Help needed with a fiesta bought at a dealership - Page 4

jeff_o · 13-06-2013, 10:49 AM

hi just wanna update everyone. i was finally able to get hold of kurt last tuesday after the long weekend. so i faxed him my letter last week tuesday and it seems like the manager was able to receive that letter as well. Kurt said the manager (Alan) wants to speak to me, but he is on leave until today. so tomorrow i will call up Alan, but it seems like they want me to drop by their place which is a hassle as i don't have a car and they're quite far. i dunno if they have any tricks up their sleeves or they force me to do this/that when i go to their place.

"Would there be a time limit imposed on the deposit to close the deal? Sitting it out may caus the deal to be void after x weeks, forfeiting the deposit. " - i was also thinking about the same thing... if they are trying to put delaying tactics to expire a time limit to forfeit the deposit. but i have been contacting them like everyday since last week.

KIWI-1 · 13-06-2013, 10:57 AM

Seems to be good news. You've sat it out for a few days and now they wish to meet with you. Keep in mind that at the end of the day they want a sale without grief, you want a car without grief.

You may be able to get them to come to you?

No doubt there is a time limit but it would be in the contract. I wouldn't be sweating about it unless you are unable to sort things out when you meet them.

deesun · 13-06-2013, 11:13 AM

They have a fax so they can send you a copy of the contract.

jeff_o · 13-06-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deesun

They have a fax so they can send you a copy of the contract.

i asked them to email me a copy of the contract, they said they don't email. i have to go to them to see the contract which i dont think exist. i did not sign any contract at all. i will find out tom or saturday. yeah hopefully things work out. my 10 conditions on my letter are basic ones that just brings the car to roadworthy conditions. i'm not asking for an arm or leg.

will keep everyone posted. hopefully it works out fine.

by the way, how can one confirm really that it has only 1 previous owner? i called up RTA and they can only tell how many owners from the past 12 months which comes out as 2 (previous owner and current dealer owner).

also, how can one confirm that the car has not been flooded or been in an accident? they gave me a PPSR report which only says car has not been written off, but no accident information is available in PPSR nor RTA.

ian861 · 13-06-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

during my time in car sales I found there were far more lying buyers trying to scam the dealership than dishonest salesmen . the saying in the game goes "buyers are liars" .
saw it often bill would get the car valued with lots of goodies fitted near new tyres , do the deal and strip the accessories of and swap their tyres with "uncle Bill" and wonder why the dealer refuses to accept the trade or change the change over price. It's far more common than you think

I used to work for a Ford Dealer and you are right as their are plenty of people trying to scam dealers than sales staff, most sales people couldn't be bothered scamming anybody as they get enough grief without it. Fair trading is the next port of call if you cant sort it out but dealers should be on current affair every night but they don't bother

ian861 · 13-06-2013, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monte.b

Ive bought a few cars ,new and old ,but was always told that the dealer must give you a copy of all the papers you sign ,if they dont you can void the contract ,id suggest you contact fair trading to sort this out ,if afraid used car sales people havnt got a real good name in this country most people believe ,but ive met a few good ones ,good luck with your problem

If you didn't get the copy after you signed the contract how would you prove that if they have a copy that you signed

ian861 · 13-06-2013, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_o

i asked them to email me a copy of the contract, they said they don't email. i have to go to them to see the contract which i dont think exist. i did not sign any contract at all. i will find out tom or saturday. yeah hopefully things work out. my 10 conditions on my letter are basic ones that just brings the car to roadworthy conditions. i'm not asking for an arm or leg.

will keep everyone posted. hopefully it works out fine.

by the way, how can one confirm really that it has only 1 previous owner? i called up RTA and they can only tell how many owners from the past 12 months which comes out as 2 (previous owner and current dealer owner).

also, how can one confirm that the car has not been flooded or been in an accident? they gave me a PPSR report which only says car has not been written off, but no accident information is available in PPSR nor RTA.

It is very hard if it has been in a flood interstate but the dealer has to declare if it has been in a flood, you could find the previous owner and phone them up as I have done that in the past. fair trading is a good place to go if you want some advice

deesun · 13-06-2013, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_o

i asked them to email me a copy of the contract, they said they don't email. i have to go to them to see the contract which i dont think exist. i did not sign any contract at all. i will find out tom or saturday. yeah hopefully things work out. my 10 conditions on my letter are basic ones that just brings the car to roadworthy conditions. i'm not asking for an arm or leg.

will keep everyone posted. hopefully it works out fine.

by the way, how can one confirm really that it has only 1 previous owner? i called up RTA and they can only tell how many owners from the past 12 months which comes out as 2 (previous owner and current dealer owner).

also, how can one confirm that the car has not been flooded or been in an accident? they gave me a PPSR report which only says car has not been written off, but no accident information is available in PPSR nor RTA.

But they have a fax so why can't they fax you a copy? My guess is like yours that you didn't sign one. Again ring or fax and ask for it and if they say no then phone Fair Trading and find out where you stand before you go see them, they want you face to face to pressure you into buying the car.
There are more reports around than PPSR but usually $30+ dollars, I had them done and they certainly go back longer than 12 months. Accidents are only on them if the car has been written off and now with PPSR it is a national system so even if it was written off in another state it shows up. If the car has been flooded and dried out and still runs then nothing will show up on any report anywhere. Do you think it has been? I think (not 100%) that if you ask the dealer for the previous owners details they have to provide them, but if you get the owners manual and its a one owner then it should be in the handbook.

KIWI-1 · 13-06-2013, 01:28 PM

Can Ford Service Managers access the original purchaser's details?

**PG2** · 13-06-2013, 02:43 PM

The dealer can access some of the previous owner's details such as the original owner but they are not allowed to give them out. When I sell a car, I take out all details regarding me - before anyone gets on here to criticize, it's my choice, I am a private person and don't want people to know where I live.

The only simple way that Jeff can obtain the previous owner details is to read the log books himself (yes, I know, this is an issue in itself).

Jeff, ring fair trading, get some advice in regards to obtaining a copy of the original signed contract. Fair trading can actually ring the dealer on the spot for simple requests like this and have the dealer explain to them why they won't scan the original contract and email it to them. Don't mention to Fair Trading all of the other issues as yet as it may then go into the too hard basket and they won't ring the dealer.

jeff_o · 19-06-2013, 10:58 PM

hi everyone! just some updates. i went to the dealership last saturday and it was very quick. kurt tried to get his manager but the manager is busy so they talked in the manager's office then he agreed to all my conditions (in the letter that i have faxed him). so he'll get back to me by this week when to pick up the car. phew!

they said no dramas to all my conditions except that they would have to get the logbooks, 2 keys and ford manual from the vendor which is in QLD!! would you believe that? it is actually confusing coz i thought they owned the car now, unless they are selling the car on behalf of some other dealership.

anyhow hopefully kurt rings me anytime soon so i pick it up!! and hopefully there are no more surprises. fingers crossed

by the way, im just curious, if a car has been flooded, is it automatically written off? i was given a PPSR/REVS report and it doesn't seem to have been written off or flooded.

**PG2** · 19-06-2013, 11:06 PM

Thanks for the update Jeff.

I know it's irrelevant now BUT I need to know - had you signed a contract?

AND....... If not............ have you signed one now?

EDIT: Sorry I was typing while you edited you post.

If the car was insured it would be a write-off and they would not be able to sell it at all with registration. In NSW a write-off can not be re-registered.

There will be tell tale signs if the car has been flooded such as a musty smell in the car. The headlights and tail lights will more than likely have condensation in them (if they do it could also be other reasons for this).

jeff_o · 19-06-2013, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG2

Thanks for the update Jeff.

I know it's irrelevant now BUT I need to know - had you signed a contract?

AND....... If not............ have you signed one now?

no i did not sign a contract and i did not sign when i went there last saturday. i din't want to bring up the contract thing as i wanted to as much as possible work it out with the dealership before threatening them with that contract thing.

jeff_o · 19-06-2013, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG2

EDIT: Sorry I was typing while you edited you post.

If the car was insured it would be a write-off and they would not be able to sell it at all with registration. In NSW a write-off can not be re-registered.

There will be tell tale signs if the car has been flooded such as a musty smell in the car. The headlights and tail lights will more than likely have condensation in them (if they do it could also be other reasons for this).

sorry i was typing too while you edited your post haha!

anyways i dint smell anything funny with the car. both headlights were clear so i think the car is legit to be OK! I will however do a full check again prior to accepting the car once I pick it up

EB# · 20-06-2013, 08:40 AM

Well done Jeff... Sounds like a hassle, but looks like you got there.
As far as a car dealer that 'doesn't do emails' I guess they either didn't have
a contract, or are in the same business class as a Bolivian goat farmer. Pretty easy
to see what was going on.

There's a few lessons here I reckon. A few suggestions for buying a second hand car
from a dealer might be:
- Choose a car that doesn't need any work, or knock the 'repairs' price off
the purchase price and then organise them yourself.
-Do a deal to take the car on the day of finding it, without a deposit or
a contract
- Pay the transfer yourself at the RTA and calculate the figures before you buy

For what it's worth I bought my BA Falcon that way. I was in and then
driving out of the dealer within about 90 minutes, done and dusted, including
a test drive. That was nearly 5 years ago and the car has been great.

All the best with your new car Jeff.

Yellow_Festiva · 20-06-2013, 11:04 AM

Something still sounds sus to me with this whole thing.

Jeff, give them 5 business days to hand over or get your deposit back. NO car is worth this much mucking around....

No contract, no calls back, no emails, no fax, log books that don't exist etc etc etc.

Question.... say you have a warranty issue, what sort of service will you be expecting from this mob????

GQ_Smooth · 20-06-2013, 12:02 PM

Sorry Jeff, if all that you say is correct, sounds very dodgey on the dealer side, taking a deposit without signing a contact. I hope it works out for you and the car is what you expect.

ian861 · 20-06-2013, 01:06 PM

Jeff,
I had a mate who brought a car from a auction here from Queensland and he sold it to some friends of his who did a check some how else and it had been in a flood. The dealer will tell you anything to get you to buy the car. I would be contacting fair trading if the dealer is hiding something as the dealer can make up a set of books. Errr I hope you didn't sign anything when you went back there

jeff_o · 20-06-2013, 08:36 PM

hi. i went to RTA today to check the ownership history of the car. it was genuinely a 1 private owned, then dealer owned, then dealer (somewhere in paramatta) owned. I think carnet auction is selling this on behalf of another dealer.... sounds weird but it looks like that way. and it was not an interstate car (dunno why sales agent told me they need to get the logbooks from QLD). sounds really dodgy but i will give them a call tomorrow to check on the car status.

no i did not sign anything when i went back there. i told the sales i wont get the car until i see everything (all the books), even told him i wanna be sure this time.

monte.b · 20-06-2013, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian861

It is very hard if it has been in a flood interstate but the dealer has to declare if it has been in a flood, you could find the previous owner and phone them up as I have done that in the past. fair trading is a good place to go if you want some advice

Gee isnt that what i suggested and you shot it down in flames ,now your are telling him the same thing ,whats the go with that ,lets face it most dealers woulld tell you anything to sell a car and as far as the flood thing goes , well you can buy lots of cars that were in the flood at auction up here and they havnt been written off

fte50 · 20-06-2013, 10:56 PM

Jeff mate I dont wanna sound rude but have you a 'sucker 4 punishment' sign planted on your forehead ? This dealer seems dodgy as ****.
Its been long enuff, end the charade and demand your money back.
I can understand all this hassle on something rare but we are talking Fiesta. Move on.

blackwasp · 20-06-2013, 11:24 PM

i agree fte50! forget the 500 and find another fiesta which is better for 12k and it works out the same financially!

deesun · 21-06-2013, 12:22 AM

Well as none of us have spoken to the dealer or were there when you were it is your decision to go forward. So far you seem to have got them to come to term with what you want. As tehy havent forced you into anything nor mentioned the contract its possible there isnt any everything is just verbal. You still havent played the Fair Trading card so you still have that up your sleeve. You have knowledge of the previous ownership and you can match that with the log books when you see them. If they don't do the work and or the logs don't match then its time to walk away. You don't have to go there again until all is correct. It seems easy to say walk away but hey, if you get the car then thats another win for the little guy.

jeff_o · 21-06-2013, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deesun

Well as none of us have spoken to the dealer or were there when you were it is your decision to go forward. So far you seem to have got them to come to term with what you want. As tehy havent forced you into anything nor mentioned the contract its possible there isnt any everything is just verbal. You still havent played the Fair Trading card so you still have that up your sleeve. You have knowledge of the previous ownership and you can match that with the log books when you see them. If they don't do the work and or the logs don't match then its time to walk away. You don't have to go there again until all is correct. It seems easy to say walk away but hey, if you get the car then thats another win for the little guy.

hey what do i match in the logbooks? just the VIN and the progression of the kms logged during service? i hear people keep saying match the logbooks with the car but i can't think of anything to match but the VIN and the kms?

deesun · 21-06-2013, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_o

hey what do i match in the logbooks? just the VIN and the progression of the kms logged during service? i hear people keep saying match the logbooks with the car but i can't think of anything to match but the VIN and the kms?

If its a one owner car bought new it could have the owners name, reciepts for any other work done, if theres an address you could be lucky and find their phone no and give them a ring.You said it wasn't an out of state car. Yes kms, timeline of its life, unfortunately if you rang the dealer where it was serviced they prolly wont tell you anything.

ian861 · 21-06-2013, 07:14 AM

I would phone fair trading and ask them what their thoughts are, you don't have to go through a formal complaint as quite often they will get things sorted with the dealer over the phone, I guess that depends on who you get on the phone too. The other thing do you have a mate who is a mechanic or are you a member of the NRMA because they can do a good job cleaning the cars up. Do you get a warranty with the car etc since its from a dealer and if you find its been swimming later you could have a go at the dealer

deesun · 21-06-2013, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian861

I would phone fair trading and ask them what their thoughts are, you don't have to go through a formal complaint as quite often they will get things sorted with the dealer over the phone, I guess that depends on who you get on the phone too. The other thing do you have a mate who is a mechanic or are you a member of the NRMA because they can do a good job cleaning the cars up. Do you get a warranty with the car etc since its from a dealer and if you find its been swimming later you could have a go at the dealer

The current situation is that the dealer has agreed to all requests and is working on that. It was only a thought the car had possibly been flood affected but apparently there are no signs of it. Call to FT would only be for advice because untill the dealer has refused to co-operate they can't act.

xisled · 21-06-2013, 06:28 PM

It is possible that the car was traded in to a dealer, since the car is out of factory warranty the dealer has sent it through the auction house. Happens all the time in trade ins, cars get sent to wholesalers etc. Maybe the car was sold to a Queensland dealer and sent back, because it is cheaper to sell in NSW as it is already registered in NSW.

kermey · 01-07-2013, 08:07 PM

Have you picked this vehicle up Jeff?

jeff_o · 07-07-2013, 06:33 PM

hi all. sorry for not updating for a while. i have been busy.

anyway i went to the dealership yesterday to supposedly pickup the car. they did provide the logbooks/manual, they had to order an authentic spare keyfob. they did wheel alignment. they replaced 2 front new tires. the rear left is on the low side, rear right is new but different brand (now i have 3 brands of tires). I spoke to the bigboss there and he said he will check the rear 2 tires if replaceable (fingers crossed). i test drove the car... drives like a dream, tested everything and all functions work.

only 1 issue left which is the USB/AUX which did not function on my previous inspection. apparently this is a known issue and needs module replacement/software update. So they took it to Ford and it was fixed but when I play my ipod via USB, the stereo plays it but no sound (just hiss). So I told them to just replace the rear 2 tires and i'll take the car to the Ford dealership that fixed the USB module (maybe it's just a setting). fingers crossed would be able to finally pick the car up on Mon or Tues.

cheers and have a great sunday night!