Hsv 2013 - Page 2

ford man xf · 22-12-2012, 03:58 PM

At then end of the day it's pretty much irrelevant what HSV offer, because it's more of a loyalty game than anything else. FPV offer a more varied range of engines, even when you compare power output and acceleration times this also becomes irrelevant because Australians are more in love with HSV, this shows in the sales figures.

FPV GTHO · 22-12-2012, 04:10 PM

Calling it irrelevant is a big call. With more pressure from SRT and AMG, and with HSV already offering more tech, FPV risk being left out of the game if they can't compete in a wider field. With everything being taken control by Ford, a successful offering also has the opportunity of high returns.

ford man xf · 22-12-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Calling it irrelevant is a big call. With more pressure from SRT and AMG, and with HSV already offering more tech, FPV risk being left out of the game if they can't compete in a wider field. With everything being taken control by Ford, a successful offering also has the opportunity of high returns.

True, but in terms of power output, how much will this play a factor, if HSV were to offer a car that matches FPV (or exceeds FPV by 5 or 10 kw on paper/badge) and then FPV match or exceed HSV's figure how many people would choose the FPV product over the HSV offering I wonder?

To give you an example 2 of my mates who purchased from HSV didn't even take a look at FPV products, I hear this a lot from other people, maybe I'm clutching at straws but it just seems that HSV have that image.

Winter XR8 · 22-12-2012, 04:27 PM

I must have been the only person that saw the last motor mag?? The VF HSV will be retaining the 6.2l with no plans to supercharge it. Power has been bumped up to 335kw in the GTS. FPV will still eat it up!

excopau · 22-12-2012, 04:31 PM

Badge will have 335 on it, but will the motor really have 335 from HSV, probably just badge engineering

Bossxr8 · 22-12-2012, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

If Ford management think they can cost cut and remove even more equipment differentiation between regular Ford Falcon product and FPV and expect customers to remain loyal when the VF is adding significant tech content and the SRT8 is miles ahead they have rocks in their heads.

There was a time when all FPV's got special firmer bolstering in the seats and chunky steering wheels for example, people have noticed the deletion of these things.

Not cutting equipment, cutting models from the range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbutler

Agreed spoolman....
Something to think about to is, Ford now control & own everything about the former FPV, so I think there will pretty big changes comming along in the way Ford handle there performance models. If holden bump there 6.2 up to 400kw [which I doubt] Ford wont follow suit. IMO.. Ford will change what FPV did & how they did it, for the better, To be frank I think FPV were to intersted in their bottom line, & were not interested in the product Ford just sold FPV the cars & FPV did the as little as possable to make as much as possable.[again IMO] Ford wont do that as they will be able to do the same job "or better" for less money which will be plowed back into the product.

You're forgetting Ford spent about $20 million buying out Prodrive, and that needs to be paid for. Your kidding yourself if you think Ford will plow any money back into the product, any profits will go to paying that back.

HSV are sticking with the 6.2 for now until the new engine becomes available 12-18 months down the track. The GTS may get a supercharged engine or it may be a model even further up the range like GTSR, it won't be fitted to Clubbies and Maloos etc.

UberKnee · 22-12-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford man xf

True, but in terms of power output, how much will this play a factor, if HSV were to offer a car that matches FPV (or exceeds FPV by 5 or 10 kw on paper/badge) and then FPV match or exceed HSV's figure how many people would choose the FPV product over the HSV offering I wonder?

To give you an example 2 of my mates who purchased from HSV didn't even take a look at FPV products, I hear this a lot from other people, maybe I'm clutching at straws but it just seems that HSV have that image.

Unfortunately that seems to be the case, HSV really have the market cornered, they're the first and only $70-$90k car that people go to. Its a shame because in my opinion FPV offer the better product than HSV. In power and looks particularly, gadgets wise FPV is behind HSV but its an Aussie car we're light years behind the gadgets that have been in German, Japanese and even American cars for a good decade.

Auslandau · 22-12-2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You're forgetting Ford spent about $20 million buying out Prodrive, and that needs to be paid for. Your kidding yourself if you think Ford will plow any money back into the product, any profits will go to paying that back.

On the flip side, Ford spent the $20 on a brand which of course is FPV. They must see the merit in the brand or they would have let it disappear. Why would they waste 20 million just for a name they didn't really need without continuing to invest? They will pay it back with improvements ...... not sitting on their hands. Why did they buy them out if they don't?

If they have invested this amount, why the hell wouldn't they do everything in their power and budget to make damn sure that they make a good return on that investment. Of course they will put more in. They have to ...... they are not that silly really. They have bought the developed S/C engine, now the only thing they need to spend money on is the other bits and pieces to make it more attractive to those who think trinkets are the most important thing.

They have already completed RSpec so the development to that point is done and dusted. Now they can spend Millions on developing heated seats and cooling cup holders.

Where does that leave us? For the next series, what ever HSV do with the VF, Ford will be all over them like a rash. More so, I believe, than what Pro Drive could have delivered ..... even though they did a great job getting it to where it is now ..... despite some who knock it and in my mind, extremely unfairly.

Nikked · 23-12-2012, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You're forgetting Ford spent about $20 million buying out Prodrive, and that needs to be paid for. Your kidding yourself if you think Ford will plow any money back into the product, any profits will go to paying that back.

Yep, and saved $40million in developing a supercharged engine package that has much in reserve...plus the improvements in the chsssis area. And now every FPV product sold is profit for ford alone, not split between Prodrive and Ford...

But, all that is ignored hey....Ford are just putting together a diabolical plan to rid the world of ford RWD sedans...

**CAT600** · 23-12-2012, 12:25 AM

While I do not expect there to be a power war igniting between the two rivals, I think both Ford and HSV are appreciative of the supremacy of the current Miami (and the F6, but lets be honest this is a V8 thing at heart and the F6 just gives Ford another arrow in the quiver to lure maturing turbofans into a large car something the Lion does not have)

With respect to an LSA-style configuration finding its way into the next Holden theres no way it will be a mainstream model but I could see something akin to the W427 coming to fruition.... this would be a great outcome because we may finally be birthed the intercooled 5.0L that we have all been hoping for.

As junky as the driveshaft and IRS bush/suspension setup in the FG is, the rest of the driveline is well and truly up to a circa 400rwkw engine and therefore not as infallible as it was just a few short years ago.

Daniel

Falcman0o7 · 23-12-2012, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Im sure HSV have said that they are after "refinement" rather then outright power...

It's about time!

HULK EF · 23-12-2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Im sure HSV have said that they are after "refinement" rather then outright power...

So says the brand that cant win the Horsepower war.. -just like tickford in the late 90's and early 2000's..

Gobes32 · 23-12-2012, 04:55 PM

Ok guys I am ready for a flaming but I just do not see the point in a 410kw family sedan, how much power is too much? The fastest car I have ever taken a ride in is a VX Clubsport with "only" 255kw. It was a very fast, torquey car, to think they will release a 410kw Commodore, if they were to do so, beggars belief.

irish2 · 23-12-2012, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Ok guys I am ready for a flaming but I just do not see the point in a 410kw family sedan, how much power is too much? The fastest car I have ever taken a ride in is a VX Clubsport with "only" 255kw. It was a very fast, torquey car, to think they will release a 410kw Commodore, if they were to do so, beggars belief.

A 410kw falcadore will still be slower, acceleration wise than other things on our road. The ones doing crazy speeds and dying as a result are in V6 commodores and 4cyl imports.

Gobes32 · 23-12-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

A 410kw falcadore will still be slower, acceleration wise than other things on our road. The ones doing crazy speeds and dying as a result are in V6 commodores and 4cyl imports.

I am not worried about peoples safety, you buy a fast car and it is up to you to drive it safely. Moreso, I cannot believe the amount of R&D dollars that will be spent to build such a fast family sedan. Is there even a market for it? Look how hard it was for HSV to offload the 427's.

xisled · 23-12-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I am not worried about peoples safety, you buy a fast car and it is up to you to drive it safely. Moreso, I cannot believe the amount of R&D dollars that will be spent to build such a fast family sedan. Is there even a market for it? Look how hard it was for HSV to offload the 427's.

The Clubsport and GT is not marketed at a family sedan, but I do think that HSV will have around 340kw

flappist · 23-12-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

The Clubsport and GT is not marketed at a family sedan, but I do think that HSV will have around 340kw

I heard they were actually going to have a huge reverse mirror image 340 badge on the grill so FPV owners can see it is the new model.......

UberKnee · 24-12-2012, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I am not worried about peoples safety, you buy a fast car and it is up to you to drive it safely. Moreso, I cannot believe the amount of R&D dollars that will be spent to build such a fast family sedan. Is there even a market for it? Look how hard it was for HSV to offload the 427's.

The ridiculous pricetag wouldn't have helped. .8 of a litre extra doubled the price tag, and that was just a crate motor, the LSA in a Commo would probably be sold for a similarly ridiculous price.

Compared to AMG C63s, RS4s, M5s even 400kw Commodores/Falcons are slow.

Windsor220 · 24-12-2012, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberKnee

The ridiculous pricetag wouldn't have helped. .8 of a litre extra doubled the price tag, and that was just a crate motor, the LSA in a Commo would probably be sold for a similarly ridiculous price.

Compared to AMG C63s, RS4s, M5s even 400kw Commodores/Falcons are slow.

The GT R spec isnt too far off those cars now and a lot cheaper.

**PridenJoy** · 24-12-2012, 12:05 PM

I believe if HSV raise the power output of the GTS to 335kw Ford can just rebadge the GT as GT345 without doing anything at all under the bonnet.

Archilino · 24-12-2012, 03:30 PM

I wonder if the media will treat the 400kw HSV the same way it treated the 270kw F6 typhoon when it first came out...

Franco Cozzo · 24-12-2012, 03:41 PM

It will come with 3 wheels, powered by Briggs and Stratton, with the Chev badge on the front, it will fly out the doors

FPV GTHO · 25-12-2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archilino

I wonder if the media will treat the 400kw HSV the same way it treated the 270kw F6 typhoon when it first came out...

But a 400kw HSV should be able to take the abuse given the platform already sees high numbers with the Camaro.

Resurrection · 25-12-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falco GT51

Any confermation on the power output for the 2013 HSV and will it be supercharged?
Speculation a 410kw supercharged 6.2L, 0 - 100 in 4 seconds.
What will FPV do, how much more can they push the FPV range and will Ford respond?

HSV will get the LSA engine.

FPV are a spent force as Prodrive are no longer involved.

Archilino · 25-12-2012, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

But a 400kw HSV should be able to take the abuse given the platform already sees high numbers with the Camaro.

My comment was in reference to the then 'new Aussie supercharge scare' how some media thought it was too powerful for an Aussie car with its 550nm of torque.

Nikked · 26-12-2012, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

HSV will get the LSA engine.

FPV are a spent force as Prodrive are no longer involved.

Im pretty sure that the last time Ford built GT in house it demolished every holden...

ford man xf · 26-12-2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

HSV will get the LSA engine.

FPV are a spent force as Prodrive are no longer involved.

As long as there is a market for Australian performance sedans FPV will fill part of the niche.

It really isn't that hard for Ford to increase the performance, all the hard work is done, as someone already alluded too an intercooled option was dropped, this could be revived, and with power figures already underquoted it's apparent that a badge change would only be required, although this would leave acceleration times the same. Direct injection could also be added in a future model.

The biggest enemy is new emission laws which get stricter each time new ones are phased in.

Auslandau · 26-12-2012, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

FPV are a spent force as Prodrive are no longer involved.

OH do tell ....... don't just stop there?

Resurrection · 28-12-2012, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Im pretty sure that the last time Ford built GT in house it demolished every holden...

That would have been the XB GT. Did it demolish the Torana SL/R 5000?

irish2 · 28-12-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

That would have been the XB GT. Did it demolish the Torana SL/R 5000?

Considering the 16 sec quarter of the Torry didn't even beat prior iterations of the GT it is no contest. If you are referring to the modified race versions then that is really a moot point.