Another High School Shooting in the US

[R0BD0G]

its really sad that somebody would do this

[Green X]

Agree, Brent, I do a bit of shooting a few times a year and can’t see the need for automatic or semi auto weapons in the hands of Joe public. Thou I thought Semi automatic rifles were still on the list but have to undergo a license revue every 6 months.

Quote
“Go get a crossbow and give the pig a fighting chance mate! Or use SGs in your shotty that way you have to be close and you have to be accurate. Much more skill involved!”

Get real, much rather go at em with a 6.5*55 or 44 lever action at least you know you will get it down with the first shot, and I would opt for a deer slug with a SSG in the second barrel as back up with a 12ga.

Cross Bow, that’s like using an Adjustable spanner to toque up head bolts.

As for the Hole car or knife argument, well you can take action against those items, Somebody points a gun at you, well there isn’t a lot you can do to get out the way or defend yourself against a projectile travelling at 2000FPS is there.

[flappist]

This is fun. Anti gun nutters spewing the same rhetoric over and over again.

How many of you have owned or even used an AK47?
How many have been pig shooting with full auto weapons?
How many of you have even fired an auto or even a handgun?
How many of you have been to USA (not LAX airport but actual USA)?

If you cannot answer yes to all these then how do you know how easy it is to kill with a Kalashnikov or a handgun or what US society is like?

I see most of this dogmatic crap coming from watching movies, reading beatups in newspapers and general namby pamby wussing.

I am also amused at the guns in the laundry comment. I am shocked that none of thes nasty guns just jumped up and killed you. I once saw a car parked in a street. I am not sure if it had any petrol but hundreds of people are killed by cars (mostly automatc ones) every year.

Most of you guys have no idea about fiream laws and availability in either Australia or USA and I am quite aware that anything I and anyone else says will have as much effect of you and trying to explain motor vehicle issues to Harold Scruby.

You are right, they are wrong, there is no debate.

[Polyal]

Your right interceptor, I know SFA all about guns, and the way in which they are used.

And you know what, Im happy with that. Guns are not needed, unless, like I said before, for sport or culling purposes. Why do you need a gun? What are you afraid of?

There is no reason in the world to justify legally owning weapons in which can cause such devastation so quickly and efficiently as this, and as the past cases have proven.

You might say, "well if they used non auto guns then people would still die". True, but if you can lessen the damage, even by one, is that not justification enough?

I am not a hippy, for from it, but give me one good reason why you need a gun? There isn't one, and "because" or "its my right" doesn't count; lame answers when lives etc are potentially at risk.

This is all about America BTW, Im quite happy what the government has done here.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Harold Scruby

You're right interceptor, I know SFA all about PERFORMANCE CARS, and the way in which they are used.

And you know what, Im happy with that. PERFORMANCE CARS are not needed, unless, like I said before, for sport or racing purposes. Why do you need a PERFORMANCE CARS? Why do you want to go fast?

There is no reason in the world to justify legally owning PERFORMANCE CARS in which can cause such devastation so quickly and efficiently as this, and as the past cases have proven.

You might say, "well if they used NON PERFORMANCE CARS then people would still die". True, but if you can lessen the damage, even by one, is that not justification enough?

I am not a hippy, for from it, but give me one good reason why you need a PERFORMANCE CARS? There isn't one, and "because" or "its my right" doesn't count; lame answers when lives etc are potentially at risk.

This is all about America BTW, Im quite happy what the government has done here.

Gees Harold where have I read this before?

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Your right interceptor, I know SFA all about guns, and the way in which they are used.

And you know what, Im happy with that. Guns are not needed, unless, like I said before, for sport or culling purposes. Why do you need a gun? What are you afraid of?

There is no reason in the world to justify legally owning weapons in which can cause such devastation so quickly and efficiently as this, and as the past cases have proven.

You might say, "well if they used non auto guns then people would still die". True, but if you can lessen the damage, even by one, is that not justification enough?

I am not a hippy, for from it, but give me one good reason why you need a gun? There isn't one, and "because" or "its my right" doesn't count; lame answers when lives etc are potentially at risk.

This is all about America BTW, Im quite happy what the government has done here.

Well put Polyal, I couldn't have put it better. Why do people need guns apart from the reasons you put above ?

Don't get me wrong, I love military history and have a large library of both fiction and non fiction on the 2 World Wars & thats where I think firearms belong unless they are needed for other valid reasons (farmers, sports use, & registered hunters).

In the end we don't have all the facts in this case but I'll be interested to know about the type and number of firearms this man had with him.

NB: Apparently in Virginia Guns aren't registered, and you can get a new weapon every month !! WTF !!

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I am not a hippy, for from it, but give me one good reason why you need a gun? There isn't one, and "because" or "its my right" doesn't count; lame answers when lives etc are potentially at risk.

ok.... wanna explain why you need a nice, shiny fairmont ghia? i'm sure your feet are capable of getting you from point A to point B satisfactorily, if you need to go further, get a pushbike!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

ok.... wanna explain why you need a nice, shiny fairmont ghia? i'm sure your feet are capable of getting you from point A to point B satisfactorily, if you need to go further, get a pushbike!

Dont talk about another topic, this has nothing to do with Ford Falcons, talk guns. Your analogies are not good enough.

Why do I need a fairmont? Because a) its perfectly legal for me to own one, b) I need to get to uni/work/see family...if I didn't have the car I would ride my bike or catch public transport; which has nothing to do with guns!

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Dont talk about another topic, this has nothing to do with Ford Falcons, talk guns. Your analogies are not good enough.

Why do I need a fairmont? Because a) its perfectly legal for me to own one, b) I need to get to uni/work/see family...if I didn't have the car I would ride my bike or catch public transport; which has nothing to do with guns!

you can do all of those on foot or with a pushbike, two quite legal means of transportation, and a LOT cheaper too!

untill ignorant morons started all the bullshit about "killer guns" it was quite legal to own ANY type of gun

what will you do the day when the aformentioned ignorant morons get all vehicles banned?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

you can do all of those on foot or with a pushbike, two quite legal means of transportation, and a LOT cheaper too!

untill ignorant morons started all the bullshit about "killer guns" it was quite legal to own ANY type of gun

what will you do the day when the aformentioned ignorant morons get all vehicles banned?

Yeah I agree, some people go waay overboard, im not a lefty thats for sure, but there is a middle ground.

The media is always going to jump up and down with the issue because for whatever reason that sells papers.

[Polyal]

Actually I am having deja vu, but you still didn't answer the question.

And at the end of the day I dont care. America is in a very sad state; its their issue, and if they are to silly to see it then what can you do.

Dont even go there, Guns VS Cars, please thats pretty lame. Guns are made to kill are they not? Last time I checked, a cars main purpose was for transport; just a tad different.

And my beef with "performance" cars was with P platers only, couldn't give a rats about full licensed drivers. And yes I know that full licensed drivers can be idiots too. But thats waaay OT

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Actually I am having deja vu, but you still didn't answer the question.

And at the end of the day I dont care. America is in a very sad state; its their issue, and if they are to silly to see it then what can you do.

Dont even go there, Guns VS Cars, please thats pretty lame. Guns are made to kill are they not? Last time I checked, a cars main purpose was for transport; just a tad different.

And my beef with "performance" cars was with P platers only, couldn't give a rats about full licensed drivers. And yes I know that full licensed drivers can be idiots too. But thats waaay OT

No I wasn't comparing cars to guns, I was showing how a person who has no idea can have a rave about something and appear to make sense to others who have no idea.

Guns are made to accellerate small objects to high speed quickly. Some are used as weapons, others not. Cars are made to transport things, some are used as weapons, others not. Depends on the person in control doesn't it?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by flappist

No I wasn't comparing cars to guns, I was show how a person who has no idea can have a rave about something and appear to make sense to others who have no idea.

Guns are made to accellerate small objects to high speed quickly. Some are used as weapons, others not. Cars are made to transport things, some are used as weapons, others not. Depends on the person in control doesn't it?

I noticed exactly what you were doing. Yes of course it does, I have no beef with that.

But just because Im not up to date with the exact working of gun legislation doesn't mean that even blind freddy can see there is a problem there. Controlling guns is lot easier than trying to control every person mental state, which is obviously impossible. Even "sane" people can go crazy. But if you can atleast attempt to limit the damage then why not.

Like I said, I am not anti gun, I find it quite pleasurable actually, but there is a line to be drawn, it seems to have worked here, and yet America sits there thinking "what is the problem" when its quite obvious.

Problem is culture is a pretty damn hard thing to change, but through forcing people into it you can eventually modify it.

[dansedgli]

Originally Posted by Polyal

it seems to have worked here

BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So spending millions of taxpayers dollars on buying back firearms for no noticable fall in violent crime figures is "working"? Oh please. Of course it's working, there's no gangland murders in Melbourne involving firearms at all!

Problem is culture is a pretty damn hard thing to change, but through forcing people into it you can eventually modify it.

....

I won't even touch that one, though I believe Pol Pot gave it a crack in the 70's.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by ea_weapon

BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So spending millions of taxpayers dollars on buying back firearms for no noticable fall in violent crime figures is "working"? Oh please. Of course it's working, there's no gangland murders in Melbourne involving firearms at all!



....

I won't even touch that one, though I believe Pol Pot gave it a crack in the 70's.

And why would you care about the gangland killings? There doing the community a favor knocking off each other.

And you can have any law you like, there's always going to be underworld/black market stuff, but sitting back and doing nothing about the situation is pathetic.

There no point arguing/discussing this with people who seem to think that having full access to any gun you want is ok. If you honestly dont see an issue, fine, like I said I dont care, im just happy the way things are here.

If you need to feel more manly, or are scared of something then America currently is the place for you.

And again, the pro gun people still haven't given an answer to my question of why you need them....

[athol]

I think Americans are numbed to shootings, I was just having a look on a Mustang site over there, there was a post about the shooting just after it happened has only had 3 replies and is about to be pushed of the front page by car posts, they seem to more concerned about their cars than the mass slaughter of their school students.



Athol.

[Fordman1]

In the end guys, we are after all talking about the murder of over thirty young people here. Their families will have to live with this for the rest of their lives.

It seems the authorities should have locked the school down, but didn't, and made the assumption that the gun man had escaped !

[Gammaboy]

The Shooter is rumoured to be a Chinese student, which means that the guns used were *not* obtained legally. It has nothing to do with gun control laws, Except perhaps if people were permitted to CC on campus old mate might not have squeezed off 60+ rounds...

[Homer1]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

The Shooter is rumoured to be a Chinese student, which means that the guns used were *not* obtained legally. It has nothing to do with gun control laws, Except perhaps if people were permitted to CC on campus old mate might not have squeezed off 60+ rounds...

No, shooter was Korean. He wasn't an O/S student as he had been living in the US since he was a child. Thus he was a US citizen or resident at least and obtained the guns legally and was seen on CCTV buying them in the gun store. He had no previous criminal activity so the gunshop had no reason to deny him the guns.

[Green X]

Quote
"Most of you guys have no idea about fiream laws and availability"

“Most of you guys have no idea about firearm laws and availability”

LOL, try obtaining a license it in WA, you need a pineapple remover to get the pineapple out of ya **** after it’s all done, I have 2 rifles I haven’t transferred over into my name cause I can’t be ******** filling in all the paper work and getting letters all over agene then playing 50 questions with the coppers over it.

Hell one of em is a 32-40 lever action Winchester that hasn’t been used for 20 years, can’t even buy ammunition for the basted anymore and yet I still need to go throe all the bullshit agene like I did the first time.

A good friend of mine wanted to license a 22-250, had a letter from the owner of a station, had his uncle’s farm that he shoots on and he goes deer shooting in Tasmania every year.

He already had 2 High powered rifles on his license on below and one above the 22-250 capabilities and Firearms branch were reluctant to, Ok this addition, Took 2 phone calls directly to them and countless questions and close to 3 months for them to ok it.

[dansedgli]

So you're advocating vigilantism?

So if there's always going to be a black market, why restrict lawful citizens? 90% of gun crime in Australia involves illegal firearms. I may be wrong but I'm fairly sure suicide is included in those stats. The government does sit back and do nothing! What the hell does a buy back of firearms from sporting shooters and hunters achieve? Will criminals everywhere just have a change of heart and give their weapons up?

The pistols used in this shooting were illegal. The shooter was in the country on a student visa. You need a green card to legally own a firearm in the US. What could the banning of legal firearms have done to prevent it?

The AR-15 that Martin Bryant used was handed in for destruction in 1993. What effect would banning legal firearms have had on it?

I'm not saying there should be a free for all on firearms. I believe safes are a great idea and always store my rifles, bolts and ammunition seperate, with locks through the action of the rifles. I do have a problem with registration of all firearms. In this day and age of confidential police documents and so forth falling into the wrong hands it's stupid to have a virtual shopping list for criminals.

I believe in open and concealed carry. It works in many US states. I do believe in the right to own firearms for self defence. It also works in many US states. I have no problems with semi-automatic firearms in public hands. They have a place in practical shooting events. They have a place in hunting pests such as rabbits. They have purpose as collectors items. They are a hell of a lot of fun as well.

Sure you don't need them, but what do you need? Food, water, oxygen and shelter. Everything is else is just a luxury. A lot of these luxuries also kill people, be it their intented purpose or not.

Why do you feel the need to own a 6 cylinder Falcon? To feel more manly than Toyota Echo drivers? There is absolutely no need for anyone to own anything more than a white 3 cylinder diesel hybrid that is speed limited to 110 km.

Which by the way, you still haven't given a reason why anyone needs a performance car.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by ea_weapon

So you're advocating vigilantism?

So if there's always going to be a black market, why restrict lawful citizens? 90% of gun crime in Australia involves illegal firearms. The government does sit back and do nothing! What the hell does a buy back of firearms from sporting shooters and hunters achieve? Will criminals everywhere just have a change of heart and give their weapons up?

The pistols used in this shooting were illegal. The shooter was in the country on a student visa. You need a green card to legally own a firearm in the US. What could the banning of legal firearms have done to prevent it?

The AR-15 that Martin Bryant used was handed in for destruction in 1993. What effect would banning legal firearms have had on it?

I'm not saying there should be a free for all on firearms. I believe safes are a great idea and always store my rifles, bolts and ammunition seperate, with locks through the action of the rifles. I do have a problem with registration of all firearms. In this day and age of confidential police documents and so forth falling into the wrong hands it's stupid to have a virtual shopping list for criminals.

I believe in open and concealed carry. It works in many US states. I do believe in the right to own firearms for self defence. It also works in many US states. I have no problems with semi-automatic firearms in public hands. They have a place in practical shooting events. They have a place in hunting pests such as rabbits. They have purpose as collectors items. They are a hell of a lot of fun as well.

Sure you don't need them, but what do you need? Food, water, oxygen and shelter. Everything is else is just a luxury. A lot of these luxuries also kill people, be it their intented purpose or not.

Why do you feel the need to own a 6 cylinder Falcon? To feel more manly than Toyota Echo drivers? There is absolutely no need for anyone to own anything more than a white 3 cylinder diesel hybrid that is speed limited to 110 km.

Which by the way, you still haven't given a reason why anyone needs a performance car.

Naturally I dont advocate vigilantism; but if one druggie kills another do you think I care, hell no. We have a system to deal with that, either way the living druggie will be in jail for "x" amount of time, so thats win win from where I am sitting.

You make alot of good points, but to sit back and do nothing I think is even worse; its negligence.

Like I said, no law, no legislation, no amount of policing is going to stop everything. But if it makes it harder for your average Joe to get there hands on the stuff then I am all for it.

So then it will just be the people that genuinely want to own a gun that go ahead and do it. If you want to own a gun and not be licensed or whatever; thats fine, but thats the risk you run.

As for the car stuff, thats been done before, do a serach on performance cars or something like that. But in brief, I have no issue with performance cars, the issue is with who drives them; and those P plater laws (which I assume is what you are getting at) are good, just like the gun laws we have. Its better than doing nothing at all.

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by ea_weapon

The pistols used in this shooting were illegal. The shooter was in the country on a student visa. You need a green card to legally own a firearm in the US. What could the banning of legal firearms have done to prevent it?

Actually, he purchased the weapons legally.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0407/415129.html

http://cbs5.com/topstories/topstorie...107173020.html

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Lagom

Actually, he purchased the weapons legally.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0407/415129.html

http://cbs5.com/topstories/topstorie...107173020.html

Both of those handguns are totally prohibited from private ownership in every state and territory in Australia already as are the extended magazines.

[dansedgli]

Originally Posted by Ryan

The difference between cars and guns is, cars are a means of transportation, while guns are weapons, and 90% of the time are used to kill or injure people.

Oh please....

I fired 300 odd rounds last weekend. Based on 90% of the time firearms being used to kill or injure, that means someone else fired 2700 rounds in anger to counter my 300? If you're going to make something up, at least make it realistic.

Perhaps your statistic works out in Iraq, but last time I checked we're not there.

It's true a car can be just as deadly as a gun, but that's not the primary use of it.

More people die in car accidents in Australia than gun related murders. I'll even go out on a limb and say more people die in accidents in cars driven over the speed limit than in gun related murders involving legal firearms.

But cars weren't designed for killing, so it's ok?

Originally Posted by Lagom

Actually, he purchased the weapons legally.

Yep, I'll pay that. Yesterday I heard from numerous sources he was in the country on a student visa, not a perm resident visa.

After hearing about his history you've got to wonder why the hell he was allowed one. While I'm pro-gun, I have two major objections with the US system. The so called "back ground checks", which pretty much mean you a; aren't a convicted fellon and b; are a citizen or have a green card and the ease of getting a firearm through a private sale. Both of which are massive issues.

Originally Posted by flappist

Both of those handguns are totally prohibited from private ownership in every state and territory in Australia already as are the extended magazines.

Lucky, those Glocks are so evil with their sub-120mm barrel length.

[GT290]

[QUOTE=ea_weapon]




More people die in car accidents in Australia than gun related murders. I'll even go out on a limb and say more people die in accidents in cars driven over the speed limit than in gun related murders involving legal firearms.

But cars weren't designed for killing, so it's ok?



Wonder if little johny in his wisdom will arrange a buy back on all our cars?

[blownvn]

Originally Posted by ea_weapon

Lucky, those Glocks are so evil with their sub-120mm barrel length.

Yep, I'm glad mine is perfectly safe 'cause it's got the Australian compliant 123mm barrel.

I read the first two pages of this thread and then stopped reading because it was making me angry all over again.

It's a bloody tragedy what happened over in the US but what the hell does it have to do without gun laws over here. We have some of the most restrictive laws around and some bloody stupid ones as well (like the fact that my Glock 17 is somehow less dangerous because the barrel is a couple mm longer).
It's not like we can just walk into a shop here in Australia and buy a gun and walk out. First we have strict licencing and long drawn out background checks and then we have the good old 28day waiting period for each firearm we wish to purchase and then we can have anything that was actually designed after 1900 because that would be far too dangerous.

Leave the American gun laws to the Americans who have to live with them and leave the Australian gun laws alone, us legitimate owners have been put through enough bullshit, and you guys - the Australian taxpayer - have been paying for it.

[HTCURRY]

Why do these topics always become a battle btw the pro/anti gun lobbies?

Short of making sure there were no guns in the US, not much could have prevented this.

*Lets pretend like there are no guns at all in the US legal or otherwise...problem solved right? hmmm not like anything illegal ever crosses the border from Mexico.

Whether the guns are licensed or not doesnt change the action. If it was done with a licensed guns, it just makes it easier to track people down, but it doesnt change the fate of the dead.

According to CNN guns were a .22 and a 9 mm.

I also dont think the authorities can be blamed for this....this is not your local TAFE.

I grew up in Virginia, and went down to Va Tech to watch the Hokies play a quite a few football games.

The campus is HUGE, 90+ buildings, and acres and acres of grounds.


No way for authorities to assume a shooting in a dormitory would then escalate into a massacre in actual faculty buildings.

[wulos]

Some members may note that a few posts have been removed from this thread by myself. They were removed to pay the victim(s) of this tragedy the respect they deserve - not to make lighthearted fun over....
Incidents like these will always attract some extreme differences in opinion, as people deal with things in their own ways. Some express this by shock, some by outrage, others resort to their own type of humour (none of these is wrong by the way) just some viewed as not as appropriate for public viewing on AFF as others......

[jason_85]

Condolences to the victims and the families!

I dont understand who randomly takes video footage when a shooting is about to occur ??????

Maybe someone knew it was going to happen... just suss thats all