New HSV Backlash on TODAY SHOW

[XP6]

Originally Posted by wildrider

I think your stuck stuck in the 70s. there are smaller capicty cars that will flog this thing that will probably only produce 340kw at the rears. loved to test your theory against against something like a Ferrari 458. a car that accelerates from a standing start too 100km/h in 3 and a half seconds and yet has a smaller 4.5L V8 that's also naturally aspirated

Yes true but cost upwards of ten times the amount... average plebs like us could never afford one... even if we did win the lotto!

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by stevz

I'm so sick and tired of this obsession people seem to have with quarter mile and 0-100 times...So car x is 0.0001 seconds quicker than car y. Whoop dee doo, do you want a medal? Does it help you sleep at night? Does it pay your bills? Seriously?
Don't get me wrong, I like performance cars as much as the next bloke, but all this pointless carry on about times is mind numbing to read and is nothing but a childish **** measuring contest.

this is a car forum. HSV and FPV are Australian performance cars so these times are important too give potential buyers an idea of what too expect when you put your foot down. would you rather have Australian performance car times revealed so potential new performance car buyers can make a choice or would you rather they all go out and buy new WRXs???

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by wildrider

I think your stuck stuck in the 70s. there are smaller capicty cars that will flog this thing that will probably only produce 340kw at the rears. loved to test your theory against against something like a Ferrari 458. a car that accelerates from a standing start too 100km/h in 3 and a half seconds and yet has a smaller 4.5L V8 that's also naturally aspirated

But I bet the 458 s doesn't weigh anywhere near two tonne... Put the fezza motor in the clubsport and I bet it wouldn't be too flash at all. Would sound cool but.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by XP6

Yes true but cost upwards of ten times the amount... average plebs like us could never afford one... even if we did win the lotto!

just proving a point that anyone who thinks a cars got a smaller motor means that it will be slower has no idea. there are plenty of four cylinders getting about now that will accelerate just as hard of faster six cylinders. why do people spend money on cars powered by RB30s and Barra Turbo 6s at the drags?? I've got a mate with a RB30 powered VK that would give a few naturally aspirated 5L V8s a rather good scare. seen plenty of XR6 turbos and Typhoons flog V8 with ease.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

But I bet the 458 s doesn't weigh anywhere near two tonne... Put the fezza motor in the clubsport and I bet it wouldn't be too flash at all. Would sound cool but.

it produces 419kw at the flywheel what does HSVs new GTS produce at the fly wheel?? 430kw?? I think it wouldn't be much slower but why would you put fezza motor in a clubsport?? would be stupid.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by stevz

I'm so sick and tired of this obsession people seem to have with quarter mile and 0-100 times...So car x is 0.0001 seconds quicker than car y. Whoop dee doo, do you want a medal? Does it help you sleep at night? Does it pay your bills? Seriously?
Don't get me wrong, I like performance cars as much as the next bloke, but all this pointless carry on about times is mind numbing to read and is nothing but a childish **** measuring contest.

You get that so better learn to live with it ..... especially when the topic is HSV or anything that has 'Special' or 'Performance' in its title ... so either live with this obsession people have or take up knitting (NOT speed knitting either for gods sake!)

Yes I do love medals ..... I own a car that does 10's ..... I deserve 1? Please???

Doesn't pay the bills ..... in fact makes the bills BLOODY hard to pay!!!!

Not pointless as HSV, FPV, AMG ... etc know that numbers sell cars, people (especially on forums) get excited about figures and the 'obsession' with numbers is great discussion for many (Except for those who own and drive HSV's over the past few years ... they keep that quiet these days)

Suppose we could measure the worth of a car on how many airbags they have ...... ? Cup holders? Can talk about handling but that is very subjective. Can talk about 86's all day I suppose and how well they go around corners sideways?

Its a car forum ......

PS: I do sleep well at night now because my car does 10's

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Brent

Using Neil Mitchell's logic you'd immediately have to question the validity of every motorbike on today's roads outside of a Vespa. For far, far less than any HSV or FPV I can pop into a motorbike shop and come home with a 1,000cc missile.

And they have significantly less safety features.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Lardman

If you look at both the current Australian economy and the British economy before, during, and in the case of the UK, after, yeah.

It did.

We had a mining boom, they didn't. Now ours has dropped off and things are about to hit the fan. $12 billion deficit anyone?

But this has nothing to do with the topic.

I think the price of the W427 will drop like a stone overnight when this is released. All those clowns with way too much money who bought one, and locked it up in the shed thinking they will be worth a fortune one day must be absolutely sweating now.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

We had a mining boom, they didn't. Now ours has dropped off and things are about to hit the fan. $12 billion deficit anyone?

But this has nothing to do with the topic.

I think the price of the W427 will drop like a stone overnight when this is released. All those clowns with way too much money who bought one, and locked it up in the shed thinking they will be worth a fortune one day must be absolutely sweating now.

In a way yes ..... but limited edition cars still command a bit of a premium in the collectors corner. EBGT & ELGT's are not the powerhouse compared to those that followed them but they will demand a premium because of what they are ...... a limited release and just that little bit different from the norm. A curio that collectors like to collect.

[steve.zissou]

stock CTV's with this engine are getting about 350 ish rwkw (some claim higher up to 390rwkw but them be on happy dynos i think)

with a tune and different pully (Lingenfelter 630 HP Kit) they are getting about 400 rwkw

very similar to the ford 5.0 s/c

[burnz]

Originally Posted by wildrider

I think your stuck stuck in the 70s. there are smaller capicty cars that will flog this thing that will probably only produce 340kw at the rears. loved to test your theory against against something like a Ferrari 458. a car that accelerates from a standing start too 100km/h in 3 and a half seconds and yet has a smaller 4.5L V8 that's also naturally aspirated

so a 900kg car with a 4.5l hrrm
yet it would have a faster time with a bigger cubed chev/ford,

70's have nothing to do with Vol Efficiant that all engines require.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by burnz

so a 900kg car with a 4.5l hrrm
yet it would have a faster time with a bigger cubed chev/ford,

70's have nothing to do with Vol Efficiant that all engines require.

no because what you don't understand and the rest of the people who think big motors mean more power is the fact that the 6.2L supercharged in the new GTS has 430kw compared too a 458s 4.5L that produces 419kw and too add insult to injury is NATURALLY ASPERATED. second there heavier then 900kg. the 458 is closer to 1500kg. so you might want to get your fact straight before commenting. 3rdly the bigger (heavier) motor (this case the supercharged 6.2L in the new GTS) would weight the Ferrari down more making it slower. would you like some links that state the weight and power of a Ferrari 458?? I have a few. another example of this look at the 5.4L V8 vs the 4L I6 in the old BA/BF falcons. why was the XR6 turbo quicker then the XR8?? just because something has a big motor doesn't mean its going too be faster

[mik]

Originally Posted by wildrider

I think your stuck stuck in the 70s. there are smaller capicty cars that will flog this thing that will probably only produce 340kw at the rears. loved to test your theory against against something like a Ferrari 458. a car that accelerates from a standing start too 100km/h in 3 and a half seconds and yet has a smaller 4.5L V8 that's also naturally aspirated

Probably true, however , not only are our local performance sedans , capable of doing track days , you can also load them up with family and throw the van on the back and reliably in comfort head off on that road trip, or cruise to work in arm chair comfort and big car safety, you cannot fairly compare a dedicated sprts car to a big all purpose family sedan.
The mere fact any of our big local sporty sedans can give challenge to dedicated sports cars and big buck exotics is something we should feel very lucky to have imo.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by mik

Probably true, however , not only are our local performance sedans , capable of doing track days , you can also load them up with family and throw the van on the back and reliably in comfort head off on that road trip, or cruise to work in arm chair comfort and big car safety, you cannot fairly compare a dedicated sprts car to a big all purpose family sedan.
The mere fact any of our big local sporty sedans can give challenge to dedicated sports cars and big buck exotics is something we should feel very lucky to have imo.

I'm not bagging out the local product. Im just using them as an example for people that think there is no subistute for cubic inches as its not always the case (a lot of the time nowdays it isn't)

[burnz]

Originally Posted by wildrider

I'm not bagging out the local product. Im just using them as an example for people that think there is no subistute for cubic inches as its not always the case (a lot of the time nowdays it isn't)

but it is the case!
VE X cube's, that's it nothing else.
405 bhp formula one at 22,000 rpm only put out 97 foot pounds of torque.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11388673
cube's matter..

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by burnz

but it is the case!
VE X cube's, that's it nothing else.
405 bhp formula one at 22,000 rpm only put out 97 foot pounds of torque.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11388673
cube's matter..

is that the best example you can come up with??? theres a lot more too it then displacement. or are you upset that someone with a smaller motor beat you or something?? power, weight, torque delivery, driver etc play a big part of it. did you read about my comment with the XR6 turbo VS XR8??? they had the 5.4L didn't they?? and the XR6 turbo had a 4L. try telling the owners of FPV GTs with there Miami 5L V8 that they will get there backside kicked by the the 325kw VE GTS. it has a 6.2L motor. so by your theory it must be the faster car??

[flooded one]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDC8MwbmjFI

I suppose you think this person is wasting his time with a turbo 6??

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by wildrider

is that the best example you can come up with??? theres a lot more too it then displacement. or are you upset that someone with a smaller motor beat you or something?? power, weight, torque delivery, driver etc play a big part of it. did you read about my comment with the XR6 turbo VS XR8??? they had the 5.4L didn't they?? and the XR6 turbo had a 4L. try telling the owners of FPV GTs with there Miami 5L V8 that they will get there backside kicked by the the 325kw VE GTS. it has a 6.2L motor. so by your theory it must be the faster car??

No need to get snarky about it, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

But if your gonna compare engines, you need to compare like for like.

No point saying the new genf motor is a dud, when what your comparing it to has a motor that would probably cost as much as a whole gts.

Your comparing an engine that's about as advanced as any road going engine there is, to an engine that can trace its ancestry back to the 60s.

Comparing the 4.0l to the 5.4? So possibly the best locally made engine ever, to a mongrel of car and truck bits hobbled together...

Comparing apples to oranges.

Low tech vs high tech in other words.
I'm sure if hsv had a business case for a 400k 700kw family sedan then I'm sure there friendly crate engine building mates over at gm power train could build them something.

Like for like, cubes matter, there's no denying it.

[DDXR6T]

If it were FPV with a 430kw motor, this thread would be entitled "FPV backlash on Today Show. WTF?!". Good on HSV, 430kw is huge, especially with a warranty and Euro challenging power.

Don't get me wrong, FPV all the way, but FPV, pick up the A-game!

[chookaradley]

The chassis on the new Falcon would have to come in for some serious work to be able to handle that sort of grunt. One would have to think despite the improvements to grip and handling in the R spec, FPV would be at the limit as to what they can do with the current car. Despite Miami's performance advantage over current VE, the HSV is widely regarded as the better drivers car. Its not all about performance, we love performance, just give us a chassis that can do it justice

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by chookaradley

The chassis on the new Falcon would have to come in for some serious work to be able to handle that sort of grunt. One would have to think despite the improvements to grip and handling in the R spec, FPV would be at the limit as to what they can do with the current car. Despite Miami's performance advantage over current VE, the HSV is widely regarded as the better drivers car. Its not all about performance, we love performance, just give us a chassis that can do it justice

How much truth is there to this though? Other members here with big power and suspension/tyre upgrades, how are your cars coping? And has anyone driven a VE with forced induction? Did it handle the power okay?

I've wondered what a VE would be like if it had to deal with the same brutal deliveries that a Barra 't' or Miami throw at you. And how an FG would be with wider, 45 profile tyres and stiffer springs and dampers.