Holden's LPG range released including Caprice, SV6 and Sportwagon

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

A bit less power? Who really cares when you can only do 100 or 110 before Plod puts his foot down on you with the camera-infested highway...

It's about the every day experience. To get any meaningful acceleration out of the base version of the HFV6, especially in port injected form, you have to mash the throttle - something you don't have to do with the Ford I6 because of the mountain of torque down low. The V6 lacks torque in the midrange, and lacks it even more where you need it - down low.

[PoweredByCNG]

Guys, get this. Holden don't even supply a spare wheel with their PETROL Commodores as standard anymore. With the LPG version, they can now claim that there is 'no bootspace compromise' because the spare wheel isn't present normally anyway. FAIL!

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Guys, get this. Holden don't even supply a spare wheel with their PETROL Commodores as standard anymore. With the LPG version, they can now claim that there is 'no bootspace compromise' because the spare wheel isn't present normally anyway. FAIL!

You sure about that...? The SV6 we looked at had a space saver, but they were changing it to a full sized matching spare...this was a current VE series 2.

Both the Falcon and the Commodore came with a space saver, but the dealerships up here remove that and replace it or just plain order them with a matching sized spare instead...but they do have a spare wheel.

[PoweredByCNG]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

You sure about that...? The SV6 we looked at had a space saver, but they were changing it to a full sized matching spare...this was a current VE series 2.

Yup, 100% sure. Got the latest PDF brochure direct from Holden. Space saver and full-sized spares are optional extras with the tyre sealant / pump kit as standard.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Unless you live outside the capital cities, you have no idea how big a thing it is for a car not to have a proper spare tyre.

Hell, out here, the first thing people demand in a new car isn't power, isn't 0-100 times, it's a full sized matching spare, as you can easily be 200km+ from the nearest place that even looks like being able to source a tyre for you. In fact both the Ford and Holden dealers in Rocky said they just automatically fit full sized matching spares to any car they order in at no extra cost, as they know the score and where a lot of thier buyers come from.

A bit less power? Who really cares when you can only do 100 or 110 before Plod puts his foot down on you with the camera-infested highway. Full sized spare and no loss of boot space? That will be a big drawcard...as I said, outside the capital cities...

But I dont think this car is really targeted to non captial cities buyers??

[madmelon]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It does, the last LPG version with 4-speed and mixer had 318 nm, the new version will have more torque..

Sorry I misread the article- it says peak power falls short of the 3L, not peak torque. Oops!

It's still interesting that they can't even muster as much power out of it as the 3L gets...I wonder if it has any internal mods at all or whether they just whacked the vapor injection on a stock 3.6L package...

[csv8]

FORD need to advertise the difference between the two lpg systems..but they won't...

[Carby]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Yup, 100% sure. Got the latest PDF brochure direct from Holden. Space saver and full-sized spares are optional extras with the tyre sealant / pump kit as standard.

At least you can get full sized spares without any boot space loss.

I remember when the dedicated LPG was first mooted by Holden all the "know alls" on this forum were were saying that they would have to give up boot space like the Falcon - well looks like a new designed tank has taken care of that situation.

People who buy LPG do so to cut costs so I think it's economy as opposed to power will be more important.

Why they didn't go for a Liquid phase injector system beats me though.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

No suprise Cruze has gone up in price, its the 3rd time it has happened since it was made here. It went up a few hundred when it was released, then went up again about 6 months later, and its now gone up again.

The Focus went up in price as soon as Wheels announced it was in the final selection of COTY. Went up a few thousand in January while we were looking.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

But I dont think this car is really targeted to non captial cities buyers??

Come on! You're not serious, are you?

Ford and Holden have always targeted City and Country sales; their cars are built for "Australian" conditions, they have a testing ground that simulates city and country conditions.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

It's about the every day experience. To get any meaningful acceleration out of the base version of the HFV6, especially in port injected form, you have to mash the throttle - something you don't have to do with the Ford I6 because of the mountain of torque down low. The V6 lacks torque in the midrange, and lacks it even more where you need it - down low.

I love the I6 engine, it was one of the reasons I purchased the Territory. I hope Ford can their plans to stop production of the I6, and go for a V6.

[dimka100]

Hmm how do we know this information is legit? No other car news sites came up with any of that info … the 21st is supposed to be the date when Holden announces their LPG products to the media.

Nut I love all the Holden haters on this forum … it just shows the narrow minded thinking of some members … what people fail to understand is that bad LPG Holden product means more bad LPG reputation in the market place, this will do no favours to the Falcon product as people simply write off LPG in their mindset no matter how good the kw or whatever numbers look like.

As a matter of fact, Ford needs more makes to release good LPG products in the market place, and drive up the general LPG reputation and market awareness … without that the LPG Falcon is doomed no matter how good of a product it is … and the current sales numbers clearly demonstrate that!

[mik]

Originally Posted by Carby

At least you can get full sized spares without any boot space loss.

I remember when the dedicated LPG was first mooted by Holden all the "know alls" on this forum were were saying that they would have to give up boot space like the Falcon - well looks like a new designed tank has taken care of that situation.

People who buy LPG do so to cut costs so I think it's economy as opposed to power will be more important.

Why they didn't go for a Liquid phase injector system beats me though.

well that`s true cost is a major consideration, but people still want a vehicle that won`t baulk on a hill with a bit of weight in it or towed behind it, to me having a lower torque revy engine means just the fact of having to rev it harder more often surely must make it less economical, if your putt putting it to the local shopping centre at 40 kph it probably won`t matter, the 6 speed if fitted will help it on the flat but won`t be much fun on the hills i suspect.

[Grobbo]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Hmm how do we know this information is legit? No other car news sites came up with any of that info … the 21st is supposed to be the date when Holden announces their LPG products to the media.

Nut I love all the Holden haters on this forum … it just shows the narrow minded thinking of some members … what people fail to understand is that bad LPG Holden product means more bad LPG reputation in the market place, this will do no favours to the Falcon product as people simply write off LPG in their mindset no matter how good the kw or whatever numbers look like.

As a matter of fact, Ford needs more makes to release good LPG products in the market place, and drive up the general LPG reputation and market awareness … without that the LPG Falcon is doomed no matter how good of a product it is … and the current sales numbers clearly demonstrate that!

Mmmm nah I don't reckon you neccesarily need other good products, you can be the only good one. There are plenty of examples of this the world over. However, in all these cases, the leading product has been skillfully and extensively MARKETED.

It wouldn't be hard to market the LPI along the lines of 'Finally an LPG car that's better than petrol' or whatever... But no, not a peep from Ford's marketing dept about EcoLPI. Not a peep! Bizaare.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by csv8

FORD need to advertise the difference between the two lpg systems..but they won't...

What makes you think that?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Come on! You're not serious, are you?

Ford and Holden have always targeted City and Country sales; their cars are built for "Australian" conditions, they have a testing ground that simulates city and country conditions.

I'm talking LPG!!! Ask anyone from the country on this website & they tell that LPG is not an option for them..

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Grobbo

It wouldn't be hard to market the LPI along the lines of 'Finally an LPG car that's better than petrol' or whatever... But no, not a peep from Ford's marketing dept about EcoLPI. Not a peep! Bizaare.

That would be false advertising.

LPG is great but, as with anything, there are pros and cons that have to be weighed up.

With large markets, such as the US and Europe, spending only a very small percentage of their dollars on LPG, it will always be the poor (but useful) cousin to Diesel and petrol.

I think Ford are on a winner with their Diesel engine.

Originally Posted by An Action Plan for Cars

Natural gas and Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG) have been available to car owners since the 1930s, but the impact of these fuels has to date been limited. Natural gas releases somewhat fewer GHG emissions than petroleum combustion for the same amount of energy. However, this advantage can be offset by leakage of just a few percent in the fuel infrastructure or in the vehicle itself, because methane is a much more potent GHG than CO2. Today, U.S. light‐duty vehicles obtain about one‐quarter of one percent of their energy needs from LPG, and essentially none from natural gas (Davis, Diegel, & Boundy, 2009). Although natural gas and LPG offer the potential to diversify energy supply, any energy security benefits will depend on the origins and relative price volatility of each fuel. In addition to leakage and potential security concerns, there are several other barriers to large‐scale adoption, including reduced trunk space due to fuel tank volume, longer refueling time, reduced range between refueling, limited numbers of refueling stations, and restrictions (e.g. in tunnels) for hazardous materials transport. Recent discoveries of significant natural gas in shale deposits in the U.S. suggest it could in the mid‐term be a relatively low cost source of energy, but the inconvenience of using gaseous fuels in transportation as opposed to other sectors remains a major disadvantage.

http://web.mit.edu/sloan-auto-lab/re...ion_8Feb10.pdf

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by dimka100

what people fail to understand is that bad LPG Holden product means more bad LPG reputation in the market place, this will do no favours to the Falcon product as people simply write off LPG in their mindset no matter how good the kw or whatever numbers look like.

GOLD!

Holden will make the LPG Commodore so crap that it will affect EcoLPI sales.

I like the cut of your jib brother!


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by Carby

Why they didn't go for a Liquid phase injector system beats me though.

Incompetence?


Lukeyson

[Grobbo]

Originally Posted by johnydep

That would be false advertising.

LPG is great but, as with anything, there are pros and cons that have to be weighed up.

With large markets, such as the US and Europe, spending only a very small percentage of their dollars on LPG, it will always be the poor (but useful) cousin to Diesel and petrol.

I think Ford are on a winner with their Diesel engine.

Fine, say "Finally an LPG engine with better performance than petrol" or something along those lines. Whatever - details details.

We all know the pros and cons, the major pro being it is cheaper to run, (in Oz at least) but the the biggest 'con' of LPG has always been reduced performance, now that is no longer the case, so you'd think they'd push that angle... Buuuut no.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

GOLD!

Holden will make the LPG Commodore so crap that it will affect EcoLPI sales.

I like the cut of your jib brother!


Lukeyson

He has a point, the major problems with LPG are reputational. The better the LPG products there are on the market the better it is for everyone selling LPG products. Like what happened to diesel.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I'm talking LPG!!! Ask anyone from the country on this website & they tell that LPG is not an option for them..

Defie 'country' for me first. I live in a rural city (approx 12000 people) that is located 200 kms from the nearest capital. Does that mean I live in the 'country'?

If so, then LPG is certainly an option for me, and one that I will pursue when the circumstances end up being right for me.

And to comment about the full size spare being mandatory in the country made by someone else, let me assure you that having a space saver spare is not an issue for me. In fact, it would cause very little inconvenience if I was in need of using it. And I travel 110kms to and from work 9 days a fortnight. Not that I have ever had to use a spare before (touch wood )

One thing I have learnt in my nearly 40 years on this planet is that my personal circumstance should never ever be construed by me to be the 'norm' or the same as the majority of others circumstances.

Craig H

[Grobbo]

Originally Posted by Brazen

He has a point, the major problems with LPG are reputational. The better the LPG products there are on the market the better it is for everyone selling LPG products. Like what happened to diesel.

They are reputational, but we won't ever see a flood of manufacturers pumping out ever improving LPG engines like with diesel, because Australia's the only place where LPG is cheap enough to make sense.

With only two players offering LPG cars, they'll need to fix it's reputation with good marketing.

Which is a good point actually, because Holden will probably market the hell out of thier LPG cars, so Ford will certainly benefit from that too.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

Defie 'country' for me first. I live in a rural city (approx 12000 people) that is located 200 kms from the nearest capital. Does that mean I live in the 'country'?

If so, then LPG is certainly an option for me, and one that I will pursue when the circumstances end up being right for me.

And to comment about the full size spare being mandatory in the country made by someone else, let me assure you that having a space saver spare is not an issue for me. In fact, it would cause very little inconvenience if I was in need of using it. And I travel 110kms to and from work 9 days a fortnight. Not that I have ever had to use a spare before (touch wood )

One thing I have learnt in my nearly 40 years on this planet is that my personal circumstance should never ever be construed by me to be the 'norm' or the same as the majority of others circumstances.

Craig H

Ok, let me rephrase referring back to the original comment. If someone things a spare is a 110% must (i.e. deal breaker not to have one) because they are 200km from anywhere. Then LPG is mostly not going to be an option anyway, if you get what I'm saying? But hey, am I city boy, so I could be totally wrong!!

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

One thing I have learnt in my nearly 40 years on this planet is that my personal circumstance should never ever be construed by me to be the 'norm' or the same as the majority of others circumstances.

Craig H

Well said.

[TMC]

I agree that if Holden make dodgy gutless LPG variants it will give the whole LPG thing a bad name. What I don't understand is why Holden make such gutless, no torque V6 engines, that require tons of right foot pressure for them to perform, and are even worse on LPG. A properly designed efficient LPG system picks up low down torque anyway. But maybe that is their plan, to shoot LPG in the foot.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

What makes you think that?

Fords repututation of not advertising the FG2..I hope they do advertise the difference between the 2 systems..but more chance of winning Lotto!!!!!

[dimka100]

People keep talking about Ford not advertising their products enough ... Did you people ever consider that they may not have the budget to advertise more??? You know advertising is expensive, yes that may be a revelation to some but it actually is, just look at FaceBook/Google and all the billions a year they make from advertising alone ...

Sometimes having a competitor advertise a particular technology is extremely beneficial to a company who's advertising budget might be restricted or insufficient. There is a term for that in Marketing but I can't remember what it is ...

[G6E Turbo 2]

Looks like Wheels front cover is sorted for the next 3 months

[mik]

that is a point Dimka100, i was shocked last night to see a falcon ad on the idiot box which was nice to see, only mentioned FPV though, you would think they would be bill boarding it won Australia`s best large car 2011 award would`nt you, as you say funds might be just not there.