Fines for running AMBER lights. - Page 4

geckoGT · 18-10-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackers10

if an emergency vehicle is comming i just move out the way...
the worst scenario i see is when stupid people sit at a red light with an ambulance up their clacker and hesitate to pull forward to let them thru... im quite sure ALL the traffic at the intersection is going to see the flashing lights etc

Do not run the red light, it is dangerous for us but suicide for you, just move out of the way as best you can and we will find a way through. We have flashing lights and hi vis reflective striping all over the car and we still get hit (rarely, thankfully) by inattentive drivers, what chance do you have? If you make it through, it is a pure act of god.

A couple of seconds is not worth possible carnage at an intersection running the red may cause.

We will not be happy if the child with an airway obstruction now has to wait 10 minutes for an ambulance instead of 2 minutes, because we now have to peel you out of a car as you have run a red light. Just believe me, I know this stuff and it is not worth the risk .

4Vman · 18-10-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea90gl

Too many small non obvious laws these days, not saying its a bad thing but they are creating big problems. Look around while on the road, who's confident? Everyone drives like they're on egg shells because who knows, they could possibly end up losing a few hundred bucks for not travelling 60.2356 Km/h in a 60.3562 zone while proceeding down the left lane at approximately 1.23 metres away from the gutter while travelling approximately 4.5698 metres behind the car in front. Having low confidence while behind the wheel hosts a number of problems which only makes matters worse while out travelling the streets. I remember how things were better only 5 years ago while driving

If this is how you view driving id suggest you'd be doing us all a favour by handing your licence in and walking....
It sounds to me like its a tad too complicated for you.

Rodp · 18-10-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea90gl

Too many small non obvious laws these days, not saying its a bad thing but they are creating big problems. Look around while on the road, who's confident? Everyone drives like they're on egg shells because who knows, they could possibly end up losing a few hundred bucks for not travelling 60.2356 Km/h in a 60.3562 zone while proceeding down the left lane at approximately 1.23 metres away from the gutter while travelling approximately 4.5698 metres behind the car in front. Having low confidence while behind the wheel hosts a number of problems which only makes matters worse while out travelling the streets. I remember how things were better only 5 years ago while driving

Being fined for running an Amber when it was apparent that you could have come to a stop safely has been a part of the law before I got behind the wheel of a car... over 20 years ago! Sticking the boot in when the lights go amber and being booked for it is a small, non obvious law?!

AUIIForte · 19-10-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

But being a P plater couldn't you use the "Can't stop safely" defence?

After all P platers can't do ANYTHING safely.........

Speaking from your own personal experience? Because I didn't sense any sarcasm there.

AUIIForte · 19-10-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Absolutely, they are exceptional circumstances that the fault will be put on the front vehicle and this would only happen once in a blue moon. The only one I can think of is if a car changes lanes in front of another and then slams on the brakes without giving the rear car a chance to adjust distance. Wet roads, oil, unexpected stop etc are not reasons, the car behind was too close. Before anyone argues with this statement, ring your local police and ask their opinion, I know what they will say

Happened to me. Driving down a road at 60km/h. 2 lane road and I was on the outside lane. Next to the left lane were a few parked cars. I was going on my way when all of a sudden an old filipino women in her new looking Peugeot pulled out of the parking area to do what I straight away assumed to be a U-turn, cutting through 2 lanes and going onto the other side of the road. So I slammed my brakes, but still hit her .

Straight from the bat, she started yelling at me for not watching and being blind and not slowing down enough to let her get out of the side parking area, to let her do her U-turn, which was illegal as she wanted to cut through a solid line in the middle of the road.

I took it all in. I didn't yell back, name call or even argue. I kept silent the whole time. Only asking for her information, and requestin we go to the police station together which was only 2 min walk away.

Month later, they stated it was her fault completely, she was fined, and my car was 100% repaired without me spending a single cent.

geckoGT · 19-10-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUIIForte

Happened to me. Driving down a road at 60km/h. 2 lane road and I was on the outside lane. Next to the left lane were a few parked cars. I was going on my way when all of a sudden an old filipino women in her new looking Peugeot pulled out of the parking area to do what I straight away assumed to be a U-turn, cutting through 2 lanes and going onto the other side of the road. So I slammed my brakes, but still hit her .

Straight from the bat, she started yelling at me for not watching and being blind and not slowing down enough to let her get out of the side parking area, to let her do her U-turn, which was illegal as she wanted to cut through a solid line in the middle of the road.

I took it all in. I didn't yell back, name call or even argue. I kept silent the whole time. Only asking for her information, and requestin we go to the police station together which was only 2 min walk away.

Month later, they stated it was her fault completely, she was fined, and my car was 100% repaired without me spending a single cent.

I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have seen an accident from an illegal Uturn

Weirdest one I went to was a 12 year old boy that decided he was going to take his dad's uninsured and unregistered car for a drive. He drove up a hill around the corner from his house. The car spluttered as it was low on fuel so without looking he has cut across 2 lanes of traffic, across double unbroken lines trying to do a Uturn to get it home. He almost made it but the new commodore could not quite pull up and gave him a love tap. He sat in the seat of the car sweating as he knew how much trouble he was in and half a dozen people would not let him out of the car. We took him to the childrens hospital to get him checked out, on the way he asked what I think his old man would do, to which I replied "ground you until you are 21, I hope".

Anyway, the old man was waiting at the hospital, asked if he was ok as he gave him a hug, when he found out he was not injured, the tone was not good. I wonder if he is off the grounding yet. In the end no one was hurt and damage was minimal but it could have been a lot worse.

ea90gl · 19-10-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

If this is how you view driving id suggest you'd be doing us all a favour by handing your licence in and walking....
It sounds to me like its a tad too complicated for you.

Why am I not surprised..... you missed my point anyway and btw some of use sarcasm here and there

ea90gl · 19-10-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Being fined for running an Amber when it was apparent that you could have come to a stop safely has been a part of the law before I got behind the wheel of a car... over 20 years ago! Sticking the boot in when the lights go amber and being booked for it is a small, non obvious law?!

I think this is definately a non obvious law and I'd gaurantee if a bunch of people were surveyed they wouldnt know about it and it would bring up a few ? marks. I think its one of those things that should be put out there more, they harp on about running red lights/ speeding is illegal all the time, it wouldn't hurt to outline the legalities of running the amber light more often. Ask 100 people if speeding is illegal then go ask the same mob about the legalities of the amber and I'm sure the results will vary. And no I'm not saying the rules are a joke or anything just my opinion and how it should be put out more thats all

jonrothwell · 19-10-2008, 05:42 PM

OK, here is what happened to some people I know.
They approached a green light which turned amber just before they got to it, judging that they were safer to pass through they drifted through long before it turned red. The ute next to them locked up his brakes and slid up to the lights in a cloud of smoke.
The cop at 90 degrees to them (he couldn't therefore see the orange) then booked the driver because he was driving an (older) Mercedes that should have been able to stop sooner in the cops opinion.
He paid the fine.
In my opinion this was a crock.
Was the cop a qualified mechanic and Mercedes expert? Did he know the performance and braking figures for the vehicles involved?
Don't take this sort of crap on the chin, challenge it in court, then we might see some good policing that books hoons and dangerous drivers rather than picking on the easy target.

geckoGT · 19-10-2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonrothwell

Was the cop a qualified mechanic and Mercedes expert? Did he know the performance and braking figures for the vehicles involved?
Don't take this sort of crap on the chin, challenge it in court, then we might see some good policing that books hoons and dangerous drivers rather than picking on the easy target.

He does not need to be a mechanic to know the average braking abilities of a road worthy car, type of car is irrelevant.

Quote:

I think this is definately a non obvious law and I'd gaurantee if a bunch of people were surveyed they wouldnt know about it and it would bring up a few ? marks. I think its one of those things that should be put out there more, they harp on about running red lights/ speeding is illegal all the time, it wouldn't hurt to outline the legalities of running the amber light more often. Ask 100 people if speeding is illegal then go ask the same mob about the legalities of the amber and I'm sure the results will vary. And no I'm not saying the rules are a joke or anything just my opinion and how it should be put out more thats all

It is up to each individual driver to ensure that they are aware of all road rules, ignorance is not a defence against infringements. If there are so many people that do not know this law then there are a lot of people that should not retain their right to drive. I am sure there are better things to spend tax payer money on rather than advertising campaigns to remind drivers of stuff that they should maintain knowledge on. Another example of people not taking responsibility of their own inadequacies.

jonrothwell · 19-10-2008, 07:49 PM

I disagree. What we can work out from this story is that the ute was not fitted with ABS, hence the lockup.
Was the Merc fitted with ABS? Was it a heavier vehicle? Was it newer or older than the ute?
If you are going to bust someone only on a subjective judgement that they should have been able to stop quicker than the vehicle next to them, then you will need to know what you are talking about when it gets to court.

geckoGT · 19-10-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonrothwell

I disagree. What we can work out from this story is that the ute was not fitted with ABS, hence the lockup.
Was the Merc fitted with ABS? Was it a heavier vehicle? Was it newer or older than the ute?
If you are going to bust someone only on a subjective judgement that they should have been able to stop quicker than the vehicle next to them, then you will need to know what you are talking about when it gets to court.

Agreed but maybe the cop believed that the Merc had ample room to stop in his assessment, that is his choice. If you disagree, fight it. If the fine has been payed, then the driver has admitted they could have stopped.

At the end of the day, I was not there, I did not see it happen so I do not know. What I do know regarding stories like this, there are often two sides to a story and the cop's story probably differs greatly. For a start, did the ute start braking immediately or was he day dreaming and se it at the last minute? Was the light red by the time the Merc cleared the intersection?

Maybe the cop was being pedantic, maybe not, who knows? I do highly doubt that he booked the Merc based solely on the fact that the ute stopped though. How old is this Merc by the way (better still year and model), how old was the ute?

Rodp · 19-10-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea90gl

I think this is definately a non obvious law and I'd gaurantee if a bunch of people were surveyed they wouldnt know about it and it would bring up a few ? marks. I think its one of those things that should be put out there more, they harp on about running red lights/ speeding is illegal all the time, it wouldn't hurt to outline the legalities of running the amber light more often. Ask 100 people if speeding is illegal then go ask the same mob about the legalities of the amber and I'm sure the results will vary. And no I'm not saying the rules are a joke or anything just my opinion and how it should be put out more thats all

Before you sat your driving test, did you read the book marked 'Road Rules'?

In the soft copy I have, it's clearly spelled out and takes up a page and a half of the handbook.

57 Stopping for a yellow traffic light or arrow

(1) This rule applies to:

(a) a driver approaching or at traffic lights showing a yellow

traffic light; or

(b) a driver approaching or at traffic arrows showing a yellow traffic arrow who is turning in the direction indicated by the arrow.

(2) The driver must stop:

(a) if there is a stop line at or near the traffic lights or arrows and the driver can stop safely before reaching the stop line — as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the stop line; or

(b) if there is no stop line at or near the traffic lights or arrows and the driver can stop safely before reaching the traffic lights or arrows — as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the nearest or only traffic lights or arrows; or

(c) if the traffic lights or arrows are at an intersection and the driver cannot stop safely in accordance with paragraph (a) or (b), but can stop safely before entering the intersection — before entering the intersection.

Offence provision.

Note Enter, intersection and stop line are defined in the dictionary.

(3) If the traffic lights or arrows are at an intersection and the driver is not able to stop safely under subrule (2) and enters the intersection, the driver must leave the intersection as soon as the driver can do so safely.

jonrothwell · 19-10-2008, 08:15 PM

Ah well those are the $64,000.00 questions, but the Merc did clear the intersection on the orange light.

Knowing both the Merc and the driver my opinion is that the cop didn't really know when the light turned orange. The Merc is a lateish model with ABS driven every day but the driver did not feel that stopping was safe given the traffic so erred on the side of caution (which is why we have orange lights after all).

I was stunned that the driver didn't fight it, but he was of the opinion that it was just less hassle to pay the fine rather than hire a lawyer and take time off work to go to court.

In this case only the government wins.

geckoGT · 19-10-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonrothwell

Ah well those are the $64,000.00 questions, but the Merc did clear the intersection on the orange light.

Knowing both the Merc and the driver my opinion is that the cop didn't really know when the light turned orange. The Merc is a lateish model with ABS driven every day but the driver did not feel that stopping was safe given the traffic so erred on the side of caution (which is why we have orange lights after all).

Taking it into account the type of vehicle, I agree with the cop. If a non abs equipped ute can stop, so can a lateish Merc equipped with abs that would easily out brake the ute. The owner of the merc admitted this when they paid the fine, end of story.

jonrothwell · 19-10-2008, 08:55 PM

Our difference of opinion just shows that there is room for interpretation in this situation.

If it was me I would have fought it in court all the way, but you are right, by paying the fine the driver admitted he was in the wrong (even if he wasn't).

geckoGT · 19-10-2008, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonrothwell

Our difference of opinion just shows that there is room for interpretation in this situation.

If it was me I would have fought it in court all the way, but you are right, by paying the fine the driver admitted he was in the wrong (even if he wasn't).

Mate, any law that mentions "provided it is safe to do so" is open to interpretation.

Unfortunately there is no black and white answer, the cop had to make a subjective assessment and it up to the driver to challenge this through the correct channels if they disagree. The courts are the only test of who was right in this situation.

I can see the basis of your opinion and in some elements I kind of agree, I am also saying I can see where the cop is coming from too. As for the cop seeing the amber, you can often see the lights 90 degrees to your own position so I bet he could see them.

ea90gl · 19-10-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Before you sat your driving test, did you read the book marked 'Road Rules'?

In the soft copy I have, it's clearly spelled out and takes up a page and a half of the handbook.

57 Stopping for a yellow traffic light or arrow

(1) This rule applies to:

(a) a driver approaching or at traffic lights showing a yellow

traffic light; or

(b) a driver approaching or at traffic arrows showing a yellow traffic arrow who is turning in the direction indicated by the arrow.

(2) The driver must stop:

(a) if there is a stop line at or near the traffic lights or arrows and the driver can stop safely before reaching the stop line — as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the stop line; or

(b) if there is no stop line at or near the traffic lights or arrows and the driver can stop safely before reaching the traffic lights or arrows — as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the nearest or only traffic lights or arrows; or

(c) if the traffic lights or arrows are at an intersection and the driver cannot stop safely in accordance with paragraph (a) or (b), but can stop safely before entering the intersection — before entering the intersection.

Offence provision.

Note Enter, intersection and stop line are defined in the dictionary.

(3) If the traffic lights or arrows are at an intersection and the driver is not able to stop safely under subrule (2) and enters the intersection, the driver must leave the intersection as soon as the driver can do so safely.

Never said I didnt know the law

ea90gl · 19-10-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

He does not need to be a mechanic to know the average braking abilities of a road worthy car, type of car is irrelevant.

It is up to each individual driver to ensure that they are aware of all road rules, ignorance is not a defence against infringements. If there are so many people that do not know this law then there are a lot of people that should not retain their right to drive. I am sure there are better things to spend tax payer money on rather than advertising campaigns to remind drivers of stuff that they should maintain knowledge on. Another example of people not taking responsibility of their own inadequacies.

No worries since we all have time to go back over every single road rule and check for new ones everyday.... stating that someone doesnt deserve a licence simply because they do not know each and every single road rule is nonsense, I take it you know each rule back to front? And since there is a vast majority out there and they are so important as to come with hefty fines for breaking them well I suppose it wouldnt be a waste of tax payers $$$ to put them out there more regularly..... Or maybe its just easier to leave people unimformed and let them cop the fines so the great government collects the cash

geckoGT · 19-10-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea90gl

No worries since we all have time to go back over every single road rule and check for new ones everyday.... stating that someone doesnt deserve a licence simply because they do not know each and every single road rule is nonsense, I take it you know each rule back to front? And since there is a vast majority out there and they are so important as to come with hefty fines for breaking them well I suppose it wouldnt be a waste of tax payers $$$ to put them out there more regularly..... Or maybe its just easier to leave people unimformed and let them cop the fines so the great government collects the cash

You have some basis to your statement, however this law is one that has not changed in at least 20yrs. More importantly road laws do not change very frequently, perhaps re read the latest book ever 2-5 yrs would do, I am sure you can find time.

Rodp · 20-10-2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea90gl

No worries since we all have time to go back over every single road rule and check for new ones everyday.... stating that someone doesnt deserve a licence simply because they do not know each and every single road rule is nonsense, I take it you know each rule back to front? And since there is a vast majority out there and they are so important as to come with hefty fines for breaking them well I suppose it wouldnt be a waste of tax payers $$$ to put them out there more regularly..... Or maybe its just easier to leave people unimformed and let them cop the fines so the great government collects the cash

So a law that governs when you can and can't enter an intersection is just an obscure law that was tucked in the back of the rules book so that the government can fill their coffers? You don't have to check to see if this is a new law, it's been the law for a lot longer than I've been behind the wheel of a car! If it hasn't been a law since the inception of traffic lights, I'd be shocked.

The law governing red lights is the paragraph before and takes less space in the rule book than the law governing yellow lights. So I would assume that the law governing red lights is even more obscure? If someone doesn't know traffic light rules, no - they shouldn't be entitled to hold a drivers licence!

Seeing as you believe laws are sneakily passed with hefty fines attached so 'tax payers' can be slugged with fines, list an obscure one that very few would know about that has been included in the road rules in the last 5 years.

Buddy 1 · 20-10-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

You have some basis to your statement, however this law is one that has not changed in at least 20yrs. More importantly road laws do not change very frequently, perhaps re read the latest book ever 2-5 yrs would do, I am sure you can find time.

Oh Nooo here Comes that Damm Buddy to make another Comment

Ok my Opinion is we all Have the Licence test when young & not Many of us would go back to read another Book on Traffic Laws until we are Really Old when we are then Required to do another Driving test & in that time some Rules may have changed so we are not aware of all of them as they are now.

I have been Driving for something close to 30 years & have never gone back over a Road Rules book although have at times taken Notice of RTA Commercials showing some New Road Rules.

Now does that make me or others like me a Bad Driver?

Not in the slightest as most of the Pathetic Drivers I see nearly everyday are younger Drivers (17-25) or so & I do not just mean Speeding Drivers, for example half the Drivers on the Road have no idea how to use Indicators or bother using them at all!

I cannot even count how many times have I been approaching a Roundabout & had a Vehicle coming towards me with no Indicator only to turn right in front of me !!!

Or had a Vehicle I am following spend half the time so far over towards the left of the Lane they are in the Gravel kicking up rocks & the other Half of the time over the Middle lines.

Or a Vehicle doing 30 KMH in a Road works section that says 60KMH which is usually 90KMH while no work is even being done or lanes blocked.

Or Vehicles that will do 120KMH on a straight wide road & slow to 80KMH if the road Narrows a bit or has a few bends in it.

Or even worse have these Morons behind you Pushing you along on the wide straight roads when you are doing the speed limit only to lose them when the Road Narrows because you are keeping a constant speed to have them catch up with you & push you once again because the Road is Wide & Straight & all of a sudden they think they are good Drivers !

I could go on & give Many Examples however think I have said enough once again lol

And not all the Bad Drivers are Young or Female either however many of them are either or both

Some Really Old Drivers are Nasty on the Roads as well

:

geckoGT · 20-10-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

Oh Nooo here Comes that Damm Buddy to make another Comment

Ok my Opinion is we all Have the Licence test when young & not Many of us would go back to read another Book on Traffic Laws until we are Really Old when we are then Required to do another Driving test & in that time some Rules may have changed so we are not aware of all of them as they are now.

I have been Driving for something close to 30 years & have never gone back over a Road Rules book although have at times taken Notice of RTA Commercials showing some New Road Rules.

Now does that make me or others like me a Bad Driver?

Not in the slightest as most of the Pathetic Drivers I see nearly everyday are younger Drivers (17-25) or so & I do not just mean Speeding Drivers, for example half the Drivers on the Road have no idea how to use Indicators or bother using them at all!

I cannot even count how many times have I been approaching a Roundabout & had a Vehicle coming towards me with no Indicator only to turn right in front of me !!!

Or had a Vehicle I am following spend half the time so far over towards the left of the Lane they are in the Gravel kicking up rocks & the other Half of the time over the Middle lines.

Or a Vehicle doing 30 KMH in a Road works section that says 60KMH which is usually 90KMH while no work is even being done or lanes blocked.

Or Vehicles that will do 120KMH on a straight wide road & slow to 80KMH if the road Narrows a bit or has a few bends in it.

Or even worse have these Morons behind you Pushing you along on the wide straight roads when you are doing the speed limit only to lose them when the Road Narrows because you are keeping a constant speed to have them catch up with you & push you once again because the Road is Wide & Straight & all of a sudden they think they are good Drivers !

I could go on & give Many Examples however think I have said enough once again lol

And not all the Bad Drivers are Young or Female either however many of them are either or both

Some Really Old Drivers are Nasty on the Roads as well

:

You have some valid points although I would suggest that most of them are not the rsult of ignorance of road laws, rather a lack of compliance or laziness.

As for your statement regarding the knowledge of road laws, you have to prove that you know them to get your licence, the onus of keeping abreast of changes and refreshing your knowledge is up to the individual, end of story. In the eyes of the law, ignorance is not a defence once you have a licence.

I for one would rather see money required to advertise rules that have not changed since Noah ruled the high seas used on more important issues such as road quality.

I do not know one person that does not have the time to refresh themselves with a bit of light reading if they find themselves forgetting a few things (which is natural and does happen). Failure to do this is pure laziness or lack of responsibility, why should my taxes pay for that. I would much rather get a set of traffic lights at the end of the street which is a hell intersection and caused numerous accidents. To me that is a better way to spend that money rather than fund peoples laziness.

Buddy 1 · 20-10-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

You have some valid points although I would suggest that most of them are not the rsult of ignorance of road laws, rather a lack of compliance or laziness.

As for your statement regarding the knowledge of road laws, you have to prove that you know them to get your licence, the onus of keeping abreast of changes and refreshing your knowledge is up to the individual, end of story. In the eyes of the law, ignorance is not a defence once you have a licence.

I for one would rather see money required to advertise rules that have not changed since Noah ruled the high seas used on more important issues such as road quality.

I do not know one person that does not have the time to refresh themselves with a bit of light reading if they find themselves forgetting a few things (which is natural and does happen). Failure to do this is pure laziness or lack of responsibility, why should my taxes pay for that. I would much rather get a set of traffic lights at the end of the street which is a hell intersection and caused numerous accidents. To me that is a better way to spend that money rather than fund peoples laziness.

However my main point is that even though I or others like myself have not refreshed our Road Rules Knowledge we are still Safe & Good Drivers who Know or remember the Important Rules & Many Younger Drivers who would or Should know the Latest Rules are not as Good or Safe Drivers.

And Many of the Examples I have given are not Just laziness or even if they are it would still make those Drivers Unsafe on the Road as it is not all about knowing the Rules you also have to implement them :P

I have a 17 Year Old Son who does know the Rules because I saw him time & time again get 100% on the RTA Test website however even though he knows them he does not Obey all of them lol

He has a very Fast 650 cc Motorbike much to my Dismay & he uses all of its power when he can

:

And for the DoGooders who say if it is a Law it makes sense because Smarter people than Myself have made them try this, My Sons Motorbike can do 0-100 k's in 4 seconds with a top speed of approx 260 Kmh yet he is Legally able to ride it on L Plates as long as it has Carby slides without Holes which cut back the power a bit.

And he only has a Motorbike because he cannot have a Powerful Car as the Goverment passed a law saying so yet did not seem to Notice the Motorbikes can go faster & are many times more Dangerous.

Sorry off topic however it does prove a point about how smart Many Laws are or rather are Not.

As a Parent I would rather see him with a V8 or Turbo XR6 than a Motorbike.

Though think a Less powerful Vehicle would be a better starting point.

geckoGT · 20-10-2008, 12:33 PM

[QUOTE=Buddy 1]However my main point is that even though I or others like myself have not refreshed our Road Rules Knowledge we are still Safe & Good Drivers who Know or remember the Important Rules & Many Younger Drivers who would or Should know the Latest Rules are not as Good or Safe Drivers.

QUOTE]

Simple, if a driver does not know the laws regarding traffic lights, they are neither a good driver or safe driver, its not that hard. We are not talking of intricate laws laws here, we are discussing a law that is pivotal to road safety. Next we will have some saying that they have forgotten what a give way sign is about because the government has not advertised it.

As for your son, the one person that has the most influence in his life is you, not the govenment. In some states motorcycles are limited to capacity for new riders. At the end of the day a Honda CB250 and Suzuki GSXR 1300 Hyabusa can both only do 60 in a 60 zone, no matter how much power is in the thing, it is the person with his hand on the throttle that turns it into a death trap. I just hope your son has the common sense to ride safely and enjoys a long life.

Buddy 1 · 20-10-2008, 12:53 PM

[QUOTE=geckoGT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

However my main point is that even though I or others like myself have not refreshed our Road Rules Knowledge we are still Safe & Good Drivers who Know or remember the Important Rules & Many Younger Drivers who would or Should know the Latest Rules are not as Good or Safe Drivers.

QUOTE]

Simple, if a driver does not know the laws regarding traffic lights, they are neither a good driver or safe driver, its not that hard. We are not talking of intricate laws laws here, we are discussing a law that is pivotal to road safety. Next we will have some saying that they have forgotten what a give way sign is about because the government has not advertised it.

As for your son, the one person that has the most influence in his life is you, not the govenment. In some states motorcycles are limited to capacity for new riders. At the end of the day a Honda CB250 and Suzuki GSXR 1300 Hyabusa can both only do 60 in a 60 zone, no matter how much power is in the thing, it is the person with his hand on the throttle that turns it into a death trap. I just hope your son has the common sense to ride safely and enjoys a long life.

Umm did you not Notice I had Expanded the Topic to Road Rules in General & also Safe Driving in general :P

Well it had already Expanded from just Running Amber lights before I Made my Comments Today

And Re your Comments about me Having more Influence with my Son than the Goverment, that is just wrong lol he is a teenager & as such takes not much Notice of his Parents or people older than 20 years of Age as we are all old & have no idea (is a Teenager thing).

And to follow your rule of thumb comparing a 250 to a 650 why then did the Goverment ban young Drivers from Driving V8's or Turbo vehicles as you could say the same for young people driving powerful Cars & again it is a young persons thing to push the Limits (you should know that being an Ambo).

So if the Goverment only offered young Riders a 250cc with not much power many of them would go for a Car such as a XR6 Na which is much safer in General even if you only factor in being hit by a Car. (Hurts more on a Bike)

And thanks for Hoping my Son lives Long & Prospers lol, Soooo Do I