NSW Cyclists Fined $1.33m in 2016.

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by prydey

I think you'll find car drivers hate sharing the road with anyone. They whinge about pedestrians, cyclists, 4x4, SUV's, trucks, busses etc etc. Roads were apparently made for these precious few morons who clearly didn't get enough hugs when they were little.

Thankfully its a minority.

Very true..I guess many drivers have the "mob rule" mentality...we are the majority so all others must fit in with our likes,but personally I have two issues with cyclists ( and really road users in general). If you are a road user then follow the rules,they are there so we all know what's going on, and can for see what others will be doing,theoretically no surprises. Now,if you are a cyclist your not a road user until you see a red traffic light and then suddenly become a pedestrian and ride on the footpaths or ride up between two stationary lanes of traffic so you can get up the front and then sit in the pedestrian crossing areas...or better still ignore the red light coz stopping is gonna mess with your cardio workout or your timed ride..it's likely gonna mess up a whole lot more than that of you get hit...and secondly don't strut around in the local coffee shops with yer tackle wrapped in Lycra,it really ain't a good look and turns me right off my brekkie!!

There's bad attitudes a plenty on the roads,certainly the average law abiding cyclist cops more than their fair share of abuse,but there's idiots everywhere,drivers,cyclists,pedestrians,no mode of transport is immune from idiot users. And dont start me about the floggers on Harleys who deem it cool to run straight thru pipes and make them sound like a fart in a wind tunnel while riding around towns,try that trick with a classic car and see how far you get with out police attention yet they seem to keep on going ..rant over

[ronwest]

I think that we're in a transition stage where neither side of the equation is adequately catered for.

There are roads that cyclists should have the common sense to not be on and conversely there are areas that motorists should have the common sense to share (or avoid if cyclists bother them).

In truth, I think that our roads don't cater well for the volume of traffic so any further impediment can grind people's gears.

What will happen is that common sense and courtesy will not prevail so we'll be legislated into submission (both cyclists and motorists).

Then of course motorists and cyclists will both whinge about the "nanny state"

[lownloud]

Two guys were in a pub having a beer after work.
They were a couple of guys having a chat at the bar about all the normal stuff.
They left the pub. One got in a car the other got on a bike.
Now they hate each other.

Sounds dumb doesn't it.

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by lownloud

Two guys were in a pub having a beer after work.
They were a couple of guys having a chat at the bar about all the normal stuff.
They left the pub. One got in a car the other got on a bike.
Now they hate each other.

Sounds dumb doesn't it.

Sure does, just like the two blokes that found out one has a mate named Abraham, and the other named Muhammad, now they hate each other.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by DBourne

LOL Nothing but chaos? Well if you have trouble navigating past a group of 10 cyclists, who are side by side taking up a lane (as you're legally allowed to btw) so would be 5 cyclists long, so say around the length of a small truck, then Jesus please hand in your licence.

Here is how it works in Sydney' peak hour.

Driving in left lane approach cyclist doing 20km/h, he is holding up one of 2 lanes and causing chaos behind him, people start changing lanes to go around the cyclist and now the right lane is slowing down to let people in.

Drivers finally get around said cyclist, but then com up to a red light... now the cyclist lane splits and is at the front of the pack of cars that just overtook him.......Lights go green and it start again as once again drivers overtake the same cyclist again.

So one bike has a tendancy to cause a traffic jam and traffic chaos....as you generally need to change lanes and overtake the same bike or worse group of bikes after every set of lights...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Here is how it works in Sydney' peak hour.

Driving in left lane approach cyclist doing 20km/h, he is holding up one of 2 lanes and causing chaos behind him, people start changing lanes to go around the cyclist and now the right lane is slowing down to let people in.

Drivers finally get around said cyclist, but then com up to a red light... now the cyclist lane splits and is at the front of the pack of cars that just overtook him.......Lights go green and it start again as once again drivers overtake the same cyclist again.

So one bike has a tendancy to cause a traffic jam and traffic chaos....as you generally need to change lanes and overtake the same bike or worse group of bikes after every set of lights...

And in real terms, how much time would it add to your commute?
30sec? 1min? 5min?? If that is your idea of chaos, don't move to Syria any time soon.
Also the fact that the bike could catch back up to the cars indicates traffic is pretty congested and slow moving anyway.
I don't ride up the left of cars that are stopped unless there is a bike lane because I know how many motorists think toward cyclists and try not to upset the precious ones more than i have to.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prydey

30sec? 1min? 5min?? If that is your idea of chaos, don't move to Syria any time soon.

You shuldnt only consider the impact of the overtaking maneuvre. You need to consider the cumulative effect on all the traffic behind the cyclist.

Also the fact that the bike could catch back up to the cars indicates traffic is pretty congested and slow moving anyway.

Flimsy reasoning for slowing it even more.

The reality is that there is no good reason to mix vehicles with large speed differentials. They need to be segregated. They tried this in Sydney with dedicated cycle lanes... do you think the precious cyclists use them?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by prydey

And in real terms, how much time would it add to your commute?
30sec? 1min? 5min?? If that is your idea of chaos, don't move to Syria any time soon.
Also the fact that the bike could catch back up to the cars indicates traffic is pretty congested and slow moving anyway.
I don't ride up the left of cars that are stopped unless there is a bike lane because I know how many motorists think toward cyclists and try not to upset the precious ones more than i have to.

It causes major delays and traffic jams, a small group of cyclists can cause hours of delays, a major arterial road of two lanes which in most cases is already too small is now cut in half, so instead of 100,000cars travelling down two lanes, they now have to merge and travel down one lane.

The effects are devastating to traffic flow and have a similar affect to a traffic accident it peak hour, even just a few cars slowing down can cause major delays.

Obviously you have no idea what Sydney peak hour traffic is like, where a 15km trip can easily take well over an hour.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by prydey

And in real terms, how much time would it add to your commute?
30sec? 1min? 5min?? If that is your idea of chaos, don't move to Syria any time soon.
Also the fact that the bike could catch back up to the cars indicates traffic is pretty congested and slow moving anyway.
I don't ride up the left of cars that are stopped unless there is a bike lane because I know how many motorists think toward cyclists and try not to upset the precious ones more than i have to.

30 seconds LOL...yeah OK, no point discussing if that's what you think

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by b0son

You shuldnt only consider the impact of the overtaking maneuvre. You need to consider the cumulative effect on all the traffic behind the cyclist.

Exactly right, it's not just one car overtaking a cyclist, it slows a whole left lane down to the speed of the cyclist, while people behind them pile up waiting for a gap to overtake, getting frustrated, with a traffic line that could go on for many KM's developing behind the cyclists in no time, causing a major bottle neck in traffic flow that is already strained well beyond capacity most of the time.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Stefan

30 seconds LOL...yeah OK, no point discussing if that's what you think

Well instead of just blaming Sydney traffic congestion on cyclists, give me a real time example of when a Cyclist added substantial time to your commute.

I have ridden in peak hour. I pass the cars, not the other way around.

As for cyclists causing hours of delay, please, give me a break.

[commodorenutt]

I remember when some of the "bike-tivist" minority were sooking about the "massive increase in fines" and how unfair they were. Bleating about it in every form of media they could.

Previous fine for no helmet: $71 It went up to $319 on 1/3/16.

Cyclists demand to share the road.

Get caught on a motorbike with helmet - that's $325

Equivalent safety item in a car - the seatbelt, is $325 if you're not wearing it.

Want equal rights, pay equal fines....


Anyone riding without a helmet deserves to be caught, and these figures simply prove that the cops are targeting a black & white offence - no helmet is so easy to prove, and unlikely to be challenged for ambiguous reasons like a "riding dangerously" or "riding too close" fine could be. You can't claim ignorance either, as it's common knowledge.

I have several competitive cyclists in my group of friends & colleagues. They agree with the new fines - none have ever been caught with no helmet either. But the telling tale - they won't ride in Sydney peak hour because it's too dangerous. They prefer the M7 track or evening rides after the major traffic has decreased in volume.

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Here is how it works in Sydney' peak hour.

Driving in left lane approach cyclist doing 20km/h, he is holding up one of 2 lanes and causing chaos behind him, people start changing lanes to go around the cyclist and now the right lane is slowing down to let people in.

Drivers finally get around said cyclist, but then com up to a red light... now the cyclist lane splits and is at the front of the pack of cars that just overtook him.......Lights go green and it start again as once again drivers overtake the same cyclist again.

So one bike has a tendancy to cause a traffic jam and traffic chaos....as you generally need to change lanes and overtake the same bike or worse group of bikes after every set of lights...

Same problem happens on higher speed roads with the zealots on underpowered step-thru scooters. No need to undergo safe riding course on the small examples - which are fine for around town. But get them out on an 80km/h arterial road like Windsor Rd, Lane Cove Rd, or the GWH where you have section where 2 or 3 lanes are doing 70-80km/h, flowing nicely, and the same problem occurs.

Approach a red light - they split the lanes up to the front, because they can, and they think they're really cool wannabe bikers. Light goes green, and they can't accelerate as fast as the cars - causing chaos as cars launch, and then brake - creating the earthworm effect. And finally they get up to the 50km or so top speed they all seem to have, and everyone has to move around them in the 80 zone. Finally get clear of them and resume the smooth flow, and these kamikazes repeat it all again at the next red light.

[DBourne]

Few things:

1) I agree that Sydney Peak hour you can get stuck doing 15km in an hour.. which is 15km/h.. I can easily average 27+kph so theoretically it is faster for me to ride than drive.

2) I also agree that people should be thoughtful of where they ride. If I commute, I'm riding from Greystanes to Olympic Park. No way in the world would I ride on Victoria Road. Even though there is a bus lane (which before you get all flustered over and want to whinge about me using; I am perfectly allowed to do so) I just wouldn't risk it.

It's dodgy enough in a car..

But in saying that, I've ridden Old Windsor Road out to Richmond many times, that's an 80kph road and I've never had an issue. Just takes a few moments of attention from a driver passing and life is merry.

For what it's worth, I also keep my place in traffic, I don't filter to the front. I figure there is no point in me going to the front, to just be over taken off the lights again, that's just silly.

edit all this talk about how bad traffic is, I reckon more people should give riding a bike a go. Would be interesting to see how much the traffic would reduce, people would realise it's actually enjoyable and would be great to see people's tolerances increase (yeah ok, I'll cure cancer while I'm at it too).

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by dunga

They should start fining bike rider for not using bike lanes when they are provided they winged like hell not enough bike lanes but don't use them.

Can't use them because there is usually a Harley or Sports bike in it instead.

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

Its all well and good handing out fines on the roads but how about the cycleways?


I had the mis-fortune of helping to construct and maintain the South Perth foreshore cycleway, a beaut piece of purpose built, silky smooth and ultimately high speed ribbon of tarmac.

We received worse treatment by the lycra set than any of them have ever received on the roads. The chubby middle aged men calling names at us, the workers, is water of a ducks back, but to see pedestrians abused, small children on trainer wheels being called names that rhyme with can't, dudes steaming full pelt through fun runs, high speeds, overtaking on bends and no regards for common sense or decency were like scenes from mad max... pure anarchy... they then carry the same attitude to the roads and then wonder why they get fined, abused or in the end run over.

So how about it, manners on the cycleways then you'll get some manners on the road?

As a mountain biker I have been abused by road bike riders on cycleways a few times. Usually for forcing these poor souls to slow down for a few seconds because my bike can't go as fast as theirs.
They need to just learn some patients and slow down. It's not the end of the world that they have to add 5 seconds to their strava time.

Talking about slowing down I had to slow my car quite a lot recently because some cyclists decided to ride about 8 abreast on a wide industrial road.
To be honest most were on the left and riding considerately, but there were a few morons riding towards the centre median strip.
They ride on these wide roads because traffic is light and can pass them easily, then the few morons just have to deliberately try to cause problems.
I don't mind slowing and going around them on normal roads, but when they are on a road that's 20m+ wide, it's just deliberate inconsiderate riding.

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Ben73

As a mountain biker I have been abused by road bike riders on cycleways a few times. Usually for forcing these poor souls to slow down for a few seconds because my bike can't go as fast as theirs.
They need to just learn some patients and slow down. It's not the end of the world that they have to add 5 seconds to their strava time.

I built a vintage Dragstar oddball a while back for cruising the cycleways, I have copped a bit for being apparently too slow, but dang I look cool doing it...

[adz193]

This thread is going nowhere anytime soon... Australia just loves to hate cyclists and lycra. Suprised everyone can fit on the road at the same time with their inflated ego's and self worth!
Chill out and be patient, it won't kill you. Whether i'm on my bike or in my car, I give a little you give a little and we all get along. Easier said than done though. Trying to change this mentality that all cyclists are idiots, now that's even more difficult!

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by DBourne

For what it's worth, I also keep my place in traffic, I don't filter to the front. I figure there is no point in me going to the front, to just be over taken off the lights again, that's just silly.

edit all this talk about how bad traffic is, I reckon more people should give riding a bike a go. Would be interesting to see how much the traffic would reduce, people would realise it's actually enjoyable and would be great to see people's tolerances increase (yeah ok, I'll cure cancer while I'm at it too).

Mate,well done. If more riders did this I think a lot of driver frustration would be avoided.
As far as more people riding,definitely,I'd like to ride a bike or a motorbike again as well,but I'm not prepared to do it in today's road environment , driving skills up here in QLD are probably worse than Sydney,iced up bogans galore. But it would reduce road stress,just like a fast train service between our east coast capitals would reduce road congestion and likely avoid all the on going yammer about second airports,but it's not going to happen anytime soon unfortunately .

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by adz193

Easier said than done though. Trying to change this mentality that all cyclists are idiots, now that's even more difficult!

It would be quite easy, we could have cyclists stop being idiots on the road, cutting on and out of traffic and generally stop making a nuisance of themselves, would fix the issue pretty quickly, but not likely to happen as I see it every single time I am out on the road.

[XByoot]

Actually I think the Lycra may be the issue for a few riders...it cuts off the blood supply to their brains
It's funny ,if I walked into a cafe wearing Lycra with my tackle on show I'd be a weirdo,ride a bike and park out the front and I'm a fashion statement,we are a strange species.
And to all the cyclists don't get all offended,if you wear his stuff then you gotta accept a friendly shot now and then.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by XByoot

...we are a strange species.

Haha so true, when I was living in Sydney I always used to laugh about people fighting over the closest parking spot to the front entrance of the gym, only to get inside and spend the next hour walking on a tread mill.

I used to (still do) really question the intelligence and reasoning power of these people, humans are strange creatures, the more people I deal with the more I like my dogs

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

It would be quite easy, we could have cyclists stop being idiots on the road, cutting on and out of traffic and generally stop making a nuisance of themselves, would fix the issue pretty quickly, but not likely to happen as I see it every single time I am out on the road.

I see drivers texting at freeway speeds , not indicating , tailgating , running red lights , tailgating, struggling to maintain lane position ,,applying make up , shaving and even eating cereal while driving. I don't expect this is going to change any time soon either.
For the record i am a track cyclist and don't ride on the roads because i think driving standards are too low - not worth a risk.

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

I see drivers texting at freeway speeds , not indicating , tailgating , running red lights , tailgating, struggling to maintain lane position ,,applying make up , shaving and even eating cereal while driving. I don't expect this is going to change any time soon either.

And these people probably ride bikes too.

But Im with you,personally I wouldn't risk it on the roads. And WTF is going on with the "enviromentally conscious" parents who choose to drag their kids along in a trailer behind their bikes on a road? Seriously,I'm all for environmental awareness ,but to risk kids like that on our roads??

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Haha so true, when I was living in Sydney I always used to laugh about people fighting over the closest parking spot to the front entrance of the gym, only to get inside and spend the next hour walking on a tread mill.

Yep...and why do they need a high tech carbon fibre crotch accesory to do a cardio and leg workout? I get it if your trying to travel serious distances or are competing,but the average joe watches a few Tour de France races,gets out of his office,slips on the Lycra decorated with suitable logos and pedals his $5000 plus carbon fibre bike a few Kay's and parks for a coffee,really a $100 Huffy bike from target would give him the same if not better workout...bit the same as parking close to the gym and then hit the treadmills,it's all about being seen I guess.

[buggerlugs]

We have a lot of roads in the hinterland here designated as a type of riding loop for bike riders. They vary from 7 to 30 ks. Problem is they are narrow roads with terrible edges on them. They are a danger to both riders and car drivers. Not sure a lot of thought went into the idea, but they are very popular with the bike riders, both pedal and power............

[prydey]

Originally Posted by XByoot

Yep...and why do they need a high tech carbon fibre crotch accesory to do a cardio and leg workout? I get it if your trying to travel serious distances or are competing,but the average joe watches a few Tour de France races,gets out of his office,slips on the Lycra decorated with suitable logos and pedals his $5000 plus carbon fibre bike a few Kay's and parks for a coffee,really a $100 Huffy bike from target would give him the same if not better workout...bit the same as parking close to the gym and then hit the treadmills,it's all about being seen I guess.

Do you own a nice car? Surely a much cheaper less quality version would do the job just as well.

[ratter]

Originally Posted by XByoot

Yep...and why do they need a high tech carbon fibre crotch accesory to do a cardio and leg workout? I get it if your trying to travel serious distances or are competing,but the average joe watches a few Tour de France races,gets out of his office,slips on the Lycra decorated with suitable logos and pedals his $5000 plus carbon fibre bike a few Kay's and parks for a coffee,really a $100 Huffy bike from target would give him the same if not better workout...bit the same as parking close to the gym and then hit the treadmills,it's all about being seen I guess.

And a lada would get most people to their desired destination, but many choose better cars than that

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by ratter

And a lada would get most people to their desired destination,

Are you sure?

[XByoot]

Boys boys boys...loosen off the Lycra and read my post properly and you will see I'm not knocking a good bike for competition use or for travelling serious distances,it's in the second line you both quoted...and for the record my daily is an older car that's worth virtually zero. If you "need" your Lycra and multi thousand dollar bikes to feel better and get a basic form of exercise then go for it,free world,just don't waddle about in front of me in the cafe...puts me right off eating my poached eggs and snags

[XByoot]

Originally Posted by ratter

And a lada would get most people to their desired destination, but many choose better cars than that

I'd take the Lada over Lycra... When it dies I can walk or just ride my old mountain bike,and I wouldn't even need to stop at every cafe along the way
Try doing that in nut hugger and cleats Lycra .