Should a hand held mobile phone be confiscated if you use it while driving?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

....I hate talking on the phone and driving is a good excuse not to answer it! :

I'm with you MITCHAY. Socialising is way over rated. :

I voted yes.

[flappist]

Talking on a handheld mobile phone while driving is too dangerous. How do we know this?
THEY told us.
THEY tell us a lot.
THEY told us cigarettes were not harmfull but then THEY changed their minds.
THEY told us that Australia should be white only and women and aboriginals shouldn't vote then THEY changed their minds.
THEY told us that the Japanese were sub-human and going to eat us then THEY changed their minds.

THEY are most of the reason why their are problems in society because THEY manipulate the sheep into believing whatever THEY want them to for whatever agenda THEY are pushing at the time.

What is dangerous about using a mobile phone?

You get distracted by the conversation? Is that more, less or the same amount of distraction you get when talking to a passenger of yelling at your kids for fighting or listening to John Laws supporting some dropkick do gooder pushing some new dogma and trying to control our lives?
Well? More? Less? Or maybe we should ban stereos, passengers and kids? I would support banning John Laws.....

Ah well maybe it is the only having one hand on the steering wheel? How do you change the channel on the radio, adjust the aircon, change gears, use the indicators and wipers with both hands on the wheel?

What about you not watching the road ahead? Well in that in some states if you do not spent 120% of your time watching your speedo you will be bankrupted in a week. There is that pesky rear view mirror and your SATNAV or melways(ubd) if you are old school and a number of other instruments that most people have no idea about. Bloody distracting.

I wonder how many of these "some idiot on a phone nearly hit me" situations were actually just "some idiot who should not have a licence nearly hit me".

Driving is a skill. It requires many different abilities and dumbing it down has led us to the situation we are in now.

Increasing our driving skills is the only way to resolve this all other policies are just smoke and mirrors.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by xcgxl

I am just interested in gauging the level of support for this idea. It may sound a bit Scrubyish but I reckon it would be a damn effective deterrent. It sickens me everytime I drive near a tool who is weaving and darting all over the road because thir phone is more important than the other task at hand. If they are going to have zero points for P platers then won't they lose their license for this? Well it hasn't slowed them down, they are all still on the phone. They just don't care, maybe I should mind my own business. It ain't going to happen because the Government is not going to be interested in such a radical idea or any that might actually work. Cameron Murphy would have something to say about it too.

Why did you start two threads on this subject? Are you that obsessed by this that you NEED to save us?

Here is another on for you. Deaths per accident has been reduced significantly by the introduction of ABS, airbags and crumple zones. Why don't you put up a poll to see if all cars that do not have ABS, crumple zones or airbags be removed from the roads. It will make us all safer won't it?
Of course your XC would be banned. Or does road safety only involve banning things that YOU think are dangerous.....

[BJ]

Originally Posted by flappist

Why did you start two threads on this subject? Are you that obsessed by this that you NEED to save us?

Here is another on for you. Deaths per accident has been reduced significantly by the introduction of ABS, airbags and crumple zones. Why don't you put up a poll to see if all cars that do not have ABS, crumple zones or airbags be removed from the roads. It will make us all safer won't it?
Of course your XC would be banned. Or does road safety only involve banning things that YOU think are dangerous.....

Who shoved a bug up your arrse?? If you think it's OK then you go and do what you do. I think it is a bloody menace on the road. In some European countries they now ban the driver for up to six months. Now if you think all of this other dribble you are going on with is relevant you my friend need to look out side the square you live in.

[snortycorty]

Originally Posted by BJ

Who shoved a bug up your arrse?? If you think it's OK then you go and do what you do. I think it is a bloody menace on the road. I some European countries they now ban the driver for up to six months. Now if you think all of this other dribble you are going on with is relevant you my friend need to look out side the square you live in.

Thank you about time someone said something.

[BAWagonWheels]

Should jack up mobile phones fines to $1000, then people will think twice about using it while driving.

[Hardtopxb]

Iwas going through a roundabout a week ago when this young lady came rapidly through on my left,she went straight past me and another car without looking. She was on her mobile.The bloke next to me was shaking his head at her stupidity.If we both had not braked to avoid her it would have been a very bad accident..Fine them $1000 .Take away mobile.and demerit points..This is very dangerous..

[xrobx]

Should be banned. A distraction. If a call is so important, just pull over.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BJ

Who shoved a bug up your arrse?? If you think it's OK then you go and do what you do. I think it is a bloody menace on the road. In some European countries they now ban the driver for up to six months. Now if you think all of this other dribble you are going on with is relevant you my friend need to look out side the square you live in.

You guys just don't get it do you?

Yeh lets make phones death penalty, twice just to make sure.
Then lets make everything death penalty twice, it is for our own good you know.
Then all of a sudden we are all driving at 30km/h in speed limited shoeboxes with GPS tracking automaticly deducting money from our bank accounts for "failure to indicate within 50m of a corner" or "parking 10mm to far from the curb" and no one remembers how it happened.

The bug up my bum is the holier than thou do gooder attitude of some of our member who are on a crusade to save us.

I think there are many menaces on the road. 4WDs, caravans and ricers are a menace in my opinion. Others think they are ok.
The problem is that other people think that other things are a menace. Like V8s or maybe "large cars" or "cars that can do more than 110km/h or cars that use more than 5l/100km. I am sure there are many zealots out there who can give us tons of evidence to support their positions.

Would you like their crusades to be made law? Or do you think that we should all just get on with each other and maybe improve ALL our driving skills?

[JC]

Originally Posted by rob-xr6

Should be banned. A distraction. If a call is so important, just pull over.

Agreed.

If I come up behind someone, or next to someone, who is on a mobile phone, I give them a good burst with the horn, and give them a quick look. Most hang up straight away.

[JC]

Originally Posted by flappist

You guys just don't get it do you?

Yeh lets make phones death penalty, twice just to make sure.
Then lets make everything death penalty twice, it is for our own good you know.
Then all of a sudden we are all driving at 30km/h in speed limited shoeboxes with GPS tracking automaticly deducting money from our bank accounts for "failure to indicate within 50m of a corner" or "parking 10mm to far from the curb" and no one remembers how it happened.

The bug up my bum is the holier than thou do gooder attitude of some of our member who are on a crusade to save us.

I think there are many menaces on the road. 4WDs, caravans and ricers are a menace in my opinion. Others think they are ok.
The problem is that other people think that other things are a menace. Like V8s or maybe "large cars" or "cars that can do more than 110km/h or cars that use more than 5l/100km. I am sure there are many zealots out there who can give us tons of evidence to support their positions.

Would you like their crusades to be made law? Or do you think that we should all just get on with each other and maybe improve ALL our driving skills?

While I understand where you are coming from, using a mobile phone while driving (without hands free) is actually already against the law. But it's not policed well, and the fine is laughable. All BJ etc are saying here is that the law should be enforced, and with that, the fines should be increased to deter repeat offenders. You can get a hands free kit for not much these days which helps reduce the physical distraction a mobile phone creates (plus a possible impedence in car control in an emergency situation). If people realised how dangerous they are when their attention is on the phone, and not on the road, then perhaps there wouldn't be so many near-hits (which might end up being lots of hits) where mobile phones are involved.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by flappist

Why did you start two threads on this subject? Are you that obsessed by this that you NEED to save us?

Here is another on for you. Deaths per accident has been reduced significantly by the introduction of ABS, airbags and crumple zones. Why don't you put up a poll to see if all cars that do not have ABS, crumple zones or airbags be removed from the roads. It will make us all safer won't it?
Of course your XC would be banned. Or does road safety only involve banning things that YOU think are dangerous.....

It's a different scenario when these safety features are used to save lives, whilst on the other hand, the mobile phones are a reason why people do need these airbags/abs/etc.

Completely different story having an unsafe car, as opposed to an unsafe driver/moving chicane (mobile phone user).

[Yellow_Festiva]

I think anything that deters people from using phones while driving is a good idea. Lets face it, if you punish or fine a driver enough it will have an effect i would think.

I have observed the Double Demerit system prove this.. the wolves of the road turn into law abiding lambs once they risk losing their licence for a 'not so bad' offence.

So bugger the drivers... safety is more important, fine them, remove demerit points and take the phone. Repeat offenders, do the above and take them off the road for 3 months....

As others have said... no call is THAT important...

[all4ford]

I talk on the phone and even sometimes sms while driving and I CAN do this without taking my eyes and concentration off the road. I know where the numbers are on the phone and I know how many times to press each to spell the words im writing. I dont even read it before sending an sms. To many these days, the use of a mobile phone is second nature. To many its not.

Many will claim how dangerous this is, but I'll tell you, I'm a whole lot more distracted when I'm changing the CD, or when I'm yelling at my little nephews in the back to stop kicking my damn seat. lol.

Using a mobile phone is dangerous for some, but for those people, being behind the wheel of a car is dangerous enough, yet they still have their licence.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I think anything that deters people from using phones while driving is a good idea. Lets face it, if you punish or fine a driver enough it will have an effect i would think.

I have observed the Double Demerit system prove this.. the wolves of the road turn into law abiding lambs once they risk losing their licence for a 'not so bad' offence.

So bugger the drivers... safety is more important, fine them, remove demerit points and take the phone. Repeat offenders, do the above and take them off the road for 3 months....

As others have said... no call is THAT important...

Actually, the double demerits doesn't really do a thing. The carnage still happens, and in fact I reckon a lot of it is the extra driving time added by more people holding everyone up by doing UNDER the speed limit for fear of being anbbed travelling too quickly. Have a look at the yearly road toll around Australia, and work out how many die per die on our roads (it's about 6). Then work out the double demerit weekend road toll, and divide by the number of days - it's about 6. No difference really.

Now, back to mobile phones......Hang on, just gotta turn the indicator on for this corner ahead......

[Yellow_Festiva]

Hey JC

Carnage on the roads is an issue that will never be 100% solved EVER in my opinion. Are there any stats available on the fines issued during double demerit over standard days??

And also, just thinking out aloud, would you assume that double demerit = long week ends = holidays = many more cars on the road. So therefore if the road toll is the same compared to other any other week end than statistically there were less deaths as a percentage of the cars on the road??

My comment was based on my own observations of course!

[drcook]

Originally Posted by flappist

Talking on a handheld mobile phone while driving is too dangerous. How do we know this?
THEY told us.
THEY tell us a lot.
THEY told us cigarettes were not harmfull but then THEY changed their minds.
THEY told us that Australia should be white only and women and aboriginals shouldn't vote then THEY changed their minds.
THEY told us that the Japanese were sub-human and going to eat us then THEY changed their minds.

THEY are most of the reason why their are problems in society because THEY manipulate the sheep into believing whatever THEY want them to for whatever agenda THEY are pushing at the time.

What is dangerous about using a mobile phone?

You get distracted by the conversation? Is that more, less or the same amount of distraction you get when talking to a passenger of yelling at your kids for fighting or listening to John Laws supporting some dropkick do gooder pushing some new dogma and trying to control our lives?
Well? More? Less? Or maybe we should ban stereos, passengers and kids? I would support banning John Laws.....

Ah well maybe it is the only having one hand on the steering wheel? How do you change the channel on the radio, adjust the aircon, change gears, use the indicators and wipers with both hands on the wheel?

What about you not watching the road ahead? Well in that in some states if you do not spent 120% of your time watching your speedo you will be bankrupted in a week. There is that pesky rear view mirror and your SATNAV or melways(ubd) if you are old school and a number of other instruments that most people have no idea about. Bloody distracting.

I wonder how many of these "some idiot on a phone nearly hit me" situations were actually just "some idiot who should not have a licence nearly hit me".

Driving is a skill. It requires many different abilities and dumbing it down has led us to the situation we are in now.

Increasing our driving skills is the only way to resolve this all other policies are just smoke and mirrors.

[MITCHAY]

You can simplify that most things are distractions on the road, doof doof, passengers, kids in the back, but actually observe how these people who talk on their phones drive.

I don't know what the actual science is of it but they drive bad when they're on the phone.

Not maintaining speed, wandering into other lanes, brake too early or late, miss the traffic lights.

Sure there are plenty of people who do this without being on the phone, and hell I agree these people shouldn't be driving in the first place also.

The difference is though that a lot of the time these people are otherwise fine drivers when not on the phone.

Not to mention if you have the phone up to your ear you're are not in complete control of your car.

I find when I'm on the phone anywhere I completely zone out from the environment around me while if the person is next to me it is completely different.

It is not hard to pull over or call someone back.

[Jeeepers]

To all that do and don't. Do or don't. It's your choice, your points, your car, your phone, your licence. Just don't run into me while your on the phone. :

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ORSM T

To all that do and don't. Do or don't. It's your choice, your points, your car, your phone, your licence. Just don't run into me while your on the phone. :

Exactly 100% right.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by JC

While I understand where you are coming from, using a mobile phone while driving (without hands free) is actually already against the law. But it's not policed well, and the fine is laughable. All BJ etc are saying here is that the law should be enforced, and with that, the fines should be increased to deter repeat offenders. You can get a hands free kit for not much these days which helps reduce the physical distraction a mobile phone creates (plus a possible impedence in car control in an emergency situation). If people realised how dangerous they are when their attention is on the phone, and not on the road, then perhaps there wouldn't be so many near-hits (which might end up being lots of hits) where mobile phones are involved.

Yes it is against the law although using a CB or talking hands free is not. There are many who cannot talk on a hands free and control a vehicle. How do we stop them from crashing?

I have had mobile phones in cars since 1987, way before cellphones. I currently have TWO in car kits in my F6, a fixed one for my LG and a bluetooth for all the other phones or when I rent. My mobile bill is about $400-500/month and almost all of it is done in the car.
If I am in a situation that requires extra concentration e.g. peak hour or whatever I don't answer the phone or if it auto answers I just say, "too busy to talk, ring back". If I am in a conversation and a situation arises that requires all my concentration I say "hang on, just trying not to crash, back in a second".
On the other hand if for what ever reason the phone is not in the kit and it rings and I believe that it is safe due to location and conditions and the call is important then I have been known to answer it.

It is called assessment and judgement, skills that should be necessary before being allowed to drive. A bit like just because the sign says 100km/h you might go a bit slower in heavy fog or rain.

Stupid people will do stupid things regardless of the penalties. People are constatly getting caught hyper drunk blasting along at warp 9 in the suburbs.
Another idiot recently got caught smulling drugs in Singo where the ACTUALLY DO kill you for it. How much harsher penalty do they need?

[SpoolMan]

I can eat a Big Mac while driving they dare not try and take that off me... : :
I found it much easier to have a phone conversation than eating a burger but I wont get a fine for the burger.
Is it true in NSW you can use your phone while driving?
I got a $145 fine for talking on my mobile and they took 3 points too, pulled over by water police, the fine was sent in the mail.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Certainly see where flappist's inherent objection comes from. And it's a good point.

Or do you think that we should all just get on with each other and maybe improve ALL our driving skills?

I think, considering the general attitude of people in the community, this is a bit of a pipe dream. Yes... any human on the happy side of the missing link should be able to simulataneously operate a vehicle whilst maintaining a coversation into a plastic device.

But people cant. And we've all seen them when they try.

You're right - the skill of driving has been dumbed down. It has to be, because people - generally - are dumb. Spending a lot of time in "our" circles may give a false impression of "general" driving abilities... as we're enthusiasts here, we take our driving ability seriously. Unfortunately such a group of people is not representative of the wider community.

Doesnt make it right. But... it is how it is...

And how many people.. considering the lives most live... are going to allocate time and money into bettering their driving skills?? Nah, they'd rather be let loose and then pay the fine when they f--k up. It's like a credit card for intelligence... just build it up when you need to....

[Grunter]

Bah, lost the response I typed.

Sufficed to say laws are applied to hopefully make people think twice before performing an action.

Irrespective of the law, there's not much chance that I'd do 100kph through a school zone, however there would be a perentage that probably would if there were no consequences. Just as there are also those who'd do now laws or not.

Laws are there to help protect the majority from the majority. The minority will not give a **** and will still put themselves and others in harms way.

Flappist, when you do your next driving course, do it entirely one handed and tell me if you have more or less control of your car. Then tell me if you think a inexperienced or inattentive driver would be more or less likely to be able to respond to an emergency situation whilst holding a phone (assuming the phone is being held longer than it takes to press an indicator, aircon button, or volume on the stereo).

[uranium_death]

Confiscating the phone will do nothing.

They will just get a new handset as many people will not be bothered with having to fork out a little extra. People aren't patient, nor will some accept responsibility for their own stupidity.

I think it is far better to smack a $1000 dollar fine to be paid in increments (at the offender's discretion) and 3 demerit points for a first offence, with a second offence resulting in a lost license for 3 months. A 3rd offence results in a 12 month loss of license.

Stop all this pussy-footing.

It's time to tell all those morons out there that there is NO excuse for talking on the phone while driving. If you offend, take the consequences and grow up!

It's harsh, but if Vicroads and the Police are too soft, people will continue to laugh at the current penalties.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Is it true in NSW you can use your phone while driving?

Nope, not at all.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Grunter

Bah, lost the response I typed.

Sufficed to say laws are applied to hopefully make people think twice before performing an action.

Irrespective of the law, there's not much chance that I'd do 100kph through a school zone, however there would be a perentage that probably would if there were no consequences. Just as there are also those who'd do now laws or not.

Laws are there to help protect the majority from the majority. The minority will not give a **** and will still put themselves and others in harms way.

Flappist, when you do your next driving course, do it entirely one handed and tell me if you have more or less control of your car. Then tell me if you think a inexperienced or inattentive driver would be more or less likely to be able to respond to an emergency situation whilst holding a phone (assuming the phone is being held longer than it takes to press an indicator, aircon button, or volume on the stereo).

Ok, and you do the same without taking either hand off the wheel at any time.
Oh and are you say that one armed people should not be allowed to drive? Thats a bit prejudiced of you......

You are making my point for me. We are not all equal. Some can drive and operate a phone safely, others cannot. Some can't drive safely under any circumstances whatsoever.

WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME.

The idea of making fascist laws to penalise everyone because a few are incompetent is the bureaucratic dogma that we far to often accept.

There are laws detailing "driving without due care" and even "culpable and dangerous driving" for people who are driving unsafely. Why do we not use those. Because it is easier to just make us all criminals. Like speed limits. The limit is 100km/h on the feeders in Brisbane and at 5pm only an insane person would go faster than that, it is TOO dangerous. On the other hand it is also 100km/h on the steppes where you can see to the horizon and there are bugger all other cars. Exceeding by 16km/h is the same penalty.

SITUATIONS ARE NOT ALL THE SAME.

My point is simple, people are people and the more YOU control the more WE rebel. This is human nature and despite the best laid plans of the social engineers we are still human.
There was a time when responsibility was something that WE strived to attain and were proud of, now it is something that OTHERS take for us.

I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT I DO. Not YOU, not ANYONE ELSE.

If you are not responsible for what you do then you should not be anywhere near the controls of a car.

Do you disagree with that?

This is starting to get repetitive. By now you should understand my position. If you do not then there is no point continuing.
All this is hyperbole anyway. The laws are made by those who have their own agenda not our interests at heart.

I will believe the government wants to protect us the day that cigarettes are banned outright and I suspect I will be waiting a long time....

[snortycorty]

Originally Posted by flappist

This is starting to get repetitive. By now you should understand my position. If you do not then there is no point continuing.
All this is hyperbole anyway. The laws are made by those who have their own agenda not our interests at heart.

Tell me about it, your point has come across very clearly EVERY time you have posted.
I think we get it ok (most of us got it the first time, some caught on abit later )

(please note I am not saying this in a nasty way) :

[gozza]

In saying that flappist people should be able to make there own judgement on wether to smoke or not...Yes its addictive... but people know that before they smoke these days

i agree with what your saying in the most part but that seems a little contradictive

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

I got a $145 fine for talking on my mobile and they took 3 points too, pulled over by water police, the fine was sent in the mail.

What were you doing driving in the ocean Mark? Trying to wash off said Big Mac?