School zones - speed related

[FASTXR]

Originally Posted by woodsy109

It might cost a bit of money to set up, which is probably why the NSW authorities have been "investigating" the idea for so long, but really would it be too much to ask for some of the revenue from speed cameras to be put into this project?

But as the government continuously tells us that saving lives is their main priority, not raising revenue, how can they justify not spending the money on lights?

[parawolf]

*sigh* why not put a fence on the footpath that is about 5foot high with spikes on top so the kids and parents cannot climb over it to jay-walk across a road in front of peak hour traffic? Why not make these fences complete from one end of the 'school zone' to the other and just have the permanently in place. In addition, in the spots where there are crossings for these roads, have an hydrolic door to open when the little man goes green only. </sarcasm>

Seriously load of rubbish some stuff that comes out of Scruby's mouth at times...

[thefargo]

in south aust 25km/hr whenever children are present
that could be on the weekend, playing sport, late at night concerts etc, during the day, maybe leaving school early etc, any time there are children about....you are doing 25 km/hr
doesn't matter if there are signs, lollypop people, aor flashing lights. it's up to you , the driver, to see what is going on

[Ultimate]

Yer flashing lights are good idea. Cause when the hell are school days

[ltd]

Originally Posted by slipper

So what you are saying, ltd, is that you have a problem reading school zone speed limit signs. But you have no issue with any other speed limit sign, even though they might also suffer from obscurity behind trees etc. Is that correct? If the sign is truly hidden, then that is your defence against the ticket.

I don't recall having any difficulty reading these signs when I am in Sydney. Or Melbourne. Or anywhere else for that matter.

No, again you're mistaken, I don't have any problems reading signs when they are visible. Where did I say I have no problem reading other obscured or otherwise signs that indicate anything else but a school zone? Don't make facts up or base your evidence on supposition to support your lacklustre arguement.

To entertain you I know for a fact that the majority of roads throughout suburbia are 50 or 60 kmh zones. This is ascertained by the number of lanes there are on a road ie, 1 lane is typically 50 or 60; you just keep up with the flow of traffic, and 2 lanes is typically 60. Again you keep up with the flow of traffic. This is the basic premise used when learning to drive, they teach you to interpret in the absence of signage. Obviously, an intellectual giant such as yourself would realise this.
Tell me, have you actually tried to defend a speeding offence in a school zone? Have you tried to tell the police man that the sign was obscured? I think you'll find that your complaint will fall upon deaf ears.

It is all very well and good for someone who says that they have no problems to look down from his ivory tower with scold for us mere mortals, but you sir are in the minority when it comes to public feeling on school zones in NSW. If you even had the slightest regard for children you would agree that alerting drivers to the activation of school zones is tantamount to reducing accidents. Unfortunately you prefer to try and start an arguement on baseless claims because you personally feel satisfaction or empowerment derived from some bizarre Edipus issue. Be ignorant as long as you like, and advocate the 25kmh limit, just don't expect anyone to care when you complain about the cost of goods going up due to increased freight costs, or the cost of fuel being more expensive due to a longer amount of time on the road with the engine running.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by ltd

Be ignorant as long as you like, and advocate the 25kmh limit, just don't expect anyone to care when you complain about the cost of goods going up due to increased freight costs, or the cost of fuel being more expensive due to a longer amount of time on the road with the engine running.

Not buying into the argument but this statement is a doozie! :

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by GMH8TR

Not buying into the argument but this statement is a doozie! :

Actually, to be fair, his statement - is certainly recognised in financial terms at government level. The Commonwealth via ATSB undertook studies for a 130km/h proposal for some national routes using 'technology' like VMS to signal so. Key parts of the argument for doing so are certainly based on cost benefit analysis. Such financial analysis applies to all roads, those with value get greater funding and other attention, etc and so on.

[Scott]

Ok, gotta buy in just a little.

On the "assumtion" that an average School Zone is 250m long, we are talking about the difference in time of:

40km/h - 22.5 seconds or
25km/h - 36 seconds

How will that 13.5 second's impact freight costs? Even if a freight crowd drive through 20 School Zones a day it would still only total less than 5 minutes more! I wonder how much more fuel a freight driver would actually use for 5 minutes of driving at 25km/h (assuming he goes through 20/day mind).

40km/h = safe
25km/h = revenue raising

As for the 130km/h suggestion, that would have an impact but it's hardly relevant (edit - to the 40km or 25km discussion anyway).

[FPV8U]

40Km/h is slow enough, as a student last year driving to school, i found the same thing as fantz with people sitting up my @$$, trying to go around me, imagine it evan further reduced!

I think 40Km/h was a good idea around primary schools but aroud High schools it's a bit stupid, i think my mates and i should be smart enough by the age of 17 to judge crossing a road, Not having a dig at the law, saying at our age we should be able to do such things without such systoms inplace.

By the way before the 40Km/h speeds were brought in nobody had been hit at my school in years, after they were brought in, 4 people were hit, problem is people watching there speedo too much instead of the road.

[svo347]

Great i can see it now, freight trains no longer 100km/hr speed limited.

[Scott]

FPV8U - probably right there with the "watching the speedo".

[Scott]

Originally Posted by svo347

Great i can see it now, freight trains no longer 100km/hr speed limited.

I see a lot of stickers on a lot of trucks doing a lot more than 100! But still, not very relevant to this thread.

[XLS99 Ute man]

this world is just turning ИИИИed

[svo347]

Originally Posted by GMH8TR

I see a lot of stickers on a lot of trucks doing a lot more than 100! But still, not very relevant to this thread.

The Commonwealth via ATSB undertook studies for a 130km/h proposal for some national routes using 'technology' like VMS to signal so.

you were saying

[Scott]

Nup, you lost me. I don't follow?

[UNR8D]

Mate, I didn't say that flashing lights would not get your attention. I asked if an alert driver really needed such a device. You can read other road signs without flashing lights, can't you?

yes but also in your post you were relating it to stopsign's etc, stopsigns dont go on 4 weeks holiday or have certain times throughout the day when they are not stopsign's, but schoolzones are 2-3 hour periods during the day and have about 16 weeks in the year when they are not in use, hence the lights to tell other motorists when they ARE in use.

[Kenster]

if we end up going 25km/h during school zone oh i prefer getting out of the car and walking it i will get quicker than the car would or put my car on neture and just let it roll

[Psycho Chicken]

Hands up everyone who had someone Dunloped while they were at school?

Why not teach the kids something. I know when I was at primary school the whole look both ways before crossing the road was drilled into our heads. You got in trouble for not using the crossing. Or are we just going for the cheaper option now days?

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with 40kph. But when we have to keep limiting things it's starting to get beyond a joke.

To add to that, drive through a school zone at 3pm. Watch how many of the stupid mothers in 4WDs just blindly speed along, or abuse you for doing 40kph. Perhaps they need a good kick up the ИИИИ.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Hands up everyone who had someone Dunloped while they were at school?

Why not teach the kids something. I know when I was at primary school the whole look both ways before crossing the road was drilled into our heads. You got in trouble for not using the crossing. Or are we just going for the cheaper option now days?

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with 40kph. But when we have to keep limiting things it's starting to get beyond a joke.

To add to that, drive through a school zone at 3pm. Watch how many of the stupid mothers in 4WDs just blindly speed along, or abuse you for doing 40kph. Perhaps they need a good kick up the ИИИИ.

Agree 100%

[all4ford]

I dont have any problem with doing the 40km/h or even slower between the set times for the school zones. However, I think they should only apply to primary schools. Its an absolute joke if a 12+ year old in high school cannot safely cross the road by themselves!!

[merlin]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

Well i guess im the only one who thinks this idea is completely ridiculous, just like the 40kmh zones.

I completley agree with you. The problem is in that they take a "one size fits all approach". There are schools around Sydney that are on 4 lane highways (80km/h limit), pedestrian access is fenced off and there is a special bridge to cross the road, complete with speed camera - hmm guess what its still 40km/h during school hours which is BS. Then again I pass a school zone that is on a small 2 lane backstreet with parked cars either side and kids everywhere - I crawl through at about 10km/h. It's just common sense. 40 is slow enough, if you can't react at 40 you shouldnt be on the road.

[pauljh74]

The 40 limit should stay and electronic signs should be installed that can be set automatically for custom times or manually switched on and off for when the kids actually come out of school. I drive through a school zone on the way to work and have to drive through at 40 while all the kids are inside still. Some days they finish early so a switchable sign system - like a higher tech version of the orange children crossing signs could be used to display the lower speed limit when children are actually about. 9:00-9:30 and 2:30-3pm is typically unnecessary as if you drive past on school days at these times, they are usually in class like they should be.

In primary school the crossing at my school had a crossing supervisor and if anyone crossed away from the crossing, they'd blow the whistle at you to make you aware it's not acceptable. The kids accepted this person's authority rather than talk back because they knew they were wrong. If a car went through the crossing when the lady had her stop sign out, or was driving too fast for the small street, the rego of the offending vehicle would be noted. In high school if anyone crossed the main road without using the overpass and was busted, they copped detention. A popular bus stop was on the other side of the road near a crossing on a main road. I never heard of one incident where anyone got hit in the 6 years I was there.
On top of that in the 70's/80's the public campaign about how to safely cross the road kept kids of all ages safer as they followed the simple steps.

The school zones on major arterial roads are a joke as the kids and even adults simply should not be setting foot on the road at any time at any place other than the crossing. A couple of examples are a 6 lane road being cut from 70 to 40km/h when the kids exit the school from the side street only (Ferntree Gully Rd & Springvale road Mulgrave), or the 80km/h zone cut to 60 despite the fact the school kids exit onto the service road and are right near the crossing (Princes Hwy & Browns Rd Noble Park)

The governments now would prefer to make money from "road safety" rather than spend money on it.

[coyote]

If only the flashing lights actually we flashing at the right time
Went through a school zone this morning at 8.45 and the lights wern't working. (Daikaben)

On a side note it is the Mothers/Fathers in their Toorak (Kenmore) Tractors you have to watch for, they will do a whole lot more damage to your car than little jonny walking out in front of you

Note attempted humor please don't shoot me

[DivHunter]

If they want to enforce school zones they should do it right.

How annoying is someone going 40 on a 60-80 road well outside the hours / on weekends / school holidays? Just how retarded is the general population? Can't they tell the time? Can't they see that the school is completely empty and the skate parks are filled with emo wannabe semi-homosexuals wearing jeans 3 sizes too small?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by coyote

On a side note it is the Mothers/Fathers in their Toorak (Kenmore) Tractors you have to watch for, they will do a whole lot more damage to your car than little jonny walking out in front of you

Note attempted humor please don't shoot me

: Prudent point, hadn't really thought of it that way.

[TheSneakiness]

My stance on this is that 25km/h would be good in a Primary School zone, just because they're not used to being pedestrians in traffic, and gives them some sort of idea of awareness.

High school kids should be subject to 60km/h zones. On my way to work, there's a long sweeping rising bend before the high school with some lights for crossing. My gripe is that the 40km/h zome doesn't come in until around 100mt from the lights, and lasts another 100mt after the lights, so the signs are in there for 200mt all up. Why slow down traffic for 200mt for kids who ought to know better?

It's not our fault that they think crossing at the lights is for little kids. If they truly valued their lives, and got rid of their ridiculous egos, then we wouldn't need the 40km/h zones.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by ltd

Seriously though, I believe instead of making us all Nanny states, we should focus on educating the children more than forcing drivers to go below 40kph.
For instance, I remember when I was a child we were taught by our school teachers and parents how to cross the road. There were also ads on during the hours that kids would normally be watching tv to reiterate to them with witty jingles the rules for crossing the road. This was by far more effective than any speed zones and quite frankly, it was almost unheard of at the time, that kids were struck down crossing the road.
Now, it's all about shifting responsibility to a third party ie the drivers.

IMO speed limits around schools should be 60kph. They were when I was at school and this was per ABS! I, like the rest of my school friends were not hit by cars. Why? We were taught of the dangers of the road. Unlike today.
I refer you to the latest TAC commercial where the girl gets hit. They change one fact of 5klms and she only gets bruses. How about you look both ways and get no injuries at all!

This makes me soo angry. Look Left and right. No injury then!

[ltd]

Damn right!

[pandaman]

Originally Posted by slipper

So, if one of the signs is hidden by a tree (and there is usually more than one), you have no other clues? What about lots of kids in uniform, lollipop ladies (persons?), the traffic chaos of a thousand Pajeros vying for poll position?

The main problem as I see it is not the times around 0900 and 1500 when you've got people everywhere, at those times you'd be lucky to crack 5Km/h at the local school just because of the traffic. At other times you might not even notice the school is there, there are a couple of school zones in canberra where I cannnot tell where the school is, dead serious, I just cannot see any school buildings! If the signs are obscured by trees (fairly common in our obsessively green capital) you wouldn't have a clue.

There is even more potential for confusion. In the ACT, school zones are enforced right through the school day, in NSW it's from 0830-1000 and 1430-1600 if i remember correctly. School holidays are often different between the states as well. So flashing lights indicating when the school zone is in effect would be incredibly convenient, not necessarily to alert you that there is a school there, but to alert you that the school zone speed limit is in effect. Or alternatively the states could standardise when school zones are effective, but I suppose that would be too easy.

[Scott]

Pandaman - Much as I hate the fact that ACT School Zones operate all day, I find it easier to live with than when I lived in Sydney with the Morning/Afternoon schedule. I don't have to look at my watch in the ACT, I just know its 40km zone.