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12-06-2008, 06:48 PM | #1 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bundoora
Posts: 7,199
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Looking at the comments on the news.com.au website about Toyota's big money handout has everyone fuming. It seems everyone see's the stupidity of the govt giving an already very profitable company huge amounts of cash as they reckon it will save everyone from spending money on fuel!
They seem to think that because it's electric partly that it will save everyone money to buy other things. Toyota would be laughing their heads off! |
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12-06-2008, 07:24 PM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Townsville
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I will have one of those steam powered cars please
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13-06-2008, 12:12 AM | #3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,880
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We have something like 200+ Years of coal reserves. You can turn coal into Diesel without too much effort or money, theres a company already doing it in WA and plans to supply 25% of Australia's Diesel within the next few years.
A few more companies start doing the same and we could be independent Theres also massive supply of oil shale reserves in the US and Canada, something like 5 times the size of the ME reserves. But it was only once the oil price reached $75+ a barrel that it became worthwhile to extract and convert. We wont run out of oil anytime soon, it just wont be 80c a litre though
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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13-06-2008, 12:24 AM | #4 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21
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Arg, what a messy and extremely complex issue this is...
Lots of points. Re: Electric cars use fossil fuel power-plant energy. Whilst this is true, energy production at a power-plant is much more efficient that a cars ICE. Its not a accurate comparison. And as greener electricity generators come online, the end user doesn't have to change or buy new equipment, as the existing infrastructure will be used. Re: Biodiesel. I know in NZ they are developing a bacteria produced fuel, but making biodiesel from crops is potentially not much better than using oil-diesel, when you look at the whole carbon footprint. Growing the crop requires a lot of energy, which detracts from the end result significantly. And we don't want to give Brazilians to chop down more of the Amazon for growing bio-crops. Re: Hydrogen. Efficient production methods actual creates large quantities of CO2 as a bi-product. And I'm sure they can work on this, but currently it takes 2½ times as much energy to make a hydrogen fuel cell than is obtained from it. I might be wrong on some of these issues, I'm not an Environmental Scientist, but I try to keep up with the pro's and con's of all the options. What I want to see is a variety of green power generators (wind, solar, nuclear, clean-coal) feeding the grid, then 99% of the cars lapping up this energy, saving the planet, and the other 1% of cars are Ford V8's, making huge noise and HP! |
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14-06-2008, 02:58 PM | #5 | |||||||
Force Fed Fords
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Quote:
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As for hydrogen, it is energy intensive in its production and therefore not viable unless when created with nuclear energy. Nuclear is the cheapest, cleanest and now safest energy source on the planet; but it has been hijacked by alarmists that cite Chernobyl (a 30 year old reactor built on the cheap by communists) as reasons not to do it. 60% of americas energy comes from nuclear, how many accidents have you heard of in the last 20 years? Quote:
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13-06-2008, 12:32 AM | #6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I read an interesting article that electric cars powered by electricity derived from an average coal plant, actually polluted more than a ULEV petrol vehicle.
Electric cars would be fine if all the electricity was derived from Nuclear.
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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13-06-2008, 12:55 AM | #7 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 689
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What I find infuriating is the belief that Toyota were considering building hybrid Camrys here without a $70m govt handout...
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13-06-2008, 09:49 AM | #8 | |||
Dirt Squirter
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Posts: 149
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Lets face it he expects us to beleive that he's OS going on some insane mission of ridding the world of nuclear weapons..Please. Rudd = Dudd! Fail.
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T U K I T E A S Y |
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13-06-2008, 02:08 PM | #9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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All politics and crap aside.
2010 is 18 months away. Falcon is selling well and the average aussie does NOT want tiny little bubblemobiles. We live in the 6th largest country in the world so we tend to travel long distances. Bubblemobiles with 3 kids and luggage are just painful. In 2010 the FG2 falcon will be bugger all different to the FG, in the same way that the BA was bugger all different to the AU. Different engines, same size, same basic shape, same transmission topology (RWD). Only the greenie nutters, zealots and tightarses are really going to do anything in such a short time period. The rest of us really don't care and will buy what they want at the time with cost of operation WAY down the list of priorities. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be..... Falcon without end... |
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20-04-2010, 07:01 PM | #10 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...0416-sixk.html
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20-04-2010, 07:12 PM | #11 | ||
Thailand Specials
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I dont see how a seat belt reminder can automatically add a star to the rating, its not like it makes the car hold up any better in an accident.
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20-04-2010, 07:38 PM | #12 | ||
Walking with God
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 7,321
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Also notice how they omitted the Falcon's 5 star rating?
Mongrels. GK
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20-04-2010, 08:11 PM | #13 | |||
FGX XR8
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Location: Melbourne
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20-04-2010, 08:16 PM | #14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Having a seat belt reminder that annoys occupants into buckling up works. What people have to get past is that this is a point scoring exercise, and that part of it is scoring of basic gear that should be there in the first place and the second is injury scores after the crash. Rightly or wrongly, ANCAP is now looking to stop manufacturers achieving easy 4 and 5 star ratings... |
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20-04-2010, 08:25 PM | #15 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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The crash ratings are based on a points system. The points are broken down simply to a star system for dumb shits. A seat belt reminder if i recall will add two points to a vehicles safety which may just push it into the next bracket. Edit: beaten to it. Last edited by irish2; 20-04-2010 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Too slow |
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20-04-2010, 08:35 PM | #16 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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From ANCAP website:
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20-04-2010, 08:52 PM | #17 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I got bored with reading this thread so I havn't read the whole thing but lets be realistic here - scenario : company makes a car that runs on a presently undiscovered energy source that is clean green and cheap! - petrol vehicles become redundant due to high running costs demand for new fuel source skyrockets - governments of the world start stacking on excise on the new fuel - the environment benefits greatly BUT it costs us all just as much if not more to run our cars due to the fatcats profiteering and taxing the fuel.
I feel the answer is split on demand hydrogen and oxygen from water - its very dense in liquid form and when split is at the perfect 2:1 fuel oxygen ratio will be cheap plentiful and environmentally neutral but they cant profiteer as above on water (it falls from the sky remember) so this system whilst I believe is possible and has been done will never happen due to the fact that no money will be made when its time to refuel.
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20-04-2010, 08:57 PM | #18 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Hydrogen can be made cost effectively at nuclear power plants due to the extreme temperatures generated.
If Australia was ever to go nuclear, the Thorium salt reactor is probably the safest and least polluting of the lot, it's spent fuel is only lethal for about 350-500 years... |
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20-04-2010, 10:40 PM | #19 | |||
Constant annoyance
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Japan
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The church of hydrogen seems to be multiplying, why not take a minute to actually check your facts: it takes energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. A LOT of energy! more energy than you will get back from combustion of hydrogen and oxygen, and still more than electric cells. It isn't a miracle cure for ANYTHING, you still have to jump the hurdle of supplying the energy to produce hydrogen. Hydrogen is not an undiscovered energy source, in fact it isn't even a naturally occurring source of energy. It is simply a different energy form. So energy needs to come from somewhere still! I'm sorry if I come across as rude, but its just so bloody stupid to carry on about hydrogen being the answer to everything. I'd suggest a beginners course in physics to all the members of the church on hydrogen (even more so the church of HHO).
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20-04-2010, 09:01 PM | #20 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,372
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i got to halfway down page 2 before i realised this was an old thread. i wonder if any of the prophets of doom have gone back and had a look at their predictions.
on the topic of hybrids (i'm not a fan) but doesn't ford america have a reasonable range of hybrids in production? what would be the comparitive cost of these if ford australia decided to import these rather than make their own. given that there are hybrid models already in the ford stable, i can't see ford (global) putting up the funds to develop a hybrid in australia when there is already one in the ford household. i believe the direction that ford are going with these ecoboost engines is the way to go. a lot of manufacturers are taking this path, small capacity forced induction. |
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20-04-2010, 09:23 PM | #21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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An absolute smorgasbord of options.... |
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20-04-2010, 10:16 PM | #22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Melb north
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we have too start shouting the sky is falling now because from december 22/ 2012 we won`t have to worry about it :
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20-04-2010, 11:16 PM | #23 | ||
Meh.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wollongong
Posts: 68
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Falcon doesnt have to die, but probably will. When, who knows!
Unless you want to live like the Flinstones, then there is no correct solution. They all impact the environment in there own ways and the idea of neutralising carbon footprints to create massive energy needs is poo. We need someone with balls and legislation to commit to a preferred solution (other than oil) that provides a baseline for innovation and competition. Think of something like Hydrogen power as a baseline (purely an example, I have no allegiance here), compare that to something like BluRay Discs. They finally picked up BluRay as a standard form of media and now its becoming main stream. Soon BluRay players will be in Aldi and cost no more than a pack of tampons, similar to a DVD player today. Yes BluRay will be replaced at some point, but it does provide a line in the sand to execute innovation but also maximise its benefits. More importantly its affordable and wont break the economy trying to support it. Lessons will be learnt and a new form of media will take over....you could legislate that also i.e. new baseline required in 20 years. USB is another great example. My point, sign all the manufactures up to a technical standard/baseline that meets most of the objectives in solving climate change, don't try and solve them all. Manufactures continuing to show each other how big and shiny there ideas aint going to solve anything, they will continue to change and evolve and never deliver the solutions practically (and affordable) needed to solve problems. It can only be done in masses! Euro Emission standards and the like are a good start, but there needs to be more focus on alternate fuel methods. For once Governments should dictate requirements and demand solutions with ratified technical direction, rather than just let the manufactures guide our future. (hope that doesn't read to North Korean) |
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21-04-2010, 02:43 AM | #24 | |||
5.8 litres of fun
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as far as fords hybrids, what about the fusion? http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/fusion/
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21-04-2010, 08:26 PM | #25 | ||
Mad Scientist!
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Location: Newcastle
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The problem with nuclear is the public perception of vast fields of waste being generated. This is true to an extent but when you look at today's plants, they are recycling so much of the material, that they now get 3 goes at it not 1 like the olden style systems.
There was a segment on Catalyst last yr about the latest design of Nuclear power stations, designed and built in China. This new system CANNOT go into melt down, like the older style systems still being built today. There is also alot less waste and is more efficient then the older systems. This is something we need to look at |
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22-04-2010, 11:11 PM | #26 | ||
Big Member
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Location: SE Qld
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For once Im gunna be a foll-an readneck,
All I have to say is, the world has to run out of fossil fuel supplies at some satge. I intend to use my fair share! I wont be buying a hybrid/electric till its law!
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23-04-2010, 01:13 AM | #27 | ||
5.8 litres of fun
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cobar
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no matter what happens with ford,when im a 90 odd year old bloke thats doin wet farts full time i will still be driving a falcon.falcons are a major part of australia and always will be no matter what shape or form they take. Even if they do eventually kill of the falcon, which i very much doubt they will, ill bloody well buy and older falcon to drive so i can keep some of my aussie pride alive...and to just ******** off all the doomsdayers out there.
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27-04-2010, 06:28 PM | #28 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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http://www.caradvice.com.au/65754/to...-rating-ancap/
Update: ANCAP results confirm four-star safety rating. Quote:
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27-04-2010, 06:31 PM | #29 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
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http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...0427-tnp9.html
Quote:
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27-04-2010, 06:40 PM | #30 | ||||
Force Fed Fords
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Quote:
What Toyota failed to realise is that they need to have little electric shocks given to the driver every 5 minutes to prevent them falling asleep behind the wheel of a boring fridge on wheels.
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If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to power an ants go-cart a half a lap around a Cheerio - Ron Shirley Quote:
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