Falcon Turbo six, most power potential from factory in the world

[Falcman0o7]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

In the old days Ford did a 250ci and 200ci version of this engine. Imagine a turbo version of the 200ci.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rw4XMalWv8

[Falcman0o7]

Originally Posted by mik

Even the the earlier falcon 6`s where a pretty low stressed torquey donk, i look at my own vct xr6, 15 years old , same head gasget, timing chain , still pulls like a train and is still very quiet for engine with some years on it and 235,000 k`s and many of them hard k`s.
a few weeks ago i noticed i was using a bit of coolant , i thought ah well the poor old thing is way overdue for some love, i put the cooling system pressure tester on it and it turned out when i did a radiator flush and removed the thermostat not long ago i didnt tighten the radiator hose on it enough and it was leaking a tiny bit ...... still going strong ..... what a grouse engine ! we will miss the falcon 6 when it goes.

I won't! I'll always have a ford 6 :P

[barnz_xr8]

Originally Posted by mik

bang for buck it is hard to go past the big six, how much torque do these other expensive turbo sixes make ?
have a look at this bad boy , not far from breaking into the eights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG2TylsSZBE
nizpro motor 1163 hp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2eWHNSaSZU

another bad boy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RePyipH01-U

man that purple xr6t could use a 2 speed glide to tame down the launch some.

[Eaturbo]

Yeah as with all motors the old saying that there's no replacement for displacement and if your talking 6 cyclinder modern day engines than we've got the biggest. It funny when you look at Nissan and Porsche they both ended up with nearly 4L engines to get the power they have now. The other point to remember is how fuel efficient the turbo six is for such a large engine.

[FPV GTHO]

XR6T/G6ET economy is excellent vs XR8, but the current M5 at almost 2 tonne and 400kw+ can get XR6 levels of economy.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

The fact that the inline 6 can even be compared in this group of engines is praise enough and if you factor in cost its even better.

This. Holdens 'state of the art' AlloyTec range of motors and Toyota's 'game changing' 2GR motors are nowhere close to the reputed RB, VR38, 2JZ and Barra motors. Amazing what grandpa's axe when coupled with Aussie ingenuity can do. If only the Barra had been direct injected in its last incarnation... We can only dream

[fps_grandma]

You want the lower density of an Aluminium block but the durability of iron or steel?
Por que no los dos?
The Nissan GT-R VR38DETT has its bored plasma-sprayed with low carbon steel. Very costly process.

Need to compare apples to apples.

At the end of the day people will generally drive their XR6 Turbos or GTRs to the shops. The engine builders know this.

Originally Posted by Stefan

911 turbo 450kw+, Nissan GTR 360kW, BMW M3 316kW. No good?

They don't like 91RON, direct-injected, aluminium/magnesium blocks and so on. Definitely worth lusting over though.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

This. Holdens 'state of the art' AlloyTec range of motors and Toyota's 'game changing' 2GR motors are nowhere close to the reputed RB, VR38, 2JZ and Barra motors. Amazing what grandpa's axe when coupled with Aussie ingenuity can do. If only the Barra had been direct injected in its last incarnation... We can only dream

GM spent squillions developing that engine and two new plants to build it. They apparently benchmarked competitor engines from Honda, Nissan and Toyota. And yet it couldn't, and still cant, match the effectiveness of the DOHC Ford Inline 6 (both turbo and N/A) that was developed on a show string.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by fps_grandma

The Nissan GT-R VR38DETT has its bored plasma-sprayed with low carbon steel. Very costly process.

Ford invention also, for every GTR engine they make Ford gets royalties

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

GM spent squillions developing that engine and two new plants to build it. They apparently benchmarked competitor engines from Honda, Nissan and Toyota. And yet it couldn't, and still cant, match the effectiveness of the DOHC Ford Inline 6 (both turbo and N/A) that was developed on a show string.

Its just a bloody massive pile of crap that Alloytec boat anchor, we've had no crap around 10 VZ-VE V6 Commodores in for engine light issues in the last week, and two of them for oil pressure sensors.

One of the VEs in my workshop at the moment has done timing chains at 57,000km.

The 6L V8s, no problems, you get the odd one in for an alternator or starter motor, and there are a bazillion of these in my region, but the V6 ones, my god keeping me in business.

They shouldn't have ditched the 3.8L V6, the Ecotec was a solid engine with good reliability.

You ask any mechanic about that 3.6L V6 Alloytec and no one has anything nice to say about it.

[Eaturbo]

Yeah have heard they are bad for timing chains which there is no real excuses for. They are only using a similar system and chain to many others so why they can't get 200,000kms out of a chain is beyond me. I know they also suffer from bad build up on the back of the inlet valves from the direct injection which does not spray fuel on the back of the valves and clean them like normal injection does

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its just a bloody massive pile of crap that Alloytec boat anchor, we've had no crap around 10 VZ-VE V6 Commodores in for engine light issues in the last week, and two of them for oil pressure sensors.

One of the VEs in my workshop at the moment has done timing chains at 57,000km.

The 6L V8s, no problems, you get the odd one in for an alternator or starter motor, and there are a bazillion of these in my region, but the V6 ones, my god keeping me in business.

They shouldn't have ditched the 3.8L V6, the Ecotec was a solid engine with good reliability.

You ask any mechanic about that 3.6L V6 Alloytec and no one has anything nice to say about it.

[Eaturbo]

Yeah and this plasma Sprayed stuff is actually crap. Motorbikes have been using the same system called, chrome, Nikasil, electro fusion. If it's gets a scratch or picks up or wears out or flakes off than the block is stuffed. It can be recoated but it's very sensitive stuff. You can get one bore get a small piece of dirt or carbon damage the coating and than the coating peels off and than that cyclinder is stuffed. It's great stuff when it's new but very costly as they get older and can't be rebored. Maybe could sleeve them like bike engines but not sure.

Originally Posted by fps_grandma

You want the lower density of an Aluminium block but the durability of iron or steel?
Por que no los dos?
The Nissan GT-R VR38DETT has its bored plasma-sprayed with low carbon steel. Very costly process.

Need to compare apples to apples.

At the end of the day people will generally drive their XR6 Turbos or GTRs to the shops. The engine builders know this.



They don't like 91RON, direct-injected, aluminium/magnesium blocks and so on. Definitely worth lusting over though.

[FPV GTHO]

The 3.8 would've needed to grow to 4.5l+ to remain competitive in power/torque.

Evidently they now have a 4.3l V6 based on the GenV architecture dubbed LV3.

[DFB FGXR6]

I have always wondered how GM got it so wrong with the Alloytec when they had supposedly benchmarked competitors V6 engines that were genuinely good motors.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I have always wondered how GM got it so wrong with the Alloytec when they had supposedly benchmarked competitors V6 engines that were genuinely good motors.

I think that it did meet most of the benchmarks they had set for it. We are very spoilt with Barra six that it is ahead of most other engines in it class in most areas. The area where the HFV6 motor suffers is durability which they probably are stuck with. Yes they lack torque but so does every V6 compared to the i6 Barra.

[barnz_xr8]

Originally Posted by NTF6

I'm thinking just like you. Take the four stroke motocross bikes prior to 2000 that had strokes longer than the bore diameter and then all that changed in the early 2000's when they went to over square bores with bore diameters way bigger than the stoke length and virtually non existent piston skirts and instantly producing heaps more KW's and more revs, it was a game changer.

4 stroke motor cross bikes before 2000?? yz400 lol

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

I think that it did meet most of the benchmarks they had set for it. We are very spoilt with Barra six that it is ahead of most other engines in it class in most areas. The area where the HFV6 motor suffers is durability which they probably are stuck with. Yes they lack torque but so does every V6 compared to the i6 Barra.

That and the lack of refinement. I cant stand the way that engine wheezes and wines, especially at low revs where an engine will spend most of its life. Nothing like the smooth rasp of a VW or Honda V6.

[Windsor220]

Even the Toyota and older Mitsubishi V6s feel better than the Alloytech.

[Sprintey]

I remember Dad excitedly asking me "What's it like?" when I first got a drive of the new Alloytec in a VZ for work (he has a VY with the 3.8). I replied "Keep yours, Dad." lol

The Ford I6 is an absolute gem, has been for a very long time.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Even the Toyota and older Mitsubishi V6s feel better than the Alloytech.

It's a pity some people have only experienced a V6 in a Commodore.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I remember Dad excitedly asking me "What's it like?" when I first got a drive of the new Alloytec in a VZ for work (he has a VY with the 3.8). I replied "Keep yours, Dad." lol

The Ford I6 is an absolute gem, has been for a very long time.

Funny you say that, I was selling new Holdens when the VZ came out. We still had VY2 stock with the Ecotec engines and we had a few people drive both and buy the VY as they said it felt better and more responsive. Once all the old stock was gone and people didn't have a choice they didn't know any better.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

Funny you say that, I was selling new Holdens when the VZ came out. We still had VY2 stock with the Ecotec engines and we had a few people drive both and buy the VY as they said it felt better and more responsive. Once all the old stock was gone and people didn't have a choice they didn't know any better.

The VY commodore was the best ever made. That V6 could actually be made to sound half decent and had some go. VE/VF V6s sound absolutely horrific..

[mick74GT]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

I think that it did meet most of the benchmarks they had set for it. We are very spoilt with Barra six that it is ahead of most other engines in it class in most areas. The area where the HFV6 motor suffers is durability which they probably are stuck with. Yes they lack torque but so does every V6 compared to the i6 Barra.

Exactly. Every v6 will lack torque compared to the i6 Barra. As a design the v6 is naturally not a balanced engine. The v6 option in the commodore was a real letdown. Probably why they sell so many v8s.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I have always wondered how GM got it so wrong with the Alloytec when they had supposedly benchmarked competitors V6 engines that were genuinely good motors.

Because GM

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

Funny you say that, I was selling new Holdens when the VZ came out. We still had VY2 stock with the Ecotec engines and we had a few people drive both and buy the VY as they said it felt better and more responsive. Once all the old stock was gone and people didn't have a choice they didn't know any better.

Yeah, every time I'd take Dad's one in for a service the Holden techs would tell me it (VY) was the best one they made - maybe from a smoothness, low down torque and reliability perspective. It is now happily garaged resplendent with 80,000km on it and one day I'll look after it. He was so stoked to actually buy a new car on its runout for a really competitive price, always called it his "flagship".

The 3.8 auto was good motor and transmission combo (at the time it copped flak) - only revealed by the motor after it having so many problems. In the same years Ford was doing the SOHC I6 and VCT in the AU and these were a great combination with the simple 4 speed auto as well.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by mick74GT

Exactly. Every v6 will lack torque compared to the i6 Barra. As a design the v6 is naturally not a balanced engine. The v6 option in the commodore was a real letdown. Probably why they sell so many v8s.

There's nothing stopping a V6 making torque like a Barra, most manufacturers simply don't make them bigger than 3.5l. Nissan has a 4l VQ V6 and its figures are almost spot on for what an FG I6 puts out. If Ford's Cyclone V6 was 4L instead of 3.7L, it would best it for torque with 40kw extra on the top end.

[XR Martin]

Problem with the alloytec is that the same people who bought them, also owned ecotecs in the past. Yet you cant do 30-50k service intervals in these modern engines. Ecotecs didnt care that the oil was 3 years old or that there was only 2L in the sump.

You can still get away with this in the Falcon 6, yet once its gone thats the last of the old school engines.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

I think that it did meet most of the benchmarks they had set for it. We are very spoilt with Barra six that it is ahead of most other engines in it class in most areas. The area where the HFV6 motor suffers is durability which they probably are stuck with. Yes they lack torque but so does every V6 compared to the i6 Barra.

I occasionally drive a V6 1GRFE powered 4wd and it doesn't feel like it lacks torque at all . It is very similar to Barra in feel .
These days you can get Barra numbers from 2l engines including Ecoboost from Ford stable.

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

The VY commodore was the best ever made. That V6 could actually be made to sound half decent and had some go. VE/VF V6s sound absolutely horrific..

Yeah have heard a few V6's with the SS quad exhaust and different system and the sound like someone Farting. You hear it and go " man does he know how bad that things sounds"

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

I occasionally drive a V6 1GRFE powered 4wd and it doesn't feel like it lacks torque at all . It is very similar to Barra in feel .

Yeah I'm just talking about the average V6 that we have had in the past and some of the present ones. I've driven a new Aurion and man them things don't lack any torque or power.