2010 Falcon/Territory (speculation) - Page 3

JPFS1 · 06-05-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Surely if Ford introduce liquid injection then that qualifies as a green car? Due to the low emissions?

As I said, you can thank Toyota! It's not that it's not Green, it's just that they are now scrutinising every dollar and how they intend to spend it, because if there's the slightest inkling that the manufacturer was going to spend the money on the development without the grant (hello Toyota!), then say good night.

vztrt · 06-05-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Surely if Ford introduce liquid injection then that qualifies as a green car? Due to the low emissions?

Currently the petrol motor (coupled with the 6 speed) is has lower emission's then the LPG motor. The commodore with the duel fuel is lower then both Falcons. The petrol motor is higher yet has a better 'green rating'.

But you would think that the liquid injection I6 would be much more green.

ST · 06-05-2009, 06:05 PM

Is the 5.0 Coyote going to be a completely aussie motor built from scratch or is it from the US or what? Is there any pages or articles with info on it?

Road_Warrior · 06-05-2009, 06:27 PM

US made I would imagine, although there is a question mark over 'local content' of the motor. One of the GoAuto articles quoted Rod Barrett as saying that the motor will be assembled here.

Thunderbird · 06-05-2009, 10:24 PM

"US made I would imagine, although there is a question mark over 'local content' of the motor."

.. is this of interest.. a "green" one too...

and from the back..

Paxton · 06-05-2009, 10:30 PM

Taurus≠Falcon.

Even a Ford Euro Chief has stated this.

Quote:

Ford’s European design chief cool on Taurus as a replacement for rear-drive Falcon

By MARTON PETTENDY 27 April 2009
FORD’S European design director has thrown cold water on the possibility of the new Taurus replacing the Falcon.

Speaking at last week’s Shanghai motor show, Martin Smith said that while he believed the overall design of the Taurus large sedan would hypothetically be well accepted in Australia, it could never constitute a direct replacement.

“I’m not a marketing person but I think that car (the Taurus) has been very successful in the US. It has a lot of the strong design attributes that I think in my visits to Australia the Australian customer appreciates.

“But it’s a front-wheel-drive car. It’s not a replacement for a rear-wheel-drive vehicle.”

Mr Smith tempered his statement by cautioning that as Ford of Europe’s chief designer he was responsible “only” for applying sheetmetal to chassis architectures, but his comments could reflect the general view of Australia’s Falcon within senior Ford management globally.

As we reported last week, Ford Australia president Marin Burela said the future of the next-generation Falcon, due to emerge around 2013, will be decided – but not necessarily made public – next year.

Mr Burela all but ruled out the next Falcon again being an Australian-designed model just for Australia, which appears to leave Ford Australia with the option of basing the next Falcon on either a new global rear-wheel-drive platform, the development of which is currently on hold, or on the front/all-wheel-drive Taurus platform.

Alternatively, Ford Australia could simply import the Taurus and rebadge it as the new Falcon, but Mr Smith’s comments appear to rule out at least the latter Taurus option.

Asked what the future held for Ford Australia’s Falcon, Mr Smith said: “Where the future of the Falcon is in the current environment I wouldn’t want to speculate.”

Mr Smith said the FG Falcon was another example of how the company’s kinetic design language was attempting to visually link Ford models around the globe, in line with Ford Motor Company president Alan Mulally’s ‘One Ford’ design directive.

“The modifications to the (FG) Falcon recently were done to try and make the car less isolated in its environment, let’s say,” he said.

“We’ve been encouraged by Alan Mulally to create One Ford and he stated that he’d like to recognise a new Ford in any country that he stepped off an aeroplane (from) rather than … and creating a global family with a global look and that was done by the design team in Australia to fulfil that wish, to try and link the Falcon a little bit more closely.

“Because up until that declaration was made the Falcon was basically an independent entity. It was designed specifically and very successfully for the Australian market, and we as a design team we all agreed with Scott Strong in Australia that it would be a good initiative to try and mate that car a little bit more closely to other products around the globe,” he said.

Mr Smith said Ford had enough global models to continue to meet the needs of Australian vehicle consumers.

“When it (Falcon) was in its prime they used to call it (Ford) the Falcon Company of Australia, but as you see more and more vehicles being imported into Australia - I believe the Mondeo is a success and I think the Fiesta is just being introduced to the market.

“I think obviously Australian customers are going to come under the same sort of pressure as American customers are in terms of gas prices.

“Just as in North America we see a certain amount of downsizing, to the point where people will be wanting to buy a small car where five years ago no one ever would do, and I think that same trend will become evident in Australia. (But) I think we have enough products around the world to satisfy a Ford customer in Australia,” he said.

The next Falcon, after Orion, is already on the drawing board.

Road_Warrior · 06-05-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

[CENTER]

Panel alignment fail

Paxton · 06-05-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Panel alignment fail

It just looks like the boot is open.

Falc'man · 06-05-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Taurus≠Falcon.

Even a Ford Euro Chief has stated this.

The next Falcon, after Orion, is already on the drawing board.

:

No such fing as a FWD Falcon.

Swordsman88 · 06-05-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

The next Falcon, after Orion, is already on the drawing board.

Ah but is that drawing board in australia, or dearborn andrew??

i think with the situation we have now with GFC, it will be either:

1. Continual aussie only falcon, with possible exports to Mid East (no crown vic no more) and/or asia and uk (niche model)

2. GRWD off an aussie falcon base design. Built here plus in the US with different top hat designs for diff. markets. Integrations of engines in this option is a go, with duratec finally supplanting I6. 3.7 V6 in DI form will do this nicely i think.

Engines will inlude coyote V8 (5.0L) in various forms, NA and Turbo I6, then Duratec with ecoboost later. Liquid LPG with diesel for territory.

I think a FWD falcon will never happen. Falcon may dies off and be replaced by a taurus/mondeo large FWD/AWD car before that happens.

Gobes32 · 07-05-2009, 08:56 AM

Option 2 would be nice. If Ford pull out of all this financial mess then a grwd may be back on the drawing board. Only time will tell.

Jason[98.EL] · 07-05-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Option 2 would be nice. If Ford pull out of all this financial mess then a grwd may be back on the drawing board. Only time will tell.

yes it will be good

myswing on this about the grwd

could the reason that ford are continuing with the rear wheel drive falcon be that they are going to use the falcon platform for the grwd

just my thoughts

Jason

Gobes32 · 07-05-2009, 09:20 AM

Ford US is aware of how good the FG series is and how well the chassis drives. If a GRWD was ever implemented then it is a given that Ford Oz will do the engineering for it. However, this almost certainly spells the end for the I6 because a global car requires a global engine.........

Jason[98.EL] · 07-05-2009, 09:31 AM

yes gobes i understand that as well

is there no way that the I6 can become the global 6 ??

or would it be to much work or we cant keep up with production #s ???

Jason

Gobes32 · 07-05-2009, 11:18 AM

My take on this is that the engine plant can produce a maximum 100,000 units a year. It is therefore impossible for them to keep up with international demand. Someone else on the forum also mentioned that you would have to teach mechanics all over the world how to repair the I6 as opposed to having a global V6 that supposedly everyone already knows.

Road_Warrior · 07-05-2009, 11:24 AM

But every time a new motor is released they have to teach the stealerships how to deal with the new motor, it's what being a mechanic is all about, learning and keeping your skills up to date.

But yeah, I don't think our plant would be able to satisfy international demand, another forum member said that during the BA days they were running at full capacity at the engine plant, so there would have to be another offshore engine plant to meet international demand, and then there is still the lingering question over emissions compliance with overseas markets etc.

**Raptor** · 07-05-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

....
is there no way that the I6 can become the global 6 ??
....

I would love to see our I6 pitched to the yanks as the 'eco' choice in a new down-sized F-Truck (new age F-100) but apparently that's dead in the water too. With its gobs of low-down torque (in NA and turbo versions) it would have made those V6's look a bit silly

:

The next Ford Ranger/Mazda BT-50 is being developed here by Ford Aus (code T6).

Road_Warrior · 07-05-2009, 01:05 PM

So are there any substantial styling changes to the 2010 Falcon or is it just Euro 4 certification and a new V8 and that's all? Looking at the Taurus pics makes me think they could make the Falcon resemble that car a little more closely. Even though I wouldnt have thought FoA had the $$$ to spend on styling updates, I would have thought it to be like the BA-BF change.

vztrt · 07-05-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

So are there any substantial styling changes to the 2010 Falcon or is it just Euro 4 certification and a new V8 and that's all? Looking at the Taurus pics makes me think they could make the Falcon resemble that car a little more closely. Even though I wouldnt have thought FoA had the $$$ to spend on styling updates, I would have thought it to be like the BA-BF change.

Would be little to none for the Falcon as the FG is still new.
The next big FoA product is the Territory.

SB076 · 07-05-2009, 01:43 PM

I would suggest that the changes to the falcon would be done to reflect Ford's one Ford policy, therefore you can expect to see some of the 2011 Focus design elements incorporated into the Falcon.

JPFS1 · 07-05-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Would be little to none for the Falcon as the FG is still new.
The next big FoA product is the Territory.

I believe there should be changes for Falcon yes.

But Territory is where it's at.

R-Design · 13-05-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

The current mail on Territory, is that, once the Diesel Territroy arrives, Territory will be Diesel only, as there are too many added complexities in having two engines in Teeritory. Not the best news.

Ford's confirmed that they're looking at Diesel for Territory, but not at the expense of the petrol model.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2009...erritory-15113

Road_Warrior · 14-05-2009, 12:09 AM

Well then. It would seem that the spooks at FoA's skunkworks (as well as the Carpoint/Carsales journos) are keeping a close eye on what is said here.

Interesting to read (between the lines) that the Euro 4 update may be so insignificant that an "update" model in it's true form (for the Falcon) may not occur until much later.

JPFS1 · 14-05-2009, 12:49 AM

Did anybody actually believe that they'd dump the petrol variant??

There's so much misinformation around it becomes laughable.

Swordsman88 · 14-05-2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Did anybody actually believe that they'd dump the petrol variant??

There's so much misinformation around it becomes laughable.

I didn't.......it was just so unlikely for a huge range of reasons. But then again you get the odd crazy rumour in the car business that have elements of truth....

vztrt · 14-05-2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Did anybody actually believe that they'd dump the petrol variant??

There's so much misinformation around it becomes laughable.

No, for two reasons.

1. People still believe that Diesels are smell, dirty truck engines so that would turn customers off.
2. The more models the I6 is in the cheaper it is in terms of spreading the R&D costs.

Joe5619 · 14-05-2009, 09:22 AM

Dumb question.. If the conversion of the FG Inline6 to Euro 4 is so easy & cheap.. What are Ford spending the millions of dollors they got from the government to upgrade the engine?

Why even bother just going to Euro 4 standards & not go for Euro 5? Your developing now, why not go straight to Euro 5 standards & have a advantage over Holden?

**Raptor** · 14-05-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Did anybody actually believe that they'd dump the petrol variant??....

No, well I hoped they wouldn't be that stupid anyway

:

Still, it doesn't hurt to throw these wild rumnour out there and see how the market responds ;)

Eu-GenixX · 14-05-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Dumb question.. If the conversion of the FG Inline6 to Euro 4 is so easy & cheap.. What are Ford spending the millions of dollors they got from the government to upgrade the engine?

Why even bother just going to Euro 4 standards & not go for Euro 5? Your developing now, why not go straight to Euro 5 standards & have a advantage over Holden?

where do you get the conversion of the I6 will be cheap?

that was the reason they were dumping the engine for the V6.. it was cheaper to import .. i think.. ?. heh

Road_Warrior · 14-05-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Did anybody actually believe that they'd dump the petrol variant??

There's so much misinformation around it becomes laughable.

I sure as hell didnt. I think I said a couple of pages back I'd find it difficult to believe Ford would alienate most of it's Territory customer base by dropping the I6 (not to mention damage the throughput capacity of the engine plant).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Dumb question.. If the conversion of the FG Inline6 to Euro 4 is so easy & cheap.. What are Ford spending the millions of dollors they got from the government to upgrade the engine?

Why even bother just going to Euro 4 standards & not go for Euro 5? Your developing now, why not go straight to Euro 5 standards & have a advantage over Holden?

R&D doesnt come cheap, that $21 Million will more than likely be consumed purely for the Euro 4 changes. There might be a bit more spent on follow-on changes but it will be a while before we know about those (if ever).

Why carry out all the R&D and cost associated with making the engine Euro 5 compliant when it isnt even mandated in Australia yet? It's not going to have any 'advantage' over Holden other than fanboy ****ing rights so they'd be wise to leave that well enough alone. I doubt very much whether the I6 could be modified to meet Euro 5 anyway -the tailpipe emissions targets are pretty extreme, especially for big motors.