Disaffected By Ford Ending Local Manufacture ?

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Trev, you might want to try a BMW X5, mate of mine has one and its a very impressive bit of kit.

Mate, I have, in all specs, I knock around with a few guys that have them in all the various high end specs as company cars, and on any Aussie back road they are still piles of crap in comparison to the Territory. The only thing the Tezza is missing is latest tech engine that marries huge torque with good fuel economy, but dynamically handling wise they still make X5 etc. look silly on our roads, and you keep a good flowing pace due to the superior back road handling and thus point to point despite giving away about 462 million years in engine tech are still just as fast. I am a demanding driver of what ever I punt, and trust me when push comes to shove the Territory makes X5 look pretty crap if you don't count standing start acceleration etc.... And there is about 75km of mountain roads between me and the closest traffic light to my house so off the mark pull matters little... But still Territory is awesome car, at awesome price, waiting for an engine to do the rest of the package justice. Plus you think Territory resale is bad, you can't give away high spec 120k X5s for 40k three years later..... I could buy two new Territory's in that time and burn them after I finished and still be in front :-)

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

I never understand it either
These people ,and maybe a majority didn't buy Fords in general and now turn their nose up

I am on my sixth Falcon of which four were purchased brand new. Therefore I have a right to turn up my nose against Ford.

[mcnews]

Those optional x5 big rims with those huge fat tyres are awesome on Aussie dirt roads too if you like punctures and huge dents in your rims every 50km or so... Just awesome they are :-)

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by stevz

The saddest thing about the demise of large Aussie rwd cars and local manufacture is that the next generation of kids are going to grow into a bunch of limp wristed........ (you know the rest) who think that small, gutless fwd buzzboxes are the ducks guts. What a sad and bleak future we have to look forward to.

I guess the same must be true of all those people who grew up with Escorts, etc.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Rodge

I know there's been a lot of threads about manufacturing ceasing in due course but I'm
interested in looking at how this has affected your enthusiasm for the brand ?

Do you feel disaffected, (somewhat discontented and resentful), about the announcement ?
Has if affected your future plans regarding future purchase decisions ?
Has it affected your confidence with the brand regarding future assurance of spare
parts, (yes I know they're supposed to build 10 years supply of spare parts but will they ?).
Has it somewhat affected your enjoyment of your present Ford / FPV ?
How do you feel about potentially owning an orphan brand in the future ?
Are you "all at sea" regarding what to do in the future with future purchases like I am ?

No. I have two Falcons at the moment (and if all goes well, more will join them in the future) but I understand the reasons behind Ford ceasing manufacturing in Oz, and while I'm not happy about some of the reasons I hold no resentment towards Fomoco.

Regarding the future, potential candidates for the Leadfoot household are: Fiesta, Focus, Fusion/Mondeo, Kuga, Ranger, and Mustang. The Mrs' just bought a Focus Titanium and it's a fantastic car, I can only imagine what the future holds for the Ford brand worldwide. And who knows...maybe one day a global RWD saloon may rise from the ashes?

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Mate, I have, in all specs, I knock around with a few guys that have them in all the various high end specs as company cars, and on any Aussie back road they are still piles of crap in comparison to the Territory. The only thing the Tezza is missing is latest tech engine that marries huge torque with good fuel economy, but dynamically handling wise they still make X5 etc. look silly on our roads, and you keep a good flowing pace due to the superior back road handling and thus point to point despite giving away about 462 million years in engine tech are still just as fast. I am a demanding driver of what ever I punt, and trust me when push comes to shove the Territory makes X5 look pretty crap if you don't count standing start acceleration etc.... And there is about 75km of mountain roads between me and the closest traffic light to my house so off the mark pull matters little... But still Territory is awesome car, at awesome price, waiting for an engine to do the rest of the package justice. Plus you think Territory resale is bad, you can't give away high spec 120k X5s for 40k three years later..... I could buy two new Territory's in that time and burn them after I finished and still be in front :-)

Spot on, I have driven every comparable model . Myself and everyone I know who understands driving, puts the Territory right up there as one of the best vehicles for Australian roads.
*Definition of Australian roads: Inner city, suburban, smooth highways, pot holes highways, pot holed with broken shouldered roads, single lane roads, dirt roads..... You get my drift.

[mr smith]

I will still most likely buy a Ford if they offer a good unit in the class I am looking at. My thoughts on their current and (rumoured) line up:

Fiesta - Ace, cant wait for the ST (on top of my next car list)
Focus - Not bad, prob go a Corolla or new Mazda 3. ST is awesome.
Mondeo - Pox, definitely not a replacement for my Falcon
Falcon - Ace, just bought my 5th new Ford a FG2 XR6 sedan last week, say no more.
Kuga - haven't driven a new one, old one - Pox
Ranger - Awesome.
Mustang - Hope so, GT would be nice. Have driven a GT500 and I loved the styling and it definitely had a rawness to it but I still prefer the Aussie GT335.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I am on my sixth Falcon of which four were purchased brand new. Therefore I have a right to turn up my nose against Ford.

Thats a strange right to have.

Even if Ford kept manufacturing here and didnt care that they were only making $2 a month Falcon would eventually come to an end, no nameplate lasts forever.

Originally Posted by mcnews

Those optional x5 big rims with those huge fat tyres are awesome on Aussie dirt roads too if you like punctures and huge dents in your rims every 50km or so... Just awesome they are :-)

Then you don't tick that option, or don't go on dirt roads with them...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I am on my sixth Falcon of which four were purchased brand new. Therefore I have a right to turn up my nose against Ford.

you wouldn't consider that immature? serious question!

i get that some people are 'falcon fans' rather than 'ford fans', however i just don't get the rationale behind this type of thinking. perhaps you could explain it to me in simple terms.

[69XWGT]

I owned an XWGT for over 25 years and not likely to sell it. My boy will get it one day.
I have had 6 Falcons, 2 Lasers, 1 Focus, 1 Cortina, 3 Couriers and my last ute was a BT50 in response to some of the crappiest customer service I have ever received. Otherwise it would have been a Ranger.
Everyone one of them was bought new.
I buy a new dual cab every 4 years and was already looking at a new Ranger.
After the announcement I canned the Ranger and bought a Triton and put the twenty grand towards other things.

Ford AU have ben around longer than Holden. In fact so much longer Holden were building cars for Ford before they even built their own.

Ford NA have been trying kill off Falcon since Polites. They have systematically ridden the brand into the ground with some very poor marketing, some even poorer customer service and by not keeping their dealers in line.
They've wanted Falcon dead for a long time.

Even though I have owned other Fords I am a falcon man. Once it goes they are just another manufacturer.
I still won't buy a Holden and i'm even less likely to buy a Toyota
If export markets were found or even CKD kit markets were found Falcon would live.
It's better than any Fusion or that puss bucket Mondeo and deserves to be part of the One Ford Policy

Every new car I buy from now on will be on merit not my love of a badge that has just sold out every Falcon lover in Australia

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by 69XWGT

Ford NA have been trying kill off Falcon since Polites. They have systematically ridden the brand into the ground with some very poor marketing, some even poorer customer service and by not keeping their dealers in line.
They've wanted Falcon dead for a long time.

You seriously think the Ford big wigs told Ford Aus dealers to have bad customer service?

It was the local dealers and their crap aftersales service that did that, there was no edict. If Ford NA wanted the Falcon gone they don't need to conspire in a backroom. They just need to say 'No more Falcons'. They would have shut down manufacturing in Aus on a days notice 5 years ago.

The media rode the brand into the ground, nothing Ford Aus does is good enough, while Holden can have a huge mistake but its still praised by the media. And marketing all comes down to Ford Aus, you cant blame Ford Aus's problems on Ford global. They were in charge of their own marketing.

[69XWGT]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

You seriously think the Ford big wigs told Ford Aus dealers to have bad customer service?

It was the local dealers and their crap aftersales service that did that, there was no edict. If Ford NA wanted the Falcon gone they don't need to conspire in a backroom. They just need to say 'No more Falcons'. They would have shut down manufacturing in Aus on a days notice 5 years ago.

The media rode the brand into the ground, nothing Ford Aus does is good enough, while Holden can have a huge mistake but its still praised by the media. And marketing all comes down to Ford Aus, you cant blame Ford Aus's problems on Ford global. They were in charge of their own marketing.

No I didn't. Not for one minute
Ford Customer Service is crap. Some of their dealers should be shown the door
Clunking diffs and gearboxes and your told it's within specifications. Then they blame you for it when it finally fails.

Ford NA can have all the blame. Polites after the AU **** up made Falcon a winner on and off the track. Burela and the rest of the seppos sent out here did nothing for the Falcon brand

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by stevz

The saddest thing about the demise of large Aussie rwd cars and local manufacture is that the next generation of kids are going to grow into a bunch of limp wristed........ (you know the rest) who think that small, gutless fwd buzzboxes are the ducks guts. What a sad and bleak future we have to look forward to.

Theres many fwd buzz boxes thatll take on and flog many a large sedan ....
Less weight,less power, less drivetrain power lose .....

[Rodge]

I could buy two new Territory's in that time and burn them after I finished and still be in front :-)

fair comment. Mate I'm happy to accept you at your word. I havn't spent much time in my mates X5 and what I have has only been around town when its his turn to play sober driver. I've had the pleasure of driving a Turbo Territory Giha on two occassions and agree, they a fine handling machine. One benifet the old tech diesel has is its the last of the diesel's that doesn't need a diesel particulate filter so for people who use their diesel vehicle in the city a lot that's a real bonus as those filters are hugely prone to plugging up.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Theres many fwd buzz boxes thatll take on and flog many a large sedan ....
Less weight,less power, less drivetrain power lose .....

totally agree when it comes to tight turn twisties.. but my big boofy RWD sedan still drops better skids..

[Danny]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

totally agree when it comes to tight turn twisties.. but my big boofy RWD sedan still drops better skids..

**** yeah!

The RS Megane in Reverse is almost as sick as the F6 though skids wise

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by prydey

you wouldn't consider that immature? serious question!

i get that some people are 'falcon fans' rather than 'ford fans', however i just don't get the rationale behind this type of thinking. perhaps you could explain it to me in simple terms.

There were several thousand Australians a year for several years leaving Falcon, many of them long term buyers.

Really its not hard to figure out. Ford kept doing the same things over and over. Each time getting the same measured outcome - loss of customers and in recent years an acceleration of that loss even compared to Holden.

Look over the forums for the last few years and the evidence is there and its consistent. Both in the problems people had and the responses they got. What did Ford do to fix the problems and what did Ford do to restore relations with customers lost? In short they did a bit but not enough and nothing at all respectively.

Once they had accelerated the decline in market share that they couldn't sustain the business model they refused to change, they quit. Sadly taking a lot of Aussie jobs with them, but thank goodness the corporate culture wasn't exposed to change. That apparently would have been much worse, so bad that it was better to just give up.

Kind of like some on here who sick of hearing about problems with Falcon, set up another forum so they could live in an echo chamber of positive reinforcement, devoid of the reality of what Ford was doing or where it was going with the car they professed to love so much. Beat trying as a fan to do something about the situation. Without realising it, they gave up on Falcon even before Ford did, they just found a comfortable place to wait for the death notice.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

totally agree when it comes to tight turn twisties.. but my big boofy RWD sedan still drops better skids..

Just cant beat a bitta over steer and heaps of right foot down
Spose it is something the new breed of drivers will never experience
Sometimes comin 2nd and enjoying the journey is better than coming first

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Mate, I have, in all specs, I knock around with a few guys that have them in all the various high end specs as company cars, and on any Aussie back road they are still piles of crap in comparison to the Territory. The only thing the Tezza is missing is latest tech engine that marries huge torque with good fuel economy, but dynamically handling wise they still make X5 etc. look silly on our roads, and you keep a good flowing pace due to the superior back road handling and thus point to point despite giving away about 462 million years in engine tech are still just as fast. I am a demanding driver of what ever I punt, and trust me when push comes to shove the Territory makes X5 look pretty crap if you don't count standing start acceleration etc.... And there is about 75km of mountain roads between me and the closest traffic light to my house so off the mark pull matters little... But still Territory is awesome car, at awesome price, waiting for an engine to do the rest of the package justice. Plus you think Territory resale is bad, you can't give away high spec 120k X5s for 40k three years later..... I could buy two new Territory's in that time and burn them after I finished and still be in front :-)

Wasn't the benchmark for the handling of the Territory when it was in development, the X5?
And now that benchmark is crap.......so by extension....

/I'm just sayin'

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by prydey

its the same mentality though isn't it. tyres also used to be manufactured in australia. now they are not. they are manufactured offshore and imported back here. its the same thing. do people boycott all companies that left but still sell products here??

Funny you say that. I kept buying Dunlops until SPT went O/S. Now seeing as I cant really buy Aussie made. I just go on price/performance.

So I look at the Ford in the same way. I'll also have to take into account the stealer if buying new. Ford will be in trouble when I don't really have any stirring for the vehicle.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Matty4

Wasn't the benchmark for the handling of the Territory when it was in development, the X5?
And now that benchmark is crap.......so by extension....

/I'm just sayin'

Piles of crap was overstating it but at the end of the day Territory still handles better than X5 on Aussie roads. No doubt about it.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

There were several thousand Australians a year for several years leaving Falcon, many of them long term buyers.

Really its not hard to figure out. Ford kept doing the same things over and over. Each time getting the same measured outcome - loss of customers and in recent years an acceleration of that loss even compared to Holden.

Look over the forums for the last few years and the evidence is there and its consistent. Both in the problems people had and the responses they got. What did Ford do to fix the problems and what did Ford do to restore relations with customers lost? In short they did a bit but not enough and nothing at all respectively.

Once they had accelerated the decline in market share that they couldn't sustain the business model they refused to change, they quit. Sadly taking a lot of Aussie jobs with them, but thank goodness the corporate culture wasn't exposed to change. That apparently would have been much worse, so bad that it was better to just give up.

Kind of like some on here who sick of hearing about problems with Falcon, set up another forum so they could live in an echo chamber of positive reinforcement, devoid of the reality of what Ford was doing or where it was going with the car they professed to love so much. Beat trying as a fan to do something about the situation. Without realising it, they gave up on Falcon even before Ford did, they just found a comfortable place to wait for the death notice.

so you think an enthusiast forum is an accurate snapshot of the real world? how many falcon buyers (new) are on here? what percentage of new falcon buyers are forum members who actually contribute their experience to the forum? if someone surveyed 1%of the population and used those results as conclusive evidence, they would be laughed at, and yet on here, there is always the same people who bag ford at every opportunity who think a small enthusiast forum is an accurate snapshot of the real world.

do yourself a favour and look up the sales graphs that russell so kindly does. you will find the trend in the 2 large cars to be pretty much the same. the boss of that 'other' company has also been quite vocal lately regarding sustainable production in this country, so i'm not sure how anyone can point the finger at falcon. perhaps ford don't like just surviving using a fair portion of govt funds.

as for the other forum cheap shot, its the same as your opinion on most other things. you only really know your own little snapshot but think you can speak for everyone.

[gtxb67]

having read through this thread the answer is exactly the same as i thought it would be, before i started reading

will ford fans be disaffected by ford closing their manufacturing plant . . . no, they bleed blue
will falcon fans be disaffected by ford closing their manufacturing plant . . . no, they were gone once the falcon was, regardless of local manufacturing
will the swinging buyer be disaffected by ford closing their manufacturing plant . . . no, they were always going for their perceived best value at the time

[prydey]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

will ford fans be disaffected by ford closing their manufacturing plant . . . no, they bleed blue

some people criticize blind loyalty, but as long as i'm happy with the cars i buy, does it matter if there might be a better product out there? not to me!

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by prydey

so you think an enthusiast forum is an accurate snapshot of the real world? how many falcon buyers (new) are on here? what percentage of new falcon buyers are forum members who actually contribute their experience to the forum? if someone surveyed 1%of the population and used those results as conclusive evidence, they would be laughed at, and yet on here, there is always the same people who bag ford at every opportunity who think a small enthusiast forum is an accurate snapshot of the real world.

do yourself a favour and look up the sales graphs that russell so kindly does. you will find the trend in the 2 large cars to be pretty much the same. the boss of that 'other' company has also been quite vocal lately regarding sustainable production in this country, so i'm not sure how anyone can point the finger at falcon. perhaps ford don't like just surviving using a fair portion of govt funds.

as for the other forum cheap shot, its the same as your opinion on most other things. you only really know your own little snapshot but think you can speak for everyone.

Agreed, people make the mistake of thinking that enthusiasts are the norm and represent the entire market. Most Falcon buys dont give 2 ***** about performance or brand or anything else, its just a car they buy, in what is now a very large market place.

Originally Posted by mcnews

Piles of crap was overstating it but at the end of the day Territory still handles better than X5 on Aussie roads. No doubt about it.

What constitutes an Aussie road though, the few times I've been in a X5 they've been fine on Aussie roads. Most people would be lucky to see a dirt road once a year. Australia's big cities thesedays.

[ronnyBB]

XE and older are the only Australian Fords i care about so the announcement means nothing to me
Passenger cars are all generic these days anyway

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by prydey

some people criticize blind loyalty, but as long as i'm happy with the cars i buy, does it matter if there might be a better product out there? not to me!

Word. I was asked the other day to justify why Dave and I drive and buy Ford's. As a mechanic/engineer household we can rattle off a tonne of reasons why, but it boils down to the fact we're happy with the cars. That wasn't good enough, and criticism of Ford's followed.
Asked them why they buy and drive a Subaru. Oddly the same response we gave about our cars. I then pointed out how much money she'd just spent on a head gasket replacement. And how little money we spend on our cars to keep them running. Finally pointed out if she's happy with her car that's fine, but she needs to realise we're happy with ours and she needed to accept that.

[Kable72]

How much does an X5 cost compared to a territory though? Genuine question, I don't know lol

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

having read through this thread the answer is exactly the same as i thought it would be, before i started reading

will ford fans be disaffected by ford closing their manufacturing plant . . . no, they bleed blue
will falcon fans be disaffected by ford closing their manufacturing plant . . . no, they were gone once the falcon was, regardless of local manufacturing
will the swinging buyer be disaffected by ford closing their manufacturing plant . . . no, they were always going for their perceived best value at the time

I dont think you are completely right.
I am a Falcon fan (and capri, customline, escort, and sierra), but not the current crop of non-falcon cars on the showroom floor. Just been through the process of deciding what to replace my BF xr6t with - it;s done 200,000km. It is my third xr6t.
So i added up all of the options, and in the end i am cranky with ford for the loss of one of their better cars, so i have signed up for a clubsport. I will also probably continue with the red brand for now too. Sorry Ford, you lost me as a customer.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Kable72

How much does an X5 cost compared to a territory though? Genuine question, I don't know lol

About $150k brand new...and people blame imports for stealing away Aussie buyers...