New HSV E- Series have been released to the Public. - Page 4

fiery · 22-08-2006, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

Looks aren't everything.

Maybe not but they do count for at least 50% of the reason to buy a car (for me the other is 49% colour and 1% anything and everything else - including the people trying to convince me I am wrong)

:

If you really hated the looks of a vehicle, would you honestly consider buying it for power alone?? Surely not...

I am so shocked that someone could even possibly consider saying looks aren't everything where a car is concerned....

:

WASP · 22-08-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

will FPV produce something that'll knock my socks off?.

Yes but you will have to wait for it. If you can't I'm sure you'll manage with an HSV for a short while

:

Steve · 22-08-2006, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDAA

Yes but you will have to wait for it. If you can't I'm sure you'll manage with an HSV for a short while

:

I'm counting on enough info being out in the open re the Orion to convince me to hang on.

jimt3te50 · 22-08-2006, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

Maybe not but they do count for at least 50% of the reason to buy a car (for me the other is 49% colour and 1% anything and everything else - including the people trying to convince me I am wrong)

:

If you really hated the looks of a vehicle, would you honestly consider buying it for power alone?? Surely not...

I am so shocked that someone could even possibly consider saying looks aren't everything where a car is concerned....

:

We are talking a PERFORMANCE car. Power is not everything, looks are not everything, cost is not everything. It would be foolish to think that power alone determines a performance vehicle, particularly considering the world is not one flat wide road with no traffic lights, turns, hills or obstacles.

How you could be so shocked that I would say that would imply that you believe they are? As I said earlier- if I honestly didn't believe that, I would not be driving an AU.

I don't think I would be ashamed to be driving a new E-series Clubsport R8 if it was the latest offering from Ford, would you?

I think you may be out of percentages in your car worthiness-rating system because you have devoted 99% of your decision to the cosmetics of the car. So are you saying that performance and features play no part in your decision? Come on, we know that's not true. Admit it, looks aren't everything.

Not so shocking really is it?

jimt3te50 · 22-08-2006, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Is the new HSV enough to temp you?

I would slap myself stupid if I hadn't at least considered what else was available for $70k.........

Lifes long enough to make a few mistakes along the way- had 6 Fords and 0 Holdens- only ever driven an STi and a Clubsport R8 when I thought about the T3. But only to gauge how good it was- never had ANY intention of buying anything else.

And to answer the question it would tempt me, but that's it, curiosity and nothing more- whatever I get will not replace the T3 either way (I'll keep that)

But if that was FPV releasing that, I would be giving them the same praises for listening to what buyers wanted, and delivering it.

fiery · 22-08-2006, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

I don't think I would be ashamed to be driving a new E-series Clubsport R8 if it was the latest offering from Ford, would you?

Absolutely not.. I did say I like the look (hate the fact they are calling it an E-Series though).

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

I think you may be out of percentages in your car worthiness-rating system because you have devoted 99% of your decision to the cosmetics of the car. So are you saying that performance and features play no part in your decision? Come on, we know that's not true. Admit it, looks aren't everything.

I can't admit something that is not true.. Power is nothing really to me, if it was, would I have kept my XR6 stock (not a thing has been done, besides maintaining her)... That should answer your own doubt if I would make a decision solely on looks. To me I count some of the features as the looks part though, but I don't care if it has what ever thingo's at the rear wheels. Really couldn't care less what it can or can't do down the quarter mile...If it is comfy, looks great, is the right colour then sweet, not a problem in the world...Those who really know me and have been putting up with the whole discussion about buying another car can vouch about if I like the way it looks as to if I will consider buying it. Maybe that doesn't appeal to everyone (you may think its crazy), but it certainly appeals to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

Not so shocking really is it?

I believe I have really answered that...

HSE2 · 22-08-2006, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Is the new HSV enough to temp you?

Yes and for several reasons. When Tickford entered into FTE I felt sure they would be the first to come up with a form of adaptive suspension and then when Prodrive entered the picture it re enforced that opinion 10 fold because it is one area Ford had it over Holden in spades. Suspension ideology.

As Time progressed it became clear that HSV would be moving in a direction that I wanted from my Ford products. Greater emphasis on torque and suspension options that reduce compromise and offer more under the one package. While FPV talked about increasing rear rubber contact HSV have actually done it. There is a feeling that these types of cars have to distance themselves from the donor product and head line leading technology that is meant to filter down as the year’s progress. HSV have made a decent attempt at doing this.

MRC has cost so much that perhaps there are other aspects that could have given greater worth to more.

The reason why they might not temp.

In the process of providing that separation they have embarked on a style that adds small "filler" sections with additional join lines. While I like the idea and the look I am concerned about the execution.

The senator grows on me as a package and appearance but with manual only it doesn't do it for me. I want to get back into a manual so the new ZF diff offers the first chance at a decent drive line.

That means I have to look at the GTS and MRC. I am not sure HSV have this one right. I think the average punter that has the ability to spend 80k will appreciate the comfort performance option more then the performance track option. If the track option is as hard as the DTS option then it’s the wrong way to go on a car that is really R8 in intention.

The performance is under a cloud for me. I have declined on STIs because of the fuel issue. I am suspicious when people don’t state exactly how much performance is lost when low octane is used. In fact HSV have left a few details out in the release. Where I live there is 98 Ron so I want to know exactly where these VE engines sit performance wise. And then there is the DIN question. Part of me makes me think this is a print error on the HSV release but if it is it’s a pretty comprehensive error. My biggest concern is that an engine that is specifically tuned to run 98 could in theory end up being worse then the LS2s that were tuned to run on 95 given the weight increase.

The VE look is acceptable for a Holden product. It’s not a look forward and in my eyes the FPV product looks better but concede might not age as well. For me it will be a question of if MRC delivers. I will go from there.

HSV haven’t delivered in the interior aspects I thought they would try to implement.
Overall slightly disappointed with some of the directions taken.

Ford_To_Holden · 22-08-2006, 07:43 AM

I moved from a Ford many years ago with a struggle.
I was in the market for a new ride the ef was fine but i had some money to spend. I watched the market and waited the vt came out and i waited. The au just tipped my blood i couldn't believe what have we done here. So i hung around to see if the feeling would change but it didn't.

So i ended up buying a vt series 2 calais supercharged v6 in 99. Which i did a good 23000 on the dial every year.
Time came around again for another new ride. I couldn't look at a ba in 03 but i drove one and was happy but the au really really dinted my passion. So i test drove a SV6 it was a more capable car then my calais and it wasn't a fright like the au which even today make me shiver. And i really like the t series.

I got in before the new model holden just encase the ve was a au. I don't think it is but the e series ?. I feel the twitches at this time looking at it.
Can't hide the fact it's got some serious gear but is that enough ?.

I have came to really like the ve. And it's a shame I'm not ready for a new car just yet.

In 08 I'll sit back and wait and pray there isn't a au and then i might have a real battle again thinking what car i will drive. But at this stage the ve has my vote but not the hsv yet.

Iphido · 22-08-2006, 07:46 AM

Guys the preformance figures are already out..

4.96 for a manual and 13.3 for the 1/4
5.05 for a auto and 13.12 for the 1/4...

At the end of the day it comes down to performance, and mostly magazine performance. (Lambo and ferrari owners don't usually do that many 1/4 miles either)..

HSV has a better car.. I think the VZ's might be quicker from a slow rolling start but there wouldn't be much in it. I have no doubt these would be much quicker around a track.

Until FPV can rival high 4's for 0-100 and knock on 12 for the quarter they are going to be outclassed in power. Which in a muscle car is most of the point.

Ford_To_Holden · 22-08-2006, 07:52 AM

Is there any chance they can achieve them times ?.

I have driven a vz clubsport they are good off the mark but wheel spin doesn't help the cause.

I'm sure th ve clubsport won't have these issues.

merlin · 22-08-2006, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iphido

Guys the preformance figures are already out..

4.96 for a manual and 13.3 for the 1/4
5.05 for a auto and 13.12 for the 1/4...

At the end of the day it comes down to performance, and mostly magazine performance. (Lambo and ferrari owners don't usually do that many 1/4 miles either)..

HSV has a better car.. I think the VZ's might be quicker from a slow rolling start but there wouldn't be much in it. I have no doubt these would be much quicker around a track.

Until FPV can rival high 4's for 0-100 and knock on 12 for the quarter they are going to be outclassed in power. Which in a muscle car is most of the point.

That's HSV times isn't it? This is not magazine tested time, have to wait till early September MOTOR for those.

I think there is actually more people on here who like the new HSV than on ls1.com.au - just read their whole thread and it is pretty negative.

Personally I think it is a better car than the VZ it replaces, but still wouldnt fork out close to $80K to buy one - hate the plastic additions and that grill is woeful, and why oh why will HSV not change their headlights to differentiate from Holden.

Ford_To_Holden · 22-08-2006, 08:27 AM

I think none of the the performance arms have used different head lights.

DABOSS · 22-08-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

I'm counting on enough info being out in the open re the Orion to convince me to hang on.

Well as luck would have it I've spoken with a certain person/s and as they have seen it they have advisted that the xr8 will have the 290 spec motor but the new GT is still a 4V 5.4 6 speed Auto with a different Camshaft profile will make around the 315kw mark as for styling they said it quite good and different. Late next year will be the release date. so stay tuned.

ADSXR8 · 22-08-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iphido

Guys the preformance figures are already out..

4.96 for a manual and 13.3 for the 1/4
5.05 for a auto and 13.12 for the 1/4...

At the end of the day it comes down to performance, and mostly magazine performance. (Lambo and ferrari owners don't usually do that many 1/4 miles either)..

HSV has a better car.. I think the VZ's might be quicker from a slow rolling start but there wouldn't be much in it. I have no doubt these would be much quicker around a track.

Until FPV can rival high 4's for 0-100 and knock on 12 for the quarter they are going to be outclassed in power. Which in a muscle car is most of the point.

Yes, these are HSV times.

Remember HSV quoted a GTO doing a 4.99 and 13.1. In the lastest Motor PCOTY that SAME car did a 6.4 and 14.22. I dont buy it, and looking forward to the written press comparisons.

I am with HSE2

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

The performance is under a cloud for me. I have declined on STIs because of the fuel issue. I am suspicious when people don’t state exactly how much performance is lost when low octane is used. In fact HSV have left a few details out in the release. Where I live there is 98 Ron so I want to know exactly where these VE engines sit performance wise. And then there is the DIN question. Part of me makes me think this is a print error on the HSV release but if it is it’s a pretty comprehensive error. My biggest concern is that an engine that is specifically tuned to run 98 could in theory end up being worse then the LS2s that were tuned to run on 95 given the weight increase.

Given the extra weight, I cannot see how the VE will be faster, particulary in manual trim. If the A6 performs as good as the Ford versions, auto times will improve, but nearlly same horsepower in a heavier car, its going to be hard to believe.

Wezza · 22-08-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_To_Holden

Is there any chance they can achieve them times ?.

I have driven a vz clubsport they are good off the mark but wheel spin doesn't help the cause.

I'm sure th ve clubsport won't have these issues.

I think there is every chance they can at least go VERY close to achieing these times. Just look at the times that MOTOR got in the SS in the wet. No one was expecting that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DABOSS

Well as luck would have it I've spoken with a certain person/s and as they have seen it they have advisted that the xr8 will have the 290 spec motor but the new GT is still a 4V 5.4 6 speed Auto with a different Camshaft profile will make around the 315kw mark as for styling they said it quite good and different. Late next year will be the release date. so stay tuned.

Late next year? Why would they bother with Orion just around the corner?? If they were going to up the power, wouldn't now be a better time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADSF6

Given the extra weight, I cannot see how the VE will be faster, particulary in manual trim. If the A6 performs as good as the Ford versions, auto times will improve, but nearlly same horsepower in a heavier car, its going to be hard to believe.

You know the torque has gone up a fair bit more than the kW, that will make a fair bit of difference. I guess we'll know soon enough anyways.

Bud Bud · 22-08-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Sorry to the VE fans here but GTS is a really bad name ever since Victa brought out the GTS; Guaranteed To Start mower.

Why is that a bad name or reference????

I would of thought it would be a good thing!

XRated · 22-08-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADSF6

Yes, these are HSV times.

Remember HSV quoted a GTO doing a 4.99 and 13.1. In the lastest Motor PCOTY that SAME car did a 6.4 and 14.22. I dont buy it, and looking forward to the written press comparisons.

And the press times got pretty woeful times in the F6 (I'm recalling mid-high 14s)... But we wouldn't take their word on that eh? We've seen them run very low 13s stock and high 12s with "just a filter change."

Just wait until they're on the strip with some real times. I have every confidence that these VE HSVs will be <13.6 easily. I also think the BA-BFs and VZs are capable of better times given better traction. And HSV decided to take note and fit some big rubber this time 'round.

It's about bragging rights and they've had it in the 8s for a long time. I hope Ford Oz is taking note.

CATFORD · 22-08-2006, 11:57 AM

Honestly.....who cares what power output they all have or dont have...307....290....270....who gives a toss....anyone who buys one of these cars buy them because they are ethier a HSV....FPV whatever.....if buyers want pure power they would buy an XR8/6 or S%^TBOX Holden equivalant...and work the **** out of ethier and achieve bigger horsepower for less money than ethier a HSV or FPV!!!

People buy these because they love them....not for what horsepower they put out...or how quick they go 0-100....!

Lastly Holden/HSV can keep there 0-100 in less than 5 secs....they still have the biggest BOGAN supporter base in the world....it just means us blue oval boys/girls.....just have to filter out the crap they speak!!!

This is for HOLDEN and HSV enjoy the VE :the_finge

ADSXR8 · 22-08-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRated

And the press times got pretty woeful times in the F6 (I'm recalling mid-high 14s)... But we wouldn't take their word on that eh? We've seen them run very low 13s stock and high 12s with "just a filter change."

The worst time I've seen published by a F6 was a 14.4 for BAmkII. I own a BF manual, and I can tell you, these badies are hard to nailed a great launch. In auto trim in the BF series, all recorded times have been high 13's.

The filter changed BF F6's, one has cracked a high 12, and I know of a member here in a manual BF (completely stock) run a 13.06 @ 106 at Willowbank (temp 17 degrees). I certainly is in the technique.

james22 · 22-08-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss 290

will say obe thing though...the amount of weight gained on thes new cars is no big deal coz they are still lighter then the fords.

Holdens are WAY heavier than falcons, that why they need all the extra grunt

:

HSE2 · 22-08-2006, 02:13 PM

I note in Adams quote of me I have a typo (one of many). It’s meant to read I don't have easy access to 98 Ron.

Fordoldie · 22-08-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Why is that a bad name or reference????

I would of thought it would be a good thing!

Mate, that is one of his more intelligent quotes, and it makes no sense whatsoever

BadMac · 22-08-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_taxi

As we know now, the power claims for the new HSV’s are 307kW @ 6000rpm and 550Nm @ 4400rpm. The interesting thing about these specs is that the LS2 V8 has actually not gained any power (for kW). The 297kW specification was done in ECE for the VZ. The power figures are now done in DIN like FPV do. So the DIN for the VZ HSV range was 305kW. So to HSV's specifications, the VE range has only gained 2kW. However, the power gain was done by using 98 RON PULP, they used 95 RON PULP for the HSV VZ power figures. So any benefits in performance will come down to how good the gearbox and drive train are in the new VE.

297Kw SAE is 301KW DIN. Not 305. Therefore the gain is 6KW. It maybe more as DIN may be a missprint and if in fact it is SAE (307SAE=311DIN).

HSE2 · 22-08-2006, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadMac

297Kw SAE is 301KW DIN. Not 305. Therefore the gain is 6KW. It maybe more as DIN may be a missprint and if in fact it is SAE (307SAE=311DIN).

Unfortunately that appears to be incorrect, either that or you have caught HSV in a lie. In fact the previous engine, the 285 unit made a similar power gain claim in DIN.

Just returned from the dealership with my mate who looks set to buy one of the first GTS in the state (6 time HSV owner) and we had the same discussion.

They went through the LS2 stuff and came to the conclusion HSV have quoted 305 and on 95 Ron. When I left they were debating on contacting HSV for clarification.

RavenLS1 · 22-08-2006, 03:23 PM

ugly...

**DJM83** · 22-08-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montyv8

they are...

AU's rock mate unlike ur old x series

DABOSS · 22-08-2006, 03:39 PM

Late next year? Why would they bother with Orion just around the corner?? If they were going to up the power, wouldn't now be a better time?

That is the Orion buds. :alien2:

HSE2 · 22-08-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DABOSS

Late next year? Why would they bother with Orion just around the corner?? If they were going to up the power, wouldn't now be a better time?

That is the Orion buds. :alien2:

After looking at the dealer order info for FPV MK2 it looks like there is no adjustment till Orion (if then) unless the anniversary actually means something to someone inside FPV.

The good news is there are red seats for a particular model

Quicklier · 22-08-2006, 03:45 PM

Actually... I think everyone has missed the best point about the new E-Series.

You won't be able to mock up an Executive... sorry, Omega as a Clubbie! No longer will we be subjected to Ecotec powered wannabee's. The rear end has distinct treatment which is great to differentiate the models (you are forking out the best half of a hundred grand).

They've not "improved" them in my eyes. The Omega isn't an ugly car, the Berlina is probably the best pick of the bunch from the VE stable in terms of price vs looks (HSV included).

JPFS1 · 22-08-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicklier

Actually... I think everyone has missed the best point about the new E-Series.

You won't be able to mock up an Executive... sorry, Omega as a Clubbie! No longer will we be subjected to Ecotec powered wannabee's. The rear end has distinct treatment which is great to differentiate the models (you are forking out the best half of a hundred grand).

They've not "improved" them in my eyes. The Omega isn't an ugly car, the Berlina is probably the best pick of the bunch from the VE stable in terms of price vs looks (HSV included).

I think the CalaisV is the nicest looking car, put some nice big wheels on it, and its very nice.

On the HSV's... i'm letting the look sink in.. but it's not working for me much at all. The differentiation is a great thing, but not at the expense of making it look terrible with lights that just don't belong. The plastic isnt working well as i think it's contrast against the panel work in a bad way, and the red interior on the GTS is terrible.

The best i've seen so far is the Clubsport in that grey color. A very nice color.