A Badge Engineered XR8?

[2011G6E]

I wondered why they did away with the XR8.
But, well, Ford has been doing funny things with well known and established name plates recently...they do away with the perfectly good and immediately publically identifiable "Fairmont" and "Fairmont Ghia" names and replace it with the meaningless "G6" and "G6E", but it does give owners the opportunity to start conversations with people when they are asked what car they drive, and have to explain that a "G6" is a Ford...a Falcon...a prestige one...you know...?

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

Probably because the turbo was faster and shouldn't have been, the 5.4 should have been better but wasn't

I dont really agree with that. Theres no shame in having a naturally aspirated 5.4L engine slower than a turbo 4L engine, i think its just bragging rights and market perceptions that should have kept the XR8 ahead. Technically though i think it was always going to be slower whilst both models were given a fair chance.

[BENSFPV]

I think the real problem here is that Ford are not informing customers of there intent with the XR8. Is it continuing or have they discontinued it ? Just tell us whats happening so I as one of many customers can make a decision to hold off for a XR8 or go and buy a Holden SSV or maybe HSV Maloo. Yes I have bought an XR8 in the last 10 years and also a FPV Super Pursuit but Ford & FPV in their wisdom have stopped making both!! just when I was looking to purchase. No I will not buy a XR6 Turbo I want a V8 but not a FPV GS at those prices with stuff all features. Not good enough Ford and FPV. Now Im having to look at Holden and HSV Maloo.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by BENSFPV

I think the real problem here is that Ford are not informing customers of there intent with the XR8. Is it continuing or have they discontinued it ? Just tell us whats happening so I as one of many customers can make a decision to hold off for a XR8 or go and buy a Holden SSV or maybe HSV Maloo. Yes I have bought an XR8 in the last 10 years and also a FPV Super Pursuit but Ford & FPV in their wisdom have stopped making both!! just when I was looking to purchase. No I will not buy a XR6 Turbo I want a V8 but not a FPV GS at those prices with stuff all features. Not good enough Ford and FPV. Now Im having to look at Holden and HSV Maloo.

Well apparently you are the customer that doesn't exist hence their lack of action or communication.

[BENSFPV]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Well apparently you are the customer that doesn't exist hence their lack of action or communication.

Yep and just like in the 1980's when Ford discontinued the V8 and Holdens V8 fan base grew it seems Ford is helping Holden again by not making cars that people want and Holdens sales & HSV get bigger & bigger and then they can offer more options for their customers. Wake up Ford & FPV you need customers to survive and if you dont make cars they will buy you cannot survive hence why they are struggling.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by CAT600

NA XR8 wont happen, so I got an idea.

Buy a GS. Pull the engine, I will give you 12K personally if you cant get an offer higher than that.... I believe you would get around 14K for it in the open market.

Buy the N/A Coyote engine as is for $6500 off Ebay, it will owe you under 10K landed.... if you want I can help you organise the 444hp BOSS 302R crate engine for an extra 5K on top of the 412hp Coyote price.

Install and tune, your "NA" GS will actually come in about halfway between the old XR8's price and what you paid for the GS (or about the same cost with the BOSS 302R engine).

I'm not being facetious... the N/A XR8 makes no business sence at all. The DSC and engine calibrations alone would outstrip the first 24 months profit made.

Daniel

Surely the na 5.0 had a wider potential for models/variation, it also exists in a larger part of the market. Prodrive and ford have gone out on a limb here when you look at fpv's annual v8 sales.

As for swapping engines etc, that's all well and good until you look back and realize you just spent $50k on a car with no warranty. If I was in a different part of my life then yeah it would not be a problem, but for most that's to much of a gamble.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by BENSFPV

I think the real problem here is that Ford are not informing customers of there intent with the XR8. Is it continuing or have they discontinued it ? Just tell us whats happening so I as one of many customers can make a decision to hold off for a XR8 or go and buy a Holden SSV or maybe HSV Maloo. Yes I have bought an XR8 in the last 10 years and also a FPV Super Pursuit but Ford & FPV in their wisdom have stopped making both!! just when I was looking to purchase. No I will not buy a XR6 Turbo I want a V8 but not a FPV GS at those prices with stuff all features. Not good enough Ford and FPV. Now Im having to look at Holden and HSV Maloo.

You do raise good points, and I do agree with the thought of being unable to justify a GS based on lack of specs at that price-point, when all you really want is a Ford V8

..... If the GS sedan/ute came with 4 Piston Brembo's/328mm single slider at the rear and the GT copped the 4 pistons at the rear as a differential "stepping stone" to 6 Pot GT-P greatness, would that be a factor that would generate sales though?

For me, I bought a 2009 FG XR8 with GS-sized brakes, modest exterior styling cues and cloth seats on purpose..... adding my own brakes and keeping the exterior subtle were an advantage to me and the cloth seats are actually nicer to sit in, lower and more supported than leather..... the GS is a good package bang for buck but I guess there are always two things you can count on:

People that want a Ford V8 in the 46-50K price bracket....
People that want an FPV to not feel like an XR8.

I dont think Ford can fix both issues, but I believe one needs addressing soon.

Daniel

[Polyal]

Yeap spot on dan, both cars are in limbo.

my perfect xr8 would be the na 5.0, manual, cloth seats and some brembo option like the redline thing on the ss.

Just bare bones v8 fun.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Surely the na 5.0 had a wider potential for models/variation, it also exists in a larger part of the market. Prodrive and ford have gone out on a limb here when you look at fpv's annual v8 sales.

As for swapping engines etc, that's all well and good until you look back and realize you just spent $50k on a car with no warranty. If I was in a different part of my life then yeah it would not be a problem, but for most that's to much of a gamble.

Perhaps, but the numbers always come back the same.... a NA Coyote in Aus will not make 300kw on paper with our 91 octane fuel, our noise regs are tighter than the US standards and that kills power on an NA car as well.

There is still a whack of base money to do the engineering, calibration and sign-off on another model when there is such a significant change such as "removing a blower".... I just dont see it getting off the ground from the manufacturers amortisation POV...... maybe its one of those transactions where its potentially a good deal for the buyer but not the seller

The aim now is for Prodrive/FPV to recover the R and D on the costs associated with the blown Miami..... if it could be proven that Ford and XR8 badges could be affixed to the 2012 GS car (as it stands right now), drop the price to 53,990 and then give the FPV GS a minor power rise, slight brake upgrade and an interior ICC lift in spec with a prise rise to 59,999 (in other words split the difference) then maybe the XR8 could return, but in NA form?..... I just cant see it.

Daniel

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENSFPV

Ford is helping Holden again by not making cars that people want

not really. if people did want them, they would buy them and there wouldn't be a case for not making them. ford only discontinue models that don't sell, or sell in such small numbers it makes it non viable.

they are in the business of making cars and trying to make a profit doing so.

[BENSFPV]

Originally Posted by CAT600

People that want a Ford V8 in the 46-50K price bracket....
People that want an FPV to not feel like an XR8.

I dont think Ford can fix both issues, but I believe one needs addressing soon.

Daniel

Yes and I think that has answered the problems for both , Ford need the XR8 with like Holden SSV Redline edition a better braking option for customers who want them. And FPV dont need the GS they need cars that dont feel like an XR8 that people will pay more for because they are better equipped. FPV buyers are like HSV buyers we dont want to have poverty packs we are paying more for models that look and drive and feel better.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by prydey

not really. if people did want them, they would buy them and there wouldn't be a case for not making them. ford only discontinue models that don't sell, or sell in such small numbers it makes it non viable.

they are in the business of making cars and trying to make a profit doing so.

I can't believe your serious....look at recent events.

Wagon - why would someone buy fords au back end in 2010 over the sports wagon?

Lwb - remember that extended falcon xt...had nothing other than the zf gearbox later in life over gms lwb

V8 - until Miami gm had the wood on ford, in every variation. Yes the ford was more polished but people are buy the cars for the engine!

So why should we buy these models again?

[BENSFPV]

Exactly Fords lack of wisdom of the market the most people excluding the brand loyalists will not buy cars that are not better than the opposition.

eg: Holden sportwagon fantastic looking wagon yep sure not much boot space but good looking car with different options Calais V6 V8 or SSV and they sell heaps of them.

Fords equivalent Mondeo yep more boot space and features but old grandma engines cant see young familes wanting to buy this and still feel cool. Then you have the Territory which is a SUV which to me is a different market all together.

Make cars that look good that people want at the right price its that simple and they will sell.

[BA GT-HO]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I'm sorry but I am almost offended by your continual high horse attitude when it comes to vehicle ownership and being able to have an opinion.

+1

People are allowed to have different opinions, there is no real need to try and shoot them down everytime now matter how good your arguement seems.

For me GS means nothing. I have grown up with and owned XR8s and even the opposite end of the spectrum the XR6T. I would prefer a plain XR8 than a GS that to me just means nothing emotionally.

Plus the GS looks like a cheap bogan mobile with the stripes. But that is just me. I am sure you can delete them.

[pottery beige]

as my nana would say.. i've never seen such a bunch of nanas..... move on times have changed if you want an XR8 go buy a GS ffs it even comes with a blower.......

[BENSFPV]

We cant move on yet until Ford officially tell the customers thats right the people that keep them in business that the XR8 is no more. And so far the way Fords decision making is going Im sorry to say its only a matter of time before the Ford Falcon will be going with the times.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENSFPV

We cant move on yet until Ford officially tell the customers thats right the people that keep them in business that the XR8 is no more. And so far the way Fords decision making is going Im sorry to say its only a matter of time before the Ford Falcon will be going with the times.

You mean the 750 odd customers in 2009 and the 300 odd in 2010?

IIRC, it was FPV's last minute decision to include the GS that left Ford with no XR8,
read into that what you will.......

[BENSFPV]

Yes 2009 & 2010 sales with an ageing 5.4L V8 that was a fair bit slower than the 5.7L V8 Holden was offering leaving most V8 buyers no choice but to buy a Holden. In Australia for V8 buyers its about pub bragging rights and as far as the two engines were concerned Holden were the clear winner and Im saying this even though I bought a 5.4L Fpv Super Pursuit. Also 2010 sales are had to loom at due to most people knowing there was a 5.0L engine coming soon so noone wanted to buy the 5.4L knowing they were about to be obsolete. I can easily bet that if there was a XR8 with a 5.0L in 2011 the sales figures would be alot better so those sales figures are not relevant unless you dont have confidence in your engine, and its completely obvious to all that the 5.0L is a cracker compared to the 5.7L Holden is offering.

[flappist]

I need to really get something clear:

Are you all sooking over the BADGE?

Or sooking over the PRICE?

Or sooking over them not spending $millions developing a special engine for a very low volume vehicle that hardly anyone buys anymore?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Well apparently you are the customer that doesn't exist hence their lack of action or communication.

You mean like the customer they lost by not selling the F6E in 2008? Me.

Well they eventually must have worked out what a HUGE mistake that was and released the F6E to the millions of customers just like me who really wanted to buy one.

After all, I wanted one so everyone else must want one?

And sales of the F6E have been.........

The only possible difference between that and this is that I would have ACTUALLY BOUGHT ONE with real money then and there.

[nstg8a]

did sportwagon create that many extra sales for holden? or did it cannibalise sedan sales?

i can understand some people jumping ship to get what is a very smart looking wagon, but not as many as you see on the roads.

certainly havent seen one taxi sportwagon yet. but theres plenty of well used bf wagons still in use.

[BENSFPV]

Originally Posted by flappist

Or sooking over them not spending $millions developing a special engine for a very low volume vehicle that hardly anyone buys anymore?

How can it be a low volume selling vehicle if it has not been developed yet. I think what you are saying is that Ford are scared to take a risk to develop a high selling vehicle. Every new engine developed is a risk but it can come off very sucessfully. Ford need to forget about the old engine V8 sales as it wasnt that good an engine compared to the 5.7L or the XR6 Turbo.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by flappist

I need to really get something clear:

Are you all sooking over the BADGE?

Or sooking over the PRICE?

Or sooking over them not spending $millions developing a special engine for a very low volume vehicle that hardly anyone buys anymore?

No one is sooking. The issues are

1. The GS has no place in FPV
2. The XR8 is being sold under the FPV brand as a GS
3. The XR8 should have been sold between $46-$50k

FPV shot Ford in the foot by selling the XR8 as a GS, then FPV shot themselves in the foot by pricing the GS as it current stands, notwithstanding it's very low equipment and trim specification. The other issue for FPV is in general the pricing of their product is too high.

As I mentioned earlier I doubt we will be discussing this in the future as based on current sales I doubt FPV will be around to celebrate a 10th anniversary FPV.

Ford are wise to move on from the XR8 and focus it's attention on the EB4 and LI-LPG Falcon and TD Territory. I wouldn't want to cost share an engine development program with a partner that deliberately tried to damage sales.

[Chilliman]

I'm going to be controversial here

I'll start by saying Ford (Australia) should never have dropped the V8, however having dropped the V8, they should have never brought it back and stuck to the original plan of turbo-charging the six back in the EA/EB days!

It would have given Ford immediate performance bragging rights over Holden and its 5-litre V8 and blunted the V8-momentum built-up by the GENIII before it was even released - by then we would have had the best part of a decade of Falcon turbo sixes pummeling Holden V8s....and it may have discouraged a generation of performance enthusiasts from the cult-car of the 90's; the Subaru WRX!

The GT should have been left in the past and the XR8 never born.........OK flame suit on

[1TUFFUTE]

itd be pretty simple for ford to fix the whole problem with the series 2 this year. Simply give the xr8 smaller whells ..no fancy options and your done....give the GS some fancy stuff and its allll sorted.THEY WILLS ELL WITH THAT ENGINE IF THEY PACKAGE THEM HALF DECENT.

[BA GT-HO]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

No one is sooking. The issues are

1. The GS has no place in FPV
2. The XR8 is being sold under the FPV brand as a GS
3. The XR8 should have been sold between $46-$50k

Spot on.

[Luke Plaizier]

As Obi Wan Kenobi's cousin Far once said, Who is the greater Sook? The Sook, or the Sook who follows him?

I personally am sooking about the badge. Others are sooking that the XR8 becoming an FPV has made it hard for those in country australia to buy one. The price sooking has been added for good measure.

Of course, sooking about sooks is a valiant and noble past time.


Lukeyson

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

1. The GS has no place in FPV
2. The XR8 is being sold under the FPV brand as a GS
3. The XR8 should have been sold between $46-$50k

Thanks for clarifying that - it is correct in my opinion.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

As Obi Wan Kenobi's cousin Far once said, Who is the greater Sook? The Sook, or the Sook who follows him?

I personally am sooking about the badge. Others are sooking that the XR8 becoming an FPV has made it hard for those in country australia to buy one. The price sooking has been added for good measure.

Of course, sooking about sooks is a valiant and noble past time.


Lukeyson

GOLD!!!!

[Bossxr8]

I wish they would, as employee discount is 21% on XR's, but only 14% on FPV's.

Would make a Miami powered Falcon a hell of a lot cheaper for me.