Ford Australia says it can’t afford an export version of its Territory large SUV

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Elks

On the contrary our government has encouraged a whole class of imported vehicles.

The Fringe Benefits Tax or FBT that is applied to company cars and the user chooser novated lease cars now applies at the rate of 20% per annum so on a $50,000 vehicle that's 10,000 per annum. Using the most commonly applied "statutory method". This was recently increased from its most commonly applied 11% ( for vehicles travelling $25,000+ km pa) by our Govt after pressure from the greens.

However, FBT does not apply to vehicles with a carrying capacity of 1 tonne or more, or a separate tray body. This is to exempt plumbers vans etc. Also excluded in this exemption therefore includes all the twin cab utes.

This manifests itself in a real world example, where my old work took all the sales reps out of Commodores and Camrys and put them in D-max twin cab utes because, despite the fact the were $10k dearer to buy, the FBT exemption made them cheaper overall.

This has driven demand, which has driven product improvements and viola, Ranger, Hilux, Triton BT50, ALL are now in the top ten selling cars in the country. That's not to mention, Colorado, Dmax and even the euros with Amorok. Are selling well. I wonder how long it will take Benz and BMW to get in on the act.?

So government policy can influence demand. It's just our government chose to send that demand offshore.

Well you can blame a lot of the FBT hike on people shamming company vehicles with
Novated leases for "company vehicles" that are merely private transport devices to and from work.
In their haste, they have now stitched up genuine higher mileage fleet vehicles unless you use
log book method to determine actual business percentage, most companies now avoid
paying FPT on behalf of employees and insist on non-FBT vehicles for business purposes.

We spent a decade convincing the tax department that a case existed to class high usage vehicles
the same as company vehicles and then everyone else jumped on board wanting a new vehicle tax free..

[GTP534]

It's more the journalism that I don't like, especially the way it's turned around that Ford is the party casting doubts on its operation.

People on this Forum might know what Ford's policy is but the public at large will perceive it as bad news and the galling thing is this article is not really quoting anybody.

[RPO83]

Ford will state their intentions further down the track, the focus is to communicate to the public about the upcoming Falcon. Slow reveal ahead.

[csv8]

RPO83 no fingers walking ..please !!!!!!!

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by bigsta

never thought i would agree with abbot on something but yep the falcon and territory are world leaders really and i see no reason why they should not be exported.

Sorry, but the Territory and the Falcon are certainly not world class cars. They drive well, tow extremely well but seriously the lack of features lets it down. You cant even have front parking sensors for gawds sake!

To be world class, the high end series has to at least match a Focus titanium for features if not better it. The current range of locally built Ford's dont even come close and thats a fact.

[Gadgetman]

Why would Ford Aust even consider builing a LHD version of the Tezza? So we can have one landed in the US for around $50k. I think the seppos would much rather their Escalades or Expeditions for that sort of bucks bunny.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Sorry, but the Territory and the Falcon are certainly not world class cars. They drive well, tow extremely well but seriously the lack of features lets it down. You cant even have front parking sensors for gawds sake!

To be world class, the high end series has to at least match a Focus titanium for features if not better it. The current range of locally built Ford's dont even come close and thats a fact.

Can't be world class if it isn't sold on the world market.

[aussie muscle]

Seems like Ford still don't want to come out publicly with any statement so it's interesting that this gets turned around that it is Ford itself casting doubts

I don't know why they don't. it's not like it's a verbal contract or something. Holden has never gotten in trouble for it's broken promises.

Originally Posted by imugli

Why the hell should the Australian government do anything at all to encourage buyers to purchase australian made vehicles if those vehicles do not suit their needs or desires? If Ford and Holden want Australians to buy Australian made cars, here's a novel idea - build cars that Australian's want to buy! It's not rocket science.

compared to marketing in automotive sector, rocket science is dead easy.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Sorry, but the Territory and the Falcon are certainly not world class cars. They drive well, tow extremely well but seriously the lack of features lets it down. You cant even have front parking sensors for gawds sake!

All these people going on & on & on about a lack of features, should really look at the besting selling car in this country & tell me what that car has that the Falcon does not!! You'd be very very hard to find anything!!

Falcon is currently one of the oldest models in the show room; of course it will be a bit behind compared to he newer ones. Once the update comes along all will be fixed!!

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

All these people going on & on & on about a lack of features, should really look at the besting selling car in this country & tell me what that car has that the Falcon does not!! You'd be very very hard to find anything!!

Quoted for the truth.

Maybe auto up windows.? But then I could list a bunch of stuff that's in a falcon that's not in a Mazda 3. And let's n keep to the Ecoboost. The falcon is faster, has RWD dynamics, more space., try putting baby capsules in a 3 or a corolla? Turbocharging with direct injection. Smartphone connectivity. Yes the 3 is cheaper. But really what I'm trying to say is apples for apples the falcon is a good thing. And if the good folk on here can't see a reason to to buy one......

Anyway I must stop now. I can't be true Ford fan unless I'm vilifying the Falcon at every opportunity.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Elks

Quoted for the truth.

Maybe auto up windows.? But then I could list a bunch of stuff that's in a falcon that's not in a Mazda 3. And let's n keep to the Ecoboost. The falcon is faster, has RWD dynamics, more space., try putting baby capsules in a 3 or a corolla? Turbocharging with direct injection. Smartphone connectivity. Yes the 3 is cheaper. But really what I'm trying to say is apples for apples the falcon is a good thing. And if the good folk on here can't see a reason to to buy one......

Anyway I must stop now. I can't be true Ford fan unless I'm vilifying the Falcon at every opportunity.

It's funny though how the usual suspects come racing out of the woodwork to bag the Falcon, Territory and Ford Australia with such zeal, yet have no interest in any of them and probably wouldnt buy a Falcon or Territory even if they had all of those precious trinkets they lust after so badly.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Well first off, it's Ford policy not to talk about a future Falcon before the next one (2014) is released,
that's because Ford wants the government to cough up for funding towards Euro 5 for post 2016
so Ford announcing a post 2016 Falcon before funding is secured would be a tactical error..

In terms of difficulty, Euro 3 to Euro 4 was arguably a bigger jump then Euro 4 to Euro 5,
so I'd say that the cost of post 2016 emission updates is going to be a relatively small amount
but also contingent on the emissions lab being upgraded to Euro 5 and 6 evaluation standard.

So there's some essential pre-steps and funding to do before Ford can announce anything
and as we all know, nothing is certain.

Predicting which models and equipment a manufacturer wants to run with more than
two years out has to be a real leap of faith / stab in the dark especially if it's wrong.

Hang on....doesnt that sound fundamentally wrong? Why is Ford (or anyone) asking the Gov to give money to reach these targets? Is it not part of the game?

Are there other examples of Govs chipping in to keep an engine alive? If this is whats needed every time a milestone is set then does that not prove its not viable?

If the German gov gives BMW and Merc cash to develop/prolong current drivetrains then Im happy to be shown that; but I would find it hard to believe.

[davistev]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

How did they forget the mighty nation of Malta!!!

We could also export to Gibraltar.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Hang on....doesnt that sound fundamentally wrong? Why is Ford (or anyone) asking the Gov to give money to reach these targets? Is it not part of the game?

Ford has been going to the government for years asking for money to evolve the I-6,
the most recent examples are $11 million tipped in to assist the $21 million to upgrade the Falcon I-6 to meet Euro 4
and assistance to Develop EcoLPI so that LPG Falcons could meet Euro 4 emissions..

I'm pretty sure that if you dug back through records, you'd find the I-6 Falcon has been on the bump for
ADR 37 and Euro 3 emissions upgrades every single time, waiting for government assistance before being upgraded.

I see no difference today and fully expect another announcement in late 2014 after the the
next Falcon launch that the engine will b evolved to Euro 5 using government funding to assist.

Holden has the advantage of using corporate engines that only need minor calibration to meet
our emissions standards, the US Tier 2 emissions levels for engines already exceed Euro 6.

[aussie muscle]

While Ford is definitely a volume producer, that makes it hard to work it here. Maybe they should retool Ford Australia to be their global niche producer, doing specialty vehicles in areas where the low volume is a problem for major plants, but would be suited to FA. 500 vehicles pm may not be much to FNA, but would be a major boost here.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

While Ford is definitely a volume producer, that makes it hard to work it here. Maybe they should retool Ford Australia to be their global niche producer, doing specialty vehicles in areas where the low volume is a problem for major plants, but would be suited to FA. 500 vehicles pm may not be much to FNA, but would be a major boost here.

I would like to see FoA do a Lincoln MKR in 4-door sedan and 2-door coupe, completely different upper body to Falcon
Available with 2.0 Ecoboost, V6 diesel, V6 Ecoboost and S/C 5.0 V8 available in LHD and RHD for China, USA and ROW.
Pretty much an answer to the Lexus LS / GS or Jaguar XK / XF...

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

All these people going on & on & on about a lack of features, should really look at the besting selling car in this country & tell me what that car has that the Falcon does not!! You'd be very very hard to find anything!!

Falcon is currently one of the oldest models in the show room; of course it will be a bit behind compared to he newer ones. Once the update comes along all will be fixed!!

OK. Lets compare top of the range 3 vs top of the range Falcon G6E.

Keyless start proximity sensor. (unless you get used to using one, you wont realise how much easier life is).

Bi-xenon headlamps which as compared to projector headlamps which in fact has gone backwards in terms of nighttime visibility in comparion to FGmk1.

Metallic paint no charge. Can you believe thats an option on a G6E!!!

Rain Sensing Wipers. Nice touch.

Front park assist. If anything I would have thought a bigger car would require this feature more often.

Taillamps LED... Im not overly fussed about this but it does look good i suppose

Premium sound System (Bose).. Now this bit really burns me. I like my music and cant wait till these FMS developed sound units get phased out of Falcons. Ordinary at best.

Anyway the point I make here is, with so many makes and models available for sale in our land today. You really have to be the benchmark in tech amongst other key factors to be a volume seller.

[Gadgetman]

oh and FGmk2 has been out for 16 months and the current Mazda 20 months.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Anyway the point I make here is, with so many makes and models available for sale in our land today. You really have to be the benchmark in tech amongst other key factors to be a volume seller.

And my point is the Mazda 3 is lacking tech every bit the same as Falcon is (when compared to the bench mark). Yet the Mazda 3 is still the best selling car in Australian!!

[csv8]

Difference between Mazda 3 and Falcon is a huge price difference!!!! Value for money is the Hyundai i30.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

OK. Lets compare top of the range 3 vs top of the range Falcon G6E.

Keyless start proximity sensor. (unless you get used to using one, you wont realise how much easier life is).

Bi-xenon headlamps which as compared to projector headlamps which in fact has gone backwards in terms of nighttime visibility in comparion to FGmk1.

Metallic paint no charge. Can you believe thats an option on a G6E!!!

Rain Sensing Wipers. Nice touch.

Front park assist. If anything I would have thought a bigger car would require this feature more often.

Taillamps LED... Im not overly fussed about this but it does look good i suppose

Premium sound System (Bose).. Now this bit really burns me. I like my music and cant wait till these FMS developed sound units get phased out of Falcons. Ordinary at best.

Anyway the point I make here is, with so many makes and models available for sale in our land today. You really have to be the benchmark in tech amongst other key factors to be a volume seller.

Why did you not mention that the G6E has reversing camera, SUNA traffic channel, 19in rims option, 8in touch screen interface, 3 engine options and ZF transmission where the top Mazda 3 does not?

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Why did you not mention that the G6E has reversing camera, SUNA traffic channel, 19in rims option, 8in touch screen interface, 3 engine options and ZF transmission where the top Mazda 3 does not?

19"s. I was discussing standard features.
Are you referring to the touch screen that Ford have had 2 years of teething issues with such as freezes etc??
I'm sure the average punter (non enthusiast is really aware as to who ZF is?)
doesnt give a continental about a gearbox maker much like I dont care about who makes the camera in my iphone 5.
3 engine options dont mean much to most punters who only need 1 to get from a to b.

Realise this, the masses that buy cars arent car perves. They wouldnt know if a 4 litre inline six was up em. They go for gadgets and would go hungry to have a chrome bletliner on each side of their door line. That's who Ford, as a manufacturer must concentrate on if they want to be profitable in australia and would like to see their market share head in the right direction. The sooner they put this local build issue they have behind, the more profitable they will be going forward.

[naddis01]

Most people couldn't care less about minor spec differences. The Mazda 3 sells well because it is a good car at a reasonable price. Why spend another 10-20k on a large car if you don't need that bit extra space?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Most people couldn't care less about minor spec differences. The Mazda 3 sells well because it is a good car at a reasonable price. Why spend another 10-20k on a large car if you don't need that bit extra space?

So why does it sell better than other small cars when it is a generation behind most in the segment.. it cant be features as it is no where near the benchmark

[naddis01]

What features is it lacking that all the others have? It is one of the best cars in the segment in general terms.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

OK. Lets compare top of the range 3 vs top of the range Falcon G6E.

Keyless start proximity sensor. (unless you get used to using one, you wont realise how much easier life is). A good gadget for sure

Bi-xenon headlamps which as compared to projector headlamps which in fact has gone backwards in terms of nighttime visibility in comparion to FGmk1.
Also a good feature

Metallic paint no charge. Can you believe thats an option on a G6E!!!
Say what! Is that a tech issue? I think not.

Rain Sensing Wipers. Nice touch. They don't work as well as you think, and the cost of replacement windscreens triples if they are the rain sensing system 1400 for my car, I can just see people complain about that

Front park assist. If anything I would have thought a bigger car would require this feature more often. Fair call

Taillamps LED... Im not overly fussed about this but it does look good i suppose just a gadget

Premium sound System (Bose).. Now this bit really burns me. I like my music and cant wait till these FMS developed sound units get phased out of Falcons. Ordinary at best. Yes true.

Anyway the point I make here is, with so many makes and models available for sale in our land today. You really have to be the benchmark in tech amongst other key factors to be a volume seller.

But I know you're also critical of the cost of a falcon so how do you make this work.

I also think that this thread and many others, skips over that many strengths of the falcon (and its variants).

As for tech and reliability. Well yes for has had some screen issues, I believe now resolved. I deal with tech stuff all day and most of my clients now yearn for low tech reliability. As do I.

Perhaps we should swap jobs. Lol

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

So why does it sell better than other small cars when it is a generation behind most in the segment.. it cant be features as it is no where near the benchmark

Probably because Mazda does business so much better then Ford. My parents have 2 Mazda's now and each time the service has been outstanding, not only from the dealer but Mazda head office. They bought a CX5 about a month ago and last week received more information on the car about servicing, warranty, road side assist etc. The brochure they received had an image of the CX5 they bought with their rego number on it. Nothing huge but just that little bit of personalization that makes you feel special. Also was a thank you letter from them.

On the other hand 2 years ago I bought the Mrs a Titanium Territory and to this date I have only received 1 piece of communication about that car from Ford... A recall on the sound system.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

So why does it sell better than other small cars when it is a generation behind most in the segment.. it cant be features as it is no where near the benchmark

Maybe it's image amongst the people that are in the market for a small car,
It's like the Toyota Hilux, I am not going to say it is a useless car as other's have said as I quite like the Hilux and I would consider one, but that's my opinion and my money but Toyota has built a reputation amongst the utility brigade for yr's, it has established it's leadership and only now are the other's trying to get a piece of the pie, but once again it's a little to late.

This same thing could be said for the Mazda 3, just as the Ford laser was known for it's rep back in it's day.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Probably because Mazda does business so much better then Ford. My parents have 2 Mazda's now and each time the service has been outstanding, not only from the dealer but Mazda head office. They bought a CX5 about a month ago and last week received more information on the car about servicing, warranty, road side assist etc. The brochure they received had an image of the CX5 they bought with their rego number on it. Nothing huge but just that little bit of personalization that makes you feel special. Also was a thank you letter from them.

On the other hand 2 years ago I bought the Mrs a Titanium Territory and to this date I have only received 1 piece of communication about that car from Ford... A recall on the sound system.

This is the whole point I'm trying to make. People keep going on & on & on about the lack of tech in a Falcon & if Ford put this Tech in the Falcon it would start selling well. My very good example is the equally poor tech-ed up Mazda 3 does well even without this tech.. Falcons problems are far greater than put some tech in & it will start to sell.


Anyway, I think we are getting off topic here.

Also, all Mazda dealers aren’t great. One of my friends at work bought a Mazda 3, got it delivered at work & I went with her to get the keys. The Mazda dealer was TOTALY crap. Basically gave her the keys, showed her the warranty book & left. Did not show her anything about the car.

On the other hand I bought a FG just over 3 years ago, was shown how to use every feature inside & out & had my phone linked up. I've also received about 3-4 calls over the last 3 years from Ford to make sure I was happy with the car!!


But seriously we are way of topic!!

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

So why does it sell better than other small cars when it is a generation behind most in the segment.. it cant be features as it is no where near the benchmark

Well I think you would find if the Mazda 3 was imported by Ford Australia and sold and serviced by Ford dealers, it wouldn't be anywhere near as popular. Looking past the car, there are other things that help decide what is and isn't a successful model.

The car itself is an important contributor, but certainly not the only factor.