![]() |
|
![]() |
#91 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 990
|
Quote:
Hell I even had a ball joint go in my HX Holden in 1984 it had striped the thread and a mate was driving it at the time. a cheap quality one I would think it was. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#92 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 990
|
Quote:
The Torino was made for Yanks coil rear springs even on the ute. As for long over hang the USA Falcon 1959 1960 on that we got had more rear over hang, look at them USA ute it's totally different with long doors our XK-L-M-P are short and with shorter over hang tail. The station wagon of our XR-T-W-Y type of Falcon is totally different to the USA ones as they are long and even have the door that opens from the side, like we could option on the XA-X-C. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#93 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 990
|
Quote:
Like with music all to do with the Song get a cut with every sale. Some threatened the world bank and the banks got a PM to deal with that kicking off WW2 but it was all a cunning plot as all leaders were in on it to get markets they wanted. I have seen a photo of drawings in around about the 1968-9 of our VH Valiant and XA Falcon and HQ Holden in the same room in the USA with the same styling people working on them all and it makes sense that only the top design people work on such things, it's not just a small one brand group in a company as one would think, but the people working on such don't go telling anyone what they are doing or they would never work again in such a industry. It's the same with Engines one group do the major work in casting designs, The paper work designs are sent to this mob who work out how to cast the blocks, they work out how best to set the tooling up, get it all to a point of perfection and then give all the tooling to the company's to set off doing it themselves. The first Holden grey motors do not have Holden cast on them, they have CWC. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#94 | ||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
|
Wow.... not sure if you guys are serious or having a little troll....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#95 | |||
Former BTIKD
![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,197
|
Quote:
Ford then had to pay this person royalties for every car sold worldwide? ![]()
__________________
Dying at your job is natures way of saying that you're in the wrong line of work.
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#96 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,440
|
Quote:
What! You have seriously never heard of the Pininfarina Falcon. ![]() ![]() Cheers Mick |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#97 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: A.C.T
Posts: 1,569
|
[QUOTE=mick taylor;6074007]It's about that someone owns the rights to things, even the name Falcon Cortina etc all have someone who owns the rights to such and every one made they get their cut.
Like with music all to do with the Song get a cut with every sale. Ford(“Motor Co.”) “own” the rights to the name,period! (Not one individual)Chrysler corporation also where interested in using it(they did have Chrysler Falcon around 1950(fact)Ford decided on the name for their upcoming compact sedan,Ford beat Chrysler (by about twenty mins) to register the name with the Automobile Manufacturers association.Think it was around 1958-59.Cheers ![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#98 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,823
|
I wonder how long they get to keep the name if its not being used or do they keep it for as long as they are in business? Case point the studebaker landcruiser.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#99 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: A.C.T
Posts: 1,569
|
[QUOTE=Sar4890;6074064]I wonder how long they get to keep the name if its not being used or do they keep it for as long as they are in business? Case point the studebaker landcruiser.[/
I am pretty sure if they own the rights to the name,they keep it forever(happy to stand corrected.)Cheers ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#100 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,530
|
Wow, too many Oz-day drinks for some.... royalties for car names..... sheesh, it's like the early dot-com days all over again....
![]() Quote:
And what is reserved in one country, doesn't necessarily stop other companies, in other countries, from using that same trademark, on something completely different. However, most global corporates will register trademarks in all markets where they sell vehicles, to protect their IP & names - like FCA did with the Hellcat, Demon & Trackhawk names being registered in Oz, despite little chance of those models being sold here. Ford recently faced this trademark issue with the Edge nameplate for Australia. Toyota Australia have it reserved (since the early 2000s from memory) but still had rights to it unless someone challenges/opposes it. In this case Ford wanted the Edge name, so they opposed it, and it was over to Toyota to either relinquish, or renew. They renewed, and they have something like 5 years now to "use it or lose it" (cue a special edition Corolla Edge being released in time for EOFYS ....) If you have a look at section 92 of the Trademarks act, you can see it's only 3 years for most trademarks: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017C00046 However, motor vehicles are treated differently, as they come under class 12, and the time limits are longer. But basically if nobody challenges it, they have it for life by default. But once challenged, they are given the opportunity to renew the registration, and have a time limit to "use it or lose it" |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#101 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
|
Winnebago is a good example of a name.
The parent company chose to stop lending their name to conversions outside the US leaving Winnebago Aust in limbo. I recall they have only just won the right to re use the name but are now sticking with AVIDA.
__________________
heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#102 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: melbourne
Posts: 3,204
|
Quote:
62.1/2 model year ford infact ford australia were so keen to distance themselves from the XK models weakness the XL falcon was released in australia a few months before itwas relased in the USA . in america the XK sedan roof /c pilars was called the round body - the XL had the thunderbird C pillars https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.a...ford_falcon_xl xk C pillar: ![]() XL C pillar: ![]() T Quote:
Last edited by 9triton; 27-01-2018 at 11:39 PM. |
||||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#103 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,823
|
Thanks for the info 9triton I'm going to have a look for 1962 1/2 pics now. So is it from the xm on that we started adding our touches to the falcons for Australia?
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#104 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Tablelands. NSW
Posts: 894
|
The XL had a more aggressive stainless steel grille than the American version which had a softer, more rounded, anodised aluminium grille
__________________
Don't try and teach a pig to sing, it just wastes your time and annoys the pig.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#105 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 990
|
Quote:
Holden does not or did not own names like Statesman or the name Caprice, Kingswood as such names are on other Cars. Our HQ Statesman was never a Holden Statesman ? it was never called that till the VQ Commodore Statesman that it became a Holden Statesman, as there was a HQ-J Chevrolet Statesman we made as well that was exported to South Africa. Brougham is one that Ford has as well, so may not of owned it. I think with S and X PACK and SL, SL/E as such do not have to be payed and with the last Falcons they cut Fairmont out to cut cost maybe $20 to $200 ? I am saying that Company's can not just name anything they want. Many times they have to go out side the Company and they do on most things, even most parts are not made by Ford it's self but other company's are contracted to make the parts, if Ford were to make every part they could not compete at all and the unions would destroy such as well. With every type of part has a type of Pat on it. GM and Ford has not made a total Engine in years it's all another company's that do all that, look at the gearbox or the diff's, just here in Aus B/W did all the Fords and Holden's from the VL on, a Holden mate truly claimed that the diffs and gearbox made at B/W were much better quality in the Holden's than the Fords ![]() ![]() ![]() even the Nissan 3.0L in the VL commodore or the V6 or GEN 3 V8 on is not a Chev or made by GM, do you see GM cast on it any where ? 2 company's cast or make them and they make Fords engines as well, you can see the brand mark cast on them. Holden may of assembled the Alloytec V6 and the heads were cast here but not one engine block. Holden once had Holden cast on the block and head on the red motors but that stoped about 1973 I think, maybe because our 308 was also sold as a Chevrolet in South Africa. I knew the bloke who owned all the Royalties rights in Australia to every BMC car truck etc sold here and it's not like he payed $2 for it, as such would be in the millions to deal with and I believe he had to market the brand etc so he was not just some dumb schmuck who won the lottery. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#106 | ||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
|
(insert facepalm here)
__________________
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
3 users like this post: |
![]() |
#107 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,530
|
Oh dear. Someone's really been on the grass.....
Last time I looked at a Gen3 block it had a bowtie & GM cast into it.... V6s were cast in Port Melbourne, and machined there too. Sure, some parts were buy-in, but a huge proportion of that motor was cast & machined in Australia by HEC. Likewise Ford with the I6 - it has always been cast, machined & assembled by Ford Geelong. With the exception of some smaller ancillary parts (I worked for the company in the 90s who did the timing covers, rocker supports, thermostat housings & oil pump housings for the 4.0L from EB-EL, and partly into AU (WR2A). But again, made in Oz, by a subcontractor, but still assembled by Ford in Geelong. And lets not forget Salisbury diffs made in SA for many years prior to B/W diffs (which Holden only started using in '85), GM Philippes making gearboxes entiirely in-house, trimatics, Aussie 4-speeds..... If you were truly knowledgable you would have called it a GM Statesman, as that's what the HQ-HZ was actually called. I'm not even going to bother with the names thing - it's been covered by several posters who actually have half a clue about the business world, trademarks, and the car industry. Something you seem to severely lack. Either that or you believe all the crap that the local barfly spins..... |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
3 users like this post: |
![]() |
#108 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 990
|
You cant just put a name on something or you will get sued big dollars, not even a coffee shop and you can't just make anything you want and sell it.
The law is full of things that your average Joe Blow just could never understand. People think that the HQ Statesman is a Holden, well you would think that it was but in fact it's not by Law. The HQ Belmont Kingswood Premier are Holden's, they are called Holden Belmont, Holden Kingswood, Holden Premier, but never is it called a HQ Holden Statesman. It's a HQ Statesman made by Holden, as it is a Statesman made by Holden. but was also sold as Statesman Chevrolet in South Africa. I think there is a Chevrolet Statesman in USA but it's not our Aussie car at all. Our 1990's VQ is a Holden Statesman and it's not called a Commodore. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#109 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,530
|
Quote:
Are you serious, or actually taking the pi$$? Surely you don't believe this drivel? Or maybe you do.... It's widely known, and printed in numerous history books, that Fairlane was named after one of Ford's own estate/ranch properties of the same name. No dope-smoking "dude" came up with that one. And Ford have a team of legal people on staff, who trademark each & every name, in all the relevant markets. GT-F anyone? XR6 Sprint? Yep, all trademarked in Oz, by Ford's legal team. There's no less that 5 active XR6 trademarks owned by Ford: https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr.../1684933?q=XR6 https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr.../1684932?q=XR6 https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr...w/966789?q=XR6 https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr...w/944014?q=XR6 https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr...w/836133?q=XR6 Quote:
And just so you can see I'm not actually talking our of my butt-hole like you are, here's the link to it: https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr...58?q=Kingswood And would you look at that: https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr...0273?q=Caprice https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr...7824?q=Caprice And while I'm on a roll: https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr...442?q=Fairlane 2 that could have been - a Fairlane G6 & G8: https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr...680?q=Fairlane https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr...682?q=Fairlane And here's one for you. Did that same "dude" come up with Commodore when Holden wanted a name in 1978? GM had already trademarked it 12 years earlier: https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/tr...36?q=Commodore Many car companies have a bank of trademarked names to choose from too. And when it has the car company's name as the owner, you bet your *** they own it. Nobody would be paid royalties unless they owned the public trademark. |
||||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#110 | |||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
4 users like this post: |
![]() |
#111 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 990
|
Quote:
It's only a forum you know and unless someone is stating the facts in the Law and you will not get that info will you. Fact is it's not a GM because it is in fact a GM-H ! GM is a lot of Brands and never called GM on it's own ever. Salisbury Diff is a design Banjo is also a design a in house Holden thing just as the Aussie manual box were and the Tri-matic You are correct about what you have said about our Ford 6, but from the alloy heads on, this was imported and the DOHC the cams come from China as I was informed. I have never seen a bowtie on the Alloy V8's called Gen3 block or heads. The Holden V6 Alloytec block was never cast hear at all, they tried but failed and cost that company Millions and it's not the HEC company at all but they did cast the heads and Holden did machine the things and put then together. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#112 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,530
|
Keep on digging..... you're half way to China already.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
3 users like this post: |
![]() |
#113 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 990
|
Quote:
Of cause they own it or another does in some cases. Last edited by mick taylor; 28-01-2018 at 04:13 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#114 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 990
|
In 2005 Holden was left without a engine block supplier.
The company that was to make them is the ION Group and we got the blocks from Mexico and others maybe. ION cast the heads here. I don't know if we in Aus cast the blocks for our V6 in the VN to VY. Most people think casting a engine block a simple thing to do from scratch ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#115 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 990
|
Quote:
I call them Holden Statesman's, because I thought they were, until I found out that that's not what they truly are called by Holden, you will not see in the Brochures Holden Statesman in a HQ. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#116 | |||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,530
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hate to break it to you, but a vehicle name IS at TRADEMARK. (Did I really just have to explain that?) Contradictions, and convenient omissions (about trademarks, and this "dude" you claim came up with all these names and profits from them) - are always good clues to identify somebody who has little clue about reality. I think your local bar misses you & needs propping up again: ![]() |
|||||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#117 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: A.C.T
Posts: 1,569
|
@Commodore Nut.The Commodore name first came into use in 1967,when Opel used it, & as we all know continued with the Commodore lineage in Australia.In saying that are we not getting a bit off topic now? Think it’s time to move on away from Holden.Cheers
![]() ![]() Last edited by hackney; 28-01-2018 at 06:03 PM. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#118 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,530
|
I kept trying to steer it back to Ford - see my other trademark links, but it kept being dragged off by a beligerant....
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#120 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 571
|
I'm wondering, if Mick Taylor is the " Hulk" in disguise.
![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
3 users like this post: |