Will Territory become Fords No1 local?

[TMC]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If you ever want to know stuff like this, check out Russell's neat Tech resources section on the tabs above this thread.

Last year, sales of Turbo I-6 was like this:
XR6T 1,034
XR6 Ute 729
G6ET 535
FPV 361

While I-6 turbo is the V8 replacement, it's not really bringing in as many sales as expected.
maybe it's just a sign of the changing times where people will not accept that type of fuel consumption.

I think what killed the Turbo Territory is that most people who would have liked a Turbo Territory (those who even knew it existed) thought you needed to buy the Ghia version to get it. I was under that impression for ages. Unfortunately I couldn't afford one, but it would have been my "weapon of choice" if I could have afforded it, without hesitation.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Falcon's future now lies squarely in the hands of fleet managers, not the few monthly retail sales...
If fleets choose to buy large mid sized cars instead of Falcon and Commodore,
they realize an immediate savings in fully maintained leasing contracts....

Let's hope Ford can sway those managers back to the fold with a better product..

Sad to say, but, most fleet managers checked out long ago on the Falcon, closely followed by the user choosers. When I had the G6E, the fleet list price between that and a Calais was around $1K per annum. It was almost $2K per annum between the G6E and the equivalent Aurion. Most user choosers - those that had not already made the switch to an AWD or 4WD – shrugged the shoulders and went Holden or Toyota. Ford was not giving as generous fleet discounts allegedly to keep the resale value up. Well, Falcon resale values have tanked and the loyal Falcon purchasers were hit twice. (To rub salt in, my Ford dealer experience was such that I mentally gave them the finger when I last drove out of their yard …) Mazda does a similar thing with pricing, but Mazda can get away with it because of the way they look after their customers.

It just makes more financial sense for the fleets to purchase a small car (save capital cost), run a small car (save fuel costs), and then sell it (at a better return than a large car). Across a medium size fleet of, say 100 cars, a $500 saving per vehicle per annum for choosing a small vehicle is serious money. Considering the way Ford has treated the fleet market the past five years, the fleet managers owe Ford nothing.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by whynot

Well, Falcon resale values have tanked

got any evidence? i reckon resales are actually better than ever for falcon.

not interested on what redbook says as that is based on the RRP, not the actual sale price. if you look at the actual sale price, and what a 3yr old is fetching, resale is not bad. certainly no worse than previous models.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by prydey

got any evidence? i reckon resales are actually better than ever for falcon.

not interested on what redbook says as that is based on the RRP, not the actual sale price. if you look at the actual sale price, and what a 3yr old is fetching, resale is not bad. certainly no worse than previous models.

The only evidence that I have is I have seen the purchase and sell price of the remaining few Falcons in the fleet. Admittedly, the sample size is small. Mine was the second last Falcon in the fleet Presently, there are no Falcons in the fleet. If that is not a sobering thought for the Falcon lovers, I don’t know what is.

The person who picked it up got a bargain. Not only was the price depressed, but it had two years of persistence with Ford to fix up all of the issues (steering rack, leaking fuel tanks, ICC that had issues, etc). I think I had only just finished ironing out the bugs just before the G6E was sold.

But, I digress from the OP. The Territory is doing well and Ford seems to be able to charge a decent retail price for it. I am already standing in the queue for Territory diesel in a few months. If they are smart (like don’t sell me a dud and have a facelift ready), I’ll be back in 2014 for another one.

[FPV GTHO]

10 years ago resale was somewhere around 50% after 3 years. I paid only $11k though for my 07 BF2 at the end of '10. I think there's definitely been a drop across the b series from launch but my gains FG would've made would've been fighting to return to AU levels despite selling considerably less.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by whynot

Sad to say, but, most fleet managers checked out long ago on the Falcon, closely followed by the user choosers. When I had the G6E, the fleet list price between that and a Calais was around $1K per annum. It was almost $2K per annum between the G6E and the equivalent Aurion. Most user choosers - those that had not already made the switch to an AWD or 4WD – shrugged the shoulders and went Holden or Toyota. Ford was not giving as generous fleet discounts allegedly to keep the resale value up. Well, Falcon resale values have tanked and the loyal Falcon purchasers were hit twice. (To rub salt in, my Ford dealer experience was such that I mentally gave them the finger when I last drove out of their yard …) Mazda does a similar thing with pricing, but Mazda can get away with it because of the way they look after their customers.

It just makes more financial sense for the fleets to purchase a small car (save capital cost), run a small car (save fuel costs), and then sell it (at a better return than a large car). Across a medium size fleet of, say 100 cars, a $500 saving per vehicle per annum for choosing a small vehicle is serious money. Considering the way Ford has treated the fleet market the past five years, the fleet managers owe Ford nothing.

While I don't dispute any of what you say, I believe the market is much more forgiving
as an example , the diesel Territory was something well known as lacking and
once Ford delivered, buyers returned. Similarly, the lack of LPG has been a sore
point with fleets and as such, I expect fleet sales will come back but not in the early months.

While Territory has strong forward orders, it can carry Falcon until fleet sales begin returning.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I expect fleet sales will come back but not in the early months.

While Territory has strong forward orders, it can carry Falcon until fleet sales begin returning.

i would imagine fleets have to wait for 12 months or 2 years (possibly 3 in some cases) before they are ready for their next order. its not like they can just go out and purchase ecoLPi as soon as it hits the market. if they went down a different path while ford had a gap in proceedings, then they have to wait for that period to expire.

this is just what happens when you break continuity of a product. you force customers to go elsewhere and then have to wait for them to come back when they are ready.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

i would imagine fleets have to wait for 12 months or 2 years (possibly 3 in some cases) before they are ready for their next order. its not like they can just go out and purchase ecoLPi as soon as it hits the market. if they went down a different path while ford had a gap in proceedings, then they have to wait for that period to expire.

this is just what happens when you break continuity of a product. you force customers to go elsewhere and then have to wait for them to come back when they are ready.

That 18 months gap between E-gas and EcoLPI has really thrown fleet managers for a loop
and I'd expect that they have moved onto other products, products that may or may not be better..

[prydey]

i would imagine they are working hard to win those customers back though.

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Nic85

You guys comparing fuel economy figures on the Territory; I'm sorry, but you're delirious. Even a base model petrol Territory will not get anywhere near the claimed 10.6L/100km in the real world. I'd love for some Territory owners on here to post up and prove me wrong, but my sisters 2005 RWD Ghia averages around 16L/100km in combined driving. It will not go below 10L/100km on the highway, so how it'd ever average 10.6 is beyond me.

OK, 2007 AWD 4.0 inline 6 with 6 speed ZF
Town and country use (we are 20km out of town, still have to drive through it once there in stop-start) 11.5 -13.5L/100km, and 13.5 only when very foot heavy
Highway 10.5L/100km (even got the magic 9.5 once, but we have roof racks, weathershields, bonnet protectors, headlight protectors all hindering the slip through the air and 7 seater, AWD and heavy duty tow adding weight)
I got a 17.5L/100km once, that was towing a 1600kg van and revving really hard around the hills of Cradle Mountain through Queenstown and Strahan. The Territory consumption on petrol towed equivalent to a 4.0 2H Toyota diesel in a 60 series, with twice the power; very surprising.
To consistently get 16's in regular driving I'd need shoes made of brick.

It's a classy drivetrain and I'm sure a RWD with the refined petrol motor could better this.