What does Ford have to do to sell their cars?

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The great thing about the dealership network is the choice it gives you or competition... bad service sends customers to other dealerships, i wouldnt have thought it shouldnt effect brand choice though..

Except when you live in rural Australia and the next Ford dealer is hours away. Then you still shop around, just not at Ford.

[Pinch]

Shopping around at Ford dealers (in a number of areas, in 2 different states) for me only reinforced that most dealers do not want to sell cars. Not quite sure what that makes their core business then??? While I buy a car mainly on the technical merit and what I want it for, for me, new Fords are out of the question at the moment. Refer signature below. Both Mini (BMW) and Subaru were, and importantly - continue to be fantastic. There is just over $75K there that didn't go to Ford. Over a decade with a few new Fords, I realised just how much I was banging my head against a wall. Ford cars are great, very little else of the ownership experience is though (or was for me). I will stick with ones I can look after myself until they get their sales and after-sales service act together.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Some evidence will be good.

From what I've read, Holden's/HSV's V8 sales have never been higher.

There's your problem, believing what you read...

My info came straight from a senior Holden staff member, who frankly is worried.... HSV are doing fine for the moment, where as holden can't give their V8 powered variants away...

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

There's your problem, believing what you read...

My info came straight from a senior Holden staff member, who frankly is worried.... HSV are doing fine for the moment, where as holden can't give their V8 powered variants away...

Fine, but I'm not silly enough to believe you over the sales stats.

Thats a new one. 4Vman has friends high up at Holden. Is that similar to the story you told about the LS2 burnt valve issue... that was unadulterated nonsense, too!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Fine, but I'm not silly enough to believe you over the sales stats.

Thats a new one. 4Vman has friends high up at Holden. Is that similar to the story you told about the LS2 burnt valve issue... that was unadulterated nonsense, too!

Please.. don't go there, i'll back my credibility around here and accuracy of sources against yours any day of the week.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Please.. don't go there, i'll back my credibility around here and accuracy of sources against yours any day of the week.

There's nothing like having some credibility, I admit. But when you state things like they're facts when reality doesn't exactly correspond... well you are effectively shooting yourself in the foot. Like I said, I'll back the sales stats.

So you are effectively saying the published sales stats are fabricated? Is that correct?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

There's nothing like having some credibility, I admit. But when you state things like they're facts when reality doesn't exactly correspond... well you are effectively shooting yourself in the foot. Like I said, I'll back the sales stats.

So you are effectively saying the published sales stats are fabricated? Is that correct?

What published sales stats? show me a break down of Holdens orders for V8 powered cars for this month/last month?
Let me repeat myself, a senior holden staff member told me directly yesterday that V8 sales have hit a brick wall, and they're worried.
The plant is building virtually no V8 powered vehicles.
Forget what happened a few months ago or last year.. im talking today, right here right now. Do Holden even break sales history by engne variant and make it public anyway?

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What published sales stats? show me a break down of Holdens orders for V8 powered cars for this month?
Let me repeat myself, a senior holden staff member told me directly that V8 sales have hit a brick wall, and they're worried.

Forget what happened a few months ago or last year.. im talking today, right here right now. Do Holden even break sales history by engne variant and make it public anyway?

As I don't rely on 'orders' as you so conveniently put it... I can't give them to you... but what if I reflect on V8 sales in a month or two? If they show V8 sales have halted, then I'll concede to your 'integrity'. Otherwise, then either you are telling fibs or have been misled.

I've got another idea, how about you get your Holden buddy to show you the 'ordered' figures instead? Surely, if he is that high up, he can give you the figures and you can scan them and post them up?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

As I don't rely on 'orders' as you so conveniently put it... I can't give them to you... but what if I reflect on V8 sales in a month or two? If they show V8 sales have halted, then I'll concede to your 'integrity'. Otherwise, then either you are telling fibs or have been misled.

I've got another idea, how about you get your Holden buddy to show you the 'ordered' figures instead? Surely, if he is that high up, he can give you the figures and you can scan them and post them up?

The only thing you seem to be able to give me is "fanboy" biased opinion while taking a swipe at my credibility...
At least im talking to people who know. :

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The only thing you seem to be able to give me is "fanboy" biased opinion while taking a swipe at my credibility...
At least im talking to people who know. :

Nothing fanboyish about it... I can give you sales stats, no problem. What I am hoping you are able to do is follow up with facts to back your statements up.

I dare say V8 sales are strong all round (F & H) but you have 'strong' information suggesting otherwise. Again, could you please post this information, 4Vman?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Nothing fanboyish about it... I can give you sales stats, no problem. What I am hoping you are able to do is follow up with facts to back your statements up.

I dare say V8 sales are strong all round (F & H) but you have 'strong' information suggesting otherwise. Again, could you please post this information, 4Vman?

Are you slow or something? what didn't you understand about my statement:

"a senior holden staff member told me directly yesterday that V8 sales have hit a brick wall, and they're worried."

He told me directly that the plant were producing virtually no V8's to order.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Are you slow or something? what didn't you understand about my statement:

"a senior holden staff member told me directly yesterday that V8 sales have hit a brick wall, and they're worried."

Let's say I am slow.

Now where's that broken record... Would it be too much for you to obtain the figures from the Holden high-up and post the V8 orders, to back up your statement?

[Falcon Coupe]

Would it be too much trouble to get back on topic or take it to pm.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yep, Ive had bad experiences with dealerships too when i was buying, all it did was just make me do my homework on what i wanted and shopped it around on price, at the end of the day i only had to tollerate them long enough to sign the order and pick the car up, i wasnt there to make life long friends....

Spot on, when I bought my FPV I knew what I wanted, I rang the local FPV dealer put a deposit on the car over the phone, sent about three emails for an update on delivery and then spent 45 minutes at the dealer when I picked it up.

I've never understood people looking for a "car buying experience"!

[XRtowcar]

DENNIS DENUTO, LAWYER IN THE CASTLE: In summing up, it's the Constitution, it's Mabo, it's justice, it's law, it's the vibe and --

No, that's it.

It's the vibe!

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Spot on, when I bought my FPV I knew what I wanted, I rang the local FPV dealer put a deposit on the car over the phone, sent about three emails for an update on delivery and then spent 45 minutes at the dealer when I picked it up.

I've never understood people looking for a "car buying experience"!

I could give a rats about a car buying experience, but I do want value for my money and value for my trade, which Ford could not deliver me.

[snappy]

The simple answer is make a car that people want.
Not tell you what car you want to bye.
In my opinion there two categories putting it simply

1 .performance
2. economy

Whilst making beutifull cars to drive
The have done a half a#*sd job to meet those catergries (imo). For me performance is the key factor i will not buy the fg because im not spending 25k on top of trade in to get 30kw upgrade less for fpv versions. Give me somthing to be excited about and i part with my hard earned.

[glennb]

I think Fords Advertising campaign lets them down. They have a great car now with good fuel economy but i have never seen a commercial that has made me want to go and by one. I'm someone who does my home work on a car but most people dont and go of what they see on TV. Ford has always been a bit behind in the advertising campaign compared to Holden. They need to put into some commercial why they are a a great car and make the commercial leaving with you with the wow factor and a shiver down your spine. You can sell anybody anything if your good enough.

[Jayden]

Holden markets their cars much better, coupe 60 etc. all generates publicity. The first time I saw the FG was the XR8 they had on display at the Bigpond 400. Between the lift kit, its overall grey blandness compared to everything around it that day and the fact it was dirty as hell all left a pretty bad first impression. Im trying to work out if they even wanted it at the V8SC, like it wasn't their market this time.

[SSbaby]

Too much is being made of the marketing side. Tell me peoples, when's the last time you saw an ad for the WRX on TV? Yet that vehicle has no end of devotees and always draws healthy respect. This translates to traffic at Subaru dealerships... and you don't need to tell me to tell you how that also engenders badge loyalty.

What more could Ford do in terms of marketing? Let's face it, Ford's aftersales is possibly the worst in the industry. That would scare many would-be Ford owners away and into Asian brands (as Holden isn't much better).

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Stefan

I've never understood people looking for a "car buying experience"!

Yet people do. I know what you are saying, because basically I do the research and sums as well before I buy a car, but I still expect the service and product knowledge from the dealers salesman too.

Why? Because I'm not buying a lawn mower. A modern car is the second largest expenditure I have next to my house. I expect service for that kind of money. Actually the lawn mower reference is in context too. The most product knowledgeable person I met was a lawnmower salesman!

Anyway my point is that most people aren't buyig a car because they really need one - that is the old car is life expired and not worth repairing. They are buying a new car for the experience and yes, the sales and service make a big part of that experience for a lot of people. Can't get around that. So Ford need to be competitive at that.

People are buying an experience. If they weren't cars like XR's and FPV's wouldn't sell. An XT Falcon is plenty good enough for what people really need after all.

Dan

[Smoke Pursuit]

Change their brand image.. People still associate Fords as being square boring cars (as per the XF - ED days...

[ltd]

Start suing the editors that always use Ford as their example of fuel inefficiency based on supposition and not veritable fact. Also, promote something dumb like world tree day like toyota where in a country affected by drought, we will plant more trees to lower the water table even further and exacerbate the problem.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Yet people do. I know what you are saying, because basically I do the research and sums as well before I buy a car, but I still expect the service and product knowledge from the dealers salesman too.

What sort of buying experience did you get when you bought your house?

I got none, but then I expected none. I was given the keys to the place I ended up buying, no sales pitch, no fancy schmancy when I exchanged contracts, and no hooplah when I picked up the keys.

When I received my last car though, a lot more fuss was made over it. Not that I actually cared if I would receive it or not.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Rodp

What sort of buying experience did you get when you bought your house?

I got none, but then I expected none. I was given the keys to the place I ended up buying, no sales pitch, no fancy schmancy when I exchanged contracts, and no hooplah when I picked up the keys.

When I received my last car though, a lot more fuss was made over it. Not that I actually cared if I would receive it or not.

Couple of inspections of house before we made final decision. Map of other houses for sales in area. Three other inspections of properties near by to see what was around in comparison. Few phones calls. Calander every year. Free valuation of the house couple of years ago. To be honest they still weren't the best agent I've done business with.

Local Ford dealer. Abused in forecourt by dealer principal for not buying car from him at at price thousands over what I ended up paying. Two legal letters threatening legal action against me and a take down notice to this forum. The list goes on and I do mean on and on. Thats just the highlights.

There was a bit of a difference.

The dealer I did buy from was good though. Problem is I shouldn't ever have been subjected to what happened locally and I should not have to go out of town to find a dealer who actually understands how to sell a car and treat a long term Ford customer in something approaching a civilised way.

Ads won't fix the experince I had. Research on a car won't fix that experience either. Ford getting serious about fixing the dealer network - will.

[S3SR]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Improve the dealer network...

i agree with that entirely

yeah ok and ad can be absolutely amazing, making you wet your pants, go into a dealership where the salesperson is an a-hole, wont sweeten the deal and dont give a stuff about you.... are you still gonna buy it because the ad was so great?

the ads are effective if it gets you talking about.... the ad doesnt sell the car, the dealer does

exact same where i work, in retail. any advertisement helps even the worst and boring ones and even stuff thats overpriced, because its product awareness people didnt know in the first place..... guess who does all the work to sell the item? ... me, the salesperson, the dealer.... they couldnt give a stuff about the ad they dont even remember half of it just that we exist and we sell what they wanted

thats what i know based on fact and experience

P.S. Ford ive reached my targets every time for almost 3 years, even had 3 people write in to the boss on how good i am.... ill come show how its done for no less than $150k a year with bonuses, fully maintained car and phone (must have foxtel as well) dont care for commission

[mr smith]

What more could Ford do in terms of marketing? Let's face it, Ford's aftersales is possibly the worst in the industry. That would scare many would-be Ford owners away and into Asian brands (as Holden isn't much better).[/QUOTE]


Plenty of upper management and dealer principals living in Ivory Towers. Read any history on the British motorcycle industry from the late sixtys/ early seventys and you can see the direct resemblance to the Ford and GM situation. They looked at the overseas companies as a joke and never took them serious, they warred with each other while the real threat was coming from behind. Both are f#*%ed.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Change their brand image.. People still associate Fords as being square boring cars (as per the XF - ED days...

I hope people don't flame me... but (maybe) consider dropping the 'Falcon' name altogether for something more 'trendy'. Where Falcon served the company well before, it's in need of a new name to attract a new audience.

Just my 2c.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I hope people don't flame me... but (maybe) consider dropping the 'Falcon' name altogether for something more 'trendy'. Where Falcon served the company well before, it's in need of a new name to attract a new audience.

Just my 2c.

And....... Your new suggested name would be????????????
Trendy eh?... How about Indiana, Skye, Dashiell or maybe Edsel???

[GTpilot]

untill FORD do something about the careless sales people, they will get knowhere. Lead times are crap too, to say sales are down, being told you will have to wait 6-8 weeks for a car is crap service.

I went with one of the company directors at work to test drive and he want to buy an F6. We went to a prominent outer SE Melb dealership. We walked in and spoke to a sales rep straight away, however this rep was not interested in us and said we need to speak with "x" "I'll go get him".

This person then disapeared, and was never seen by us again. 20min later this guy shows up."you guys right" was the opening statement, My director said, "I want to by an F6", "oh really, you do huh" was the response. "yep", we said. "We've been looking at XR6T, G6ET etc, but I have decided I want an F6". "good for you" was the response, you'll have to wait quite a while though, "What do you mean?" my boss asked. "These one right here next to us". Colour I want, Auto etc. Why can't I take this one?". "Nahh can't sell it to you, it the only one we have".. "Ok fair enough we thought, they wanted a showroom car." "Well can you see if any other dealers have any in, then perhaps you could get it in for us." I'd like to get it from you, I live around the area", my boss said. The Guy laughed, literally, "nope" was the response. "you want one, you can order it". but a cant say you'll have it within the next 2 mths, you can get on the phone and try other dealers if you want, up to you". ......"let me know if you want me to order one for you". He then walked off and left us standing there.

My boss was ready to buy , there and then, If the rep had even said, give me your number, I'll call around and see what I can do. The would have even been great. but no, he was not prepared to do so, even for a sale.

BTW, he picked up a 12mth old M3 last week for ~10K more than the F6 would have cost him. The dealer gave him free servicing incl basic parts and fluids for 2 yrs, Has ordered 4 brand new tyres (original spec) to put on. the car has 12,000 klm on it.