The BS of petrol pricing

[TMC]

They've upped the price to make a bit of profit before the carbon tax rolls in. What's the bet the price may slightly drop or stay the same when the carbon tax starts, therefore making the government look good. The same thing happened before the GST came in. About 6 mnths before, the price leapt and never came down again. Remember back then, retailers were told that if they jacked up there prices by more than around 10% when the GST started the government was going to jump on them. That was easy to get around though. They just jacked there prices up before the GST kicked in. Simple.

New taxes always destabilise pricing.

[Kevaclone]

Originally Posted by music189

I thought the ACCC or government blocked the sale to Caltex due to competion laws but I stand to be corrected

correct, sort of
the sale of Mobil sites to Caltex would have given them something like 42% of retail outlets in Australia making them the largest retailer which could mean they could have a monopoly. The ACCC put strict conditions on the sale which Caltex refused so the sale didn't go through. this left the door open for 7-11 to buy them up and they definitely didn't pay through the nose for them since Mobil(Exxon) were wanting to exit the retail sector and concentrate on oil production and refining

7-11 have been using the majors for supply for many years, I used to deliver to 7-11 for BP back in 2000, then while at Caltex around 2005 they were the Supplier, in 2008 Shell got the contract, at the end of 2011 the Shell contract finished and 7-11 contracted the cartage(in QLD) to Linfox and Cootes with trailers pained in 7-11 colours, with supply coming from Mobil(BP Whinstanes terminal)

two other companies have also expanded significantly in the last few years.
United(buying up many older Caltex, BP and Shell sites) and Neumann/Matilda(bought by Neumann in 2007) meanwhile Freedom have gotten smaller, mainly due to their ethanol(e10/e85) and Biodiesel only sites

[JG34JA]

Actually I think throughout this thread Bob has absolutely nailed it. More input costs that are not the source of fuel itself certainly won't be helping keep prices down. We'll pay ourselves more, feeding this trend:

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012...-receivership/

[Kevaclone]

also the states have just voted to up the fuel excise on diesel by 2.6cpl and up the cost on registration for heavy vehicles(but reduce the cost on "A" trailer rego for B Doubles)

[Kevaclone]

Also the Retailers(franchisee) receives a min of about 2cpl no matter what price they are told to sell the fuel for, this is just to cover the costs of dispensing the fuel(console op and general maintenance) they make the most of their money from shop sales. Which explains why in some places it's hard to even see the console op due to the promo stands on the counter

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

E10 at the local shell was 139.9 which I thought was pretty good. I agree with the price changes you see in x hrs. I used to drive past a servo going to work and say to myself that I would fill up on the way home only to see the price up 15c ...

I thought they were talking of capping price changes over a set time? Would be nice to have a bit of predictability for those who budget...

Wait till the Coles / Woolies duopoly get stronger... Will have less choice to shop around.

That 139.9 went up to 157.9 over night, then back down to 155.9 this evening....

Seems Diesel is pretty stable.. only fluctuated a few cents over the same period.

[JXRT66]

I paid $1.70 odd this morning for 98. What a bargain!!!

[Nic85]

I've gotta play devils advocate here...

Petrol invariably goes up on Thursday as part of their "cycle", so fill up on Wednesday.

"Too late Thursday."

Even if it's 15c dearer than yesterday, on a full 60L tank that's still only $9. I would wager my house that 90% of people on here spend more than that in coffee from your favourite coffee shop each week.

We won't see petrol around $1/L ever again guys. $1.50+ will be the norm, with $2/L not far away. Diesel prices seem to stay within about 5 or 6 cents of variation.

If you can't afford the petrol for your car, then it's time to trade it in on something cheaper to run.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Nic85

$1.50+ will be the norm, with $2/L not far away.

thats been getting said for 15 years now. a lot of economists were predicting another financial crisis not that long ago. i don't think anyone really knows whats going to happen.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by Nic85

If you can't afford the petrol for your car, then it's time to trade it in on something cheaper to run.

*Gets new pushbike and helmet ready*

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by prydey

thats been getting said for 15 years now. a lot of economists were predicting another financial crisis not that long ago. i don't think anyone really knows whats going to happen.

What is for sure is that petrol prices are not coming down.

[buddy92]

I would LOVE $1.40 fuel.

$1.73 here :\

[Olbucko]

Why do we winge so much about the price of petrol, it is only marginaly more expensive than it was 45 years ago. When I first had a licence in 1964 it cost me $5 to fill the tank of my Father's Valiant, which took the average working man about 5-6 hours to earn, at 90c per hour. Today the same worker would earn $16-18 per hour and the same tank would cost about $80 to fill, almost exactly the same cost.
We pay less for petrol than most countries in the world, the Americans might pay less per litre than us, but the average american worker's pay is about 50% lower than in Aust.(US$9-12 per hour)
We just have to accept that over the years the cost some things go down dramatically, like communications and electronics, some things fall a little like cars, petrol has stayed about the same, and some things like houses have risen dramatically.

[buddy92]

Originally Posted by RPI

Why do we winge so much about the price of petrol, it is only marginaly more expensive than it was 45 years ago. When I first had a licence in 1964 it cost me $5 to fill the tank of my Father's Valiant, which took the average working man about 5-6 hours to earn, at 90c per hour. Today the same worker would earn $16-18 per hour and the same tank would cost about $80 to fill, almost exactly the same cost.
We pay less for petrol than most countries in the world, the Americans might pay less per litre than us, but the average american worker's pay is about 50% lower than in Aust.(US$9-12 per hour)
We just have to accept that over the years the cost some things go down dramatically, like communications and electronics, some things fall a little like cars, petrol has stayed about the same, and some things like houses have risen dramatically.

And us young people that wearn't here 45 yrs ago have to live like it because old people do?

And the families who struggle?

[XPL37V]

People often mention 30yrs ago a house was 10k-20k and now its 350k+
and its in line with what we get payed but then i think about back then i thought that the wife stayed home and only the man worked, now that's only a single income to pay a house, car and kids with, yet today it's so hard even with two incomes?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Nic85

What is for sure is that petrol prices are not coming down.

i bet everyone was saying that in 2008 as well. fuel ended up back under a dollar in some markets. i'm not saying that will happen again, but those sort of statements just set you up for a fall.

things can go pear shaped very quickly. america is broke, most of europe is on knife edge, the euro isn't working...

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by prydey

i bet everyone was saying that in 2008 as well. fuel ended up back under a dollar in some markets. i'm not saying that will happen again, but those sort of statements just set you up for a fall.

things can go pear shaped very quickly. america is broke, most of europe is on knife edge, the euro isn't working...

And this is what gives a bit of credence to my statement.

Who knows, I could be wrong and petrol will come down to $1/L again. I sure hope so!

[ROBBO1981]

i look at fuel watch in our state and fill both our cars on the cheapest day if possible, some days i win others Ill loose.

live closer to work, school's, entertainment. Live within your means.

[MattSAU2XR8]

I used to work at a petrol station and agree that the site operator does not make a lot from the fuel. Here's how it used to work about 7 years ago in Melbourne at Mobil sites in Melbourne:
- Site operator (my boss) leased the site from Mobil and the deal was that he was supposed to make about 3 cents per litre on the fuel. He would alos put at least 30 % markup (often much more) on all his store goods, eg. cigarettes, drinks, food, oils.
Mobil would charge the site operator a very high price for fuel dropped into his underground tanks, eg. $1.50 per litre for standard ULP in today's money,
- Each day he would be rang up and given a price he was allowed to sell fuel for, eg. $1.33 on a good day, in today's money, this was called 'price support'
- In calculating how much 'price support' to provide the oil company would balance the need to compete with other LOCAL sites against the reduced profit that comes with a lower price, so are sometimes willing to be a little bit more expensive if a higher margin on less litres sold gives the same profit, and also increases demand later in the week (customers tanks empty).
- He would then receive a rebate on a daily basis for litres sold, so if he sold 10,000 litres on a the day described he would be reimbursed (1.50 - 1.33 + 0.03) * 10,000 = $2000.

So if you can understand what I've said above, what this means is that the price at the refinery gate has very little meaning since the profit margin the site operator receives is (at least in some cases) determined AFTER he sells the fuel, not before it is delivered.

So as far as ideas go to keep money in your pocket and out of the oil companies pockets:
- Don't drive a thirsty car (too much),
- Try to buy on a cheap day (as long as you don't spend all day driving around looking for cheap fuel),
- Keep a log of how many kms you get from each company's and site's fuel since not all pumps are 100 % accurate. My car runs on LPG and I've noticed that some sites manage to pump in more litres than the tank holds even when it is not quite empty.
- If you are feeling unhappy about a site's fuel price and have to buy fuel then buy only fuel and no smokes/milk/oils etc from them, since they will profit more from the store goods than the fuel anyway.

[menil]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

WTF. Nationalising anything normally costs alot more once the governments get their hands on an industry, and i can only assume that any industry that fell into the hands of the Gillard government would start costing 3 x alot more.

Plus what could australia actually nationalise. We own lots of petrol stations, we own 5 or 6 refineries, and we own approx 25% of the oil we use (and when i say own, i mean what the government could actually take ownership off).

Last I checked, I think the majority of the owners of the oil refineries in australia would be more than happy to give the australian government ownership (they simply cant compete with the huge refineries in Asia). Owning 25% of the oil we use would not give the government any chance of lowering prices, as australian fields are high cost in comparison to imports.

So it comes down to the retaling side of things. What profit do retailers make. When you look at the Tapis price of oil at the moment (circa $128 a barrel) or about 85 cents per litre if it was 100% converted to petrol. Add to that the roughly 50 cents a litre you pay in taxes (excise and gst). So from $1.35 per litre as a base price, you then have to add refining costs, all transport costs (it costs alot to own oil tankers, and a fleet of petrol tankers), storage cost, insurances, and retailing costs and margins. Anyone who is getting sub $1.50 petrol these days should count themselves lucky.

I think what you really want, is the government to nationalise one of the biggest components that influence petrol prices, and that being taxes. I've got news for you!!!

Not sure about this take a look at power prices in Victoria after the Gov. sold the SEC of Vic.

[TrishBAGurl]

I would totally agree, although a bloke who come and brought some parts of me had been here a week from scotland, during convo, i discovered fuel over there was $3!! a LITRE!! meanwhile he had a BA ute and was soo stoked with it, apparently over in scots land the largest ford model is mondeo, i couldnt contain myself anyhow poor bloke had never driven a 6 let alone an 8! never the lest he was raving about the fuel prices