4 day week at Holdens

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'll probably find most of them are non operating entities.. The company I work for has a legal entity that is not used anymore, but we keep it because it is cheaper to keep it, then legally wind it up for some reason.. Not sure what the reasons are, a bit over me head to be honest

You'll probably find that if they ever wind up the company you work for, the assets are in one entity, and you were employed by the entity with no assets.

But it does raise the question of which bit runs which bit. I know GM USA own GM AUST, which then owns GM Holden. But does GM Holden just own the manufacturing parts of Holden in Aust, and GM Holden Sales own the importing side. Thus if we only heard what GM Holden profit was, then the sales entity may have lost $200 million too (because they always refer to Holden, and not GM Australia).

[dannyhilton]

My guess is Holden is pinning all their hopes on the Cruze. I recently was in a meeting with the big players in our head office, the big bosses, and they were talking about fleet deals in relation to the Cruze. I said Holden were month away from releasing info, but they've already approached nation fleet departments regarding their interest in the Cruze as a future rep car. Naturally, our head office said if it was cheap, reliable, didn't use as much fuel as a Commodore and could handle our conditions, they'd have our business. So it could be goodbye XR6 fleets, and hello to a fleet of Cruzes for our work force *shivers down spine*

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Don’t agree with that. Best way to look at the underlying profit of a business is to look at the Profit, less any one off transactions (depreciation is not one, redundancy packs is a good example).. And this is why companies report to the public this way... They say we loss 230M, but take out the off transactions & we made xxx.

Depreciation is not a "free" expense, as some people seem to make it out to be.. If you own a machine that is worth 10K today & in 12 months time, it is only worth 5K, that machine has costed you 5K in that year. This is what deprecation is doing. Just like if you bought brand new machine today worth 10K, it goes on the balance sheet & does not affect Profit..

What you might be talking about is a "Statement of Cash" which lists all the movements of cash. This statement has nothing in common with a P&L & would not show deprecation, but would show the 10K for the new machine bought I mentioned above. Only Aust publicly listed companies (I think that is the law anyway) need to report that statement to the public. Therefore, local subsidiary of a US listed company will not release this statement. I'm not sure if the US has something similar, which would capture Ford in total??

Say what? When you depreciate plant you reduce the asset value and increase the exoense. One is balance sheet one is P&L. Yes I was being simplistic about the cash at bank, but if you do indeed have a $300 reported loss EBIT and your depreciation expense is $400, chances are the cash at bank of $100 +- debtor loading. I guess I should have also have included cash advance from loans, but I'm sure you understood my general drift = loans are not part of P&L.

Depreciation is a cash free expense, no way around that.

I think although both Holden and Ford Oz do some sought of financials for the OZ Govt, I'm not sure really if they mean much.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Wally

Say what? When you depreciate plant you reduce the asset value and increase the exoense. One is balance sheet one is P&L. Yes I was being simplistic about the cash at bank, but if you do indeed have a $300 reported loss EBIT and your depreciation expense is $400, chances are the cash at bank of $100 +- debtor loading. I guess I should have also have included cash advance from loans, but I'm sure you understood my general drift = loans are not part of P&L.

Depreciation is a cash free expense, no way around that.

I think although both Holden and Ford Oz do some sought of financials for the OZ Govt, I'm not sure really if they mean much.

I never said loans where part of the P&L..

And my point about depreciation is that it is not something accountants use to create a "false" loss.. It is a real expense to the business!! The fact cash was not exchanged in the year it is reported is meaning less... Cash transcations have nothing to do with Profit or loss.

[Wally]

I wasn't implying you considered loans wre part of the P&L, but the other poster was. I was merely pulling him up on some basics, then manouvering around your post. All in all, between the two of us, we could probably put that old chestnut about Govt loans to bed..., but I doubt it.

The depreciation thing is a paradox for P&L. Grant money goes into the balance sheet for plant and equipment then gets depreciated as an expense to reduce the profit, so it's almost like the better the grant the smaller the profit, but cash blossoms.

[GrimmReaper09]

With all this messing around they are doing I am just waiting for then to go the same way as Mitsubishi in Adelaide.

Will suck for all the employees losing their job but......

MAJOR party at my place when it finally goes under.
:the_finge::the_finge::the_finge

[prydey]

Originally Posted by GrimmReaper09

With all this messing around they are doing I am just waiting for then to go the same way as Mitsubishi in Adelaide.

Will suck for all the employees losing their job but......

MAJOR party at my place when it finally goes under.
:the_finge::the_finge::the_finge

if holden go under, its more than just employees that are out of work. suddenly many parts suppliers also lose a mojor buyer so they are trying to stay afloat selling a fraction of parts they used to. a lot of them won't and could also go belly up. parts suppliers go belly up and guess who that affects... yep, FORD. If holden go under, it could almost spell the end of the aussie auto manufacturing industry.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by GrimmReaper09

With all this messing around they are doing I am just waiting for then to go the same way as Mitsubishi in Adelaide.

Will suck for all the employees losing their job but......

MAJOR party at my place when it finally goes under.
:the_finge::the_finge::the_finge

Must be heap's cool still living at home with mummy and daddy......

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

if holden go under, its more than just employees that are out of work. suddenly many parts suppliers also lose a mojor buyer so they are trying to stay afloat selling a fraction of parts they used to. a lot of them won't and could also go belly up. parts suppliers go belly up and guess who that affects... yep, FORD. If holden go under, it could almost spell the end of the aussie auto manufacturing industry.

I don't want any of the local manufacturers to fold but if it does happen,
the industry will find a way to get through...

[prydey]

i was basically just pointing out the demise of holden, if it ever hapened, would affect much more than just holden employees.

[phillyc]

A good way to make an operating profit like GM Holden claim (according to their filings) they did in 2009 is to reduce output and sell excess stock.

Well last year they slashed production and they also had 20,000-25,000 excess stock of 2008 VE which they flogged off for as little as $26,990 (driveaway in March 2009.) but on average $30k driveaway.

If you can't make money, by selling off 20,000 cars at $30k, which is $600M in revenue BTW which was paid for the previous year. Then you won't with that business model and that environment.

Even allowing for the 4month payments to their suppliers which meant some of that cost went into the 2009 calender year, you've still got a bucket of previously paid for cars/money.

I hope GM Holden survive as a manufacturer in the country, it's just this sort of wheeling-dealing really peeves me. Put simply, they don't have the money to lay off staff, so they haven't. But bave puffed up with "yeah were planning on adding a second shift one day in the future."

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by prydey

i was basically just pointing out the demise of holden, if it ever hapened, would affect much more than just holden employees.

Exactly. It wold effect Ford and Toyota. I think it would be hard for those two to survive locally if Holden went down.

[bobthebilda]

Its probably Toyota that everyone has to be more concerned about. They make about as many cars in oz as Ford and Holden combined, but sell a small percentage of them in oz. Only 8000 Camrys and Aurions were sold in oz in first three months of this year (the rest exported). A simple decision in Japan that these exports could be taken up with some slack in other overseas plants that make camry's, and the whole industry goes. Max Yusada said a while ago that the high australian dollar might make exports uncompetitive, and that was when the australian dollar was at 75 US cents.