Ford CEO - Americans need to “get back in love” with small cars

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by ivorya

The same thing is happening in all areas of business, the accountants run the show.

Yes, they need to make money but when engineers are fighting for a $1 bolt and the accountants have only allowed 50c............
The heads of companies, these days, are puppets for accountants!!

very true, how come Ford have been running like that for the last 30yrs in that case
Every single Export market they have screwed up, not recently for decades.
As long as Nth Merica is OK, with what, damn pick ups.
Oh hang on we can't stop Mustang might I add, the only USA OE performance marquee never to have gone out of production unlike the stops and starts of their local competitors not that thats any guernsey might I add.
Most USA companies are backward and insular thinkers, no wonder someone like Musk has been able to make them look like rabbits in front of headlights re EV's, wasn't hard.
Its been the bean counter company forever and its day, sure smart business but at what costs overall.
You reap what you sew.
jdp China been a basket case long before they looked to re invest heavily the last 10+yrs.
GM/VW owned the major % of the market long long before and before the CCP/Chinese cars started Exporting.
Now that the CCP have built up their brand/model Export product AND incentivised their consumers to their own brands not surprised Ford share is not much, funnily it wasn't much since I started frequenting there the last 25yrs.

They bean counter company has screwed up big time, driven customers away and help other brands grow.
Real sad, typical yanks with their heads in the sand.

[swamp]

hi
Ford need to up the quality of design B4 before they conduct any more public testing of their products .
Apprentice designers diff plugs to low .
Dual clutch gear boxes
Paint so thin u can see thru it
Transmissions developed with all the bolt on parts being chinese / under designed = resulting in predictable failures
Many parts are very simple and have been designed properly before . Not talking minor repairs but major very costly failures
Luv the product but its getting harder to do .

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by FTE217

very true, how come Ford have been running like that for the last 30yrs in that case
Every single Export market they have screwed up, not recently for decades.
As long as Nth Merica is OK, with what, damn pick ups.
Oh hang on we can't stop Mustang might I add, the only USA OE performance marquee never to have gone out of production unlike the stops and starts of their local competitors not that thats any guernsey might I add.
Most USA companies are backward and insular thinkers, no wonder someone like Musk has been able to make them look like rabbits in front of headlights re EV's, wasn't hard.
Its been the bean counter company forever and its day, sure smart business but at what costs overall.
You reap what you sew.
jdp China been a basket case long before they looked to re invest heavily the last 10+yrs.
GM/VW owned the major % of the market long long before and before the CCP/Chinese cars started Exporting.
Now that the CCP have built up their brand/model Export product AND incentivised their consumers to their own brands not surprised Ford share is not much, funnily it wasn't much since I started frequenting there the last 25yrs.

They bean counter company has screwed up big time, driven customers away and help other brands grow.
Real sad, typical yanks with their heads in the sand.

The Ford Vs Ferrari movie even stated what i did, I wonder if they had insider knowledge!

Fortunately for us, unfortunately for others, they always seem to hire great talkers as their puppets.

Remember the US way, 'Wolf of Wall Street' 'Elon Musk', awesome talkers/communicators. They could sell sand to the Arabs, on the car front, obtaining large amounts of cash under the name of 'Investment'

Lose the cash, get out and start talking again. S_itty cycle of bad structure and decision making that continues today.

[jpd80]

For all of Ford’s commercial failings, the C2 platform shows how many different types
of vehicles can be built under the one product envelope and in the same plant.
In theory, a single flexible plant could build any of the following in whatever product mix required
- Focus Hatchback
- Maverick
- Bronco Sport
- Larger SUV like Chinese Edge
- Latest Mondeo


Ford’s brain is definitely broken because if it was firing properly, it would be maximising
how it uses all of its C2 products to leverage efficiency and deliver a whole range of vehicles
to customers in various regions. The fact that Farley has never fixed that problem is an glaring
example of why Ford continually fails with supplying a wider range of affordable, desirable products.

[mondeomatureguy]

Hi Guys,
iam not really sure how the big wigs at Ford think. After Allan Moffat won in 1977 he was sitting in Fords head office and said "we need more money for 1978 because when Holden get beaten like they did 1977 they spend big and the new Torana A9X will kill us unless we get more money.

After a matter of weeks after the big win in 1977 Ford slashed funding to Allan Moffat. His reduced budget meant in 1978 he had reliability problems and of course never finished the race at Bathurst.

Like i said before not every body wants a SUV or a Ford Mustang. Ford if your reading this Bring back the Falcon and Mondeo.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by mondeomatureguy

Hi Guys,
iam not really sure how the big wigs at Ford think. After Allan Moffat won in 1977 he was sitting in Fords head office and said "we need more money for 1978 because when Holden get beaten like they did 1977 they spend big and the new Torana A9X will kill us unless we get more money.

After a matter of weeks after the big win in 1977 Ford slashed funding to Allan Moffat. His reduced budget meant in 1978 he had reliability problems and of course never finished the race at Bathurst.

Like i said before not every body wants a SUV or a Ford Mustang. Ford if your reading this Bring back the Falcon and Mondeo.

Yep they told him we’re out actually no more funding period after that brilliant season and Bathurst 1/2.
Pathetic.
You know what’s funny and the slap in the face to them to this day now ?!
Mustang, they are finally the only one dipping in to the stoopid Supercars who treat them with disdain and they still hang in there with egg on their faces, probably just deserved how Ford USA have treated Australia consumers not just motor sport.
My last new Ford was a FGX.


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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

it's not just what Ford in the US are doing themselves, but they give corporate direction to the rest of the development sites. I'm sure Ford of Europe would have kept the Mondeo going as it still sold well, but Ford US wouldn't approve.

We could have kept Falcon going, but it would have needed significant investment to keep the 4.0 running at Euro 5, or investment to change the powertrain. Neither of which Ford US would approve.

Territory was still selling well, and could have lasted a good few more years with investment, but again, Ford US wouldn't approve.

Frankly, I think we only lasted as long as we did here as we had an absolute star of an advocate in Trevor Worthington. Interestingly, last year's big job cuts only happened after he retired...... coincidence?

Couldn't you have just retired the 4L and continued with the 2L Ecoboost that could meet Euro V?

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Couldn't you have just retired the 4L and continued with the 2L Ecoboost that could meet Euro V?

Volumes Franco volumes.
It was all on the nose other side of the pacific more so due to their lack of foresight long before shutting down.


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[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Couldn't you have just retired the 4L and continued with the 2L Ecoboost that could meet Euro V?

The emission limits for Euro V and VI are similar to IV, the big difference is guaranteeing them to 160,000 km
which required maintenance of emission equipment and maybe different oils (?) for different cat converters

A lot of the negativity about the I-6 was supposition that was dispelled when modelled on emission program
available via T6. Another possible option was adoption of the 2.3 EB or compact 2.7/3.0 EB V6s.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The emission limits for Euro V and VI are similar to IV, the big difference is guaranteeing them to 160,000 km
which required maintenance of emission equipment and maybe different oils (?) for different cat converters

A lot of the negativity about the I-6 was supposition that was dispelled when modelled on emission program
available via T6. Another possible option was adoption of the 2.3 EB or compact 2.7/3.0 EB V6s.

They already had the 2L Ecoboost in the Falcon since FGII, so surely it would have been a low cost option to discontinue the 4L and continue with the 2L Ecoboost which would be able to meet Euro V requirements without extensive investment.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Volumes Franco volumes.
It was all on the nose other side of the pacific more so due to their lack of foresight long before shutting down.


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80 or less a day (total) makes it a no brainer, there was no way investment was coming for E8 with those volumes period.

[FTE217]

Why I said volumes - was a no brainer.
I understand that completely - the under lying issues from way back was smarter business models regards range not just the local produced product.
Ford euro models imported here too expensive.
Not getting a suv ala territory into market much earlier than when released playing catch up let alone how long it took for the diesel.
If I recall right Politis flew over thumping his fist in the boardroom to get that approved.
It’s just been badly run business once the imports started making inroads.
They rested on the laurels of the old days when Falcon Holden ruled supreme add in the politics and ROI losing heaps of market share it was a given.
Again due to lack of foresight many many moons ago imo.


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[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Why I said volumes - was a no brainer.
I understand that completely - the under lying issues from way back was smarter business models regards range not just the local produced product.
Ford euro models imported here too expensive.
Not getting a suv ala territory into market much earlier than when released playing catch up let alone how long it took for the diesel.
If I recall right Politis flew over thumping his fist in the boardroom to get that approved.
It’s just been badly run business once the imports started making inroads.
They rested on the laurels of the old days when Falcon Holden ruled supreme add in the politics and ROI losing heaps of market share it was a given.
Again due to lack of foresight many many moons ago imo.


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Ford Territory was released before most other SUV’s in this market, and early on it was being produced at up to 170 per day 6 days a week.

Free trade agreements, cheap imports, & no exports, Go figure, there is no surprise that the local industry collapsed.

Eg: I know of at least one local supplier who couldn’t source raw materials at the landed price of Chinese automotive parts for local use.

There is your answer: global competition as well as low volumes in a first world country, not a poorly locally run local business ( that had to do things on a shoe string budget).

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They already had the 2L Ecoboost in the Falcon since FGII, so surely it would have been a low cost option to discontinue the 4L and continue with the 2L Ecoboost which would be able to meet Euro V requirements without extensive investment.

Of course it could but you’re missing the point, engine approval to Euro 5 and 6 was not the major hurdle,
it was Ford’s way of saying no more funding for local production beyond that deadline.

Sure, Ford could do this or that to extend Falcon and Territory but the sales were on life support
all through FG, FGII and FGX, every reprieve was a minor victory but you know what, the moment
Holden knew that Ford was definitely pulling the pin, GM waited for the first excuse to leave as well.

Holden arguably did way more investment in Commodore, stationwagon, Caprice, Cruze
even chased exports like the government wanted but seriously, it all came to nothing in
terms of protecting local manufacturing, they pulled out in spite of all that investment.

The other tell was that Toyota also pulled out of Australia and found lower cost production offshore.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Ford Territory was released before most other SUV’s in this market, and early on it was being produced at up to 170 per day 6 days a week.

Free trade agreements, cheap imports, & no exports, Go figure, there is no surprise that the local industry collapsed.

Eg: I know of at least one local supplier who couldn’t source raw materials at the landed price of Chinese automotive parts for local use.

There is your answer: global competition as well as low volumes in a first world country, not a poorly locally run local business ( that had to do things on a shoe string budget).

Territory release was perfect almost to the month when SUVs overtook sedans in sales in the Australian market. With the intuitive product design (the style of the car without having to have live axle 4x4) they absolutely nailed it for concept and timing. It soon raced to the top of the sales, to prove it. Later development, however...

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Of course it could but you’re missing the point, engine approval to Euro 5 and 6 was not the major hurdle,
it was Ford’s way of saying no more funding for local production beyond that deadline.

Sure, Ford could do this or that to extend Falcon and Territory but the sales were on life support
all through FG, FGII and FGX, every reprieve was a minor victory but you know what, the moment
Holden knew that Ford was definitely pulling the pin, GM waited for the first excuse to leave as well.

Holden arguably did way more investment in Commodore, stationwagon, Caprice, Cruze
even chased exports like the government wanted but seriously, it all came to nothing.

The other tell was that Toyota also pulled out of Australia and found lower cost production offshore.

The word is FG was VERY borderline, but Government funding eventually got it across the line.

It could have gone pear shaped 8 years earlier for the local Industry.

A small market, and as GM and Ford have said, local volumes needed to support investment before exports, (exports are volatile volume wise), that local volume really required a minimum of 120,000 units out of each assembly plant.

Everyone here can do the math.

Remember a 4 billion dollar vehicle program (yes that is what it takes for a ground up new vehicle), needs to be amortised across the sales volume for that program.

So each vehicle built needs to carry the cost of development and tooling to make the program justifiable. If that vehicle then becomes too expensive (theoretically) to compete in the market it can’t go ahead.

That is what happened to Falcon and Territory unfortunately.

[jpd80]

Everything was critical, Ford worked on project 123 V6 engines for a while
but once it showed Euro IV I-6 was $20 million,it diverted some of the failed
Focus manufacturing fund ($30 million) to that and done deal.

Asian markets refused to buy an Australian manufactured Focus so the export
plan collapsed, the same way Territory exports did, Asia only wants to sell to
us and have plants and jobs in their countries, they get the value adding not us.

Polites said government funding was critical to FG and without it, Ford would have
Just upgraded B Series and probably exited by 2010.

[Syndrome]

Don't tell us what we should buy. Build what we want to buy.

FORD - can't get anything right!

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Don't tell us what we should buy. Build what we want to buy.

FORD - can't get anything right!

Yeah MAGA.

Ford, Holden, Toyota can’t get it right in Australia.

You should go into business and do it yourself.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Everything was critical, Ford worked on project 123 V6 engines for a while
but once it showed Euro IV I-6 was $20 million,it diverted some of the failed
Focus manufacturing fund ($30 million) to that and done deal.

Asian markets refused to buy an Australian manufactured Focus so the export
plan collapsed, the same way Territory exports did, Asia only wants to sell to
us and have plants and jobs in their countries, they get the value adding not us.

Polites said government funding was critical to FG and without it, Ford would have
Just upgraded B Series and probably exited by 2010.

And we had free trade agreements with those Asian Countries.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Yeah MAGA.

What an odd thing to post.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Don't tell us what we should buy. Build what we want to buy.

FORD - can't get anything right!

What drives me nuts is how can Ford get Ranger & Everest so right (8,500 last month)
and yet be unable to supply anything else in decent numbers…

The vehicles that would probably do well here are behind a LHD only wall
- Maverick Ute
- Bronco Sport
- Chinese Territory Sport (2-row soft reader)
- Chinese Equator (3-row soft reader)

Rumours persist that Territory will be sold in South Africa as RHD but I can’t get confirmation…
but if that is true then Equator RHD is a near cousin and wouldn’t be a big added step…

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Ford Territory was released before most other SUV’s in this market, and early on it was being produced at up to 170 per day 6 days a week.

Free trade agreements, cheap imports, & no exports, Go figure, there is no surprise that the local industry collapsed.

Eg: I know of at least one local supplier who couldn’t source raw materials at the landed price of Chinese automotive parts for local use.

There is your answer: global competition as well as low volumes in a first world country, not a poorly locally run local business ( that had to do things on a shoe string budget).

Yes good info Ford1, my main point is just as you mentioned we running on a shoe string for so so many years - ford USA not wanting to put in more and understand why, in a losing market but my sadness is why didn’t they both on better and affordable offerings long before the path of no return.
Granted a lot went against local manufacturing as has been mentioned.


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[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Yes good info Ford1, my main point is just as you mentioned we running on a shoe string for so so many years - ford USA not wanting to put in more and understand why, in a losing market but my sadness is why didn’t they both on better and affordable offerings long before the path of no return.
Granted a lot went against local manufacturing as has been mentioned.


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Like a lot of Ford’s accountant driven strategies, it was cheaper to do nothing for Australia,
simply group cars and SUVs with what was being produced in RHD for UK and then not supply.
So glad Australia got the T6 contract, brought in a lot of local engineering work and plenty of
say in getting vehicle designs right for our market. So honestly, very little choice
except to double down on Ranger and then Everest, sales of those two are massive.

I just hope that when (not if) Ford gives up on making cars in China, our region benefits
by reusing a few of those vehicles in a Thailand production plant, Territory Sport and Equator
are two vehicles that would make a big difference in our market, especially with hybrid versions.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Everything was critical, Ford worked on project 123 V6 engines for a while
but once it showed Euro IV I-6 was $20 million,it diverted some of the failed
Focus manufacturing fund ($30 million) to that and done deal.

Asian markets refused to buy an Australian manufactured Focus so the export
plan collapsed, the same way Territory exports did, Asia only wants to sell to
us and have plants and jobs in their countries, they get the value adding not us.

Polites said government funding was critical to FG and without it, Ford would have
Just upgraded B Series and probably exited by 2010.

Thats why you don't sign one sided free trade agreements with these clowns, I'm pretty sure Ford Australia warned the Howard government about signing the FTA with Thailand.

Why would you build at Ford Australia who can only produce 60,000 cars annually at maximum capacity when you have Thailand in your back yard who can do 400,000+ and for bowl of rice a month wages?

Then the federal government incentivised it with a free trade agreement.

Same thing happened to our tyre manufacturing industry, if you're interested in a read check out what south pacific tyres had to say about the whole drama.

Originally Posted by jpd80

What drives me nuts is how can Ford get Ranger & Everest so right (8,500 last month)
and yet be unable to supply anything else in decent numbers…

The vehicles that would probably do well here are behind a LHD only wall
- Maverick Ute
- Bronco Sport
- Chinese Territory Sport (2-row soft reader)
- Chinese Equator (3-row soft reader)

Rumours persist that Territory will be sold in South Africa as RHD but I can’t get confirmation…
but if that is true then Equator RHD is a near cousin and wouldn’t be a big added step…

Its that way by design, Ford Australia is content with having two big sellers they dominate the market with, its plain to see their thinking behind deliberately letting everything else fall by the wayside.

If Ranger and Everest supply was threatened like the Euro models are, do you think Ford Australia would sit on its hands and say 'oh well'?

Or would they try everything within their powers to rectify the situation?

[Dr Smith]

Name me one politician with any reasonable level of power in Australia that has one ounce of manufacturing skill, knowledge or experience....and the understanding that the skills training provided in a manufacturing industry has a web of cross-linked people-skill that can feed into other areas...
When I was at Monash Uni, the manufacturing industry held interviews and subsequently offered jobs to students before they even received their final results....

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Thats why you don't sign one sided free trade agreements with these clowns, I'm pretty sure Ford Australia warned the Howard government about signing the FTA with Thailand.

Why would you build at Ford Australia who can only produce 60,000 cars annually at maximum capacity when you have Thailand in your back yard who can do 400,000+ and for bowl of rice a month wages?

Then the federal government incentivised it with a free trade agreement.

Same thing happened to our tyre manufacturing industry, if you're interested in a read check out what south pacific tyres had to say about the whole drama.



Its that way by design, Ford Australia is content with having two big sellers they dominate the market with, its plain to see their thinking behind deliberately letting everything else fall by the wayside.

If Ranger and Everest supply was threatened like the Euro models are, do you think Ford Australia would sit on its hands and say 'oh well'?

Or would they try everything within their powers to rectify the situation?

I once had an interesting debate with someone on the subject if Ford Global was run out of Australia instead of the US would the treatment of all divisions across the globe be more "fairly run" or would a hypothetical Aussie based HQ favour Australia in the same way Ford US puts it's N/A divsion above anyone else...yes the F-series and it's market makes the US side dominate the rest, but would a truly globally focused business have it's "eggs" better spread around the world and thus ride the highs and lows more successfully and be better aligned with it's world market and customers needs?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Name me one politician with any reasonable level of power in Australia that has one ounce of manufacturing skill, knowledge or experience....and the understanding that the skills training provided in a manufacturing industry has a web of cross-linked people-skill that can feed into other areas...
When I was at Monash Uni, the manufacturing industry held interviews and subsequently offered jobs to students before they even received their final results....

They don't need to have that experience, they just need to listen to the people who operate in that space and listen to their concerns.

Which they invited industry to contribute to, provide feedback, then subsequently ignored it all and made their own decisions.



Thats South Pacific Tyres talking to the federal government in 2002.

Then again in 2005 over a proposed Chinese-Australia FTA (see what is now CHAFTA)



A review of the Thailand - Australia FTA by a university:

5. Concluding remarks

TAFTA has contributed to a notable expansion of trade between Thailand and Australia.

However, the expansion has occurred predominantly on the import side; there is no discernable deviation from the pre-TAFTA trends and patterns on the export side.

The expansion of imports are predominantly accounted for by motor vehicles, with only few other products showing faster growth.

So congratulations, we facilitated the expansion of Japanese and American auto manufacturers into Thailand to service the Australian market, in exchange for losing our own manufacturing industries.

You don't need to be an expert in something, you just need to recognise, take feedback from and make your decisions on the advice of those who are - being a politician, is the same as being a good manager, its all about relationship management.

They opened up to consultation from the industry, and then ignored it.

If anyone actually wants to debate this from an informed position, plenty of information out there from 20+ years ago that appears on the first page of Google, all from manufacturers who are now long gone.

[mondeomatureguy]

Hi Guys,
As a young kid ive always loved cars. when i was 5 years old going out for a drive with my old man i could tell him the makes and model of the cars on the road.

It makes me sad to see how our car industry has died in this Country. In the early days a CEO of Ford Australia called Bill Bourke changed things. He loved the v8s after driving a XR police pursuit car he decided to produce it as a GT.

They made a big thing about when the Ford Cobra came out but there was about 400 2 door body shells left over. It was the brainchild of Edsel Ford to use the those left over shells. Mind you they weren't any faster then your normal 5.8litre v8 ford but looked great.

We still live in the best place in the world Australia but Ford have let some great cars slip between there fingers. Ford LTD, Ford Fairlane, Ford Fairmont, Ford XR6 and XR8, Ford Falcon and Ford Station wagon, Ford Mondeo once the best selling car in the UK.

There's some that i may have for gotten so sorry. Ford confirmed 600 jobs were lost when Broadmeadows and Geelong closed all manufacturing workers.

It makes me sick that the big Companys in the states have the say and the silly Australian Goverment goes with it, instead of standing up to them and saying no.

Chrysler in the Sates was in financial strife and sold the Chrysler plant to Mitsubishi between 1979 n 1980. They probably said " they dont need Chrysler plant in Australia lets just close it because we dont know how to mange our money'.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They don't need to have that experience, they just need to listen to the people who operate in that space and listen to their concerns.

Which they invited industry to contribute to, provide feedback, then subsequently ignored it all and made their own decisions.

image

Thats South Pacific Tyres talking to the federal government in 2002.

Then again in 2005 over a proposed Chinese-Australia FTA (see what is now CHAFTA)

image

A review of the Thailand - Australia FTA by a university:



So congratulations, we facilitated the expansion of Japanese and American auto manufacturers into Thailand to service the Australian market, in exchange for losing our own manufacturing industries.

You don't need to be an expert in something, you just need to recognise, take feedback from and make your decisions on the advice of those who are - being a politician, is the same as being a good manager, its all about relationship management.

They opened up to consultation from the industry, and then ignored it.

If anyone actually wants to debate this from an informed position, plenty of information out there from 20+ years ago that appears on the first page of Google, all from manufacturers who are now long gone.

Sorry, I disagree...taking advice from people who lobby is one thing but if you have NO understanding of what it takes to have an idea, design it, build a factory to make the components or source the components, assemble it, employee the staff to get your product from design to out the door....you are open to influence more easily than if you actually cut your hands on the floor in your younger days....

And yes I know some will say you didn't have to experience it to understand it, but by god if you did understand it better wouldn't decisions at least have some balance rather than self-interest always taking over.