips and a couple of cool decals - XT-R (with a cool little chrome lightning bolt at the end).

C'mon! Why not?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Crazed

huh, where did you pull those wagon figures.

The Holden wagon sells around 1500 a month WITHOUT a fleet LPG version being availble yet, also many sales are high margin V8 and Calais sales.

Since its release the Holden Sportwagon has outsold EVERY SUV on the market - and even almost doubling the Territorys sales. And last month the single trim Falcon XT wagon almost matched the RWD and AWD Territory XT, TS, and Ghia in sales.

But thats right, wagons dont sell.....

Not as crazy as your figures!! :
So what are you saying? Holden sell 2 commodore hatches for every sedan? Boy going by your figures sedan sales have plummeted since the hatch was released..

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ehast13

It's funny that we hear stuff like 'If there was amarket for it, Ford would have done it by now"

There is a market for an FG falcon that doesn't look like a BF (yes I mean the XT and XR6/8).

For years there was an FPV style market

For years there has been an lpg market for territory

Fleet buyers are exempt from special value packs, so make two grades of wagon! Base boring XT and an XT-S (or XR6 if money permits).

People used to buy s pac wagons

People bought XL-S utes

Infact, many people bought XL-S utes

Stick some alloys on it (16' will do but 17' is better - keep costs down, ride quality stays reasonable), whack the driving lights and front bumper extensions off the BFII Ghia on it and there we go. Make it a $990 option pack. Just like the old s-pac

When reps get a choice (and many do) then why not do something simple to at least try to keep them out of a Mazda 6, VE, Skoda, Kluger etc. Sometimes people like to be seen in a cooler car.

Has anyone here put alloys or a spoiler on their car? When you buy it new, and u buy in bulk, you order cars with certain features. Many reps get to choose colour, Many get floor mats and weathersheilds etc (my wife lets her reps choose many options, including colour, accessories like rear spoilers etc. She even used to let them get the sports suspension on the commies and falc's before they limited it to cops and xr6/sv6/ghi etc).

An XT -S (or XT-R) should hold better value nad look better for both the company and the driver. When the time comes to sell, it is a more attractive vehicle.

It pays off for Ford as it makes their wagon look slightly less daggy against oppsostion like mazda 6, ve, skoda etc.

Surely it would have some sort of halo effect???

Two grades of Wagon: Boring and XT-R

They even made alloys standard on FG XT now, so could it really hurt to drop a set on a wagon? along with bumper extensions and colour coded strips and a couple of cool decals - XT-R (with a cool little chrome lightning bolt at the end).

C'mon! Why not?

If they do it will you buy one?

[ehast13]

We would probably get a couple for the reps. We went to territory's a few years ago and no-one has complained but they cost us a few grand more and use a noticeable amount more juice when you pay for fuel cards. We still have some BF's and they have proven to be the better rep car, but the resale pales compared to the terri.

We pay an extra 4K for each new terri over a falc, they use (last year anyway) nearly 1600 bucks more per year than the petrol Falc and double that on our 2 E-gas falc's. Our terri's have had more down time than the falc's, tyres are more expensive (although we change them only once before selling on - barring tyre failure/damage). We get around 8k for each 2.5 year old wagon and about 13k for each terri (don't worry - we are not getting ripped off, depreciation and trade-in deals are pretty good - even now!). Financially, and from a packing space persepctive, we prefer the falc. From an image perspective we prefer the terri. We now have a couple of Peugoet 407 diesel wagons, too. Great deals recently and they look the part.

There is not a lot in it, but we would pay a bit extra for a nicer wagon because it is befitting the image of a private company, they carry more (sorry, guys. They do), they have proven to be more reliable in the hands of our reps (terri rear drivetrain, wheel alignments etc) and they are cheaper to run.

An xr6 wagon for similar money to terri would probably get equal resale to terri. A cheaper (but sadly, fictional XT-R) would probably make up the extra in image, a little in resale and a lot in running costs)

We have about 20 rep cars, Nationwide. We are small bananas. but there are other small fruit out there (Hmmm, Bananas, fruit? there is a double meaning there...) who would consider better looking wagon.

Surely it's not just us?

[naddis01]

Oops see next post

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

If they do it will you buy one?

Short answer no. If that was all it would take, why not just do put after market wheels and foggies on yourself.

Originally Posted by ehast13

We have about 20 rep cars, Nationwide. We are small bananas. but there are other small fruit out there (Hmmm, Bananas, fruit? there is a double meaning there...) who would consider better looking wagon.

Surely it's not just us?

I would consider a better looking Falcon wagon. The reason no private buyers opt for the Falcon wagon, I would suggest, is mainly its looks. I would be lining up for a wagon if it was a cross between an FG XR front end wth a VE style rear end. Sadly the fictional XT-R wouldnt do it for me. It would still look like half a 97 AU.

Ehast, being from a business buying this sort of vehicle would you buy an FG wagon if it had a VE style rear end?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by naddis01

The reason no private buyers opt for the Falcon wagon, I would suggest, is mainly its looks.

you assume a lot, with no basis.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by prydey

you assume a lot, with no basis.

Ok if I am wrong, why would you say that very few private buyers buy a BF3 wagon?

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Ok if I am wrong, why would you say that very few private buyers buy a BF3 wagon?

Let's see...

Because it's true. It's a fleet hack and that's the only reason it's still built.

As for all the other rubbish being posted here...

You're a user / chooser who has the choice of any $40,000 car. Would you choose a Falcon Wagon ? No.

If Ford spent $100 Mil putting a hatch on an FG Falcon, would you get one as part of your salary package (DEFINATELY - NO QUESTIONS ASKED) ?

Do you think they'd get their money back in this or the recent climate on that investment ?

Short answer to all those STUPID questions ....

NO !!!

Get over it, it won't happen and if you don't like it, buy a VE Hatch.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Ok if I am wrong, why would you say that very few private buyers buy a BF3 wagon?

you didn't say 'few' originally, you said 'no' private buyers buy them. i beg to differ. fleet sales may make up the major portion but believe it or not there are still those of us around who prefer a wagon over an suv and even more unbelievable for you, some of us actually like the look of the wagon. my wagon is no longer standard as seen by the pic i posted. the mods are very minor though. colour coding, g6et rims and xr6t suspension. no one tells me it looks like a pre historic dunger as you put it.

[LowEL2XR8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The HSV Tourer might make a profit ie. it will make more money than it cost to build when they sell one, but when you factor in the high R&D costs that it cost to put into production then it has to sell a certain numbers of units before the R&D is paid off, so unless it reaches that number then it isn't profitable.

So unless the original investment is paid of then its not profitable. Exactly what happened with Crewman, Adventra and One tonner. They never made any money because they didn't sell in high enough numbers to cover the R&D costs to put them on the road, hence they were dropped from sale.

But the wagon and its parts have their respective R&D in other models. The V8 engine and driveline is in the R8.
Its just a coming together of parts from all over. Only possible extra costs that I can see is maybe rejigging (???) the production line to fit the already available parts from HSV.

The R&D probably gets paid for pretty soon after that model (VE) starts to sell.
But hey I'm only guessing here. Don't hang me for my opinion.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by prydey

you didn't say 'few' originally, you said 'no' private buyers buy them. i beg to differ. fleet sales may make up the major portion but believe it or not there are still those of us around who prefer a wagon over an suv and even more unbelievable for you, some of us actually like the look of the wagon. my wagon is no longer standard as seen by the pic i posted. the mods are very minor though. colour coding, g6et rims and xr6t suspension. no one tells me it looks like a pre historic dunger as you put it.

Nice nit picking. Sorry you took the 'no' quite literally. Obviously a 'few' private buyers (such as yourself) opt for the BF wagon. I too would prefer a wagon to an SUV as I thought I had mentioned. Maybe you missed that. I am glad you are happy with your wagon and you like the look of it, but I still think that the wagon still only sells to a 'few' private buyers due to its looks. Would you consider the standard Falcon wagon to be one of the better looking wagons on the market?

[Crazed]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Nice try.....

Territory sold about twice as well as wagon last month....

Want to try again ?

I had Falcon wagon at 541 sales last month and Territory at 584 - not including SR and Turbo.

[Crazed]

Originally Posted by Crazed

I had Falcon wagon at 541 sales last month and Territory at 584 - not including SR and Turbo.

Quoting myself, this info was given to me by the local ford dealer in Qld after I asked about the low sales of Territory at service. It would be great if Vfacts would release the trim levels and bodystyles of individual models. It would be interesting to see how many G6ETs were sold for example.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Crazed

Quoting myself, this info was given to me by the local ford dealer in Qld after I asked about the low sales of Territory at service. It would be great if Vfacts would release the trim levels and bodystyles of individual models. It would be interesting to see how many G6ETs were sold for example.

Territory 765

Wagon 450

[prydey]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Would you consider the standard Falcon wagon to be one of the better looking wagons on the market?

i consider the falcon wagon the ONLY 'wagon' on the market!! try fitting a pram/stroller and luggage for 4 and esky in anything else and still be comfortable and not have the car struggling. it just can't happen.