Holden secures $200m subsidy

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In fairness Ford have said that the 2014 Falcon update would go ahead to take Falcon up to 2016..
That Holden needed to show its hand this far out in front is a major advantage to Ford who can now
decide two important points:
1) Which product - FWD/AWD or another RWD?
2) Build it ehre or import?

If ford decided to go with a common RWD architecture for Falcon and Mustang. And keep building a post 2016 Falcon. I'd be laughing my bag out from now till the day I die.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think its more how Holden deals with the media compared to Ford. Ford have no idea.

The media would have a field day with Holden if their senior GM execs said the same cryptic, depressing stuff senior Ford execs say to the media.

Nah... Holden, GM... they can do no wrong in their eyes.

[Buntz]

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...322-1vl34.html

An Australian Icon for more than a century? It was a saddlery. Not hugely important. Then it started making body panels... for umm... oh yeah... for Ford. Then GM bought it after the war.

Ford has been a bigger, longer contributor to this nations manufacturing industry, and employment sector.

[bmorris]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not sour grapes but there's history:
Ford were only offered $30 million to bring Focus here, Holden got $149 million.

Holden refuse to discuss post 2016 big car yet when Ford does the same thing Falcon is dead..

All we ask for is parity, if Ford is offered $275 million combined to stay, then I think they will
and having Holden, Toyota and Ford commit for the next ten years is more than most were seeking

I agree with what your saying there 100% jpd, my point is more that people need to look at the big picture. If Holden get this money then there is more of a chance Ford will be able to get money in the future. My arguement is not that it's fair but some money is better then nothing. Also currently Holden builds more cars per year in Australia then Ford does so politically it makes sense to supply them with more funding (not saying I agree with it, just telling it how it is).

Investment in the industry is good for all players in the long run. Had the government turned around and said no, Holden would have most likely pulled out, making it almost impossible for Ford to continue manufacturing locally in Australia.

We need to look at the silver lining.

[MethodX]

Good, anything that keeps them here is good news.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by Cúl-Báire

Take construction for instance, the overheads certainly aren’t as great as manufacturing however the “ripple effect” to support industries, and contractors is of similar proportion. Yet I don’t see the Labour government giving handouts to builders that are going under such as Kell & Rigby, or even Reed Construction (whom a reliable source tells me will be forced to wind up in April if things don’t change dramatically).......

Hhhhhmmmmm First Home Buyers Grant, Halls/Libraries for Schools, Major infrastructure builds etc etc etc.
Have a look what the builders are charging as soon as they see it's for the Government ! (they hardly miss out)

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...322-1vl34.html

An Australian Icon for more than a century? It was a saddlery. Not hugely important. Then it started making body panels... for umm... oh yeah... for Ford. Then GM bought it after the war.

Ford has been a bigger, longer contributor to this nations manufacturing industry, and employment sector.

This really gets my goat too, the way they talk up Holden as being the first aussie car, well no its not, Ford has been making cars here since 1925, Holden didn't make their first car until 1948, and it was a rehashed Chev they didn't want to use. Hardly Australian from the ground up like they make out.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Gov dept should be buying these cars made here !!

Ambulance Victoria buys the new TDCI Territories here in Mexico.

[mik]

there`s a reason the car makers need a hand out to remain viable in this country, it`s so bloody expensive to manufacture anything here, i saw an article some where comparing electricity around the world, can you guess which country was almost at the top of this for the most expensive? you guessed it,
if i recall correctly, it was`nt a few dollars........ it was like double or in some cases triple the cost of other country`s and we have`nt even mentioned taxes yet.
when the Carbon Tax comes in electricity is predicted to go up another 30% more(among other things)
it`s funny that people think that only our local car companies are struggling, the whole manufacturing sector is in strife, especially those that are labor intensive, and imo this is a direct result of our leaders policy`s over the years.

[Dr Smith]

I would suggest that for Ford to get anything like the same money it would have to say it was going to export something (car or engines for example) otherwise I couldn't see anywhere near the same assistance being given. An while saying you're going to invest $1Billion dollars might sound great it's actually $100 million a year over the 10 years discussed and hardly a big spend considering Holden's turnover.

[ebxr8240]

What these big companies have to keep in mind is PROFFIT..NOT just turnover..
G.M went broke and had great turnover...

Our elect meters are used as cash registers by state gov for years...
Plus they are now subsidizing the solar program .

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

And also the fact of no job equals more people on doll cues , not financeing cars , buying homes, money on holidays .etc etc any job lost in this country is bad news , and the cost of subsidies to holden / ford / Toyota are worth every penny ..
Makes me wonder what dreamworld some people live in ?
I would like to see someone reverse the math and work out the true loss in these areas , it would be staggering I imagine.

You need to look past Holden itself before making these statements.

You have the suppliers to Holden.

You have the businesses round the manufacturing plant that rely on that company to keep their doors open.

I worked round the area and when Holden reduced the shifts, business took a sharp nosedive, because Holden's emploees had no idwea what their future held, therefore shut their wallets up tighter than a fishes you know what.

These places PAY tax, keep people employed, therefore OFF the dole.

So I'd be thinking before opening thy mouth.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Gov dept should be buying these cars made here !!

They do, you obviously don't take much notice driving round.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Fourd1

Stick a commodore badge on some sh** box korean car and im sure the sheep will flock.

They'll flock if the build quality is good. reading round here, I wouldn't buy a Ford, for fear of something breaking, or falling off.

[Cúl-Báire]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Hhhhhmmmmm First Home Buyers Grant, Halls/Libraries for Schools, Major infrastructure builds etc etc etc.
Have a look what the builders are charging as soon as they see it's for the Government ! (they hardly miss out)

The first home owners grant was introduced to offset the effects of the GST, and combat the deminishing home ownership rate; did it stimulate the "residential" building industry well yes to an extent.

Halls/Libraries was a ******* shamozzle fullstop!..

You think the government spend money on infrastructure?..

Do builders charge more for government project, well yes - becuase the staffing and contractual requirements are uniquely different to that of private sector projects.

The above stimulated the not just one builder, but the entire industry, and even the economy during a period where for every three builders making money (or breaking even), there was one going broke... It's not to disimilar to the govenment giving a handout to GM Holden, but it certainly wasn't giving one entity a bail out!

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

**** I hate the media... I ******* detest it. All this Ford hate for the last two years is contributing to hurting sales on Falcon. And they couldn't care less. And Holden is some kind of aussie icon that can do no wrong. Bang Commodore is confirmed dead. "Aww that's cool". Falcon may be replaced.. dunno yet. "Ford's dying. Falcon sucks... told ya, you heard it from us. And we're gonna keep telling ya".

2 years? Its been 20 years, but i do agree with the rest of your post though. Thats the problem with being the underdog that the falcon is unfortunately. Some of the media are probably on the GM payroll

Originally Posted by svo_supporter

They'll flock if the build quality is good. reading round here, I wouldn't buy a Ford, for fear of something breaking, or falling off.

Well are you doing here if you dont like Ford then?

[Buntz]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2579C9001A228E

Nice popularity campaign Jules. How about laying down some real dosh for the ENTIRE auto manufacturing sector. That means equal share to Holden, Toyota, and Ford.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Well are you doing here if you dont like Ford then?

I don't like any cars, because they leave a hole in my wallet.

Seriously, if you were to read the whinging and whining on here about the Ford product, it'd scare you away from the product. Everything from something falling off, to the dealers wanting to ram you where your mothers never kissed you.

So it's was a tongue in cheek comment that you obviously didn't understand, so hopefully my explanation might help you

[1TUFFUTE]

it should have nothing to do with how many sales a previous model sold...a new model costs the same to build no matter if its ford or holden...THEY SHOULD GET THE SAME FUNDING

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This really gets my goat too, the way they talk up Holden as being the first aussie car, well no its not, Ford has been making cars here since 1925, Holden didn't make their first car until 1948, and it was a rehashed Chev they didn't want to use. Hardly Australian from the ground up like they make out.

ford and holden were doing the same thing CKD's..

when was the first ford "pressed" at gelong?

[stang65]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

I don't like any cars, because they leave a hole in my wallet.

Seriously, if you were to read the whinging and whining on here about the Ford product, it'd scare you away from the product. Everything from something falling off, to the dealers wanting to ram you where your mothers never kissed you.

So it's was a tongue in cheek comment that you obviously didn't understand, so hopefully my explanation might help you

Yeah and most of it is from you.

[borough]

Reading though the article I note the following:

- The Commodore is effectively dead and production will cease post 2016
- Since the Commodore is dead I assume this means the Caprice is dead also
- The Cruze will continue production post 2016
- The Commodore replacement will be a US GM car, probably either an SUV or the Mallibu

Now that GM and Toyota have played their cards it now comes down to Ford. Could we see a repeat of when the Commodore replaced the Kingswood? With Holden basically have said the Commodore replacement will be smaller, so this leaves a gap in the market for a large car post 2016. In 2011 40,617 Commodores and 18,741 Falcons where sold for a total around 60,000. Now all we need is for Ford to announce the Falcon production post 2016 will continue based upon the new Mustang platform.

Wait, I'm being too positive. The Falcon is dead, post 2016 Ford will import the FWD Taurus.

[jpd80]

But hang on a moment, the reason Ford and Holden are in the stew is because big car sales are falling,
you could hardly expect them to run off and use an international vehicle, build it here just to get low sales.

I think Holden and Ford need a slightly different tack here, both parents have FWD mid sized car but chances are
that both Holden and Ford are looking at a neat mid sized RWD that covers our market much better than Falcadore does.
I hope that is the case and that everyone can come out a winner with better priced vehicles with exceptional fuel economy..

[borough]

Originally Posted by jpd80

But hang on a moment, the reason Ford and Holden are in the stew is because big car sales are falling,
you could hardly expect them to run off and use an international vehicle, build it here just to get low sales.

I think Holden and Ford need a slightly different tack here, both parents have FWD mid sized car but chances are
that both Holden and Ford are looking at a neat mid sized RWD that covers our market much better than Falcadore does.
I hope that is the case and that everyone can come out a winner with better priced vehicles with exceptional fuel economy..

Just a left field idea. Since Holden is getting out of the large car business just like they did in 1978, that leaves the market open for the Falcon. The next Falcon could be based upon the Mustang with an engine lineup of the I-6, EB-4, I-6 EcoLPi and a V8.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by borough

Just a left field idea. Since Holden is getting out of the large car business just like they did in 1978, that leaves the market open for the Falcon. The next Falcon could be based upon the Mustang with an engine lineup of the I-6, EB-4, I-6 EcoLPi and a V8.

Good question, will one change to a large mid sizer and leave big cars to the other...or will they both change...

I'm sorry borough but I think the I-6 is definitely dead come 2016, my hope is local manufacture and
broady reconfigured to build I-4 Ecoboost for the region and V6 engines for larger vehicles.

[dylancox]

We need a ballot on our tax forms. 'Which local car manufacturer do you wish your tax funds to support: Ford, Holden or Toyota'. I don't wish to pay for a car/manufacturer I would never buy from in the first place?

[Road_Warrior]

The I6 is definitely dead come 2016. However the issue that remains is what car will replace the Falcon.

Ford keep on delaying a decision about the issue, which is coincidentally absorbing the time delay in bringing the 4cyl Ecoboost to market. Ford clearly want the I4T experiment in a RWD application to be given time to work.

Join the dots people, it's not hard to work out.

[dimka100]

bah bah bah ... I don;t understand what do people complain about here ???

Holden got 275Mil from the government because they are investing over 1Billion dollars !!!

Ford got some money from the government too, sure it was less ... but do you see Ford committing 1Billion dollars as well ??? or even 500mil ?

Its as simple as day and night. The government will contribute more funds to the manufacturers that are willing to invest a great portion of funds themselves ... with Ford not wanting to invest any serious amount of money into the Falcon R&D and simply to choosing to release minor upgrades that pale in comparison to the investment that Holden has committed here ... do not be surprised why the government is behaving the way it is, and do not be surprised why the media is calling it already dead.

[69Mach1]

The money is there for the taking, companies have to show their investment plan for the future and then negotiate a deal with the govt. GM invests and the Govt co-invests. GM have obviously shown a good plan for future investment...so they get the money. If Ford did the same they would get the money as well.

If I had $1B to invest in Australia, I would certainly be lobbying the govt to support me. I'm going to employ, buy equipment, materials, support suppliers, etc, etc. It is easy to make a good argument for how this type of investment is good for the country. Its then all about how much co-investment you can negotiate.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2579C9001A228E

Nice popularity campaign Jules. How about laying down some real dosh for the ENTIRE auto manufacturing sector. That means equal share to Holden, Toyota, and Ford.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2579AA000CD0D0

Not all rosy for the beloved V6 neither?