Gillard Gives Holden Workers 10% Pay Rise !! What about Ford !!!!

[malazn mafia]

Unfair. So working for Holedent is more Australian than designing and building cars at Fraud or screwing together boxes of car bits from Japan at Toy Yoda?

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by jmack

if people dont buy second hand ones then people wont buy new ones,1 needs the other.

Which is why the local manufacturers give HUGE discounts to staff and turn over the "executive-driven" cars so often.

[jpd80]

Without new Falcons being bought by someone, all those cheap second hand low mileage Falcons eventually disappear
and at around 700 or 800 a month, I'd say that supply and prices for second hand versions may tighten...

[stazza]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Personally I'd be happy to own a new SC HSV GTS if it was more realistically priced in N.Z.

Would this change your mind Rodge?

[joolz]

Australian manufacturing has simply been sold out to Thailand. Meanwhile our Governments feel nothing like us real Aussie do. Its called hurt and a great loss. Its sad to realise that this will be the last generation to build something so special.

[GT2]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

For those who can't see past a local automotive industry give a billion $$$ to what's left of the local component manufacturers.
For those who can, why not provide a billion $$$ to SPC Ardmona and save 1500 jobs. Sure they are owned by Coca-Cola Amatil but ...

Subsidise industries where we have a competitive advantage and ones that are Australian owned. Not ones that are foreign owned and where we struggle to compete. That's a waste of taxpayer dollars.
Having said that, 19 out of the 20 G20 nations produce cars.

Originally Posted by TC200six

As long as Ford still participates, it won't be any different to how it is in 2013. Stacked with dozens of Holden compared to a small amount of Fords.

I support Ford thick and thin in V8 Supercars, so I won't suddenly change sides because the Commodore is still an Australian car (for now).

[Spurious]

Gillard should give pensioners a pay rise! Give single parents back what she has taken away.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by XBGTFGGTP

Holden know the writing is on the wall.... On a global basis the Aussie numbers are simply too small and no matter what they do it will always be that way.

Your a bean counter Rodge, how long can you last if you earn $100.00 a week but it cost you $140.00 to live?

No question GM have the Aust Govt between a rock and a hard place.
When you consider all the taxes paid by Holden workers, third party suppliers and their employees, GST, LCT, stamp duty and so on earned from employee purchases and consider the monetary revolving effect their spending has on other businesses in those communities...as compared to potentially paying a very significant number of these people the dole with all the negative downstream financial and social effects that has on the wider community, are the Aust Govt better to keep propping Holden's local manufacturing operation up or pulling the pin ????...only the bean counters in the Australian Govt will know the answer to that one mate.

Originally Posted by stazza

Would this change your mind Rodge?

I'm no closet Holden HSV lover by any means mate BUT from a technical perspective when you look at the SC GTS the performance enthusiast in me admires the engineering effort they've gone too and also the way that Holden has worked with GM to bring the best available worldwide technology to Austrlian made cars shows high level's of mutual cooperation. I think the VF derserves a chance based on level of effort GM, Holden and HSV have made.

That said Holden and HSV not passing on the significant price drops to Kiwi customers has raised eyebrows on this side of the Tasman I can tell you. $125,290 plus on roads for a GTS when you can parallel import a new Jaguar XFR for around $120,000...I pretty sure I know which one looks better

[302 XC]

With businesses all around the country closing ,is it smoke and mirrors with what that wombat is doin , standing on her very much life limited soap box .....
For decades and decades aussie industries have either been sold out, moved off shore, closed,in turn laying of staff, which in effect has effected other aussie business wether directly or indirectly,and no one really gave a stuff ....
People buy on price, brand loyalty is that dismal now,its hardly a point of argument anymore ...
We as a country wether its from the top, the middle or the bottom end have shot this country in the foot with in house manufacturing
Its way way too late to complain now and the vast majority ,buying on price alone don't really care either

[mik]

Originally Posted by JC

This type of handout is possibly cheaper than paying all those workers the dole (New Start) and paying for retraining etc for an extended period of time. I have no problem with the governemtn doing something good for the country for once....

I think the same way JC, I'm just a bit cynical of whether gillard would really give a stuff if there wasn't a few votes to be had, and I still suspect gillards policies in the first were the straw that broke the motor industry's back in the first place.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GT450

This is the last commodore as we know it anyway and if it fails no amount of subsidy will save them. Unfortunately large RWD cars are considered dinosaurs with the majority of the buying public.
Be interesting watching Vfacts over the next few months , I hope they make it too but I don't hold out much hope.

Year on year, the commodore has been selling less (VE release saw less sold then the VZ). If you looks at the drop in sales it mimics the Falcon in dropping. Its just they have been selling more.

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Unfair. So working for Holedent is more Australian than designing and building cars at Fraud or screwing together boxes of car bits from Japan at Toy Yoda?

Ford pulled out. The government wanted to work with them but the US made the decision to pull out of manufacturing.

Originally Posted by FlivverFord

Gillard should give pensioners a pay rise! Give single parents back what she has taken away.

Pensioners have had an increase in their pension.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Rodge

When you consider all the taxes paid by Holden workers, third party suppliers and their employees, GST, LCT, stamp duty and so on earned from employee purchases and consider the monetary revolving effect their spending has on other businesses in those communities...as compared to potentially paying a very significant number of these people the dole with all the negative downstream financial and social effects that has on the wider community, are the Aust Govt better to keep propping Holden's local manufacturing operation up or pulling the pin ????...only the bean counters in the Australian Govt will know the answer to that one mate.

And when you consider the taxes paid by SPC Ardmona workers etc. etc. do stuff all.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Why not support Holden ? Other countries support their car industries on the basis of huge payback through the taxes of the workers in the plant itself and all the other third party suppliers and that's before those staff go and spend their money and generate GST for the Govt too. One party understands that you don't bite the hand that feeds you. I hope Holden make it. As good as the SRT8 is I wouldn't want that to be the only choice.

As for Ford, well they're going so have cooked their own goose in many respects.

Because it's a business, there are many small minded people that think that it should be making profit of it's own back,a nd then pouring all that profit into our economy. Basically, Parliament wants something for nothing.

Co-investment is vital. Jobs are vital. Taxes are vital.

But if you're a Politician, then that support is unpopular in the eyes of ignorant Australians.

[Spurious]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Year on year, the commodore has been selling less (VE release saw less sold then the VZ). If you looks at the drop in sales it mimics the Falcon in dropping. Its just they have been selling more.



Ford pulled out. The government wanted to work with them but the US made the decision to pull out of manufacturing.



Pensioners have had an increase in their pension.

A measly $5 or $6 ....whoopdydoo! Politicians don't know the meaning of "hard work". They probably only break a sweat when they're takin' a dump! I was recently dumped onto newstart (new...ha ha', that's a joke) and now I'm going backwards on $435 a week. I have genuinly applied for over 20 jobs in the last month and not even one "thanks but no thanks". Politicians have accepted that no-one can live on this amount but they don't give a hoot. They get driven home in their tax payer funded car while the house keeper stocks their fridge. $100+K a year and a fridge full of expensive wine....lifes good eh'!

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by FlivverFord

$100+K a year and a fridge full of expensive wine....lifes good eh'!

$190550 base salary for a senator.

[1TUFFUTE]

How does any of this make any sense....both falcon and commodore r gone in 2016 but both companies are willing to stay here with differing amounts of global content in the models that are added to the line up.
So why not support ford as well.......especially till 2016. That's a long way away

[KIWI-1]

One has better PR than the other?

[gokhan]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

How does any of this make any sense....both falcon and commodore r gone in 2016 but both companies are willing to stay here with differing amounts of global content in the models that are added to the line up.
So why not support ford as well.......especially till 2016. That's a long way away

Ford said no to any government handout; it's pulling out of manufacturing completely. Holden may stop building a Commodore post-2016 but have they said they will also pull out of manufacturing completely?

[chevypower]

Mandated pay increases = increased cost of running business = inability to compete = loss of jobs in the end. Good one Gillard.

[SpoolMan]

This thread has nothing to do with what a pensioner or Government departments pay there employees, etc, I suggest reading the first post and find out what the intended purpose of this thread actually is before you reply.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by FlivverFord

A measly $5 or $6 ....whoopdydoo! Politicians don't know the meaning of "hard work". They probably only break a sweat when they're takin' a dump! I was recently dumped onto newstart (new...ha ha', that's a joke) and now I'm going backwards on $435 a week. I have genuinly applied for over 20 jobs in the last month and not even one "thanks but no thanks". Politicians have accepted that no-one can live on this amount but they don't give a hoot. They get driven home in their tax payer funded car while the house keeper stocks their fridge. $100+K a year and a fridge full of expensive wine....lifes good eh'!

Don't forget they get looked after for the rest of their life AFTER they get out of politics
When the GFC hit , whos super didn't get touched , you guessed ,the pollies

$435 PW is about the average rent isn't it ........
Some muppet has calculated obviously that you don't need that flash car,house, furniture, lifestyle to be paid anymore
If you don't have lavish lifestyle, no debts, eat minimal to survive, that's not $6 coffees, maccas everyday,$435 PW isn't far of the money

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Mandated pay increases = increased cost of running business = inability to compete = loss of jobs in the end. Good one Gillard.

Its funny those who run a business, had a business,can see that writing on the wall plain as day
The problem with text book trained monkeys is they are so out of touch with reality its not funny ...
Let these bad decision makers be on the business end of running a company in this bad economic times, deal with the paperwork, the headaches, the un paid debts, the long hours sometimes unpaid, putting everything you've worked hard for on the line,then when it does all fall apart ,youve lost it all, you start from the bottom of the barrell again

Lifeis too easy for these monkeys ,
They can stuff anything they want , get everything paid for and handed to them , when it goes pear shape they loose their seat , but still get looked after forever

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by FlivverFord

A measly $5 or $6 ....whoopdydoo!

My folks are on the age pension and it seemed more then that.

If your struggling to find work try a temp agency. You should get regular work. Also seeing as your on welfare it should be an alright addition to your income.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'm confused. Holden wants pay cuts, but the government wants to give them a pay increase??

Simple really Holden wants to try and contain costs in a last minute hope of keeping some production in Australia, its trying to save its future manufacturing

The government desperate for votes, wants to throw money anywhere where it thinks it will pick up a vote, regardless of whether it helps or hinders the companies competitiveness with other countries.

In other words the government believes workers will vote for them if they get them a pay rise, it doesn't get any simpler than that.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Won't make a scrap of difference. The Australian public have stopped listening to politicians.

True dat. But they still gots to vote ainnit. Less youall wanna pay a fine or sumfthang.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by XBGTFGGTP

Holden know the writing is on the wall. The difference between Ford and Holden is Ford had the balls to make the decision first. Holden now have a easy way out to make the close down announcement as they can use Ford as an example.

I believe Holden have the same ignorance that GM had in the states of blackmailing the government and forcing them to give them a payout that they haven't paid off despite all the hype they have. Ford on the other hand took it upon themselves to mortgage themselves to the hilt including the blue oval and actually work themselves into a different position. And it has worked.

As much as I love big Australian Ford muscle cars (I've ad lots of them) the reality is the market has changed and unfortunately there is always a sacrificial lamb and we now what they are. On a global basis the Aussie numbers are simply too small and no matter what they do it will always be that way.

Your a bean counter Rodge, how long can you last if you earn $100.00 a week but it cost you $140.00 to live?

The best post ive read in Forums history. The truth.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

$435 PW is about the average rent isn't it ........
Some muppet has calculated obviously that you don't need that flash car,house, furniture, lifestyle to be paid anymore
If you don't have lavish lifestyle, no debts, eat minimal to survive, that's not $6 coffees, maccas everyday,$435 PW isn't far of the money

You'll find newstart is closer to $435 per fortnight mate. I'm gonna put money on Flivverford made a typo.
Go live on it for 3 months and tell me how you fare.

[SpoolMan]

Rather than keeping having to edit posts after I posted a guideline that must be invisible, thread is now closed.

The thread was supposed to about Government funding for vehicles.

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