Aurion - New Pics, Models, Prices.

[Steffo]

And I disregard VW results from the USA. Why? The majority of them are built in South America (Mexico and Brazil) for the US Market. And that's only for the North American market. So the results aren't reflective of say, Australia, where we get them from Germany, Spain, South Africa etc.

You'll notice though that Porsche (the owner of the Volkswagen Auto Group), which are ALL German made, is at the top of the survey. If their VW's were German made, they'd be on the top too.

Oh and also, in regards to calling me biased and narrow minded... there's more to cars, and everything, then survey's and statistics. I'm basing my opinion on things I've seen happen in the real world. Although I'll gladly admit, in some cases I'm very biased. :Reverend:

[Poetic Justice]

It's more the fact that whilst you're against surveys and statistics, you're forcing your own opinions based on your own experiences down everybodies throat.

I revert to my comment about Toyota making it right for themselves rather than leaving themselves open to a flop. Unless you've experienced the new Camry and the new Aurion properly and extensively, I don't think you're in any right to make any comments about the car being a piece of **** just because of your own experiences.

I am a Ford nut, but I like all cars that are good value and a good package, regardless of the badge. (Much like I don't care about brand name clothing, I'll wear what I think looks good), and I see an awesome car in the Aurion...

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by blackout

Unless you've experienced the new Camry and the new Aurion properly and extensively, I don't think you're in any right to make any comments about the car being a piece of **** just because of your own experiences.

So who's experiences should one comment on then, other people's? :yeees:

I've experienced a 2005 Camry and 2003 Avalon and I can't see the 06 replacements for each being much better.

The latter two cars were detatched, boring, slow to respond (I've never before used an accelerator pedal that has like 2 cm of movement that does nothing), felt cheap, looked cheap, steering completley void of feel, the body panels felt hollow and thin etc. I'd never put 30-40k odd towards one of these things.

[Poetic Justice]

That's where you're wrong, and potentially that issue is hurting Toyota as we speak.

If you think that the 05 Camry is anything the same as the 06 Camry, you're dead wrong and need to go show yourself.

I'm not saying you'll go out and be wooed by the fact it has power and is up there with cars like an XR8, but you have to appreciate the differences between the current model and its now predecessor. You also have to test a car like the 4cyl Camry with the obvious knowledge that it is just that, a 4 cylinder. It's not going to be a powerhouse and no one has ever said it is one. With that, you cannot expect it to drive or feel powerful like a Falcon or even Aurion. You need to directly compare it with its predecessor to understand the changes that Toyota have implemented with this years releases.

The Avalon, don't get me started, I have already said in this thread that the Avalon was a disastrous car, but if you think the Aurion is anything like that car you're in for a rude shock indeed, the amount of changes is phenominal(sp), from every single aspect of the car. Power, interior, styling, safety, suspension for sports models, standard options like the 6 spd auto, VSC and TRC, and the list of options for each model in the 5 car line up.

Also, the Aurion see's Toyota Australia for the first time offer an 18 inch alloy as an option.

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by merlin

Dave no point showing some people the true figures, they will still argue black and blue that "all car makers have problems yadda yadda yadda"....

Ha ha ha imagine what people would be saying about those results if this was a KIA forum "Look, all car makers have a problems, its just that they counted more Kia's on purpose because they are jelous of our brand image"

KIA, 509!!!! Thats over 1/2 of all Kias Sold

.

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by Steffo

(I've never before used an accelerator pedal that has like 2 cm of movement that does nothing).

Dont you drive a Fiesta, from the one i drove this seems to be fairly accurate

Oh dear, where did i leave my friggin my flame-suit :

[Bossxr8]

I loved Tom Gormans quite in the cars guide. "Its nothing but a V6 Camry".

[feebs]

No doubt Toytoa was the leader in build quality in high production manafacturers in the early nineties, they even had decent looking cars back then!

NOW, not so much of a leader, especially in the looks dept. (Free with every sportivo is a dark window tint so no one can see you!)

Ford was hurt by the AU,.. the EL EF was an excellent car and was sold in large numbers, even against the VT for a while.

The build quality of the AU was good, better than the BA IMO, but there were
other factors stopping then from selling. (Looked like a big turtle), and to think only minor body changes (ba) would have made a HUGE difference.

I personally think Ford then had to skimp a bit on the BA interior and some build aspects as they could not possibly have had enough money to do it any better, so we have a nice looking car with a good engine with a crappy interior.

It is a pity the way it worked out for Ford, I've allways had a falcon as I still think they are the best value for money 6 for doing high k's.

Definately there should be an apology from the design team for early AU.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Steffo

And I disregard VW results from the USA. Why? The majority of them are built in South America (Mexico and Brazil) for the US Market. And that's only for the North American market. So the results aren't reflective of say, Australia, where we get them from Germany, Spain, South Africa etc.

Come on mate, that's no excuse for the results of VW in this circumstance. So what your now saying is that it's okay that VW has differing standards of build quality depending on where the car is built. Letting the truth slide for your own baises a little bit too much arent we.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Come on mate, that's no excuse for the results of VW in this circumstance. So what your now saying is that it's okay that VW has differing standards of build quality depending on where the car is built. Letting the truth slide for your own baises a little bit too much arent we.

They're not the only ones who do it. Toyota themselves does. Compare a Japanese built to an Australian built model and you'll see that its true. Or one of their US built models to a Japanese built one.

Every manufacturer slips standards when they build plants in cheaper places in the name of cost effectiveness, and this can't be denied.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

Dont you drive a Fiesta, from the one i drove this seems to be fairly accurate

Oh dear, where did i leave my friggin my flame-suit :

Funny, but I wasn't talking about them being slow to accelerate, they accelerate like you'd expect a V6 family sedan to. Its that the first 2 cm of pedal travel is doughy and actually doesn't do anything, even at carpark speeds. Fiesta's does... its alot quicker to respond. Obviously not acceleration wise, its only 3x smaller with 2 less cylinders and half the power...

[Jayden]

why is toyota getting so much awards here? yeah they did it right but its about time and absolutely no new ground whatsoever has been achieved by it, they are simply being more competitive against ford holden mitsubishi and whatever else V6 sedan out there and they did that by following a standard of what is expected. And its all for nothing, holden lovers are still going to buy holdens and ford lovers are still going to buy fords I reckon. If not, I cant really put my finger on why, It doesnt look BETTER at all.

my opinion only.

I still think it will sell well as its a toyota, and they sacrifice virgins to the aztec gods or something to increase their sales . :P
jk

[Poetic Justice]

I have just driven the Aurion for the first time, and I must say even though it was the base model that it was awesome! 200kw of power on tap, only a smidge of torque steer when you really get up to, nice handling, good braking, very smooth suspension.....


You just really have to drive this car to base your own opinion, I can't wait to drive one of the Sportivo's...

[niko]

looks nice

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by blackout

I have just driven the Aurion for the first time, and I must say even though it was the base model that it was awesome! 200kw of power on tap, only a smidge of torque steer when you really get up to, nice handling, good braking, very smooth suspension.....


You just really have to drive this car to base your own opinion, I can't wait to drive one of the Sportivo's...

Interesting, but whats the sportivo got the the rest dont? Lower? Is it the same engine (like the 380 and there GT)?

All ive got to say is that after driving a Mondeo ST220, my thoughts about driving good powerful FWD cars has changed. Ultimately not quite as enjoyable as a RWD, but for 95% of the time its fine.

[Poetic Justice]

Sportivo has sports tuned suspension as in the Camry, and the difference between a Camry Altise and a Camry Sportivo in the suspension game is big time - I suspect it will be the same with the Aurion but I wont see a Sportivo here for another month yet.

[Poetic Justice]

Well just got back out from a training / testing session for the Aurion and I have very mixed emotions which are all quite suprising.

There was 3 different tests that showed the Aurion in its different variants stacking up against BF Falcon, VE Commodore and a 380 (not sure what variant, think it was ES).

First test was just to get out and have a first initial drive of the Aurion to experience. I drove a Presara (top of the line) and a Sportivo ZR6 (top sports) and was very impressed. The car is quick (all models share same engine) and had no torque steer or traction issues in a slightly damp surface. The suspension setup in the Sportivo is awesome, handles very well and does what you want it to do. As it was a little damp on the track it was easy to get it to understeer under load through say the chicanes, but that has to be expected of any front wheel drive car - and to be honest, whilst driving the two RWD cars they proved to oversteer, so either way the understeer/oversteer is an issue of safety, regardless if you're happy with a car getting tail happy etc.

In this test I also took a drive of the 380, the Falcon and Commodore Omega - which I rate them in that order. You're probably thinking that I'm crazy for rating it that way but in the defence of the Falcon only, it seemed to be an older car and had done around 25,000kms so it wasn't brand new like the other 3. The 380 felt punchy and got off the line nice and quickly, it's handling wasn't smick but it was a base model not a sports model so I could understand. I disliked the interior of it, and it's quite obviously pretty bland on the outside.

The Falcon was a bit aged as I said, but like the Commodore and unlike the 380 and Aurion it felt very heavy. Over steer was pretty easy putting it into a corner under load (of course, it's rwd) but even getting it up to speed before the chicane was an effort, and by the time I had to slow down it was only doing around 125kms as opposed to the 145kms I topped the Aurion at. Handling was average as it as only an XT.

The Commodore was as bad if not worse than the Falcon, felt heavy, had those ugly as sin green lights, the silliest handbrake I have ever seen and felt very sluggish for some reason. It handled ok, didn't want to get as tail happy as the Falcon as it has stability control, and peaked at around the same 125kms as the Falcon... I only did one lap of it as I didn't like the car at all.

The second test of the day involved sending the Aurion versus Falcon and Commodore down a 300m sprint (just short of a quarter mile obviously). Both the Falcon and Commodore got the jump on the Aurion but the Aurion quickly reeled both cars in and in both times I was in the vehicle it was 1-2 car lengths in front by the time it was passing the 300m line. The Falcon seemed quicker, but just couldn't match what the Aurion was doing. I was impressed, when I went to Heathcote just last weekend for my first experience in drag racing my EL V8 ran a 15.8 (pretty **** poor) at 143kms or something crossing 400m. The Aurion was doing 143km as it went past 300m... a couple of the Toyota reps claimed the Aurion can run a mid 14 second pass, but I'll believe that when I see it done, but I'm not that skeptical.

Third test was to show the stability control of the Aurion, versus a car which didn't have it - the Falcon. Two professional drivers took this one and I sat as a passenger - the test involved going through a number of witches hats, and then a relatively high speed corner to demonstrate the ability. In the Aurion it went through the witches hats quite easily, the model was the Presara so it didn't have the sports tuned suspension that the Sportivo did. The VSC beeps as it is used, and Im pretty sure it didn't beep once through the hats. On the highspeed corner the car kept in very calmly, and the driver also demonstrated the instance of something like a kangaroo jumping in front of you which involved wrenching the steering wheel and trying to keep control without using the brake. Very impressive.....

The Falcon on the other hand had a better time fish tailing and get it sideways than keeping it straight... which was interesting.

I'm not trying to bag the Falcon, but just demonstrating that the Aurion is not the caridgan toting old mans car some of you may think it is.

[blutura]

Thanks for that good, well rounded, honest review blackout. Sound's like Toyota has got its act together with the Aurion.

Originally Posted by blackout

There was 3 different tests that showed the Aurion in its different variants stacking up against BF Falcon, VE Commodore and a 380 (not sure what variant, think it was ES).

In this test I also took a drive of the 380, the Falcon and Commodore Omega - which I rate them in that order. You're probably thinking that I'm crazy for rating it that way but in the defence of the Falcon only, it seemed to be an older car and had done around 25,000kms so it wasn't brand new like the other 3. The 380 felt punchy and got off the line nice and quickly, it's handling wasn't smick but it was a base model not a sports model so I could understand. I disliked the interior of it, and it's quite obviously pretty bland on the outside.

Hmm same sort of training there was for the BFII launch, except Ford had 2 VE Omegas with both having less than 500km. So I guess a rental with 25000km will feel less appealing.

Originally Posted by blackout

The second test of the day involved sending the Aurion versus Falcon and Commodore down a 300m sprint (just short of a quarter mile obviously). Both the Falcon and Commodore got the jump on the Aurion but the Aurion quickly reeled both cars in and in both times I was in the vehicle it was 1-2 car lengths in front by the time it was passing the 300m line. The Falcon seemed quicker, but just couldn't match what the Aurion was doing. I was impressed, when I went to Heathcote just last weekend for my first experience in drag racing my EL V8 ran a 15.8 (pretty **** poor) at 143kms or something crossing 400m. The Aurion was doing 143km as it went past 300m... a couple of the Toyota reps claimed the Aurion can run a mid 14 second pass, but I'll believe that when I see it done, but I'm not that skeptical.

Once again brilliant training technique. What Toyota will not focus on is the fact that most driving is done doing a) Legal speed limits and b) Only short bursts of acceleration. What I am saying is that for the Falcon to get the jump, with a 4 speed auto, means the Aurion with a 6spd auto is quite sluggish of the line. Remember the 4spd has a very t-a-l-l first gear.\
It will be interesting to compare what private buyers actually buy i.e 6sp XR6 and the Sportivo.

And I doubt a Aurion could do 14.5 down the quarter, but I guess if it can be done, someone will acheive it.

Originally Posted by blackout

Third test was to show the stability control of the Aurion, versus a car which didn't have it - the Falcon. Two professional drivers took this one and I sat as a passenger - the test involved going through a number of witches hats, and then a relatively high speed corner to demonstrate the ability. In the Aurion it went through the witches hats quite easily, the model was the Presara so it didn't have the sports tuned suspension that the Sportivo did. The VSC beeps as it is used, and Im pretty sure it didn't beep once through the hats. On the highspeed corner the car kept in very calmly, and the driver also demonstrated the instance of something like a kangaroo jumping in front of you which involved wrenching the steering wheel and trying to keep control without using the brake. Very impressive.....

Unfortunately this is one area where a base Falcon has a dissadvantage, which obviously will be addressed. But once again I will say that the private buyer does and will not buy base models of either cars.

Originally Posted by blackout

The Falcon on the other hand had a better time fish tailing and get it sideways than keeping it straight... which was interesting.

I'm not trying to bag the Falcon, but just demonstrating that the Aurion is not the caridgan toting old mans car some of you may think it
is.

Like the Avalon it replaced, the new Avalon... oops I mean Aurion will still be considered to be the cardigan wearers means of transport.

Oh, also the 9.9l/100km claimed is when premium unleaded is used.

[Bossxr8]

Wheels magazine tests have the Falcon faster than the Aurion but the Aurion is quicker than the Omega. Same old verdict though, drives well but doesn't have the same dynamic polish that the big 2 do.