Are ICE uncool, EV cool with Millennials and Gen-Z ????

[Warrenk]

I own two V8's, a turbo Falcon, a diesel and a XP Falcon, so I wouldn't say I would be on any greenie's christmas card list, but a I would like a an EV. Probably a 1967 era F100 converted to electric. A good project that I would like to do. Just have to wait for a few more Teslas to become write offs.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Warrenk

I own two V8's, a turbo Falcon, a diesel and a XP Falcon, so I wouldn't say I would be on any greenie's christmas card list, but a I would like a an EV. Probably a 1967 era F100 converted to electric. A good project that I would like to do. Just have to wait for a few more Teslas to become write offs.

Thought about this 30 something years ago around the time of bio fueled VW Golfs.
Yeah with seven diesel trucks and one petrol van wouldn't mind atleast having a go at an EV conversion using a cab chassis parts truck sitting out back.
Reckon at 4.5T GVM it will give plenty of battery capacity within the chassis rails.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by jpd80

When you mentioned V8, did they make a face like grandpa farted again?

Nope. I kept my mouth shut and just listened to the conversation.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

I’m in the country and every young male drives a modded 79 series. There’s simply no inferstructure to charge EV’s here.

Yeah, I think that is understandable (and sensible) given the operational needs and what plant is available. Just in my street alone, there are three young tradies and they all have heavily modified Landcruisers + camping trailers that looks like they are ready to tackle Simpson's Desert.

I shake my head in wonder at how they can afford to drop $100K on such kit at such a young age. I certainly never could afford to do so when I was on the tools.

Still ... in the the group I was listening to, one wanted a Tesla because it was fast, another wanted a Tesla because it was cool, and the third wanted to save the planet.

Regardless of one's personal views about Tesla and EV, there are some basic concepts in advertising including "brand awareness". It took decades for Hyundai to become established in the market, and it has only been in the last 20 years that their reputation for reasonable quality has been established.

In the automotive land time, Tesla has come out of thin air in the last few years and pushed some well established brand names to one side in some people's thinking. That is impressive.

All in all, it was instructive to just sit and listen to the conversation. Certainly the positive discussions around EV took me by surprise.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by whynot

Yeah, I think that is understandable (and sensible) given the operational needs and what plant is available. Just in my street alone, there are three young tradies and they all have heavily modified Landcruisers + camping trailers that looks like they are ready to tackle Simpson's Desert.

I shake my head in wonder at how they can afford to drop $100K on such kit at such a young age. I certainly never could afford to do so when I was on the tools.

Still ... in the the group I was listening to, one wanted a Tesla because it was fast, another wanted a Tesla because it was cool, and the third wanted to save the planet.

Regardless of one's personal views about Tesla and EV, there are some basic concepts in advertising including "brand awareness". It took decades for Hyundai to become established in the market, and it has only been in the last 20 years that their reputation for reasonable quality has been established.

In the automotive land time, Tesla has come out of thin air in the last few years and pushed some well established brand names to one side in some people's thinking. That is impressive.

All in all, it was instructive to just sit and listen to the conversation. Certainly the positive discussions around EV took me by surprise.

With Hyundai, their turning point was the i30 in the mid 00s - that was when their cars took a big turn around from the 1990s/early 00s stuff.

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

.......... The most amazing gadget I found was that it could see the bins put out on the nature strips at night, and show it to you on the screen.

You must be kidding . I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this apparent Tesla genius tech.

Think about it and where we are apparently heading. So a Tesla genius thought never mind that you have two freaking eyes that should be looking at the road ahead, you can now look down and across to check for bins on the verge.

Surely this must be one of those video games that Tesla incorporated that they now have to erase and you presumably got points for every bin you demolished or is the truth out that a Tesla is actually a garbage truck in disguise.

The mind boggles. Maybe they can erase this crap during the current 500,000 Model 3 recall.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by xxx000

To those that say they'd never own a Tesla...really?
Why would you even say that? It seems to reek of insecurity rather than being based on fact.

The irony is the thread title is about EV's and Millennials/Gen Z and you're complaining about the responses from multiple Millennials in this thread who have responded

I don't think we have any Gen Z here on AFF but we're starting to get them in our workplaces now, they're just coming out of university into the workplaces, from my experiences with them they're big on environmentalism and make purchasing decisions based around ethical business rather than just value for money, that could be a Melbourne thing though.

What will happen if this happens in greater numbers businesses will start catering to it because thats what customers want, at the moment Boomers are in a position where they've got a lot of disposable income and they're a huge percentage of the market share for a business same with older Gen X, so you can ignore the tail end of Gen X, Millennials and Gen Z at this point in time, but it'll shift in 20 years.

Also car manufacturers don't like change, change is expensive, so if it wasn't for governments trying to force their hands all the time and as a result them needing to innovate, we'd still be driving stuff with Ford 385 series V8 and C4s

I wonder if there would be such a drive for EVs if it weren't for government intervention in large markets?

[ratter]

Bring ‘‘em on I say, the more choices the better.
A road legal standard car that is capable of low 9’s is quite interesting, but also the more people that get them, means more fuel for longer for the rest of us.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

You must be kidding . I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this apparent Tesla genius tech.

Think about it and where we are apparently heading. So a Tesla genius thought never mind that you have two freaking eyes that should be looking at the road ahead, you can now look down and across to check for bins on the verge.

Surely this must be one of those video games that Tesla incorporated that they now have to erase and you presumably got points for every bin you demolished or is the truth out that a Tesla is actually a garbage truck in disguise.

The mind boggles. Maybe they can erase this crap during the current 500,000 Model 3 recall.

I think you’ve missed the point on the car spotting wheelie bins. It forms part of the driverless tech where the car picks up everything around so it can drive for you (for the most part). It isn’t there for us to just look and rely on a screen.

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

I think you’ve missed the point on the car spotting wheelie bins. It forms part of the driverless tech where the car picks up everything around so it can drive for you (for the most part). It isn’t there for us to just look and rely on a screen.

And you have also missed my point.

This type of tech would be more pertinent if it picked up thermal objects so a little kid or grannie standing on the curb at night etc was highlighted. Although my bin with a host of crayfish heads could emit some serious heat

Pointing out how great this tech is as it shows freaking wheelie bins whether by default or not is useless info of no point unless you want to see how many bins you can snot. Also without dedicated enclosed lanes driverless use in OZ will also never happen and in fact currently it should not be allowed in EV's sold in Oz.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

And you have also missed my point.

This type of tech would be more pertinent if it picked up thermal objects so a little kid or grannie standing on the curb at night etc was highlighted. Although my bin with a host of crayfish heads could emit some serious heat

Pointing out how great this tech is as it shows freaking wheelie bins whether by default or not is useless info of no point unless you want to see how many bins you can snot. Also without dedicated enclosed lanes driverless use in OZ will also never happen and in fact currently it should not be allowed in EV's sold in Oz.

LOL I think you missed the point. Yeh I used the bins as an example, but its the "tech" (or simply camera and software) behind it thats "cool". Night time, going at speed, and still being able to pick up a dark green object on the side of the road was pretty "cool". Soon it will be be developed to pick up drunkards at 4am in the morning or maybe even hopping mammals out in the country roads before it lands on your hood.

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

...............yeh I used the bins as an example, but its the "tech" (or simply camera and software) behind it thats "cool". Night time, going at speed, and still being able to pick up a dark green object on the side of the road was pretty "cool".

LOL. Mate my headlights picks up that sort of s**t and my eyes are looking where they should be.

Soon it will be be developed to pick up drunkards at 4am in the morning or maybe even hopping mammals out in the country roads before it lands on your hood.

Ummm Deja Vu and maybe a grannie or two.

[Franco Cozzo]

You know how cars have 'lane guidance' these days how it will see the lines and if you go over it will nudge the car back into the lane, I wonder if you could take your hands off the wheel and just let the car bounce itself between both sides of the lane you're in to create some ghetto version of 'self driving'.

Worth a test I reckon

I also want to test out how resilient radar cruise control is to chaff, dump a ute load of cut up aluminium foil strips out the back of a ute in front and see if it still functions.

[thefargo]

as I mentioned in an earlier post, I drove one on a long drive. that drive was in rural SA, and the car had no chance of hands free, it wasn't able to detect the sides of the road, I don't think there were lines on the far left, just the dashes down the middle! I was going to give it a go, but the guy who had hired it for the weekend said he had already tried, without success. I still think you should jump at the opportunity to drive one, if an opportunity presents, whilst I won't be getting one, I am pleased to have tried it. As for a generation thing, I think it is relevant, as a younger driver than myself had a drive of my xb coupe and asked me, in a panic, do the brakes work?, whereas my generation seem to understand that cars in the 70's did stop ... eventually. I guess if you grow up with, or start your driving experience with TESLA type vehicles that will be your norm.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

And you have also missed my point.

This type of tech would be more pertinent if it picked up thermal objects so a little kid or grannie standing on the curb at night etc was highlighted. Although my bin with a host of crayfish heads could emit some serious heat

Pointing out how great this tech is as it shows freaking wheelie bins whether by default or not is useless info of no point unless you want to see how many bins you can snot. Also without dedicated enclosed lanes driverless use in OZ will also never happen and in fact currently it should not be allowed in EV's sold in Oz.

Wheelie bins was just an example..

Cars can pick up pedestrians too… look it up so your point is mute.

Cars are already doing driverless tech. Not just EVs. All the safety systems cars coming with now form part of that tech.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You know how cars have 'lane guidance' these days how it will see the lines and if you go over it will nudge the car back into the lane, I wonder if you could take your hands off the wheel and just let the car bounce itself between both sides of the lane you're in to create some ghetto version of 'self driving'.

Worth a test I reckon

I also want to test out how resilient radar cruise control is to chaff, dump a ute load of cut up aluminium foil strips out the back of a ute in front and see if it still functions.

Nope, the test doesn’t work, every version of lane keep I’ve used, needs your hands on the wheel and will kill it if you don’t put them back on.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Nope, the test doesn’t work, every version of lane keep I’ve used, needs your hands on the wheel and will kill it if you don’t put them back on.

So sister in laws brother got done driving his parents Tesla whilst being on the phone.

He would leave Canberra to head to Sydney. Turn on cruise and steering. Hook his wallet over the wheel so it felt weight. Then would kick back and relax till the m5. He was done by an overhead camera. I wish it was a cop who saw it.

My sister in law who is a paramedic is furious about it. Her brother and parents find it a funny story to tell

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

Wheelie bins was just an example..

Cars can pick up pedestrians too… look it up so your point is mute.

Cars are already doing driverless tech. Not just EVs. All the safety systems cars coming with now form part of that tech.

All this tech is great but it’s far from perfect. It’ll take another 10-20 years to perfect it.
At the moment we have lane keep systems that aren’t consistent. Sometimes they work and sometimes they just don’t react at all.
Autonomous braking is another system causing issues. Quite a people will be cruising down highway and the car will suddenly jam the brakes on big time.
These systems will be refined and improved but some manufacturers have put them in too early without doing the required development work.

It was the same with abs and stability control. Early systems were quite crude but now work smoothly in the background.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

LOL I think you missed the point. Yeh I used the bins as an example, but its the "tech" (or simply camera and software) behind it thats "cool". Night time, going at speed, and still being able to pick up a dark green object on the side of the road was pretty "cool". Soon it will be be developed to pick up drunkards at 4am in the morning or maybe even hopping mammals out in the country roads before it lands on your hood.

The roo is one thing autonomous will never be able to handle. You can’t predict the unpredictable. They stupid things will do the opposite of what you expect. I’ve heard tech experts basically admit it’s impossible to deal with.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You know how cars have 'lane guidance' these days how it will see the lines and if you go over it will nudge the car back into the lane, I wonder if you could take your hands off the wheel and just let the car bounce itself between both sides of the lane you're in to create some ghetto version of 'self driving'.

Worth a test I reckon

I also want to test out how resilient radar cruise control is to chaff, dump a ute load of cut up aluminium foil strips out the back of a ute in front and see if it still functions.

Lane keeping “tech” is complete garbage. Half the road tests of new cars i read mention how it played up and had to be switched off. They rely on perfect line markings. On australian roads lol.

[T3rminator]

The ICE V8 feels like it has lost 30kw in this heat!!

Do EVs suffer heat soak?...thinking battery performance. If not, can we add that to the "cool" list.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

The ICE V8 feels like it has lost 30kw in this heat!!

Do EVs suffer heat soak?...thinking battery performance. If not, can we add that to the "cool" list.

Yes - you get charge and performance problems with batteries if they go outside certain temperature ranges both too cold or too warm, it won't manifest like heat soak on ICE cars but it effects charging and the battery management system is probably going to limit how much juice the motor can have, I've had some experience with an EV LCV and it had a cooling system for the battery bank to keep it at optimal temperature.

It probably won't manifest like it does with heat soak in ICE cars, you want a really good example of heat soak in an ICE car, drive a turbo euro Ford with the factory intercooler like a Fiesta ST, it feels like it loses half its power at ambient temperatures above 30 degrees C and the A/C does nothing

Interesting test for an EV would be do back to back runs on the strip and see if performance drops off.

[Top_Ghia]

Heat is a huge issue for EV’s. That’s why they run coolant.
You can also get thermal runaway in the batteries which is really bad news and happens most when run flat.
I suspect they would have an artificial flat battery program to prevent them truly going flat, a bit like a Territory diesel which has an artificial run dry program that simulates running out of fuel.

[Ben73]

Out of all my friends and people I know who are interested in cars I don’t know a single person who has or is actively working towards buying a Tesla. Sure I know people who like the performance Tesla models, but they like them in the same way someone might like a supercar or hypercar.
This forum is obsessed with Tesla. I don’t hear many people talking about them in real life. My brother is 10 years younger than me and loves cars. He doesn’t mind Tesla but he doesn’t want one. I will have to ask him what people he knows around his age think of Tesla. He is 20

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Yes - you get charge and performance problems with batteries if they go outside certain temperature ranges both too cold or too warm, it won't manifest like heat soak on ICE cars but it effects charging and the battery management system is probably going to limit how much juice the motor can have, I've had some experience with an EV LCV and it had a cooling system for the battery bank to keep it at optimal temperature.

It probably won't manifest like it does with heat soak in ICE cars, you want a really good example of heat soak in an ICE car, drive a turbo euro Ford with the factory intercooler like a Fiesta ST, it feels like it loses half its power at ambient temperatures above 30 degrees C and the A/C does nothing

Interesting test for an EV would be do back to back runs on the strip and see if performance drops off.

I noticed real bad heat soak in my XR5 even with upgraded cooler, but with the stock one its terrible. They were just never designed for hot climate. Also agree re A/C they were junk . Focus ST wasnt bad though.

I also see it a bit with my ute with the A/C on and its over 30 also (factory intercooler)

[kevino]

Heat soak.
Can someone explain what this means???????

I do notice my turbo 3 Skoda uses more fuel on plus 30 degree days say 6 ltr per 100kms increases to 7 ltrs per 100 kms on urban work, air con still ok, power well its limited in that respect and the manual gearbox probably without me noticing just gets worked a little harder.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by kevino

Heat soak.
Can someone explain what this means???????

I do notice my turbo 3 Skoda uses more fuel on plus 30 degree days say 6 ltr per 100kms increases to 7 ltrs per 100 kms on urban work, air con still ok, power well its limited in that respect and the manual gearbox probably without me noticing just gets worked a little harder.

Heat is absorbed into fluids, metals etc.

Essentially the engine gets to a point where it cannot rid itself of excess heat and the entire engine is 'soaked' in heat if that makes sense.
And in a little car like the Skoda it would be exacerbated because its small. And id imagine the engine bay is fairly packed in tight.

[T3rminator]

Another "cool" to add to the list....the ability to accelerate the way it does without losing the *** end. They don't look like they are fitted with any super special tyres. Is there some kind of software controlling it?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Another "cool" to add to the list....the ability to accelerate the way it does without losing the *** end. They don't look like they are fitted with any super special tyres. Is there some kind of software controlling it?

They are a single speed gearbox, so even though the motor itself has a flat torque curve, it actually has less torque (AFAIK) than a sporty petrol-powered car *at the wheels* because there is no short first gear.

edit: one of the Koenigsegg's works on the same principle, with a single speed gearbox, but uses clutch slip IIRC to gradually ramp up the degree of drivetrain engagement as speed rises.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

From all the young ones I know im actually shocked at how many are not interested in electric cars and teslas specifically as there for " old rich guys " as they say. They all want 4wd's, jdm stuff or au falcon skid pigs.

The other area to watch is the younger youtube car channels. There is still a lot of love for the humble ice vehicle and the ones I see with teslas treat them as a bit of a sideshow freak, just something they take their mates in for a few pulls then they go in the corner and you never see them again. I guess the problem with teslas and making money from " youtube content " is you cant really modify them like they can with a traditional ice vehicle.

I honestly don't think its all doom and gloom from the younger ones, go to a car show and there is still heaps of young people enjoying some good old fashioned ice propelled transportation.

This is Gen Z in our country area, in a nutshell. All about 4wd rigs, there's been flavours of Falcon and Commodore and V8s. The mates are hanging to have a drive of the manual Sprint. The tradey boss is early Gen Y and drives a massive V8 Ram now he has family responsibilites! Our Gen Y fam in WA lean to the dark side, and lean hard - there's a VE GTS, 1000hp VF SS ute, all sorts of motorcycles and 4 wheelies, and even a custom dirt racer chassis for doing the races down the dry river beds...

[winkle]

My 24 year old son and all his mates have no interest in EVs or hybrids and the like. My son has an FG XR8 ute with the loud exhaust, big wheels etc. His mates have similar cars/utes. A lot of them are also into Harleys after graduating from dirt bikes. Their interest seems to depend on their upbringing a bit, as well as their line of work- my son is a panel beater, and has a side business detailing cars on the weekends.