Explanation of Falcon X model designation

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

I still like to think that AU stands for "Absolutely Ugly" and BA was "Bloody Amazing" for the makeover that it achieved with such a small budget, but that's just me.

Only good thing about the B Series was the turbo 6, rest was rubbish IMO. Shame the turbo 6 wasnt introduced with the AU.

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by Sar4890

As for ford sledging im cool with that. Not so much on the Brock sledging.

This.

And why try to turn an interesting Ford model decoding thread into a bash of an Aussie legend, and then so after his death?

WTF is wrong with people?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Sar4890

....Ford didnt get a truly australian designed car until the xa as by that stage the us falcon was gone...

Really

The 1972 Falcon XA looks remarkably similar to this 1968 US Ford Maverick styling clay don't you think




Ref: http://www.aus-ford-uk.co.uk/html/st...-_bonnets.html

[Sar4890]

Thats amazing! I have never seen those pics before i therefore must stand corrected.

[ipn]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Really

The 1972 Falcon XA looks remarkably similar to this 1968 US Ford Maverick styling clay don't you think

image
image

Ref: http://www.aus-ford-uk.co.uk/html/st...-_bonnets.html

Hi there , if you ever come up with a XD style can you post up on it ?

Thats the only one so far that i have not seen a "clone" from over there in movies or anything else like Tv serials and the likes .

All models up to the XA series and the same years for general motors Holden like you have show are clones only shrunk for here , some i recall after checking movie dates when the movie was made go back 10+ years "before" that same clone made it out here i noticed .

Fb/Fc were chevy and other breeds over there if fact there were heaps of all sorts .

Paul .

[GTLEGEND]

Originally Posted by ipn

Hi there , if you ever come up with a XD style can you post up on it ?

Thats the only one so far that i have not seen a "clone" from over there in movies or anything else like Tv serials and the likes .

All models up to the XA series and the same years for general motors Holden like you have show are clones only shrunk for here , some i recall after checking movie dates when the movie was made go back 10+ years "before" that same clone made it out here i noticed .

Fb/Fc were chevy and other breeds over there if fact there were heaps of all sorts .

Paul .

What about the Ford Granada, looks very close to an XD/E (although some cues it looks like a Cortina too)!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1980-Ford...oAAOSw6lRaX7i2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zfWgfZN9SY

[commodorenutt]

Motoring magazines from the era, and many history books have all noted the Blackwood Falcons nose & tail profiles were definitely shared with Ford Europe's upcoming Granada design (and again with the EA) but had a uniquely Aussie refinement to them - the wraparound XD front bar is so much nicer than the cortina style bar on the front of that.
The side pressings in the doors, and window profiles, and mirrors more closely resemble the US Ford Fairmont from the early 80s. It was definitely a global influence.


Here's a bit of trivia - I used to have an FC LTD. One day I noticed the headlights had the same Bosch date stickers on them as the VC commodore I had at the time, so I started looking more closely at the finer details. The reflectors were almost identical in profile & fittings, except the Commodore ones were a little taller to look at.

As the models progressed, local content increased - for the VH, Holden used Hella headlights (just like the tail lights), and I remember a ZL I wrecked out also used Hella headlights, with the innards being mostly XF (with minor changes to the plastic housing to accomodate the larger rectangular lense). Seems they weren't too far off each other as far as Euro>Aus influences after all......

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Really

The 1972 Falcon XA looks remarkably similar to this 1968 US Ford Maverick styling clay don't you think

image
image

Ref: http://www.aus-ford-uk.co.uk/html/st...-_bonnets.html

From what I recall the US Ford main styling guy came out here and guided the design team..................so calling XA Australian designed is complete BS.

Happy Australia Day everyone Mick

[Ford17]

I question whether the picture of the 1968 clay above really was a Maverick.

Some interesting reading on the topic of the XA's design:

https://ateupwithmotor.com/model-his...falcon-part-2/
https://www.shannons.com.au/club/new...aussie-falcon/ (requires a log on to see the full article, the set up is free)

[hackney]

Originally Posted by HO 3

From what I recall the US Ford main styling guy came out here and guided the design team..................so calling XA Australian designed is complete BS.

Happy Australia Day everyone Mick

They assisted the Australian design team,but the major input was from the Aus team.So,it is not complete “BS”as you so eloquently put it.Cheers

[Ford17]

The Australian design team had to go to the US to work on the XA, as they didn't have a proper design studio in Australia at the time.

[Sar4890]

So without the barrage of criticism would it be fair to say it was more Australian than its predecessors?

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Ford17

I question whether the picture of the 1968 clay above really was a Maverick.

Some interesting reading on the topic of the XA's design:

https://ateupwithmotor.com/model-his...falcon-part-2/
https://www.shannons.com.au/club/new...aussie-falcon/ (requires a log on to see the full article, the set up is free)

Yeah that so called 1968 Maverick clay does look mysteriously like our XA . Probably more likely it's actually an XA concept clay done in the US. I've always thought our XA design was heavily influenced by the 4 door design of the Torino several years earlier. I read that link you posted and it mentions the head of the Australian design team Jack Telnack. He was an American if I'm not mistaken.

Cheers Mick

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Sar4890

So without the barrage of criticism would it be fair to say it was more Australian than its predecessors?

I think a more accurate take on it would be because of successful collaboration between US and Australian stylists on XA it resulted in Ford Au getting its own dedicated design facility.

Cheers Mick

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by hackney

They assisted the Australian design team,but the major input was from the Aus team.So,it is not complete “BS”as you so eloquently put it.Cheers

Good luck pushing that argument uphill sunshine ...............but no doubt you are feverishly working on it.

Cheers Mick

[Mercury Bullet]

I'd be so disappointed to find out the xa was American.

I love the look of an XAGT sedan.

When I was a kid in the early 70's xygt's were everywhere.
Xagt's were a much rarer beast.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

I'd be so disappointed to find out the xa was American.
When I was a kid in the early 70's xygt's were everywhere.

Just spotted a cool old XY ute full of scaffolding and house paint splatter at Beechworth today. Paint looked original faded dark green, any ideas what colour that would be.
Yeah, I can remember them being everywhere once.

[solarite_guy]

I really don't remember a 1968 Ford Maverick. Was it a concept in '68?

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Really

The 1972 Falcon XA looks remarkably similar to this 1968 US Ford Maverick styling clay don't you think

image
image

Ref: http://www.aus-ford-uk.co.uk/html/st...-_bonnets.html

Yes that is our XA Falcon but Australia did the ute p van and wagon with help from yanks here, I knew this like 20 years ago.

The XD Falcon was out truly Aussie Ford designed car from clay up not to mention the X Flow 6 cyl was ours as well.

[Sar4890]

According to Wikipedia they ran from April 1969 to 1977 in the Us so I'm assuming that would make the first one a 1970 model. I guess that would be to replace to falcon which went to 70 1/2 as its last model.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Sar4890

Considering both the fx(48-215) and the xk were both styled in america and the falcon built there its no suprise that in old american films you will either see the actual car in the falcons case or similiar vehicles in the fx's case. Ford didnt get a truly australian designed car until the xa as by that stage the us falcon was gone. As for ford sledging im cool with that. Not so much on the Brock sledging.

No car in Australia could of been built up from scratch by any company, our boys just got more advanced as time went on but still got help from USA.

Our Aussie Valiant must be given the award for the Hemi 6 in 1970.

Our Aussie Ford must be given the award for the X Flow 6cyl and the XD 1979 not to mention the XA ute p van and wagon and Hardtop in 1972 and then the Falcon OHC and DOHC 6 cyl not to mention Turbo 6.

Our Holden's well the 253 and 308 had a bit more Aussie involvement than the Hemi 6 in all but Ford has to of won the most Aussie input of all.

[HO 3]

I've always thought the pics of XA styling clays fitted with Magnum 500 wheels looked very cool.............such a shame we never got them as a rim option here.

Cheers Mick

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by HO 3

Yeah that so called 1968 Maverick clay does look mysteriously like our XA . Probably more likely it's actually an XA concept clay done in the US. I've always thought our XA design was heavily influenced by the 4 door design of the Torino several years earlier. I read that link you posted and it mentions the head of the Australian design team Jack Telnack. He was an American if I'm not mistaken.

Cheers Mick

Those links both give a good story on the XA development.

I reckon someone found that 1968 "Maverick" clay picture, didn't know what it was (because Australia was so far away & it's market unknown), and just guessed it was associated with the Maverick; which was in fact more of a mid-sized car.

And you're right - a chopped down Torino was the catalyst for the clean sheet XA design, as it (reduced Torino) just didn't look any good.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Ford17

Those links both give a good story on the XA development.

I reckon someone found that 1968 "Maverick" clay picture, didn't know what it was (because Australia was so far away & it's market unknown), and just guessed it was associated with the Maverick; which was in fact more of a mid-sized car.

And you're right - a chopped down Torino was the catalyst for the clean sheet XA design, as it (reduced Torino) just didn't look any good.

Yeah that's a good summation................I think a few here are surprised how early the initial XA concept was nutted out, albeit with modernised revised for 1972 slightly higher hip line. The Intermediate ZF Fairlane platform would be pretty close to being a transplanted 1970 4 door Torino. But of course our Aussie market demanded a Compact for its volume sales and the XA Falcon was designed.

Cheers Mick

[ipn]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

What about the Ford Granada, looks very close to an XD/E (although some cues it looks like a Cortina too)!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1980-Ford...oAAOSw6lRaX7i2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zfWgfZN9SY

I'd say that was a XD if i did not see that it was over there for sure .
One has to add a few years in the planning/styling pre-dating the year too .

Cheers .

[ipn]

Originally Posted by Ford17

Those links both give a good story on the XA development.

I reckon someone found that 1968 "Maverick" clay picture, didn't know what it was (because Australia was so far away & it's market unknown), and just guessed it was associated with the Maverick; which was in fact more of a mid-sized car.

And you're right - a chopped down Torino was the catalyst for the clean sheet XA design, as it (reduced Torino) just didn't look any good.

I'm not arguing ok , far before the Ford involvement of a XA style i have seen in movies or whatever they were (can't recall , only recall seeing them) something in the lines of Plymouth? dodge? or some other obscure brand that i also don't recall as since i ain't a car nut or historian , and talking about historians where were those that knew about the over there already so why are they New here whatever the manufacturer's name was a XA copy before the XA style even existed here .

One has to remember over there in the usa the amount of makers and models were staggering , nearly all copied each other in some way and even years later reinvigorated something from other makes or models claiming it "theirs".

And i'd also type here of a subject called "marketing spin" , who is gunna say we copied such and such from such and such , who is not gunna say we did not invent or design this or that just for you the people and blah blah blah .

Mount Panorama the battle between Ford and Holden , American cars and imo it's been BS for years , after the WW2 it all started imo , all those backroom deals favoring certain entities , like did you know Australia was not allowed to make a Watch , or a Barometer by law , cheese imports ha ha ha, they had to be imported and if one pokes around in history there has been a lot that has been fiddled with by law that benefits everyone else except this Dump !.

It's all been a Con and that's why things are changing now or slowly changing back from around 15 years ago or so , the 50 year backroom Deal , that's why the yanks are ****ing off and coinciding with that the Good English people have not too long ago finally paid the WW2 War years loans off back to the yanks , then we get Brexit , then around and around we all go again .

Paul

(Any body fall asleep reading all that? WAKE UP!)

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by ipn

I'm not arguing ok , far before the Ford involvement of a XA style i have seen in movies or whatever they were (can't recall , only recall seeing them) something in the lines of Plymouth? dodge? or some other obscure brand that i also don't recall as since i ain't a car nut or historian , and talking about historians where were those that knew about the over there already so why are they New here whatever the manufacturer's name was a XA copy before the XA style even existed here .

One has to remember over there in the usa the amount of makers and models were staggering , nearly all copied each other in some way and even years later reinvigorated something from other makes or models claiming it "theirs".

And i'd also type here of a subject called "marketing spin" , who is gunna say we copied such and such from such and such , who is not gunna say we did not invent or design this or that just for you the people and blah blah blah .

Mount Panorama the battle between Ford and Holden , American cars and imo it's been BS for years , after the WW2 it all started imo , all those backroom deals favoring certain entities , like did you know Australia was not allowed to make a Watch , or a Barometer by law , cheese imports ha ha ha, they had to be imported and if one pokes around in history there has been a lot that has been fiddled with by law that benefits everyone else except this Dump !.

It's all been a Con and that's why things are changing now or slowly changing back from around 15 years ago or so , the 50 year backroom Deal , that's why the yanks are ****ing off and coinciding with that the Good English people have not too long ago finally paid the WW2 War years loans off back to the yanks , then we get Brexit , then around and around we all go again .

Paul

(Any body fall asleep reading all that? WAKE UP!)

And there is me stupidly believing the 5 Ford books that all state XA was designed by Australians for Australia and the XA coupe was recommended to be designed on the Torino but was found to look awkward due to the longer overhang of the Torino.

oh well, learn soemthign new, love a good conspiracy.

[GT1533]

Hi All. First time posting, but I have been a long time reader of the forum, and really enjoy the discussions that go on here. I worked for Ford Australia/NZ for many years – from the XC through to the BA Falcon, including a lot of time in product development. Out of work now, and I like to research some of the history of our mighty Falcon, so I thought I could add some of my knowledge to the discussion.

To address the OP question, obviously the XK, XL, XM etc were before my time, but I believe the response given by Hackney as to where the XK label came from is correct. In a book titled “Disaster in Dearborn: The Story of the Edsel” by Thomas E Bonsall there is the following paragraph (P172)

In April of 1958, Ford Division had presented the “Ford Economy Car Program” to, and received approval from, the Board of Directors for the 1960 Ford XK Thunderbird (later renamed the Falcon).

I would assume that they used the XK code for the engineering drawings that were used in the US and also sent to Australia. It would make sense as the Falcon name wasn’t settled until 1959, long after the design and engineering would have been completed. This is confirmed by a New York Times article from 1959.

So someone in product development in Australia, (and presumably Canada, Mexico, Argentina and Chile) received drawings with XK on them and adopted the code for local use. Not sure if they did the same in the other countries where it was assembled.

Just as an aside, the book mentioned above continues:

The following month, a similar program, codenamed Canberra, was initiated by the M(Mercury)-E(Edsel)-L(Lincoln) Division. The M-E-L Division made its preliminary presentation to the Ford product planning committee in July 1958, outlining the use of the Ford XK Thunderbird as a basis for an Edsel compact. … The final program was presented to the product planning committee in September 1958, duly approved, and codenamed the 1961 Edsel B.

I added that bit as I think it is interesting that there was an Edsel version of the Falcon approved (but which never made it to production as the Edsel line was cancelled in 1959), and that there was an Australian connection with the codename. With a codename Canberra it was doomed to failure!

A quick google search came up with the following pictures of the “Edsel Falcon” clays.
http://www.61thriftpower.com/edsel.shtml
The Falcon relationship is clearly evident in the C-pillar/roofline, scalloped body sides and wheel arch shape.

Enough for my first post! I’ll come back later and share how the following Australian Falcon model codes progressed.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by bungarra

And there is me stupidly believing the 5 Ford books that all state XA was designed by Australians for Australia and the XA coupe was recommended to be designed on the Torino but was found to look awkward due to the longer overhang of the Torino.

oh well, learn soemthign new, love a good conspiracy.

There was a lot of input by Aussies in successive models after the transplanted XK Falcon reliability disaster. I think it was collapsing ball joints or something or other. Bill Burke was probably trying to make a point "That Its Fixed" when he initiated that 70k mile reliability trial a few years later.

Cheers Mick

[Sar4890]

When you guys get a chance google 1970 1/2 US ford falcon it looks very similar to a torino . As far as falcons go you would have to go back to the 1960/ xk to find a model that was identical in sedans i believe the others that followed used mercury comet bits and pieces as a 1964 or 65 US falcon looks nothing like an xm/xp then in 1966 they came back to looking somewhat the same as our domestic xr/xt range. In a around about way im thinking our xa would have been put to bed you would think by the time the 1970 1/2 was released.