Qld revenue camersa tolerance to drop to 3 kph

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Welcome to Victoria, we have had that for years

They allow 3k's over the limit, so if your vehicle is standard it will most likely have a 5% error built in it, meaning that if the your speedo is reading 100 k/mh then in fact you are only doing 95, which mean for the average punter they would have to be doing 108 or more (by their speedo) to cop a fine (in a 100k zone of course - LOL) - just saying

Problem is, through a 100kmh speed camera, most do 90kmh, meaning an actual 85kmh or so. Annoying. I'll sit with the needle bang on the speed limit through the camera - then increase it to 10 over as soon as im past it.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

do you watch the Highway Patrol shows? Do you see how many unlicenced drivers there are on the road? People who have lost their privilege to drive, but who choose to drive regardless

I do and it astounds me....but what % of the population are they?

Whatever the rules are, some people will always break them - that's life.

I'm no saint and have had my fair share of fines over the past 30 years, but I have certainly mellowed in my age and generally stick to the limit now. I drive a car that is more than capable of doing well in excess of the limits on freeways but I choose to stick to the limit (in the left lane) and watch the world go by me with their mobile phones in hand!

Having had to attend a traffic offenders program many years ago (as a result of me speeding to attend a breakin to one of my stores), I have a new respect for sticking to the limit and keeping the privilege of having a license. Hindsight is a wonderful thing - I could have got there 5 mins later with no fine or court costs to keep my license (94 in a 60 zone) and the result of the breakin would have been the same.

Speeding is a choice - it's up to the driver if they want to take the risk and I don't just mean copping a fine.

Everyone is different!

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Problem is, through a 100kmh speed camera, most do 90kmh, meaning an actual 85kmh or so. Annoying. I'll sit with the needle bang on the speed limit through the camera - then increase it to 10 over as soon as im past it.

Be careful doing that on the Hume Highway in Victoria because there is about 6-8 cameras strategically placed as point to point speed camera's to catch people just like you

Originally Posted by The Beast

I'm no saint and have had my fair share of fines over the past 30 40 years, but I have certainly mellowed in my age and generally stick to the limit now. I drive a car that is more than capable of doing well in excess of the limits on freeways but I choose to stick to the limit (in the left lane) and watch the world go by me with their mobile phones in hand!

Sounds just like me, I used to drive trucks for a living

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Be careful doing that on the Hume Highway in Victoria because there is about 6-8 cameras strategically placed as point to point speed camera's to catch people just like you


Sounds just like me, I used to drive trucks for a living

Haha yeah I know, I'm usually very cautious on roads and areas I don't know.

There is a few point to point cameras local to me, but they are only targetting trucks and not light vehicles. I dread the day they become cameras for all vehicles. Kinda stupid for trucks though, they do 40kmh uphill, then do 130kmh downhill and by the end their speed averages below the 100kmh anyway.

[blackf6]

We have it easy in Qld. Drove in Vic once. They have clusters of camera's. Crazy money grabbers. They flash at night too. Just to scare you.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

well done, thanks for your contribution

just calling out your hypocrisy. you want us to ground our opinions in facts and data, but you won't hold yourself to the same standard.

contrary to your opinion, most people don't have a deathwish. there is a science to setting speed limits, and there is an upper limit the majority will travel. lo and behold, when limits are set with it in mind, you get high rates of compliance.

there'll always be some who break the limits, but they'd be the minority, and surely, its *dangerous* drivers we want to target, not simply the ones who perform the equivalent of parking 30sec too long in a time-limited park?

[KobiXR6T]

What a thread. Not like anyone couldn't seen where it was coming from, or where it was headed.

We all know that it is 100% revenue raising, but at the same time as others have stated, it is entirely personal choice if you want to exceed the limits or not; however ridiculous they have become.

I've been living in the same area and driving the same roads for the last 15 or so years. They are a good mix of roads, but overall this is what I have seen.

1. Roads have been poorly maintained and degraded during that time. Pot hole patching as temp fixes, and new sections of road is very poor quality (not level, rippled corners, etc).

2. Overtaking lanes have become shorter. Instead of allowing more opportunity to pass slower moving vehicles, the merge is marked around the 3/4 mark with the rest being a pullover area/safety margin. This is OK as it gives vehicles a buffer to work with when poor decisions have been made, but still heavily relies on the judgement of both drivers to reduce impacts.

3. Speed limits have decreased. In an attempt to reduce the severity and frequency of crashes the limits have been brought down. Areas that were a hundred zone with roundabouts and recommended 40-50 signage now enforce 80,60, down to 40. A whole section of range road that used to be 80 has been stepped down first to two sections of 80, and 60 (which was comfortable cruising in good conditions), which has now been brought to 60 all the way.

4. Active patrols seem to be less prominent in that you very rarely see an officer driving and pulling people over for a word. Speed cameras, and covert ops (single officers, cars out of sight, hiding in bushes). Almost a daily occurrence.

I used to be one of those drivers who used to like to push the 10-20km over the limit given conditions allowed, but through the combination of all the above driving has become a mindless act of watching the speedo and dragging the brakes. The locations and positions that are enforced are often on overtake zones and downhill runs, and the latest approach is to hide and shoot back at cars so in many cases the driver is entirely unaware that they have even done anything until several weeks later when the pic arrives.

I'm all for policing dangerous driving, but when you need to physically slow the vehicle through a clear section of road (and hold up the natural flow), and then deal with police hiding in the bush in these positions it really leaves no doubt at all what their job has become. It's possible many doing the work feel the same as well.

The other interesting point is that any time it rains after a dry spell you can almost sit and watch the cars come off the road, even when driving at or below the new reduced signed limits. There doesn't seem to be any notable reduction in the quantity of incidents that have occurred.

Also see a lot of the phenomenon with drivers who see an overtake area and put the boot in. Either they're dulled out of their mind and driving in autopilot, or have some kind of ego to protect. Never the less, its not even worth putting the boot in to get around them now. The risk of having a photo taken and coughing up the $$$ isn't worth the little amount of time you save... so if you look at how it's changed my driving you could say that the governments approach is working. Tightening the tolerances is probably the solution to keeping the income rolling in as others fall into line.

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

and my friend, who the **** do you think pays for all the (State) Government provided goodies, do you think they just fall out of the sky.

Who pays for:
* schools
* hospitals
* roads
* all things Melbourne 'centric like football ovals, tennis courts, soccer pitches etc

Do I need to list more or do you get the idea, tax money, however that is achieved is what pays for all the goodies that you and me and our families enjoy, some-one has to pay, it is just the way it is

If you want to give your money to the Government in the way of fines, fantastic, it stops them taxing me in other ways

You seem to have a very generous view of the proficiency with which government spend tax revenue.

Government spending is generally accepted to be a very inefficient, ineffective way of creating GDP

Consumer spending on the other hand is the opposite. Speeding fines stolen from private individuals are money that otherwise goes to things like restaurant meals, domestic travel, home improvements etc etc, helping businesses which then in turn reinvest this revenue to create more productive inputs in the next period.

Every $1 that is unjustly transferred from the powerful private sector to the largely ineffective public sector is a step backwards for our economy.

If all the resources that were spent on aiding the above process were redeployed to income producing activities, we would be wealthier for it

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

do you watch the Highway Patrol shows? Do you see how many unlicenced drivers there are on the road? People who have lost their privilege to drive, but who choose to drive regardless

I'd say that's more a result of the Civic Compliance/VicRoads/SPER offices suspending licences and rego for stupid things like parking fines, unpaid tax bills, council rates, toll fees and more.

There was a bloke in the local paper I read - who had that happen over a 0.60c toll fee, which turned into nearly a grand with admin fees and overdue penalties.
Was amazing to read about.

[Road Games]

Again on Gooding Dve tonight 200m from the traffic lights on a decline stretch 4 lane rd with street lights ...

Seriously , overtime or not these blokes need to find a new spot "sigh"

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by DeJaVu GT

We have it easy in Qld. Drove in Vic once. They have clusters of camera's. Crazy money grabbers. They flash at night too. Just to scare you.

Drove down to Bluepower in Cooper st Campbellfield Vic

From Qld

4 times in the last 10yr's

Passed the locals on the ring rd like they were standing still ...

Have never seen a fine ... a bit cautious the locals may be perhaps ?

[ebxr8240]

Because any faster than speed limit is SPEEDING !!

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by b0son

just calling out your hypocrisy. you want us to ground our opinions in facts and data, but you won't hold yourself to the same standard.

contrary to your opinion, most people don't have a deathwish. there is a science to setting speed limits, and there is an upper limit the majority will travel. lo and behold, when limits are set with it in mind, you get high rates of compliance.

there'll always be some who break the limits, but they'd be the minority, and surely, its *dangerous* drivers we want to target, not simply the ones who perform the equivalent of parking 30sec too long in a time-limited park?

and do you honestly believe ****ing and moaning on an internet forum is going to change the Governments mind? Fair dinkum, get to you local politician and **** and moan to them - sit on the speed limit and get on with life mate, you will stress a lot less

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

and do you honestly believe ****ing and moaning on an internet forum is going to change the Governments mind? Fair dinkum, get to you local politician and **** and moan to them - sit on the speed limit and get on with life mate, you will stress a lot less

In a two party political system, in which neither party are offering an alternative, you'll never get change. Even when one does, like the Libs in NSW did to get in, as soon as elected they went back on their word and we now have more cameras and more penalties. Government has a vested interest in collecting fine revenue, they cant be relied on to address this impartially. Civil disobedience then becomes the only practical way to make them listen.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

after spending 13 years pulling living and dead people from cars (using jaws of life etc) bring on 0.00 BAC for everyone, simple rule, you have had a drink then you don't drive, saves confusion or misunderstanding, but then again you will always have the ******* who couldn't give a **** about other road users, because "it will never happen to me"

Yesterday one of my wifes supervisor was cleaned up at an intersection where it appears a bloke didn't give way, she is now in the Alfred hospital with suspected spinal injuries, nice lady, had her teenage son in the car

Little bit off topic but 0.000 drink driving limit is not reasonable, as you could have a few drinks on Friday night and still be over zero at lunchtime on Saturday, even a glass or two of wine over dinner could stuff you driving to work at 6am the next morning, alcohol based mouth wash in the morning would put you over for the drive to work, even the smell of aftershave will set the breathalyser off past zero, even a very drunk passenger in the car with the driver can register a small reading.

0.05 has a minimal affect and most people would not show any visible impairment at or below that level, even 0.02 is a more reasonable limit and means no alcohol can be consumed, but a bit of alcohol added to deserts at a dinner party or your cough medicine won't have you in police custody.

Keep in mind that 0 is 0, and that 0.001 would no longer be zero and you would be charged or fined, and taking your drunk mate home from the pub or driving past a beer truck will have you reading 0.001, even a beer or two the previous night over cooking the BBQ after work might get you to 0.002 driving to work the next morning. Plus the BAS machines are not that accurate as they also give people a discount on the reading ie they err on the lower side of the reading, same as speed cameras.

This is why cops give people the opportunity to have an independent blood test done after doing the BAS test (the test done in the police station or RBT bus not the road side one), as they know the blood test will give a higher reading as it is way more accurate and gives no discounts.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

and my friend, who the **** do you think pays for all the (State) Government provided goodies, do you think they just fall out of the sky.

Who pays for:
* schools
* hospitals
* roads
*

We pay taxes for all that stuff. It's just the govt inefficiency and waste means they want more, more, MORE!

[Trevor 57]

and what do you do about it, take up arms? take to the streets en-masse?

I tell you what I do, I don't speed!

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

and what do you do about it, take up arms? take to the streets en-masse?

I tell you what I do, I don't speed!

I hear what you're saying Trev, but doing nothing is the reason why we as Australians are bent over so easily. We like to whinge about it a lot, and then all we do is cop it on the chin, do nothing, while govco tightens its grip even more to ensure it squeezes every last dollar out of us before we cark it. It's banking on our ability to do nothing so it can capitalize on our negligence or blazae [sp] attitude.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I hear what you're saying Trev, but doing nothing is the reason why we as Australians are bent over so easily. We like to whinge about it a lot, and then all we do is cop it on the chin, do nothing, while govco tightens its grip even more to ensure it squeezes every last dollar out of us before we cark it. It's banking on our ability to do nothing so it can capitalize on our negligence or blazae [sp] attitude.

Exactly right, we are weak as a people in general and I am as guilty as the next person. We let things happen, we whinge and whine for a while and then just take it in the keister and move on to whinge about something else.

We as a people are too tolerant and forgiving, and would rather cook a BBQ and have a beer than take to the streets to protect our lifestyle and country.

Thats why we constantly get over run by vocal minority groups who will take to the streets yelling and screaming, and we as a people and Government will then pander to these groups in an attempt to keep them quiet so our BBQ and beers don't get disturbed, all the time we will whinge and whine about it, but we won't get off our backside do anything about it

That my friend is the Australian was of life.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Exactly right, we are weak as a people in general

I don't think we're weak but I do think that as a population we are timid.

As we age we tend to become more conservative and fearful.

It's not an attractive trait but as an aging population that's what we get.

I'm 65 but still retain my boyish rebelliousness

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Love driving in America. Got busted pulling 90mph going up an incline in a rental mustang, and a friendly state trooper pulled me up, and was amused by the fact I was from Australia, commented on the dangers of hitting a deer at 90mph, and kindly let me on my way... No ticket, and he did give me a sense he was actually concerned about my safety. Big contrast to my experience in Australia, getting pulled up by a cocky , arrogant , power tripping bully which denotes 90% of the HWP team , and is probably why they joined the HWP (the others who couldn't drive probably joined the ATO)..

The best part was trailing crazy Pickup Truck drivers pulling 100mph down the interstate, mile after mile and not getting pulled up. People in the States appear to respect the keep-to-the-slower lane principle better than Australians.

It's all good bro, everything equals itself out. People with a few millions to invest and enjoy driving will not remain in Australia.

And let me tell the faggots here in charge that believe their HWP is doing the right thing, globally most people with money DO enjoy driving, and many overseas own performance vehicles without being labelled dangerous criminals for breezing 30'ks over the speed limit.

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by b0son

In a two party political system, in which neither party are offering an alternative, you'll never get change. Even when one does, like the Libs in NSW did to get in, as soon as elected they went back on their word and we now have more cameras and more penalties. Government has a vested interest in collecting fine revenue, they cant be relied on to address this impartially. Civil disobedience then becomes the only practical way to make them listen.

The two party system is an illusion, that's another thread entirely, and one which most don't have the brain capacity to be able to comprehend.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by ronwest

I don't think we're weak but I do think that as a population we are timid.

As we age we tend to become more conservative and fearful.

It's not an attractive trait but as an aging population that's what we get.

I'm 65 but still retain my boyish rebelliousness

I found the exact opposite, as we age we get more outspoken and less tolerant.

I won't put up with excrement any longer where I might have in my younger years, I generally tell people how I feel now, rather than trying to be nice to keep the peace.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

I found the exact opposite, as we age we get more outspoken and less tolerant.

I won't put up with excrement any longer where I might have in my younger years, I generally tell people how I feel now, rather than trying to be nice to keep the peace.

Yeah, all good.

I was thinking bigger picture than telling the butcher he hasn't trimmed enough fat off my steak but if you think that as we get older we get less conservative, I'm happy to disagree.

[karlinperth]

I'd like to throw this up for an idea, a little rant I squiggled up some time back http://photoweasel.diaryland.com/SpeedCamera.html - basically I am not arguing whether "speeding" is right or wrong, just that since the onus is on the police to prove guilt, photographed license plates don't really prove anything except the government is good at raising revenue. My gripe is there's no leeway in cameras and they do NOT stop a currently-speeding driver the way a police car can .. I think we'd all agree a driver may be a danger to others on the road needs to be stopped, not just photographed.

[383hq]

Heard a tv presenter say the road toll was spiralling out of control.
Pure BS.
(and it's nothing to do with safer cars/roads is it...)
This is the problem, the argument can be used both ways.
lets ignore the fact the several states and countries around the world have stats showing safer travel at circa 130km/h.....

ABS shows the longer term picture


http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@....fatalities~189

Shorter term



https://bitre.gov.au/publications/on...summaries.aspx

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

and what do you do about it, take up arms? take to the streets en-masse?

I tell you what I do, I don't speed!

My late father didn't speed either.

Yet while on a road trip he was in Victoria, driving from Geelong to Melbourne sitting on 100km/h because he doesn't speed.
On returning home he opens the mail and lo and behold there's a fine in the mail. A speed camera caught him breaking the law doing a whole 103km/h.

My father had no need to lie to me...he was adamant he was doing 100. So I did a little investigating, using my GPS I took his Volvo out onto the highway sat it smack on 100 with cruise enabled and the GPS was showing 103.

If a $120,000 car can't read speed reliably where does that leave us?

Afterall this thread is about dropping tolerances to 3km/h is it not?

I drive in the NT on occasion, I find it's actually quite rare to see people sitting on the 130 limit, let alone pushing hard in the unlimited zones.

[rjk74]

My dad who's 78 has been picked up for speeding a few times in the last couple of years, he just writes a letter and the tinny old bugger gets off with a warning.

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

My late father didn't speed either.

Yet while on a road trip he was in Victoria, driving from Geelong to Melbourne sitting on 100km/h because he doesn't speed.
On returning home he opens the mail and lo and behold there's a fine in the mail. A speed camera caught him breaking the law doing a whole 103km/h.

My father had no need to lie to me...he was adamant he was doing 100. So I did a little investigating, using my GPS I took his Volvo out onto the highway sat it smack on 100 with cruise enabled and the GPS was showing 103.

If a $120,000 car can't read speed reliably where does that leave us?

Afterall this thread is about dropping tolerances to 3km/h is it not?

I drive in the NT on occasion, I find it's actually quite rare to see people sitting on the 130 limit, let alone pushing hard in the unlimited zones.

3 kmph over thats a joke. All that these alledged experts are doing is ****ing off the good people. What a rort

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by karlinperth

I'd like to throw this up for an idea, a little rant I squiggled up some time back http://photoweasel.diaryland.com/SpeedCamera.html - basically I am not arguing whether "speeding" is right or wrong, just that since the onus is on the police to prove guilt, photographed license plates don't really prove anything except the government is good at raising revenue. My gripe is there's no leeway in cameras and they do NOT stop a currently-speeding driver the way a police car can .. I think we'd all agree a driver may be a danger to others on the road needs to be stopped, not just photographed.

100% wont work. Registration plates are reflective. Paper print outs arent.