Qld revenue camersa tolerance to drop to 3 kph

[LTDHO]

Speed limits are dropping also, a road that was previously safe at one speed has been dropped by 20kph. Take into account that drivers will reduce a further 10 to 20 when they see a speed camera, we are driving dangerously slow.

I don't use my cruise anymore. To many people jumping on the brakes as the pass a current shape parked car with the fear it could be a camera. Tell me how safe the cameras are?

[MercurySilver]

lol

be glad people speed
becasue if no one did where the **** would al lthe money come from that they would miss out on?
your licence would be a grand a year and your car would double to reg it

ill let everyone else speed and ill go past the radar idiot that sits in the same spot every time in my local country area, not near the school zone tho for some reason, up the road on a hill...ill go past him doing 80kmh in the 80kmh zone
no slowing down by 5 kms 'just in case' rubbish

wont be raising any revenue from me by sitting on the hill trying to scam coin instead of sitting in the school zone during the school hrs and monitoring safety

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Strange the behaviour of drivers some report here, I drive an average of 250-500km per day (was around 410km yesterday) and I don't observe any of this strange behaviour, might just be a city thing.

Most people just seem to cruise along at or around the speed limit, most I find these days sit slightly under and get overtaken by those that sit slightly over by their own choice.

Never had any need to 'stare' at a speedo, just the casual glance every few seconds to maintain a steady speed. If you can't read your speedo at a glance and see if the needle is below 100km/hr or just over100km/hr I think you have a problem and probably are not equipped to be driving a car, and should probably consider other means of commuting.

Holding a drivers license is a privilege not a right, and if you are incapable of following basic rules, than I am quite happy for your privilege to be revoked for my safety and the safety of my family who are all road users, the speed limit is the limit, not the speed you must travel at, so you already have a huge tolerance.

I think people fail to understand the limit thing.

It appears some here are happy for the limit to be sign posted at lets say 60km/hr, but expect the limit to be somewhere above 60km/hr, makes no sense, the limit is 60, we know this, so why do we need another limit over the limit??

Drink driving limit in NSW for most drivers is 0.05, so should someone that gets caught at 0.052 be let off as they are only just above the limit?? Then what about someone that gets done at 0.053?? I mean you let the 0.052 guy off and this guy is only 0.001 over that, surly we can let him off as well, so where does it end???

[blueoval]

It's not the fines I have the issue with. It's the BS mantra they feed us in the name of safety that I hate. 'Speed cameras save lives'. What an utter load of ****

What happens when someone has an accident right in front of a speed camera and dies from it? Who is responsible for that persons death when the governments mantra is advertised that 'speed cameras save lives'. Why didn't it save that persons life? I will sit very eagerly with a bucket of popcorn for govco to wriggle out of that one in court.

By all means fine away, but treating everyone like complete and utter morons is not only degrading but condescending.

Why don't they just come out and call it a voluntary speeding tax or an over the speed limit tax?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Why don't they just come out and call it a voluntary speeding tax o

Haha thats what I call it, either a voluntary contribution to the Government or a stupidity tax, either way it's well earned.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Strange the behaviour of drivers some report here, I drive an average of 250-500km per day (was around 410km yesterday) and I don't observe any of this strange behaviour, might just be a city thing.

To be fair, out in the boondocks where you are there isn't a lot of camera (or vehicle) activity

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

To be fair, out in the boondocks where you are there isn't a lot of camera (or vehicle) activity

There you are wrong my friend, plenty of cameras, generally set up along the Newell where there is a speed change, or coming into townships, you will find a camera on any given day of the week.

Prime spots are coming into Moree from Inverell or Narrabri, or going through Boggabilla or Goondiwindi, and any of the little townships/villages like Gravesend, Warialda, Garah etc etc all get hit by cameras on a weekly basis. I travel one of the main traffic thoroughfares of the state of NSW daily, the Newell Highway, probably carries more traffic than most roads in the state.

EDIT:
In saying my original statement, I have had plenty of speeding fines in the past, and 10 years ago I was close to losing my license, which I needed for work, as back then I was travelling state wide on a weekly basis for work, so 10 years ago I made a conscious decision not to speed, and have not had a fine since the day I made that decision. I think people just need to make that decision and stick to it, its a bit like quitting smoking or losing weight, you need to make a decision and stick to it no matter what.

[Shonky.]

What about the economic cost of all this slowing down of motorists?

The wealth of an economy is driven by the volume of its productive inputs and the efficiency with which they are utilised.

Every Time people drive 10km/h slower think about everyone who takes longer to get where they are going. All the surgeons, engineers tradespeople and cleaners who can do just a little bit less in a day because we drop speed limits and then terrorise motorists into being fearful of doing heaven forbid 6km/h over the limit. I'm talking very small increments added up over millions of annual journeys.
Nobody wants to measure the cost of this loss. Instead all the messaging is to induce people to over value the supposed benefit in road safety.

What's a human life worth?
It has a value; but whenever the gov/police talk road safety they use language like "if it only saves one life it is worth it" Bullcrap. That is an emotional way of approaching decision making which should be done with data and with the brain.
Yes, yes, if it was my loved one I would feel different, but that's the thing, I would have lost my ability to be objective = poor decision making.
If you don't think a life has a value on it go to a hospital. Decisions are made every day over whether a life is worth saving. Purchasing decisions of infrastructure are driven almost purely by how many lives will be saved vs it's cost. How does the economic cost of a life in the hospital system compare to that on the road?
I don't know the answer to this, but the fact is nobody asks the question. Nobody wants to think critically about it, and for state government and police that's just perfect, because the empty space between people's ears can be filled with propaganda instead of free thought

Only 1300 odd people per year die per year on the roads vs 20,000 for heart disease, 10,000 cerebrovascular disease, 6,500 lung cancer etc, etc

Is road safety really as much of a problem as the propaganda would suggests?

All that aside, does anyone even test whether it's safer to make people drive at the same speed within 1 or 2 km/h or allow them to just focus on driving?
Wouldn't be hard to conduct experiments with video simulation. Have a sample group that are instructed to drive at exactly 60km/h vs a group who are allowed to choose their speed then see which group are more effective at avoiding random obstacles etc.
But once again that's not going to get a look in, as it would jeopardise the state government's revenue model.
The statement speed kills is not supported with any data. The closest they have come is by comparing stopping distances at different speeds. This does not factor in reaction times which are affected by things like having to watch a speedometer

The above aren't my firm beliefs, just food for thought. It's such a complex issue, to me the only dangerous thing is for us to accept the absolute nonsense that is feed to us.

In any other environment when one party has such a deep financial incentive to sway our thinking people are by nature very cynical.

State governments are unable to raise their own revenue via tax. They need money, this is how they raise it.

$1 in the hands of the private sector is economically much more powerful than the same $1 transferred to the state. They are taking private money that would have been spent on GDP and wasting it.

If you think you aren't impacted because you don't get fines think again

[XBROO]

Around Brissy there's camera around but there's a lot of unmarked cars that will just pull up anywhere and just blend in with other park cars. These are XR6, SV6, Nissan patrol, toyota camry looking things etc. So it's just not the fixed camera cars, oh forgot to mention bike cops, they put the bike out of sight and hide behind a power pole or a bush or srub. I have rarely seen these in the same spot, they do like sitting just past merging lanes where two lanes go into one. Then ping whoever is trying to get in front to merge, I suppose it's fair game but it's not for safety.

[Silver Ghia]

My only concern is missing a speed limit sign. If they were really concerned about speed, they would be painting the speed limit on the road where everyone would be looking, rather than only having a sign well to the side of the road amongst other posts and signs.

I set my cruise control on 40, 50, 60 80 or whatever and with the digital speed and cc setting in the FG, and I travel at that speed. Helps that my speedo reads the same as GPS. Never had a speed camera fine.

However its frustrating having to brake behind some numbskull who passed me a minute or so before, because they've jammed on the brakes due to a speed camera car by the side of the road.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

There you are wrong my friend, plenty of cameras, generally set up along the Newell where there is a speed change, or coming into townships, you will find a camera on any given day of the week.

Prime spots are coming into Moree from Inverell or Narrabri, or going through Boggabilla or Goondiwindi, and any of the little townships/villages like Gravesend, Warialda, Garah etc etc all get hit by cameras on a weekly basis. I travel one of the main traffic thoroughfares of the state of NSW daily, the Newell Highway, probably carries more traffic than most roads in the state.

Having driven 5-6 times a week from Wagga to Gundy for over 13 years I know the area reasonably well.

Most, if not all, cameras are in HP cars.

The only stationary ones on the Newell that I've seen were out on the open road and well signed, unlike Vic and Qld where they get sneaky.

In Gundy, it's usually sitting just down from the Caltex in the 80k zone on the bypass Rd

I can't comment on the Inverell rd as we only used that when the Newell was shut, and rarely used the Mungandi Rd.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by XBROO

...they do like sitting just past merging lanes where two lanes go into one. Then ping whoever is trying to get in front to merge, I suppose it's fair game but it's not for safety.

Pure revenue raising in this case, nothing to do with safety. If they were safety conscious, they would allow a reasonable tolerance to enable vehicles to merge safely back into one lane, without everyone having to jam their brakes on.

[Sprint]

This is the mentality of the Adverts now days by the cops.

In one add we see a guy pull out in front of someone like a jihad saying "c'mon mate it was just a mistake, the same add we see the other driver wanting to kill himself because he was going the legal 110, which is claimed just too fast... what a creep lol.

I might start cutting myself because I'm going too fast but not over the speed limit lol.

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Congestion in big cities is caused by a population of 4 million and virtually the same infrastructure from 30 years ago, of course there will be congestion, but being impatient isn't going to help, I hate the cities and avoid them like the plague, but I understand that when I am there I just sit on the speed limit and let every other bastard roar past me .....

You have evidence of this of course.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

I must be an exception to the rule because I can't remember that last time I got a fine for speeding (or anything for that matter)

And I can't remember the last time I crashed into someone coz I was looking at my speedo and not that road, in fact I can't remember the last time I ran into anyone full stop

Are you one of those annoying people then who drive 10-15 km/h below the speed limit because that's what you have to do to stay below without constantly checking the speedo, given that a vehicle will gain momentum on a downslope and lose it on an up (even cruise control doesn't always control that)?

That sort of variation is quite natural and harmless in driving but when you know there's something like a 3 km/h tolerance you have to spend a lot more time looking at the speedo and accelerating and braking if you want to stay near the limit to cover that country journey in a reasonable time.

I hope you at least have the courtesy to pull over occasionally to allow the tailback behind you to pass

I've only been driving for nearly 45 years in three different continents so I may not know much, but I do know how much better and more relaxed it is driving in those overseas jurisdictions where they don't have such an*l fixation on pursuit of revenue .. er, sorry, "road safety".

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Are you one of those annoying people then who drive 10-15 km/h below the speed limit because that's what you have to do to stay below without constantly checking the speedo, given that a vehicle will gain momentum on a downslope and lose it on an up (even cruise control doesn't always control that)?

NO!!!!!!!!

I sit on the speed limit, unless there are prevailing conditions that would prevent me doing that. Cruise is my friend

[BENT_8]

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!

'SPEED AND SAFETY CAMERA'S ARE PURE GOVCO REVENUE RAISERS'

There, i said it.
Now, anyone considering the above as an excuse to whinge about the consequences of their poor driving habits will have to face the reality that, yes, it is Govco's way of stealing your hard earned, and you fell for it.

Sucked in.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by csv8

Acting Assistant Commissioner Mike Keating said some bollocks......

and

"Assistant Commissioner Keating said no jurisdiction in Australia, or to his knowledge anywhere in the world, published or spoke publicly about what the limits of the actual limits of their tolerance were.

well, he obviously hasn't looked very hard

from Cambridgeshire UK http://www.cambs-police.co.uk/roadsa...afer-roads.pdf

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by simon varley

well, he obviously hasn't looked very hard

from Cambridgeshire UK http://www.cambs-police.co.uk/roadsa...afer-roads.pdf

And their tolerances appear to be far more realistic, around 10%.

[new2ford]

A couple of years ago the police chief in Czech Republic was quoted in the news as saying that they tolerated speeds up to about 20 km/h over the 130 km/h motorway limit provided drivers were driving safely for the conditions. Must try to locate the reference again.

Much more common sense-based over there.

And you're not constantly checking the speedo and jumping out of your pants every time you see a police car.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Sounds like some interesting laws overseas, so how do you then know if you are going to get fined and who decides what is driving to conditions?? Leaves everything wide open to interpretation and argument.

So why have a speed limit then?? May be just let people decide their own speed and then if a cop randomly decides that your speed is too fast for the conditions then he will hand you a fine.


May be then you can take said fine to court and argue that the speed was correct for conditions.

How does the cop know who is driving?? I don't want my father in law on the road he is a menace at any speed, so him driving down the motorway at 80km/hr would be too fast but the same motorway with me in a new AMG Merc may be fine at 180km/hr.

[simon varley]

if you are a "good enough" driver then you are deemed to be "good enough" to drive at the posted speed limit (under nominal conditions). If I was a cop and saw your dad (or anyone) driving at 20 under on a highway I'd be pulling them over for dangerous driving. If "speed differential" is as dangerous as they would have us believe then the difference between 80-100 is as bad as 100-120

[simon varley]

the reference I was looking for from the UK and can't find any more was on the ACPO site (association of chief police officers) and it clearly stated a tolerance of 10%+2mph for traffic infringements.

[flooded one]

I think $157 plus 1 demerit points a bit silly for doing 103km/h in a 100km/h. fair enough in school zones etc

[b0son]

The majority of drivers speed. The only reason to police <5kph infringements, which are statistically negligible contributors to the road toll, is to make criminals of the majority, claim the problem is an epidemic, and police it even more.

[csv8]

and in the UK... "All drivers who travel at more than 70 miles per hour on the motorway face being fined under radical new proposals being considered.

Speed cameras would be switched on permanently across stretches of the motorway network catching everyone who exceeded the limit.

Motorists would then be forced to pay a £100 fine as well as having points added to their licence, or could opt instead to attend a speed awareness course, costing £90.

But rather than being used to improve road safety, the controversial plan is intended to raise millions of pounds in revenue for the police.

The “zero-tolerance” approach to motorway speeding is the brainchild of Bedfordshire Police and would be rolled out across a busy stretch of the M1, used by tens of thousands of cars each day."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...motorways.html
My comment : at least he is honest, not like our Police.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Strange the behaviour of drivers some report here, I drive an average of 250-500km per day (was around 410km yesterday) and I don't observe any of this strange behaviour, might just be a city thing.

Most people just seem to cruise along at or around the speed limit, most I find these days sit slightly under and get overtaken by those that sit slightly over by their own choice.

Never had any need to 'stare' at a speedo, just the casual glance every few seconds to maintain a steady speed. If you can't read your speedo at a glance and see if the needle is below 100km/hr or just over100km/hr I think you have a problem and probably are not equipped to be driving a car, and should probably consider other means of commuting.

Holding a drivers license is a privilege not a right, and if you are incapable of following basic rules, than I am quite happy for your privilege to be revoked for my safety and the safety of my family who are all road users, the speed limit is the limit, not the speed you must travel at, so you already have a huge tolerance.

I think people fail to understand the limit thing.

It appears some here are happy for the limit to be sign posted at lets say 60km/hr, but expect the limit to be somewhere above 60km/hr, makes no sense, the limit is 60, we know this, so why do we need another limit over the limit??

Drink driving limit in NSW for most drivers is 0.05, so should someone that gets caught at 0.052 be let off as they are only just above the limit?? Then what about someone that gets done at 0.053?? I mean you let the 0.052 guy off and this guy is only 0.001 over that, surly we can let him off as well, so where does it end???

Since the limit used to be 0.08, due to the fact that the measurable reaction speed difference is negligable, then maybe there should be a fine and loss of points for 0.05-0.08. Instead people who blow 0.05 lose their license for a minimum of 3 months.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by flooded one

I think $157 plus 1 demerit points a bit silly for doing 103km/h in a 100km/h. fair enough in school zones etc

Speed limits in suburbia are essential, but get on a motorway or interstate highway, why bother enforcing or even having 100 kph+ zones ?

[Trevor 57]

after spending 13 years pulling living and dead people from cars (using jaws of life etc) bring on 0.00 BAC for everyone, simple rule, you have had a drink then you don't drive, saves confusion or misunderstanding, but then again you will always have the ******* who couldn't give a **** about other road users, because "it will never happen to me"

Yesterday one of my wifes supervisor was cleaned up at an intersection where it appears a bloke didn't give way, she is now in the Alfred hospital with suspected spinal injuries, nice lady, had her teenage son in the car

[XBROO]

Trev I agree with 0.00 but only after they have been caught more then once. It shouldn't be for everyone especially people doing the right thing. I can understand what you have seen over the years would have a big impact on your point of view. But lets be real the ones that are in accidents or cause them are well over the limit.

And sorry to hear about your wifes supervisor, no one needs to have that happen to them and even worst this time of year.