NBN Pricing

[Bucknaked]

Theres people who will benefit from this more than others. But I think the solution is a simple one. If you think theres a benefit to upgrading, then you will. For those who don't think theres any benefit to them, and doesn't warrant the cost or the hassle will stay with what they currently use.

I am reasonably happy with my Naked DSL, (but that's slowly changing) it won't stop me from doing some research, looking into it and maybe upgrade.

But I won't do anything until I know all the facts and see whether it's worth the move. We all want greater speed. I remember the old gaming days on a 56k modem. Laggy as hell, but we lived with it. Eventually when the technology was available, we upgraded and haven't looked back. I imagine NBN will be the same kind of deal. Moving forward with technology. Shouldn't be limited to televisions.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by cheap

There are many ways to deliver services and there are many ways to deliver broadband technology, NBN prescribes a solution and then has mandates applied to support their solution. My feeling is NBN is just another big ugly monopoly which will struggle to deliver to the promised expectations yet charge every increasing prices. To support the NBN monstrosity, competition will have to be appropriately managed. Those of us old enough have seen this behaviour before and it is simply unsustainable.

I will be surprised if NBN is still in business by 2017, by then it will have consumed vast billions ****ed up against the NBN wall and we will be left wondering where its all gone.

Reasonable points on delivery. There are other ways. I'm going to discount wireless though. I travel a lot in my job and rarely do I find 3G wireless consistently acceptable. It's also pretty well accepted that 3G will not meet future requirements due to spectrum limitations.

For fixed line there are other options which will give reasonable performance for urban centres. The problems with copper is that it is ageing and it's owned by an aggressive private company, which is worse than a govt monopoly. And forget the numbers people throw out about DSL, most people are on pretty poor lines with slower sync speeds.

Under government ownership the govt will mandate pricing for access. There will be no duplication of infrastructure by multiple companies which will improve costs.

I'm a pretty big fan of the NBN it's probably the only thing this govt is doing that I hope continues after they leave office, next election....

[Jim Goose]

Glad to read so many well thought replies on here!
and i even agree with Flappist...gees

The NBN is one of those projects which (like one northern pollie once said about the "Copperstring" project) is not a vote winner, but a good idea none the less.

http://www.copperstring.com.au/

These sorts of infrastructure projects are needed now to cater for the future.
It will be more or less transparent and people wont even know its being used.
Yes id love to see money spent on new highways etc.. but thats another story

[snappy]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

You do realise that there is a battery backup system at the telephone exchanges to keep the copper network running in the case of a power outage? Once the batteries run flat (and generator stops should it have one) then the copper network fails as well.
Part of the NBN install is to install a battery pack in your house to keep the phone running in the case of a blackout.
Failing that, who doesn't have a mobile phone these days?

The battery backup is shown in this blog post from the first SA customer: http://www.raajmenon.com/2011/06/the...-depth-review/

cool didnt know that

[landau460]

I'm all for technology as much as i might sound like i'm not.
I have three problems at the moment with this NBN!

1 Being in debt is one thing putting us more into debt to such a degree is not the greatest thing.

2 On past performances of late the current government gives no reason why this will be done properly.

3 The way the global economy is, it is not healthy.

I'm like a lot of other people at the moment holding onto my money and not looking to spend, well only on essentials. I have enough debt to know not to spend more and get snowed under.
When im back on top that rainy day will come, i'll spend

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by cheap

There are many ways to deliver services and there are many ways to deliver broadband technology, NBN prescribes a solution and then has mandates applied to support their solution. My feeling is NBN is just another big ugly monopoly which will struggle to deliver to the promised expectations yet charge every increasing prices. To support the NBN monstrosity, competition will have to be appropriately managed. Those of us old enough have seen this behaviour before and it is simply unsustainable.

I will be surprised if NBN is still in business by 2017, by then it will have consumed vast billions ****ed up against the NBN wall and we will be left wondering where its all gone.

The thing is, the NBN will be a wholesale monopoly, yes, but it will move away from the current situation where the monopoly is both wholesale and retail. It is mandated that NBN will not sell retail services.
As for the delivery of broadband, until some smart physicist comes up with a way to make something travel faster than light down a fibre optical cable, there will be no better technology. Fibre will only get better and only requires the upgrade of equipment at each end of the fibre cable, not the actual cable itself.
You didn't happen to hear Alan Jones harping on about how the NBN has already been superseded by laser technology? He was wrong in that it is the same technology as fibre optic cable is nothing more than a laser traversing a glass tube. The advances in that technology is to do with what's at either end of the fibre.
The deficiencies of wireless have already been pointed out in this thread.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

You didn't happen to hear Alan Jones harping on about how the NBN has already been superseded by laser technology? He was wrong in that it is the same technology as fibre optic cable....

Alan Jones is great for humour value. Great at stirring controversy and pushing the right's cause. Amazing that an old queen is the right's propaganda spewing darling lovechild, it is irony at its best... I download the Podcasts and laugh my head off at Jones, hilarious stuff :-)

If you wrote what he gets up to in a book, it would be laughed at by publishers and seen as too ridiculous to be even seen as believable in fiction :

[flappist]

Originally Posted by landau460

I'm all for technology as much as i might sound like i'm not.
I have three problems at the moment with this NBN!

1 Being in debt is one thing putting us more into debt to such a degree is not the greatest thing.

2 On past performances of late the current government gives no reason why this will be done properly.

3 The way the global economy is, it is not healthy.

I'm like a lot of other people at the moment holding onto my money and not looking to spend, well only on essentials. I have enough debt to know not to spend more and get snowed under.
When im back on top that rainy day will come, i'll spend

Unfortunately short sightedness like this is a major factor into why we are in such a mess in the first place.

We would not have an energy problem if power stations (hydo and thermal) had been built before they were needed.

Several multi lane freeways between the corners of this country would have reduced the road toll and lowered costs generally.

Ripping up the tram systems in Sydney and Brisbane was pure stupidity as was decommissioning regional rail.

NBN is really the first "whole of country" infrastructure investment in far too long and even if you think the incumbents will stuff it up they will be long gone before the NBN is even close to being finished.

I have always believed that Australia needs a "land army" into which unemployed are conscripted and used to build roads, clean up after disasters etc. learning skills (other than another TAFE course in advanced left handed wombat maintenance) that they can use later in the commercial work force.

Too many here are takers and not givers.......

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by landau460

I'm all for technology as much as i might sound like i'm not.
I have three problems at the moment with this NBN!

1 Being in debt is one thing putting us more into debt to such a degree is not the greatest thing.

2 On past performances of late the current government gives no reason why this will be done properly.

3 The way the global economy is, it is not healthy.

I'm like a lot of other people at the moment holding onto my money and not looking to spend, well only on essentials. I have enough debt to know not to spend more and get snowed under.
When im back on top that rainy day will come, i'll spend

So the previous party in power never had any government dept. which blew money hand over fist into the hundreds of millions?

What people forget is that public servants remain the same no matter who is in power. Its always oh so easy to point the finger at the government, when its usually the contractor who rips off the public because its easy money from a government dept. and they know that legal action wont be forthcoming....

[Danny]

Originally Posted by mr smith

All I see is the ability to down load movies and music quicker. big deal, and what if people side step it and go wireless?
Please enlighten us with the real benefits.

Ever had to do a uni subject online, because you are too far away from your university? An online class where a teacher 2000k away teaches you how to do something, or give you feedback on a work requirement?

Ever had to speak to a dying loved one on skype who perhaps took a turn for the worst before you can jump on a plane/train to get to them in time?

You idiot.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by Danny

Ever had to do a uni subject online, because you are too far away from your university? An online class where a teacher 2000k away teaches you how to do something, or give you feedback on a work requirement?

Ever had to speak to a dying loved one on skype who perhaps took a turn for the worst before you can jump on a plane/train to get to them in time?

You idiot.

Why call names for. Honestly one of the artforms of the lowest common denominators of society. We can already skype, we can already do a uni course online, we can already get feedback, this technology allows us to do it faster and more efficiently. I'm all for this provided it is value for money and done properly. This is a massive project with plenty of scope for waste and mismanagment. Does this include any investment for wireless technology for remote areas? I'm assuming they won't be running fibre to the middle of the desert...

[gtfpv]

if we only had a window in which we could see where all politicians from all parties were investing their own money . regardless of what they say on air LOL .

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Danny

Ever had to do a uni subject online, because you are too far away from your university? An online class where a teacher 2000k away teaches you how to do something, or give you feedback on a work requirement?

Ever had to speak to a dying loved one on skype who perhaps took a turn for the worst before you can jump on a plane/train to get to them in time?

You idiot.

Hmm thats a pretty loaded post.

1. Yes, off campus is not a problem depending on what course you are doing. Feedback issues are usually related to slack staff not the speed of the connection. We regularly used skype or conference type systems. Sure it could get choppy from time to time but it works fine 95% of the time.

2. While its nice we have the tech to talk to people anywhere, anytime, we seemed to have coped for many years previous to this. People pass away, and theres not much you can do other than enjoy their company before they do.

Just like the carbon tax saving the kids, bringing emotion into a debate results in nothing but name throwing.

[Professor Farnsworth]

i'm currently on a 100Mbps cable line and i can say that it makes the ADSL i used to be on, syncing at 20Mbps look like shouting binary into a yoghurt cup-and-string phone. Unfortunately the current 100 meg cable offerings are limited in uploads to about 2.4Mbps which is fine for most users but on my line i have an intermittent upstream noise problem which is souring the experience, but it's being worked on.

Being in a house with several people and having nearly 10 devices connected, it is fantastic for that reason alone. I can download/stream at 10 megabytes a second and still leave about another 4.5MB/s for the other users to do whatever they like.

The NBN will have up to 40meg uploads as well so it should be an absolute weapon when it comes to effective, less error-prone communications around the country. Far less chance of interfering with one anothers' activities when sharing a house with several other net users too.

[Polyal]

Yeah no doubt its a powerful tool. Its just that $$ figure, its horrendous when there are other sectors that struggle for funding, whether it be health etc, thats what I find hard to swallow.

There are some really basic systems in our society that are just pure rubbish. Public transport for example, rising fuel costs, pollution nazi's etc pushing agendas and now a carbon tax.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Why call names for.

Metrosexuals. Highly strung individuals.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Metrosexuals. Highly strung individuals.

I'm fresh out of Aftershave and green tea..

What the HELL do you expect from me?

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

i'm currently on a 100Mbps cable line and i can say that it makes the ADSL i used to be on, syncing at 20Mbps look like shouting binary into a yoghurt cup-and-string phone. Unfortunately the current 100 meg cable offerings are limited in uploads to about 2.4Mbps which is fine for most users but on my line i have an intermittent upstream noise problem which is souring the experience, but it's being worked on.

Being in a house with several people and having nearly 10 devices connected, it is fantastic for that reason alone. I can download/stream at 10 megabytes a second and still leave about another 4.5MB/s for the other users to do whatever they like.

The NBN will have up to 40meg uploads as well so it should be an absolute weapon when it comes to effective, less error-prone communications around the country. Far less chance of interfering with one anothers' activities when sharing a house with several other net users too.

I'm waiting for ADSL2 to be connected to my new house, and currently using a tethered iphone to provide internet access. I'm on a whopping 1mbps and it can fulfil 99% of my requirements. I would use the iphone to do downloads too except it is only a 2Gb plan. If you don't mind me asking, what are you and your household doing to consume so much of the 100mbps capacity?

[Tuddy200]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yeah no doubt its a powerful tool. Its just that $$ figure, its horrendous when there are other sectors that struggle for funding, whether it be health etc, thats what I find hard to swallow.

There are some really basic systems in our society that are just pure rubbish. Public transport for example, rising fuel costs, pollution nazi's etc pushing agendas and now a carbon tax.

That's the thing people are failing to understand here.

NBN is not an "internet", it's a backbone used to carry many things in one package. Phone, Internet, TV, Emergency Announcements, Rural Video Conferencing with Doctors which is only on the surface.

Meaning, it's an infrastructure that is going to be able to be used to the advantaged of all those sectors you are talking about.

[Dusty1]

NBN won't really benefit the consumer. Business will benefit, as the consumer can now get email, you/red tube as fast as they want it.

It won't be until people in the regions start seeing the benefit with better acess to education, IPTV, telephony,medicine that the benefit will be noticed.

Us in the city won't notice much difference. Those in regional and rural Australia will. The market has so far dictated that telcos see no benefit in wiring up these places.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Dusty1

NBN won't really benefit the consumer. Business will benefit, as the consumer can now get email, you/red tube as fast as they want it.

It won't be until people in the regions start seeing the benefit with better acess to education, IPTV, telephony,medicine that the benefit will be noticed.

Us in the city won't notice much difference. Those in regional and rural Australia will. The market has so far dictated that telcos see no benefit in wiring up these places.

agreed, $40bill not a problem for me.
i'm a tax payer and we need this... too many benefits, SFA against.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Danny

Ever had to do a uni subject online, because you are too far away from your university? An online class where a teacher 2000k away teaches you how to do something, or give you feedback on a work requirement?

Ever had to speak to a dying loved one on skype who perhaps took a turn for the worst before you can jump on a plane/train to get to them in time?

You idiot.

I currently do uni online (my uni is in WA, I'm in Qld)...my internet connection costs me $80 a month, and the speed is fine for what needs to be done - assignments are uploaded quickly, access to databases is easy...no problems at all...

I can see the benefit for far reaching communities - and the question 'why not have it?' is a valid one. I do, however, question the cost to implement such an initiative (just like all other Gov funded 'initiatives'...I question, what's really in it for them?). What's the catch?

[ILLaViTaR]

Not expensive but it's a sheer rip off. Why are ISP's profiting off technology that has been funded by the tax payers??? Fibre networks would mean less overall expense for them in the first place, here we are again victims of capitalism (their bent idea of capitalism that is). Just like Virgin blue footing the carbon tax to it's customers.

Businesses with more reward/capital than anyone taking yet more reward that's owed to the customers. It's our ******* tax dollars so why is it more expensive than ADSL? Yes they need new nodes and much more hardware but overall it's less expensive than ADSL to operate. Pigs.

And don't even get me started about download limits, amazing that they still existon fibre plans. What's the point of having all that speed with only a TB?
And to be realistic a 200GB/300GB are half the cost and all most could afford, I have that on my current ADSL plan and can use all of it with this measly speeds. fibre= pointless.

The ISP's have yet again destroyed an incredible technology with so much more potential.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I currently do uni online (my uni is in WA, I'm in Qld)...my internet connection costs me $80 a month, and the speed is fine for what needs to be done - assignments are uploaded quickly, access to databases is easy...no problems at all...

I can see the benefit for far reaching communities - and the question 'why not have it?' is a valid one. I do, however, question the cost to implement such an initiative


(just like all other Gov funded 'initiatives'...I question, what's really in it for them?). What's the catch?

my opinion of whats in it for them is . i dont think this govt does anything unless it is on a world basis , i think they do to get inline with the rest of the world , in the case of the NBN or internet in general , i've always been of the opinion that australia needs to catch up to be on a level playing field with the world . i even think the EVIL TAX is along the same agenda . something to do with the near future of the world , as in TRADE / AND TECHNOLOGY . and that is just a guess .
it's only my opinion . and i dont want carbob tax mentioned in this thread , because i aint pushing it . i was just trying to explain the catch that the govt may be doing this for , by saying , i dont think they are doing it for the good of the country , but probably can see a dollar in it around the globe , or need the NBN technology so they can be on a level business relationship or other agendas with the rest of the world .
thats my take anyways . ( not to please the people) but other reasons that benifit them

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by cheap

So what practical benefit will NBN provide over ADSL/2 @ 4-12mbps?

Perhaps:

Twitter will be improved?
or
Youtube videos will they stream better?
or
Facebook will be more fun?
or
Gaming?
or
Downloading is that the benefit?
or
Emails will these become more intelligent?
or
Banking, finance. goggle, ebay, fordforums?
or
Maybe you know of some critical business application that must have these "so called high speeds". I'd be interested in knowing which applications they are, I've been involved with implementing high definition medical images (X-Rays) from hospital to hospital, using high speed (10Gb dark fibre) bandwidth. Surprisingly, it isn't bandwidth that is the issue with these applications, yet that is exactly the type of justification being used for the NBN.

So don't be shy, what am I missing? Help me (and other knuckle-draggers) understand...can you do this without petty insults?

So you're basically saying it's better in everyway lol??? I think you are missing something.... It's like going from an XF to a FG

And the other major factor for justifying it is (what a lot of people fail to comprehend, including that religious cook Tony Abbott) is that fibre travels at the speed of light, even in 500yrs when internet is a million times faster these exact same cables will still be in use as they'll never become obsolete. It's been done correctly/planned for the future as opposed to greedy right wing baby boomers planning everything for themselves with no regard for anyone/the next generation.

The potential of data this network can handle is overwhelming, for example: Phones, tv channels, billing, banking, education/any form of data can be utilized through it, it already can but not on a national/global scale. This is a relaible static connection, like 1984 lol.

Saying all that the purpose is completely defeated because we still have "Tony Abbott's" trying to ******* capitalise off tax payer funded hardware therefore implementing data limits that restrict any form of progress this technology can offer.

So there you go a massive utopian worldwide network with uncapped potential for filesharing/socialising completely restricted yet again by right wing pigs.

You can't beat them, they're always going to destroy evolution/progress, may as well ******* vote liberal next time.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

So you're basically saying it's better in everyway lol??? I think you are missing something.... It's like going from an XF to a FG

And the other major factor for justifying it is (what a lot of people fail to comprehend, including that religious cook Tony Abbott) is that fibre travels at the speed of light, even in 500yrs when internet is a million times faster these exact same cables will still be in use as they'll never become obsolete. It's been done correctly/planned for the future as opposed to greedy right wing baby boomers planning everything for themselves with no regard for anyone/the next generation.

The potential of data this network can handle is overwhelming, for example: Phones, tv channels, billing, banking, education/any form of data can be utilized through it, it already can but not on a national/global scale. This is a relaible static connection, like 1984 lol.

Saying all that the purpose is completely defeated because we still have "Tony Abbott's" trying to ******* capitalise off tax payer funded hardware therefore implementing data limits that restrict any form of progress this technology can offer.

So there you go a massive utopian worldwide network with uncapped potential for filesharing/socialising completely restricted yet again by right wing pigs.

You can't beat them, they're always going to destroy evolution/progress, may as well ******* vote liberal next time.

Let me make some corrections:

Fibre doesn't travel at all, otherwise it wouldn't work.

The speed of light in a vacuum is calculated at 299,792,458 metres per second. The speed of light in fibre optic cable is quite a bit slower.

Fibre network requires regular maintenance, over its life, as you say 500 years (whatever it may actually be) the NBN fibre cables will be replaced a couple of times over. Not to mention the odd backhoe cutting the link.

Apart from these corrections, most of your response was just ranting and wrong too.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by cheap

Let me make some corrections:

Fibre doesn't travel at all, otherwise it wouldn't work.

The speed of light in a vacuum is calculated at 299,792,458 metres per second. The speed of light in fibre optic cable is quite a bit slower.

Fibre network requires regular maintenance, over its life, as you say 500 years (whatever it may actually be) the NBN fibre cables will be replaced a couple of times over. Not to mention the odd backhoe cutting the link.

Apart from these corrections, most of your response was just ranting and wrong too.

Nah I quite clearly meant fibre is faster than the speed of light, Einstein told me this himself at Bang the other night whilst cranking some parkway drive and dilating time.

Far less maintanance than the current ADSL network, don't take my comparison out of context and turn it into something general.

[FGII-XR6]

A few important points

1. some are saying you can stay with ADSL you won't be able as the copper will be replaced with fibre
2. some are saying we can already do things that require high bandwidth but that is true only for those close enough to get decent ADSL NBN will deliver superior service to far more people on rural areas
3. comparing the prices directly with current plans is wrong in most cases as with current plans you often have phone line charges as well
4. 3g wireless is not a reliable option even in metro areas, try wireless after kids get home from school and till about 9 or 10 PM speeds drop like a stone as the available spectrum becomes saturated with a high traffic volume
5. NBN is a monopoly but it is replacing telstras copper line monopoly and will be under government control not ideal but better than duplication of services
6. NBN is not ideal but it is a reasonable and viable method of delivering decent services to the masses giving speeds never before possible to the general consumer
7. yes the cost is high but bear in mind once the fibre is in place the electronics will be upgradable for many decades to come to keep up with demand and technology changes. these changes will most likely be firmware for a fair while but hardware changes can be rolled out gradually with changes being self funding through revenue raised from the operation of the network.
8. NBN will not be providing services to you and I it will be a wholesaler you will still buy your internet from your favourite ISP the only change for you need be the speed of your service and your modem
9. you will always get technophobes but we need to move into the 21st century or risk being seen as a technological backwater in the international marketplace
10. you had those who said I'll only ever use dialup when ADSL was rolled out hand up those who know anyone on dial up today , if there are any they would be few and far between

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Dusty1

NBN won't really benefit the consumer. Business will benefit, as the consumer can now get email, you/red tube as fast as they want it.

It won't be until people in the regions start seeing the benefit with better acess to education, IPTV, telephony,medicine that the benefit will be noticed.

Us in the city won't notice much difference. Those in regional and rural Australia will. The market has so far dictated that telcos see no benefit in wiring up these places.

Just so I understand:

We're talking about rural Australia, the place where systematic government policies (from both sides of politics) have reduced services and many people have left the bush, countless small towns are struggling/closed. Have I got the right picture?

The same place where farmers, graziers and their employees, these people struggle to make ends meet, they don't have normal 9-5 jobs. But according to NBN fantasy, these same people will have countess spare hours available to "do stuff" on the internet thanks to NBN?

Do you think a farmer knows or cares if he's currently on a digital phone line or using the marvellous VOIP. I've got a couple of friends who are farmers and they just want a phone that works, better still a phone that works 40km's away from nowhere. Will NBN fix their crummy NextG/3G coverage - if so how?

Then again, NBN might allow these same people will be make many inexpensive overseas phone calls, perhaps that the benefit?

So how many people are we actually talking about that fit the "NBN rural" picture, 1 million, 5 million, how many? Whats the take up rate of NBN?

Have a read (yes from the evil Murdock empire), but heck it might just let the penny drop for some people:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225876225571

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/art...test-news.html

The NBN rural strategy doesn't make sense to me?

Blanket NBN coverage to the rural countryside is just not a good return on investment. Targeting specific rural business centres might be as problematic. For example, exactly what rural business activity requires 100mbps? Also people in the bush don't normally have the same disposable income as the city dwellers.

You will find most Queensland government rural offices/agencies/hospitals already have a corporate network presence (usually on GWIP) which is adequate for their current needs and can have bandwidth increased with just a phone call to Telstra. Lets get this straight and dispel another NBN myth, eHealth does not require NBN.

The only place where NBN might be appropriate is in the big cities, significant populations in small concentrations, where lots of people work mundane 9-5 jobs and have plenty of spare time and cash available (like you and me) who can use it.

[ILLaViTaR]

I just can't believe they're still charging for speed/data usage it defeats the purpose of networking on a scale such as this. Never made any sense with ADSL (the speed did due to their ****** servers) no other country charges for data usage. I could download 1 TB quite easily with my current ADSL 2 plan. National progression of society only to be destroyed by 8 or so CEO's Mr Telstra, Mr netspace, Mr Optus, inhibitng lifeforms, such a burden to society.

The NBN will be able to be utilized as much as a porsche been confined to a driveway it's entire life.