Victorian Road Toll - 2023 Worst year for road deaths since 2008

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its all a bit of a laugh, the newer legislation has harsher punishment than the older stuff. its usually knee-jerk political responses to an issue that grabbed media attention and got the public talking, hoon laws and their extension are a good recent example, or Victoria and its criminalisation of traffic offences, they hand out criminal records in VIC like lollies.

Things like family/domestic violence offences, drug dealing, assaults et al where there's no mandatory minimums and there's a lot of room for lawyers to work their magic, one of the cases that was up when I was going through was family violence offender who beat the snot out of his ex wife who had an AVO out against him, and he got less than all of us on various driving offences. He had a massive history of alcohol abuse and family violence, all his siblings had AVOs out on him, one of the things he did on this massive rampage was called up his brother then threatened to eat the family dog, gets into fights with police, beats the crap out of the ex missus

He had this young looking kid with curly red hair in a blue suit representing him and he had the magistrate wrapped around his finger, it was amazing.

If anyone is bored go sit in on your local magistrates court one day when they're sitting and just observe what happens, the public can sit in and watch.

We had 53 of us going through on the same day in a small regional court, and it was things like me and the hoons, family violence offenders, drug dealer, disputes between ex wife and new wife over school pickup nastiness and all sorts of things.

I wouldn't have minded working with local police and having to do the knock or attend fatal accidents/hospitals and that sort of thing, would probably have more of an effect on my attitude than just taking my licence off me for 13 months and spending about $4000 all up in fees/fines et al.

And even if there are "mandatory minimums" such as in one punch attacks, they're not enforced. Welcome to Dan's (or Dan's lackey's) lawless peepee-soaked heckhole. Drugs are defacto legalised, assault is essentially entirely decriminalised, and outright murder is called "manslaughter" because the poor wittle offenders somehow didn't realise that beating someone to a bloody pulp would kill them.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

image

I thought this was hilarious, they drive on the wrong side of the road and there's barely any roundabouts in the USA but hey here's your Victorian drivers licence, go for broke!

Yeah they just let me go in Vancouver with everything on the other side right after a 17 hour sleepless flight, Aus licence was enough, no one mentioned the 4 way stop signs...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Its getting attention because there is an unexplained spike.

Its not just now though its every year, and every 2 seconds on TV there's some deaths on the road and it gets huge news coverage.

Its always police are doing this operation,
Police urge motorists to take care on the road
Four people have died in an accident

There's been a spike in COVID deaths too, because prior to 2019 it didn't even exist

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Yep we have cars passing each other head on at 100kmh all over the country only separated by 1 meter or so and we all know how brainless and useless a lot of the population is, I'm amazed the road toll isn't higher.

Of all the near accidents I experienced this year none of them had anything to do with speed, they were all just idiots who can't drive properly and do stupid things.

Had my worst one this year was stuck behind a truck and a bloke following the truck who I could tell couldn't drive for crap. So I sat back a bit while he tailgated the truck and he missed a few good opportunities to overtake. We get to another straight bit of road and I could see someone was coming the other way and to my disbelief old mate just chucks his car onto the opposite side of the road to overtake then when he realised there was a poor lady coming the other way pulls back in but the poor lady just freaked out and threw her car off the road and got it fully crossed up and heading straight for me in my old ute. I had to go bush and still don't know how I didn't get hit. The poor old lady bounced off the cutting and nearly rolled it.

I felt so bad for her she was in total shock and probably won't be comfortable driving again. This nob jockey could have killed her, me and my wife. But hey I'm sure a few more speed cameras would have saved us all.......

The one event that brought home what has changed since covid was coming in on the Western Hwy from WA/SA at night, it was high beam slaughter, no one dipped, even after being flashed some didn't, everyone blinded each other - never seen anything like it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

And even if there are "mandatory minimums" such as in one punch attacks, they're not enforced. Welcome to Dan's (or Dan's lackey's) lawless peepee-soaked heckhole. Drugs are defacto legalised, assault is essentially entirely decriminalised, and outright murder is called "manslaughter" because the poor wittle offenders somehow didn't realise that beating someone to a bloody pulp would kill them.

They certainly enforced my mandatory minimum of cancelled licence for 12 months

The first magistrate was somewhat sympathetic towards me but explained that the law said she must take my licence for 12 months, the problem with mandatory minimums is that it takes away the ability for a magistrate or a judge to make a judgement call on something, thats where the lawyers work their magic on things like assaults and all that sort of stuff.

The second magistrate on getting licence back acted like I took a **** on his pillow the night before

Luck of the draw who you get, thats why its key to have legal representation who knows the magistrates and how they behave/what they particularly don't like.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They certainly enforced my mandatory minimum of cancelled licence for 12 months

The first magistrate was somewhat sympathetic towards me but explained that the law said she must take my licence for 12 months, the problem with mandatory minimums is that it takes away the ability for a magistrate or a judge to make a judgement call on something, thats where the lawyers work their magic on things like assaults and all that sort of stuff.

The second magistrate on getting licence back acted like I took a **** on his pillow the night before

Luck of the draw who you get, thats why its key to have legal representation who knows the magistrates and how they behave/what they particularly don't like.

Funny thing about magistrates. They like people who they can feel sorry for...such as wife beaters and drug dealers.

They don't like clean cut people with jobs, children they have custody of, and no face tattoos.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Yep we have cars passing each other head on at 100kmh all over the country only separated by 1 meter or so and we all know how brainless and useless a lot of the population is, I'm amazed the road toll isn't higher.

Of all the near accidents I experienced this year none of them had anything to do with speed, they were all just idiots who can't drive properly and do stupid things.

Had my worst one this year was stuck behind a truck and a bloke following the truck who I could tell couldn't drive for crap. So I sat back a bit while he tailgated the truck and he missed a few good opportunities to overtake. We get to another straight bit of road and I could see someone was coming the other way and to my disbelief old mate just chucks his car onto the opposite side of the road to overtake then when he realised there was a poor lady coming the other way pulls back in but the poor lady just freaked out and threw her car off the road and got it fully crossed up and heading straight for me in my old ute. I had to go bush and still don't know how I didn't get hit. The poor old lady bounced off the cutting and nearly rolled it.

I felt so bad for her she was in total shock and probably won't be comfortable driving again. This nob jockey could have killed her, me and my wife. But hey I'm sure a few more speed cameras would have saved us all.......

My favorite part is in that picture above, with the trees lining the highway.

There's two spots that have overtaking lanes, in about 30km worth of road, then theres another two spots where its broken lines that are safe spots to overtake where you've got good visibility of oncoming traffic.

They always put the speed cameras in the two safe spots to overtake, but not anywhere in the rest of the highway where its double lines/dangerous to overtake.

Oh and this is where the police had a speed trap set up when I got done, I was a bit too enthusiastic on an overtake:





Yeah, no ****, imagine the area with the overtaking lane with the wire rope barrier in the middle of it dividing both sides of the highway, that there's only two of in 70km worth of highway being the area people go over the speed limit overtaking?

We've had about 30 locals die on this stretch of highway, because of poor road user ettiquette and ****ty enforcement of speeding in the safe spots to overtake, so everyone runs the gauntlet and does the double lines overtake.



30 days impound - less enthusiasm in the overtakes these days

[Tonz]

are they all accidents, why does noone question some of these accidents may be suisidal driving.
We had one out of Whyalla few years ago.
Driver in question...."now Iam ****ed, tried to run my car into that truck and kill myself, instead I bounce off the truck and hit the car behind killing 2 people".

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Tonz

are they all accidents, why does noone question some of these accidents may be suisidal driving.
We had one out of Whyalla few years ago.
Driver in question...."now Iam ****ed, tried to run my car into that truck and kill myself, instead I bounce off the truck and hit the car behind killing 2 people".

Its probably an extremely hard thing to prove after someones died if there's no usual suicide shenanigans like making sure all your affairs are in order before making the call.

[Sprintey]

Yeah Tonz a fella at school did that, deliberately. Didn't really know him, he wasn't too approachable. He had troubles, my memory of their place is walking past and just hearing him in a screaming match with his old man

Just veered right, into a truck on the Brand somewhere north of Gingin.

It's so long ago now, quarter century, but I remember.

[Franco Cozzo]

‘It’s not working’: Former VicRoads boss calls for new safety plan as road deaths rise

A former VicRoads boss and top safety officer say Victoria has mismanaged road safety and needs a different strategy to reverse the growing number of people being killed and seriously injured.

David Anderson, the state road authority’s chief executive from 2001 to 2006, said the 30 per cent jump in fatalities so far this year was too large to ignore and realised his fear Victoria had taken the wrong approach to road safety.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...27-p5djr8.html

Yeah you don't say

This might be of interest in this thread:

Inquiry into the impact of road safety behaviours on vulnerable road users

The Committee will investigate how road safety behaviours have changed during and after the COVID-19 pandemic, and consider the impact these changes have had on vulnerable road users, such as pedestrians, cyclists, motorcycle riders, children 7 and under, older people and mobility device users.

https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/ge...iours/hearings

Road Safety Camera Commissioner Neville Taylor

I'm sure what this guy has to say is going to be worth a laugh.

If I could have the next slide, please. This is my final piece to call out relating to the integrity of the road safety camera system.

Whilst the majority of the respondents, 55%, said that they modify their behaviour after receiving a speeding infringement, only a third said they perceive the cameras to be fair.

The wave 3 survey revealed that only one in three respondents perceived enforcement of speed was fair, and only slightly more perceived they were accurate—37%.

What that gives us as a snapshot is six years of survey responses that have consistently revealed that the majority of Victorians believe that road safety cameras are just revenue raisers.

John MULLAHY: Thanks, Chair. And thank you, Commissioner, for your submission and also the presentation here this morning. Just at the end of it you were talking about the public perception basis of the wave 3 survey, and consistently each of those three surveys has had high respondents believing that the road safety camera infrastructure is there predominantly for revenue raising. With 1,223 respondents in this one, 795 of them thought it was for revenue-raising.

90% of his submission is bull**** filler saying nothing, like when the teacher says you have to write a 2000 word essay and you make something you could say in 200 words take up 2000 words to meet the word requirement.

Reminds me of when they have the CIA guy Mike Baker on the Joe Rogan podcast and he talks for 15 minutes and says absolutely nothing.

[Citroënbender]

Worth noting that one of the early Victorian fatalities for 2024 is allegedly the result of poor driving choices by someone who has no interest in following laws.

I say allegedly because it’s sub judice. But new laws will achieve zero results with this type of alleged offending.

[vbvbvb088]

Case in point. Other day on ring road leaving Melbourne. Vicious rain and massive flooding on grass verge and right half of adjacent lane. Me in left lane (headlights on shock horror) sitting on about 80. clown in empty ute towing large empty trailer goes past about 100ish. Hit a huge puddle and empty trailer rises and becomes pointing towards me (I saw him in side mirror and lifted off because it just didn't look safe). Massive caravan type fishtailing. Absolute miracle he / she held onto it.

Had it gone badly...straight across the verge into guardrail and then across all lanes. Possible roll over. Possible fatality?

My point being 0 adjustment for driving to conditions. I could have an accident this afternoon but have been driving since 89 and total repairs one VB commodore front bar due to slight rear end.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Not called The Gold Standard State for nuffink...

Not much for some of the other States to be smug about either.

While Victoria recorded a 22.3% increase, NSW wasn't far behind with an increase of 19.8% to 351 and a rate per 100k of population that increased from 3.588 in 2022 to 4.209 in 2023 although that's still below the National average of 4.730.

Queensland had a 6.7% decrease with 277 fatalities and a rate per 100k population of 5.074 - above the National average but below the 5.582 in 2022.

South Australia was the worst of the States with a 64.8% increase in fatalities to 117 and a rate of 6.319 per 100k population compared to only 3.898 in 2022. In fairness, the 2022 figure of 71 deaths was the lowest ever recorded and the 2021 rate was 5.492.

WA also improved with a 10.7% reduction to 157 deaths and the 5.454 rate per 100k is a drop on the 6.268 in 2022, albeit still above the National average.

Tasmania also improved with a 33.3% reduction to 34 deaths and the 5.936 rate per 100k is a drop on the 8.931 in 2022, albeit still above the National average and with 2022 being the worst year since 2009.

NT had the biggest improvement with a 38.3% reduction to 29 deaths and the 11.486 rate per 100k is a drop on the 18.783 in 2022, albeit almost three times the National average.

Figures for the ACT aren't available yet.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...27-p5djr8.html

Yeah you don't say

Bit of an early crow to say it hasn't worked. If we go back to the road toll per capita and per vehicles posted by Russ, it has shown that something has worked over a 2 decade period. There was a spike in 2016 and again in 2019, but overall trend is still down.

Worse thing they can do now is knee jerk reactions, like reducing streets to 30kmh and country roads to 80kmh....which is what is being talked about.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Bit of an early crow to say it hasn't worked. If we go back to the road toll per capita and per vehicles posted by Russ, it has shown that something has worked over a 2 decade period. There was a spike in 2016 and again in 2019, but overall trend is still down.

Worse thing they can do now is knee jerk reactions, like reducing streets to 30kmh and country roads to 80kmh....which is what is being talked about.

Id say in the past 20 years the changes in cars would be a significant contribution to reducing the road toll, rather than say speed cameras.

Look at the difference of crash performance of 1990s Falcons and Commodore vs VE/FG.





That's 10 years between those two cars.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Id say in the past 20 years the changes in cars would be a significant contribution to reducing the road toll, rather than say speed cameras.



Look at the difference of crash performance of 1990s Falcons and Commodore vs VE/FG.



image



image



That's 10 years between those two cars.

Lol the unsafe one is p plate approved but the safe one is p plate banned.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...27-p5djr8.html

Yeah you don't say

This might be of interest in this thread:



https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/ge...iours/hearings



I'm sure what this guy has to say is going to be worth a laugh.





90% of his submission is bull**** filler saying nothing, like when the teacher says you have to write a 2000 word essay and you make something you could say in 200 words take up 2000 words to meet the word requirement.

Reminds me of when they have the CIA guy Mike Baker on the Joe Rogan podcast and he talks for 15 minutes and says absolutely nothing.

Some recent controversy over a camera in Avondale Heights at the bottom of a hill:

https://x.com/9NewsMelb/status/1743531046228877557?s=20

Last financial year, $150M worth of fines the state government collected, its a nice addition to the kitty.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Some recent controversy over a camera in Avondale Heights at the bottom of a hill:

https://x.com/9NewsMelb/status/1743531046228877557?s=20

Last financial year, $150M worth of fines the state government collected, its a nice addition to the kitty.

This particular camera is the epitome of speed cameras!
Both my daughter and my Mrs done on that one.. Both “alleged” 67kph
And both are what I’d call your typical “driving Miss Daisys”… The Mrs infuriatingly so! (I continually get smacked for commenting “are we there yet” when she’s driving!)
Both beat the fine with old “magic letter” and both now aware it’s there so they’re on the brakes all the way down Canning St hill (both directions)
I’d love to test out how fast you’d register if you totally stopped at Canning St/Military Rd lights, select neutral and just let car roll down Canning St through that camera?.. Guarantee it’d be over 60 kph!
I was under the impression that cameras weren’t permitted on inclines?
Or does that only apply to mobile cams?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

This particular camera is the epitome of speed cameras!
Both my daughter and my Mrs done on that one.. Both “alleged” 67kph
And both are what I’d call your typical “driving Miss Daisys”… The Mrs infuriatingly so! (I continually get smacked for commenting “are we there yet” when she’s driving!)
Both beat the fine with old “magic letter” and both now aware it’s there so they’re on the brakes all the way down Canning St hill (both directions)
I’d love to test out how fast you’d register if you totally stopped at Canning St/Military Rd lights, select neutral and just let car roll down Canning St through that camera?.. Guarantee it’d be over 60 kph!
I was under the impression that cameras weren’t permitted on inclines?
Or does that only apply to mobile cams?

Sir, people are waking up to the fact these are in-fact revenue raising devices

I've seen mobile cameras on the Calder Freeway along the rise of Girvans Hill south bound I think it is, cheeky pricks trying to get people accelerating up the hill.

[Charliewool]

Seems the “hill rule” was in a previous lifetime!
https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-ru...l-in-victoria/

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

This particular camera is the epitome of speed cameras!
Both my daughter and my Mrs done on that one.. Both “alleged” 67kph
And both are what I’d call your typical “driving Miss Daisys”… The Mrs infuriatingly so! (I continually get smacked for commenting “are we there yet” when she’s driving!)
Both beat the fine with old “magic letter” and both now aware it’s there so they’re on the brakes all the way down Canning St hill (both directions)
I’d love to test out how fast you’d register if you totally stopped at Canning St/Military Rd lights, select neutral and just let car roll down Canning St through that camera?.. Guarantee it’d be over 60 kph!
I was under the impression that cameras weren’t permitted on inclines?
Or does that only apply to mobile cams?

Yarralumula drive, Wodonga is a well known downhill trap.

Wodonga-Beechworth rd at Leneva another, down, down through the bends into the valley's straight away and boom there they always are.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

image


Sir, people are waking up to the fact these are in-fact revenue raising devices

I've seen mobile cameras on the Calder Freeway along the rise of Girvans Hill south bound I think it is, cheeky pricks trying to get people accelerating up the hill.

I live in Maryborough and have family in Taylors Lakes hence I travel the Calder very often. The eleventy billion speed cameras on the far side of Sunbury are a hazard I reckon. That's where the drivers doing ten under the limit slam on the brakes and end up going 60 km/h.

As for the Milleara Rd camera mentioned above, my dad was one of the many caught...he's still sore about it.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

I live in Maryborough and have family in Taylors Lakes hence I travel the Calder very often. The eleventy billion speed cameras on the far side of Sunbury are a hazard I reckon. That's where the drivers doing ten under the limit slam on the brakes and end up going 60 km/h.

As for the Milleara Rd camera mentioned above, my dad was one of the many caught...he's still sore about it.

My mrs was really rattled about it for weeks after receiving the infringement!
She’s never lost a point in 50 yrs of driving, was furious and wanted to challenge it in court. After her (me!) writing obligatory “apology letter”, she checked the letterbox daily for the month or so it took for a response!
So, I spose you could say that it had the desired effect?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

My mrs was really rattled about it for weeks after receiving the infringement!
She’s never lost a point in 50 yrs of driving, was furious and wanted to challenge it in court. After her (me!) writing obligatory “apology letter”, she checked the letterbox daily for the month or so it took for a response!
So, I spose you could say that it had the desired effect?

Same but 13 years... real offences start at 45 and above over the limit and those ones don't carry points

[roKWiz]

same only 38 years and I was a courier once !
Never saw it on the Old Hume Hwy between Benalla and Wangaratta, 100km zone done for 102km but points don't worry me in Vic. NSW licence.

Law states if you spend more than 3 months per year in NSW you must have one there.

It was fun during the pandemic explaining the Vic plates and NSW licence.

Geeze we have some stupid laws in this country.

[Citroënbender]

I’d like to know how long it takes to verify the majority of detections.

Assuming it’s extremely quick, why can’t people opt in for an SMS alert of being detected, that informs in almost real time?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I’d like to know how long it takes to verify the majority of detections.

Assuming it’s extremely quick, why can’t people opt in for an SMS alert of being detected, that informs in almost real time?

Thank you, that another $600 for holding the phone.

In my case the phone doesn't work real well between country towns anyway.

[Charliewool]

And not a damn thing we can do about it!
They have the perfect arguments!…
If it’s low road toll.. “speed cameras (sorry, “road SAFETY cameras”) are the driving force behind the decreased toll and working”
If it’s high road toll… “we need to decrease speed limits and introduce more cameras”
Got us on toast..

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Some recent controversy over a camera in Avondale Heights at the bottom of a hill:

https://x.com/9NewsMelb/status/1743531046228877557?s=20

Last financial year, $150M worth of fines the state government collected, its a nice addition to the kitty.

Hey, someone got to pay for Victoria's spiraling debt.