Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon?

[GTPete]

Bought a new car 12 months ago, it wasnt a Falcon, purchase was based on below.

Price = 20k brand new drive away for a mid size car
Warranty = 5 years unlimited km
Fuel Economy = 7 litres per 100kms avg
Performance = Acceptable, exceeds expectations
Safety Rating = 4 star, side airbags inc, would have preffered 5 star
Appearance = Reasonably well styled
Dealer Experience = Very good, business like and courteous
Ongoing Service Costs = Minimal
Reliability = Excellent
Functionality = Ideal for family and work use, seats 5 (3 teenagers, 2 adults) in reasonable comfort

If I could buy a new XR6 with similiar warranty at 23k then I would have considered it, but warranty and buy price were not competetive. Yes the Falcon is a larger car with a better safety rating but I was prepared to compromise on those points.

[In Focus]

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and..._and_territory

Ford will axe Falcon and Territory
By Neil DowlingThe Sunday Times06 January 2012EmailPrint+-
Ford CEO Alan Mulally ... the real story is about whether Australia plays a manufacturing role in the building of the next large car.
Ford will dump the rear-drive Falcon - and probably the Territory - within five years.

Ford boss Alan Mulally won’t say it and he won’t even hint at it - merely putting off the announcement with "We’ll talk about that in the future" - but the writing is on the wall, tucked in between the rhetoric, the hyperbole and the irritatingly repetitive "One Ford" sales pitch.

Related CoverageFord won't drop FalconFord EcoSport compact SUV at $22,000Ford US will back the FalconElectric cars could save Commodore and FalconFord Territory starts deliveriesBuy a FordMore on FORDCar news & reviews
The issue really isn’t about Ford going front-wheel drive. Or losing the Falcon name. Or seeing the end of television battles at Bathurst and commonality at taxi ranks all over the nation. Get used to it - it’s over. No, the real story is about whether Australia plays a manufacturing role in the building of the next large car.

Mulally is strong on the “One Ford” principle that he masterminded. He isn’t a "car guy" like most of his contemporary auto industry chiefs. But he is an astute businessman and he knows the importance of cutting costs as much as every engineer knows the benefits of cutting vehicle weight. One of his causes is parts sharing. He reckons - and no-one’s arguing - that 60-70 per cent of a vehicle segment can share the same parts.

Taken further, with the C-segment Focus, there are 11 "top hats" - engineer speak for bodies that can range from sedans to hatches, wagons to coupes, convertibles to SUVs, utes to vans. The platform, complete with the drivetrain choice, is the same for the 11 variants.

That’s economy of scale.

The second of his causes is placing the right car segment at the centre of its market. No more mass global distribution of vehicles from one plant. An example is Ford’s B-segment vehicles - Fiesta, Figo and EcoSport - in India for the Asia-Pacific market.

The Indian market alone is massive and is forecast to rise to nine-million units a year by 2020. It’s an ideal place to be when you’re making small cars for its developing and maturing market.

Australia, by contrast, is bouncing around one-million vehicle sales a year and will probably be unlikely to hit 1.5 million by 2020. Ford has a modest but important slice of this market but its large car sales performance is poor, falling to around 18,000 Falcon sales in 2011 - it’s lowest figure since Ford began making the car in 1960.

Mulally admits that he can’t get every model to be structured on these lines - but he can do about 95 per cent. The odd ones out will include Mustang, which is a specific niche-market vehicle with specific drivetrain demands and a rear-drive platform.

Just like Falcon. Or is it? Mulally says motorists in the US, like other countries including Australia, are downsizing. That’s seen in the large car market in most global markets going into reverse over the past decade, and more so in the past five years.

"In the old days we would say the market was 25 per cent small car, 25 per cent mid-size cars and 50 per cent large cars," he said at the 2012 Delhi motor show where he unveiled the Indian-built, world focussed and Fiesta-based EcoSport SUV.

"Small cars were then seen as cheap and cheerful. Not anymore. Juts look at the Fiesta. We made a conscious decision to make cars for people that didn’t compromise on quality or safety or comfort or fuel efficiency or smart design but they wanted to choose a vehicle that works for them.

"You can se the future now. Now, nearly 60 per cent of vehicles - that’s 100 million a year - are B and C segment. Then 25 per cent are C and D segment and only 15 per cent are D and E segment. That’s a dramatic turnaround."

He said that the parts sharing and the acceptance that the company can make one car for a lot of markets - albeit with different "top hats" - is the key to Ford’s survival and by doing so, will make it the "most successful car company" in the world.

"When I joined (Ford, about five years ago) we had 97 nameplates. It’ll soon be 13 off eight or nine platforms with every variation - 11 variations on the Focus’ C-segment platform alone. That’s the future. The variation will be available to all our customers. We’ll be more affordable than anybody else."

Mulally knows the markets - importantly, the customers - are changing.

"Australia’s changing, the same way that the US is changing. You are seeing more and more smaller cars to serve the Australian customers," he says.

Where does Mulally see the rear-drive car in 10 years time?

"We don’t really know yet but clearly, the segment is getting smaller and we’re going to build platforms but over time, everything will move to that (downsizing) strategy - Falcon’s a great vehicle now and we’re continuing to invest in it over the next few years but over time, this is where the world is going - we’re going to be in every segment and we’ll make world-class product even if the segment is small. We’re always going to have a D/E segment car. It’s going to become more and more efficient - over time, right? - which can become a family of cars because that’s what the Australian customer wants."

And then the clanger: "Most customers don’t care where the car is made. They want the best value for money they can get."

Ford Australia can build - or at least - assemble a car and is likely to be very successful doing it. It can import the platform of the Ford Fusion - a C-D segment car shown in pre-production form at this month’s Detroit motor show - and "top hat" it with a sedan, hatch and SUV body made in Geelong.

It could even play a role in continuing with a rear-drive Falcon by continuing to supply partner Prodrive with Falcon sedan, ute and Territory shells to be built and sold as FPVs. That would create a niche market business for Australia’s performance enthusiasts while moving the car to a more upmarket position, away from taxi ranks, fleets and all the low-rent stigma that goes with those markets.

Hell, FPV could even launch low-cost performance vehicles to ignite the bottom end of the market.

It’s all possible. Just delete the Falcon word.

My take: more negative journalistic speculation.

[Falc'man]

Neil Dowling? Is he married to Joshua?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

As for Commodore, truth is Commodore was tracking that fast downward in 2008. Sportwagon saved Commodore's @rse.

Originally Posted by phillyc

I didn't agree at the time. I actually felt that they spent alot of money just to substitute a wagon sale for a sedan sale. Although I did agree it provided an alternative come lease renewal time.

But, for the last year and a bit, I would have to wholeheartedly agree. Sportwagon stopped what was a very downward sales trajectory of the Commodore because at that time,

heres a sales graph of the large car segment.



sportwagon was released in july 2008. apart from the odd spike here and there i can't really see any upward trend or levelling out compared with falcon and aurion.

the one area that commodore seems to have widened the gap a little is in 2006 which one would assume was the release of the VE, however looking back, the gap has widened and closed all through history. for all we know, the gap could narrow again through 2012 or it could widen further. when you look at it with a much broader view, its not as bad as what everyone tries to make out. its annoying the amount of commentators who make out its a problem unique to falcon.

the fact of the matter has been touched on a couple of times already in this thread. for most people, large cars don't make sense anymore. the only people that still buy them are those that NEED to, and those that WANT to. both those groups are small groups. small cars today are no longer that small and are no longer is there a compromise on equipment. often, the smaller cars actually have more features.

people just need to accept the fact that falcon (and the large car segment) is a bit part player now.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

heres a sales graph of the large car segment.

image

sportwagon was released in july 2008. apart from the odd spike here and there i can't really see any upward trend or levelling out compared with falcon and aurion.

the one area that commodore seems to have widened the gap a little is in 2006 which one would assume was the release of the VE, however looking back, the gap has widened and closed all through history. for all we know, the gap could narrow again through 2012 or it could widen further. when you look at it with a much broader view, its not as bad as what everyone tries to make out. its annoying the amount of commentators who make out its a problem unique to falcon.

the fact of the matter has been touched on a couple of times already in this thread. for most people, large cars don't make sense anymore. the only people that still buy them are those that NEED to, and those that WANT to. both those groups are small groups. small cars today are no longer that small and are no longer is there a compromise on equipment. often, the smaller cars actually have more features.

people just need to accept the fact that falcon (and the large car segment) is a bit part player now.

A graph's Y-axis scale can mask or exaggerate trends. What you need to do is graph a trend-line before Sportwagon release and then a trend line after. You will also need a trend line for the large car segment pre and post Sportwagon release to see how much they converge or diverge.

What you will see is that the Commodore was trending downwards until Sportwagon where the trend then levels out. you will have other factors muddying the water like the fact that the product is ageing which means sales will lessen over time regardless.

[Homer]

Why would you expect someone to spend twice as much for a car that will be worth less in five years time then a car that is 50% of its rrp, uses more fuel, is less reliable, not as well put together, relatively boring styling wise compared to the smaller offerings with less features, and from a brand that has a relatively bad name.
It’s not hard to see why it’s not selling, the car isn’t what the majority of the market wants in a new car.

The Ecoboost may sell a few more to fleets, but appealing to fleets isn’t a brand maker.

[z80]

Walk into any dealership.

They are all having trouble selling new cars.

I had eighteen thousand dollars knocked off the list price of a car two weeks ago...

The sheete is hitting the fan for all of them, the german manufacturers are bleeding the same as all the others.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

A graph's Y-axis scale can mask or exaggerate trends. What you need to do is graph a trend-line before Sportwagon release and then a trend line after. You will also need a trend line for the large car segment pre and post Sportwagon release to see how much they converge or diverge.

What you will see is that the Commodore was trending downwards until Sportwagon where the trend then levels out. you will have other factors muddying the water like the fact that the product is ageing which means sales will lessen over time regardless.

i think that graph tells enough of the story. if you look at the commodore in isolation, you could argue that mid 2008, there was a slight halt to the downward trend and a spike in sales and then the downward trend again albeit slightly higher. this would seem to back up the theory that sportwagon sales were largely extra sales.

personally i think the graph shows that mid 2008 all 3 models had a slight rise in fortunes.

my argument is, in my opinion, if sportwagon wasn't available, commodore would still be selling similar numbers to what it is selling.

[jpd80]

Look closely and you'll see how Falcon sales tanked right after E-Gas and wagon production stopped in Sept 2010.
At the same time, Ford tried to compensate fleets with petrol XR6 stock that didn't sell causing a 12 month stockpile.
Had Ford released EcoLPI in sedans, I think the sales numbers would have held firm above 2,500 and Utes up another 250-300



At the moment, Ford is building just over 30 EcoLPI engines a day so that means roughly 600 more Falcons a month
and I'd expect that Falcon sales will recover when we get past the traditionally quiet January & February months....

It's interesting that even when combined Camry and Aurion sales aren't that great, maybe that's an area
Ford and Holden should be looking at further exploiting with future big car designs.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Look closely and you'll see how Falcon sales tanked right after E-Gas and wagon production stopped in Sept 2010.
At the same time, Ford tried to compensate fleets with petrol XR6 stock that didn't sell causing a 12 month stockpile.
Had Ford released EcoLPI in sedans, I think the sales numbers would have held firm above 2,500 and Utes up another 250-300

image

At the moment, Ford is building just over 30 EcoLPI engines a day so that means roughly 600 more Falcons a month
and I'd expect that Falcon sales will recover when we get past the traditionally quiet January & February months....

It's interesting that even when combined Camry and Aurion sales aren't that great, maybe that's an area
Ford and Holden should be looking at further exploiting with future big car designs.

what more can the big three (oz) do to turn sales?
of course only talking local make not the import side.
the large car segment is dying at the cost of oz workers..

holden seen this and diversified to a mid size cruze..
another thing is to consider is opening the third line and make malibu, need gov assis, record sales, gmna handouts..

[Angeldust]

If u correlated that graph with changes in vehicle weight/size, u would see that nothing has changed..

Small cars are now medium cars, medium cars are now large, and large cars are stupidly too large etc...

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by K10wN

No where did I say Falcon is no longer reliable. What I did say is imported cars which were not known to be so reliable in past years now are of equal standard to cope with harsh Aussie conditions.

Korean brands have improved a lot, Japanese are good like always but Euro has never been as reliable in comparison... Years of new car complaint surveys show that.

Originally Posted by K10wN

Why BMW? What else is there in a medium sized 2 door coupe that is rear wheel drive (135i)?

OK, so tell us exactly what it is about 135i drivers that you despise to the point that it's stopping you from fulfilling your particular taste? Sounds like this could be the least of your troubles.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

thats it, they are quickly becoming a niche market, more something that is bought because someone wants a big boofy sedan with a bit of grunt, not because they wanna tow their caravan, or transport their 12 kids, of tow their 300t horsefloat...

I actually think it's the opposite .. The Falcon/Commodore is a utilitarian vehicle stuck outside a series of neiche markets. The Falcodore was designed to carry people, carry stuff, tow stuff, have reasonable to good levels of performance and survive Australias horrendous road conditions. It's been modified from sedan into ute, wagon, panel van .. And in commodes case a dual cab and AWD configuration. In this day people want a family car so buy midsize sedan .. And buy a 4x4 to tow the box trailer of rubbish to the tip. I've said it before, but I'll miss the locally designed and built cars when they are gone .. I can add them to my collection of orphans (AMCs and Plymouths)

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by burnz

what more can the big three (oz) do to turn sales?
of course only talking local make not the import side.
the large car segment is dying at the cost of oz workers..

Look at it this way, the scales of economy are still there, Ford says so and everytime we have a run up to Christmas we get these falcon is dying articles.

holden seen this and diversified to a mid size cruze..
another thing is to consider is opening the third line and make malibu, need gov assis, record sales, gmna handouts..

While two shift Holden diversifies with +$20,000 Cruze, one shift Ford diversifies with +$45,000 diesel Territory


Over the last ten years, look at Ford and Holden's profits, all of those past sales of 6,000 to 7,000/month
added basically nothing to their bottom lines, they were mostly empty sales to fill factories.

We live in a new time, people's needs are different and car makers have to respond to both.
The decision on the post 2015 car is done and I'm confident that it's another Falcon evolution,
one that is made possible by using the full assistance of "One Ford" and its resources.

[Neale]

Originally Posted by mrniceguy

Was talking to my old man about this today and he was saying the mazda 3 is close to 1700 kg, about 8inches wider than a vb commodore, and about 4 inches shorter. I think our definition of a small car is changing, rather than people actually wanting smaller cars.

I agree that cars like the Mazda 3 & focus are not really small cars anymore.

I dont know about the exact size differences, but I went from a ED falcon to a LS (06) focus, which is similar to the mazda 3 in alot of ways.

I prefer the focus in alot of ways. I can fit far more in the hatch than I would be able to fit in a Falcon, the fuel economy is heaps better & I can still fit 5 people in it on the rare occasion that I do. The focus is also more fun to drive than the falcon.

Sure I cant tow a horse trailer or car trailer. Not that I have needed to. But I can still tow up to 800kg in a box trailer.

On top of that the resale is far better than the same model falcon. For example heres a 2006 model Falcon & Focus resale comparison.

Focus LS CL 5 speed manual
$20,990 now worth $8,400 - $10,100

BF XT sedan 5 speed manual
$34,880 now worth $8,200 - $9,900

I dont think I will ever buy a falcon ever again. If I did need a larger car I would be looking at something like a mazda 6 or modeo for the same reasons.

[FPV8U]

If EcoLpi and the Ecoboost Falcon don't boost sales i see no other choice but to cut the model, it's not moving and it's a great car, i have been very tempted to move on a 2011 MK1 XR6T with the deals they are doing but i don't like debt, im still hoping that the XR8 will see the light of day again and if im 100% honest in no way would i be upgrading twice within a 4-5 year period if they did re-reale it at a later date.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Look at it this way, the scales of economy are still there, Ford says so and everytime we have a run up to Christmas we get these falcon is dying articles.


While two shift Holden diversifies with +$20,000 Cruze, one shift Ford diversifies with +$45,000 diesel Territory


Over the last ten years, look at Ford and Holden's profits, all of those past sales of 6,000 to 7,000/month
added basically nothing to their bottom lines, they were mostly empty sales to fill factories.

We live in a new time, people's needs are different and car makers have to respond to both.
The decision on the post 2015 car is done and I'm confident that it's another Falcon evolution,
one that is made possible by using the full assistance of "One Ford" and its resources.

i'm of the opinion that holden will drop the commodore and work on cruze and malibu..handout considered.
i think the large car is finnished..

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Neil Dowling

And then the clanger: "Most customers don’t care where the car is made. They want the best value for money they can get."

What a ****** he is, for all he knows Mullaly could have been talking about how imports have dominated sales charts (and this is probably what he was referring to)

[Pepscobra]

For me, it's Falcon build quality that would stop me buying another one.
As good as the locally made Fords are, there have still been alot of small quality issues with my BF that will have me hesitant to buy Falcon again.
My folks have just said they will be in the market for a new car this year. Can I really steer them towards the Falcon? They are at a stage of their life where they don't need any grief.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

For me, it's Falcon build quality that would stop me buying another one.
As good as the locally made Fords are, there have still been alot of small quality issues with my BF that will have me hesitant to buy Falcon again.
My folks have just said they will be in the market for a new car this year. Can I really steer them towards the Falcon? They are at a stage of their life where they don't need any grief.

I know it's hard but dont let the BF sway you too much. The FG is greatly improved in build quality over the B-series.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Gotta agree with most posts here. The small to medium cars do the job of transporting families just as well as the large cars now days and do it at lower purchase and running costs in most cases. And for those families who want something larger they go for the versatility of an SUV.

I bought my BA because I wanted a V8. As soon as a company brings out an affordable V8 powered rwd or awd small hatch or coupe I'll be grabbing one of those. (note I said affordable, an M3 or S4/RS4 is well out of my price bracket).

Actually I'm in the market for a Mustang now. I'm even considering, heaven forbid, buying a Monaro. But then in both cases I'm not buying new so it wont effect the new sales of Falcons in any way anyway.

The Commodore is doing better than Falcon due to public perception (people believing it's the best large car and not trying anything else) and fleet sales.

[Spanrz]

Have a look on Fords Website...... Spot the Falcon!
It has lost it's stable to other Horses.

[Road_Warrior]

I wonder how many of these people have tried fitting a pram and the weekly shopping into a Mazda 3...

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I wonder how many of these people have tried fitting a pram and the weekly shopping into a Mazda 3...

Yeah, I think Ford's marketing is getting a little scott-free over all this. Ford and Holden to an extent have forgotten how to sell their large cars.

They should be selling reasons why you would want a large car. There are some very real reasons why you want a Falcon over a Mazda 3 but you never hear about it.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Whats stopping me?
Lack of funds.

given what you are buying, a falcadore is way over priced, imo.

we are speculating what will happen to ford aus, but what will happen to FPV? they are a Falcon company. they don't seem to be doing any hot hatches or other improved fords.

[Spanrz]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I wonder how many of these people have tried fitting a pram and the weekly shopping into a Mazda 3...

They will find out soon enough. "Oooops, shopping and babies doesn't fit my lifestyle anymore".

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Spanrz

They will find out soon enough. "Oooops, shopping and babies doesn't fit my lifestyle anymore".

You'd be surprised how well the boot space is in the hatch versions. Mind you these days people have two kids and all of a sudden you need a SUV.

[AU Mont]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Do poeple really buy cars based on stero types? There must be ALLOT of dumb people out there!! I guess things like price, safetly, cost & features mean nothing..

YES !!

i dunno why everyone wont accept that fact!!?

People who look at buying new cars these days go straight to japanese & euro makes, even if they just think the cars are built there

i personally seen a few females that have bought mazda 3 or suzuki swift and been severely ripped off at the dealer (after extras tint,mats etc.) on their flash new purchase on what is a pretty damn basic featured car........... do you honestly think these people have any sort of clue about cars other than how 'sexy' they think it looks, will it fit a large maccas coke and if they can connect their ipod to it.

my dad went from XR6T to a VW and vowed never to go back to a falcon regardless what they put out. Driving his "euro" makes him feel special, and hes already eyeing off his next purchase........ a $70,000 Mercedes Diesel

[In Focus]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I wonder how many of these people have tried fitting a pram and the weekly shopping into a Mazda 3...

All fits into my Focus easily. Then again, I only have the one kid.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah, I think Ford's marketing is getting a little scott-free over all this. Ford and Holden to an extent have forgotten how to sell their large cars.

Holden put its money where its mouth is, and came out with a sportswagon. Sedan dynamics, hatch/wagon practicality. What did Ford do? Get out of that game altogether.

If I genuinely need the rear space to justify a large car, why would I even bother with the sedan?