new anti smoking add- see the whole face with the teeth.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by AU2PWR

Personally , if you smoke and you get Cancer , your dont deserve a Transplant , or Excessive Help to repair the Damage you have done against Medical Advice .

Lol, what a horrible thing to say... by the same logic, someone "stupid" enough to go drag racing doesnt deserve medical attention when they put the thing into the wall??

Uranium_death - good post!! Ill certainly keep the smoke out of your way (always have, just dont bug me when im standing outside, away from buildings, like many people who go out of their way to walk past me so they can put on their best fake cough and give me daggers!)

Oh... and try to keep that disgusting fresh air to yourself

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

As for the health arguements- I really could not care about longevity. I had an old lady who could barely walk come into my shop and thought "Why the **** would I want to live that long to be barely able to stand?" Hell I wouldn't want to live that long even if I could stand to be honest.

The logic used by members on this forum continues to break through barriers I never knew existed. Bravo, bravo.........

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

/Lights up another smoke.

If smoking cost the government more than it earns them do you really think it wouldn't be banned?

Whom do you imagine is paying for the adds?

The government is offering tabacco growers in Nth Victoria huge cash incentives to not plant tabacco. The equivalent of what they would make for a whole season, to plant something else. The government will only payout if all the growers sign up.

The financial burden smokers place on the rest of the community far out ways the revenue raised by taxing smokers.

There's an argument the "government" (elected by everyone), should not be involved in trying to reduce the number of people who smoke. The government should not be involved in reducing the number of new smokers. That given the dangers of smoking have been discussed for a long time, our elected representives should not be involved in bring us the most up to date information in a format easily accessed by everyone. I can not agree with any of these arguments.

I'm an ex-smoker of 20 years. If people wish to smoke, knock yourself out.

But don't expect all of the 70% of people who don't smoke to remain silent.

Prohibition will not work, education is our best hope.

[GreenMachine]

Originally Posted by xcgxl

My grandfather has never smoked and he's still alive, 87 in May.

My grandfather just turned 91, and he smoked from when he was 15 to three or four years ago. No ill effects whatsoever. Quit because tobacco was getting too expensive.

I propose that we pit our grandfathers against each other, to finally settle the smoking vs non-smoking score. It may not solve anything, but neither will this thread.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

The financial burden smokers place on the rest of the community far out ways the revenue raised by taxing smokers.

Possibly. But the figures which contribute to the suggestion that smokers cost australians more than the 5 or so billion of tax revenue they generate have a huge component of "indirect" costs. A large portion of the "cost" is attributed to lost productivity or the loss of a member of the workforce and more importantly, the resources which are diverted to the production of tobacco products (i.e. what if that peter jackson factory was making childrens toys instead?). They also tack on the consumption of a deceased individual, which of course ignores the productivity of that person prior up until the point of disablement/death. These are not DIRECT costs which directly affect the government's bottom line, business' bottom line or a non-smoking indivdual's bottom line.

i.e. how does the $x of lost productivity from my likely early death as a result of smoking directly affect the financial position of anyone else on these forums?

The direct costs associated with smoking (predominantly anti smoking campagins, tobacco regulation and incurred healthcare expenses) are much much less than the billions of dollars in taxation revenue generated.



Read it from the government themselves

Notwithstanding the large public health costs associated with smoking, governments derive a large net budgetary benefit from the existence of smoking

In answer to:

Whom do you imagine is paying for the adds?

Well frankly, smokers are paying for them - and then a whole lot more.

But don't expect all of the 70% of people who don't smoke to remain silent.

I wouldnt dream of it. Just dont suggest that i am a direct burden to you. Because i am not.

Edir: Ooops - poor form on my behalf to omit this, source data :

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/C...98/98cib16.htm

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

The direct costs associated with smoking (predominantly anti smoking campagins, tobacco regulation and incurred healthcare expenses) are much much less than the billions of dollars in taxation revenue generated.

Using your logic we should legalise hard drugs and tax it to the hills as well. We should also legalise petrol sniffing, and then the government can slap some more excise on it!!!

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Possibly. But the figures which contribute to the suggestion that smokers cost australians more than the 5 or so billion of tax revenue they generate have a huge component of "indirect" costs. A large portion of the "cost" is attributed to lost productivity or the loss of a member of the workforce and more importantly, the resources which are diverted to the production of tobacco products (i.e. what if that peter jackson factory was making childrens toys instead?). They also tack on the consumption of a deceased individual, which of course ignores the productivity of that person prior up until the point of disablement/death. These are not DIRECT costs which directly affect the government's bottom line, business' bottom line or a non-smoking indivdual's bottom line.

i.e. how does the $x of lost productivity from my likely early death as a result of smoking directly affect the financial position of anyone else on these forums?

The direct costs associated with smoking (predominantly anti smoking campagins, tobacco regulation and incurred healthcare expenses) are much much less than the billions of dollars in taxation revenue generated.



Read it from the government themselves





In answer to:



Well frankly, smokers are paying for them - and then a whole lot more.



I wouldnt dream of it. Just dont suggest that i am a direct burden to you. Because i am not.

Keep puffing away Mr 4.9, hell I'll even buy you a carton next time I travel OS. :

[GXL078]

It still makes no rational sense to me. Just a dirty, expensive habit that kills you.

[JC]

Originally Posted by gthofan

hey guys, i just saw a new anti smoking add on tv. everyone knows the image of the teeth on cigarette packets, well now you can see the rest of the face in the tv commercial.

i have to say, its one of the most disturbing things ive ever seen, and believe it shouldnt continue.

what are your thoughts?

cheers
scott

write to the advertising standards board, not AFF. We can't help get the ad pulled, but the ASB can, if enough complaints are received.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

Using your logic we should legalise hard drugs and tax it to the hills as well. We should also legalise petrol sniffing, and then the government can slap some more excise on it!!!

My logic? This is current prevailing practice, my friend! I dare not dream of such stroke of genious to tax an addictive product.

Ask yourself: If the cost was as high as some proponents claim... if the proposition to society was that unpallatable, would the current situation prevail?

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Keep puffing away Mr 4.9, hell I'll even buy you a carton next time I travel OS. :

Lol, keep it domestic OBJ! Support your local budget surplus

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Lol, keep it domestic OBJ! Support your local budget surplus

Good point, buy Australian at all costs. Almost broke one of my own rules!!! :

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Keep puffing away Mr 4.9, hell I'll even buy you a carton next time I travel OS. :

While you're at it, throw me a carton :

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Possibly. But the figures which contribute to the suggestion that smokers cost australians more than the 5 or so billion of tax revenue they generate have a huge component of "indirect" costs. A large portion of the "cost" is attributed to lost productivity or the loss of a member of the workforce and more importantly, the resources which are diverted to the production of tobacco products (i.e. what if that peter jackson factory was making childrens toys instead?). They also tack on the consumption of a deceased individual, which of course ignores the productivity of that person prior up until the point of disablement/death. These are not DIRECT costs which directly affect the government's bottom line, business' bottom line or a non-smoking indivdual's bottom line.

i.e. how does the $x of lost productivity from my likely early death as a result of smoking directly affect the financial position of anyone else on these forums?

The direct costs associated with smoking (predominantly anti smoking campagins, tobacco regulation and incurred healthcare expenses) are much much less than the billions of dollars in taxation revenue generated.



Read it from the government themselves





In answer to:



Well frankly, smokers are paying for them - and then a whole lot more.



I wouldnt dream of it. Just dont suggest that i am a direct burden to you. Because i am not.

Wow, that was a very quick and well articulated answer 4.9 EF Futura. One can only imagine you saw it coming form past threads on this subject. So you should have remembered to source your (15 year old) information.
Don't bother we have been down this road before. I have posted all the relevant information, you choose not to except it.

The problem for you is no one in government agrees with you. State or Federal, all parties agree smoking costs the community. And agree we need to invest in campains to stop people smoking and reduce the number taking it up.

We live in a democracy so you are more than welcome to start your own political party, may be call it, " the truth in government statistics related to the cost of smoking to the community party". I'll be sure to look out for it at the next election.

If you wish to smoke knock yourself out. But please don't kid yourself your actions are benign.

[GT-E]

Being an EX SMOKER, 20 years addicted and now 1 year clean, I feel can post on this subject.
Firstly let’s get some facts straight.

Smokers = Drug addicts. They are addicted to Nicotine and require a regular hit.
Only stupid people smoke (I was once)

Any smoker who enjoys smoking are lying to themselves and know it. If you enjoy something it must be good, so you should also teach your friends, family and children about this "enjoyable" pastime you have and get them hooked. I bet you won't.

Only 19% of the population are smokers, yet they affect 100% of the population. Either by making us breathe their filth or by being a health burden on family, work and healthcare.

Once you know how, smoking is not difficult to quit, you just need to WANT to quit. The old saying goes: "NOBODY HAS EVER DIED FROM QUITTING SMOKING, BUT MANY DIE FROM NOT QUITTING".

For all the holier than now smokers, I only have one thing to say:
You are stupid and you stink.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Apologies for that oversight WorkHorse - citation was been placed into my previous post shortly after i posted it. Yes the information is dated... such is the joy of working with data sourced by various govt agencies ("current" census data is from 2001) particualrly when such data is only collated for the purposes of a specific study.

Well as weve all seen over the past 10 years, there is a significant gap between a government/party's stated position and the prevailing practice. I choose not to observe what one preaches but rather, how one behaves. There's no need to start my own party - the major parties already imply their position by allowing tobacco sales to continue. If they truly believed there was a net loss to the community, things would be different.

Im not saying im right, im not saying i have the answers (look, i enjoy smoking - i love it) and i have no doubt that many people do it for the wrong reasons (it used to be seen amoungst younger people as "cool" - a cursory glance over this thread demonstrates that the popular opinion leads more towards smokers being f#$^ts).

But there are some accusations i will not have levelled against me purely because of my decision to smoke.

[xr6ist]

4.9 EF Futura FOR PRIME MINISTER with posts like that mate id vote of you lol

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by ZapXR6T

Being an EX SMOKER, 20 years addicted and now 1 year clean, I feel can post on this subject.
Firstly let’s get some facts straight.

Smokers = Drug addicts. They are addicted to Nicotine and require a regular hit.
Only stupid people smoke (I was once)

Any smoker who enjoys smoking are lying to themselves and know it. If you enjoy something it must be go, so you should also teach your friends, family and children about this "enjoyable" pastime you have and get them hooked.

Only 19% of the population are smokers, yet they affect 100% of the population. Either by making us breathe their filth or by being a health burden on family, work and healthcare.

Once you know how, smoking is not difficult to quit, you just need to WANT to quit. The old saying goes: "NOBODY HAS EVER DIED FROM QUITTING SMOKING, BUT MANY DIE FROM NOT QUITTING".

For all the holier than now smokers, I only have one thing to say:
You are stupid and you stink.

I hope im not a holier than "now" smoker?? Ive tried not to be. Although i'd rather be a holier than "now" smoker than a holier than thou reformed smoker.

Actually if i come across half as hypocritical as this member, please let me know. I'd rather be 6 foot under with a tumor lodged in my throat than sound like this guy.

[GT-E]

How am I a hypocrite ?
I do not smoke anymore, I am also stating facts that smokers choose to ignore.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by xr6ist

4.9 EF Futura FOR PRIME MINISTER with posts like that mate id vote of you lol

Careful what you wish for I make J Howard look like a communist!

[GreenMachine]

Damn, the ex-smokers in this thread are enough to make me take it up again!

ZapXR6T - I dunno what you were smoking for 20 years, but I enjoyed every last cigarette I ever lit.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Apologies for that oversight WorkHorse - citation was been placed into my previous post shortly after i posted it. Yes the information is dated... such is the joy of working with data sourced by various govt agencies ("current" census data is from 2001) particualrly when such data is only collated for the purposes of a specific study.

Well as weve all seen over the past 10 years, there is a significant gap between a government/party's stated position and the prevailing practice. I choose not to observe what one preaches but rather, how one behaves. There's no need to start my own party - the major parties already imply their position by allowing tobacco sales to continue. If they truly believed there was a net loss to the community, things would be different.

Im not saying im right, im not saying i have the answers (look, i enjoy smoking - i love it) and i have no doubt that many people do it for the wrong reasons (it used to be seen amoungst younger people as "cool" - a cursory glance over this thread demonstrates that the popular opinion leads more towards smokers being f#$^ts)..

This one seems to get a good working over also, basically you are saying," if it was so bad the government would ban it".

Well my wifes family are from NE Victoria, her father is a regular Friday nights at the Eveton pub, as are many of the tobacco grower from the area. I have joined them on occasion, top people, always a top night with many laughs.

One of my best mates brothers has worked for Phillip Morris for 35 years, first and only job. I have been to bbq's at his house top bloke and a great family man.

You ban smoking over night and what are all the people involved in the industy supposed to do? And imagine the effects on the economy!

So the government can not ban smoking, it's too ingrained in the economy. It has to be a slow proccess. They are trying to pay tobacco growers to move to other crops. Then all tobacco will have to be imported. Then they can tax the hell out of it without effecting local growers income.

The ad campains and education are slowly working. Less and less people are smoking so the industry will shrink slowly and not effect the ecomomy like a ban would.

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

But there are some accusations i will not have levelled against me purely because of my decision to smoke.

I'm not surprised, imagine if the stats the government uses actually had some truth to them? A walk around a kids wing of a large public hospital in need of cash could be confronting.

Anomosity toward smokers is misplaced, they are addicted to a drug. But I can only see it increasing. Perhaps the government needs to start another ad compain to drum up some sympathy for them.

[Fev]

im sure walking down a main road at peak hour is much worse for you then smoking a ciggarette.. i atleast LIKE smoking.. i know some people ***** and moan that they smoke, they never liked it etc.. why start then.
If you like it keep doing it. If you dont like it, keep away from it but dont expect people in the middle of the street to put it out just because you're standing next to them.

but i dont condone smoking 2 decks a day. that is just plain stupid.. smokin a few a day, 2 decks a week.. atleast it gives your lungs a little time to recover.. and you dont smell like an ashtray even after a shower and it doesnt end up costing you $150 a week on smokes..
Smoking around a baby and while your pregnant is disgusting. some one PLEASE call child services..

im off to mow the lawn.. and i wish i had some smokes right now lol

[Hardtopxb]

Of course everyone who smokes enjoys it.The same reason as a Herion or Speed addict is addicted to Herion or Speed.Smokers are adicted to nicotine, it gives them a high,a release from the craving that is their addiction.More fools them..

[Fev]

and i thought it was illegal to grow tobbaco in australia?.. or is that just for private citizens and not companies?

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Fev

and i thought it was illegal to grow tobbaco in australia?.. or is that just for private citizens and not companies?

You need a producer's licence, granted under the excise act.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/c...90180/s28.html

[Nappa]

i have spent a fair bit of time around smokers and second hand smoke doesn’t bother me too much, what i dont like is the soar throat you get after coming home from a pub.

I know its hard for people to quite and i can respect their want to keep smoking i just cant understand why young people still take it up.

We all knows that its bad for you, it doesn’t offer any benefit to your health.
Yet so many of my friends who i thought were more intelligent have started smoking, I guess its still a case of wanting to look cool.
I know its not any of my business but I tend to berate my friends who start smoking, I know they know better then that.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by ZapXR6T

Being an EX SMOKER, 20 years addicted and now 1 year clean, I feel can post on this subject.
Firstly let’s get some facts straight.

Smokers = Drug addicts. They are addicted to Nicotine and require a regular hit.
Only stupid people smoke (I was once)

Any smoker who enjoys smoking are lying to themselves and know it. If you enjoy something it must be good, so you should also teach your friends, family and children about this "enjoyable" pastime you have and get them hooked. I bet you won't.

Only 19% of the population are smokers, yet they affect 100% of the population. Either by making us breathe their filth or by being a health burden on family, work and healthcare.

Once you know how, smoking is not difficult to quit, you just need to WANT to quit. The old saying goes: "NOBODY HAS EVER DIED FROM QUITTING SMOKING, BUT MANY DIE FROM NOT QUITTING".

For all the holier than now smokers, I only have one thing to say:
You are stupid and you stink.

Yay for you, wanna get off that massive soap box now?

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Nappa

I know its hard for people to quite and i can respect their want to keep smoking i just cant understand why young people still take it up.

Same reason why they get ****ed. For experience and because they are told they shouldn't.

We all knows that its bad for you, it doesn’t offer any benefit to your health.

Well it sort of does offer a benefit. Great stress reliever and stress is bad for your health. :

Yet so many of my friends who i thought were more intelligent have started smoking, I guess its still a case of wanting to look cool.

I consider myself an intelligent person and so do many others. Jeez were not aliens the difference is we smoke. Being a smoker does not mean you are of lesser intelligence to anyone else.

I know its not any of my business but I tend to berate my friends who start smoking, I know they know better then that.

Just because they smoke doesn't mean they don't know. They just choose to do it and it's an informed decision.

I'm sure there are plenty of habits in life that aren't exactly good for us but smoking is one that gets flogged all the time.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by ZapXR6T

Being an EX SMOKER, 20 years addicted and now 1 year clean, I feel can post on this subject.
Firstly let’s get some facts straight.

Smokers = Drug addicts. They are addicted to Nicotine and require a regular hit.
Only stupid people smoke (I was once)

Any smoker who enjoys smoking are lying to themselves and know it. If you enjoy something it must be good, so you should also teach your friends, family and children about this "enjoyable" pastime you have and get them hooked. I bet you won't.

Only 19% of the population are smokers, yet they affect 100% of the population. Either by making us breathe their filth or by being a health burden on family, work and healthcare.

Once you know how, smoking is not difficult to quit, you just need to WANT to quit. The old saying goes: "NOBODY HAS EVER DIED FROM QUITTING SMOKING, BUT MANY DIE FROM NOT QUITTING".

For all the holier than now smokers, I only have one thing to say:
You are stupid and you stink.