KIA Builds a RWD V8 Sedan

[93EB_SXR6]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Yep, they're quite nice cars, especially the i45 and the Kia Optima/Sportage/Sorento.

If it was the same price over here, $58,000, that puts it into entry level FPV prices, fair for what you get.

What I don't understand is why people pay upwards of $50,000 for a Taxi branded with a "performance" logo complete with plastic dash, crappy "premium" stereo, some different seats and and a big engine.

The entire FPV lineup isn't anything special for the price you pay.

The HARSH truth.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Professor_Evans

The HARSH truth.

Please explain how you compare a "luxury" sedan to a performance car? Even though the F6 still kills it? As a matter of fact dont, because you cant compare them they are in different markets. Price doesnt rule all.

This car would be against the likes of the G6ET, Calais V, Merc 200 C CGI, Nissan Maxima, and a host of others I cant think of right now.

edit: anf if your going to play the V8 card then I am sure you could get a 300C for that price aswell.

The only people that will be impressed with this car is fellow Hyundai owners..although most will think bah, I could have got two i45's for that.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Please explain how you compare a "luxury" sedan to a performance car? Even though the F6 still kills it? As a matter of fact dont, because you cant compare them they are in different markets. Price doesnt rule all.

This car would be against the likes of the G6ET, Calais V, Merc 200 C CGI, Nissan Maxima, and a host of others I cant think of right now.

edit: anf if your going to play the V8 card then I am sure you could get a 300C for that price aswell.

So true.

I'd prefer a v8 300c. You can get them new for 50k driveaway.
I have heard of someone getting it for 46k driveaway!
That is a lot of car for the money.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

A few years back, Holden started selling the statesman as a Daewoo Veritas in South Korea. The expected market at the time was around 5000 cars. Unfortunately, quite alot had to be sold way way way below cost.

I go to South Korea often. I had a bit of a 'What tha' moment when I saw this....



Only saw 3-4 in the month I was there. I spent a lot of time travelling between cities on the freeway so I had plenty of opportunity to see more.

Don't think they were re-badged or re-named by the looks of that picture.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Yep, they're quite nice cars, especially the i45 and the Kia Optima/Sportage/Sorento.

If it was the same price over here, $58,000, that puts it into entry level FPV prices, fair for what you get.

What I don't understand is why people pay upwards of $50,000 for a Taxi branded with a "performance" logo complete with plastic dash, crappy "premium" stereo, some different seats and and a big engine.

The entire FPV lineup isn't anything special for the price you pay.

Im not a fan of the falcon much anymore but i draw the line there, im not a fan of this car either i reckon its hideous. I dont know what it would be like mechanically though.
Looks alone id buy a GT over that

[Poetic Justice]

Specs aside; if you can say that this car is ugly:



..then I think you have issues.

Now, keep in mind that this thread is relative to Kia releasing its own version of the Genesis/Equus large cars at Hyundai.

With that said, if you apply the luxury kit and powertrains the Hyundai vehicles provide, and it follows the design principle seen with the new generation Optima... I can only be a little excited personally.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Specs aside; if you can say that this car is ugly:



..then I think you have issues.

It's the badge that's the problem IMO. Remove the brand and show that to 100 people prior to release and my guess is very few indeed would say it is Korean in origin.

My guess would have been Lexus personally.

[Polyal]

It looks better than a lexus on the outside..LOL

No part of me is ashamed to say the new Kia range is generally ok.

But once you go over $50-55k you get into some fierce territory...and it kind of defeats the purpose of buying a cheaper brand. Im sure more people would be seen in a base spec Merc than a top spec Hyundai/Kia

[kinksta]

Gotta admit the Hundy's and the Kia's are decent looking cars now to what they were..by a long shot! And slowly they are getting decent engines. I'd rather a big Infiniti but the big Equus isn't too bad. If I got one for free, no doubt I would love it!

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Polyal

It looks better than a lexus on the outside..LOL

No part of me is ashamed to say the new Kia range is generally ok.

But once you go over $50-55k you get into some fierce territory...and it kind of defeats the purpose of buying a cheaper brand. Im sure more people would be seen in a base spec Merc than a top spec Hyundai/Kia

I believe that's where you have your head in the sand.

In the past, they were the 'cheaper' brand. They (Hyundai in particular) are now shaking that tag - for instance removing the Getz shortly, introducing the 'i' name plate system for their models and generally bringing far superior products than they once offered.

Take a drive to a Hyundai dealership and start talking pricing with them. You'll soon find they are not the 'cheap' dealer you once thought of.

The sooner you realise that these manufacturers are on the way up, and far removed from the ****** brands they once were. ****** being the aesthetic design of the vehicles (you yourself acknowledged has improved), the fact they put massive amounts of R&D into the vehicles compared to yesteryear, build their vehicles with their own engines etc (as opposed to Mitsu engines they used to buy) etc etc.

Once you realise this, you'll see how much Ford and other marques could potentially be in danger of this fierce competition.

This revitalization of the 'cheaper' brands is only its in early stages. There is far more to come I feel.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by SCUD

I believe that's where you have your head in the sand.

In the past, they were the 'cheaper' brand. They (Hyundai in particular) are now shaking that tag - for instance removing the Getz shortly, introducing the 'i' name plate system for their models and generally bringing far superior products than they once offered.

Take a drive to a Hyundai dealership and start talking pricing with them. You'll soon find they are not the 'cheap' dealer you once thought of.

The sooner you realise that these manufacturers are on the way up, and far removed from the ****** brands they once were. ****** being the aesthetic design of the vehicles (you yourself acknowledged has improved), the fact they put massive amounts of R&D into the vehicles compared to yesteryear, build their vehicles with their own engines etc (as opposed to Mitsu engines they used to buy) etc etc.

Once you realise this, you'll see how much Ford and other marques could potentially be in danger of this fierce competition.

This revitalization of the 'cheaper' brands is only its in early stages. There is far more to come I feel.

Stigma's take alot more than fancy names to remove.

Im hardly bagging them out, but compared to others who are established then they are not going to win people over in an instant.

The analogy of the Japanese car makers is exactly the same for these guys. But for the time being these cars read well on paper, but dont match the expectations in the real world once they are tested.

Agreed this will change but until then they will cop flack. The 300C example is just one, given the 300C is not perfect but it would be a very small % that go the Hyundai over the Chrysler when looking for luxury and a statement.

The rising of these brands is good for the industry, we are seeing Ford going through a product boom now and continuing, this isn't a direct result of Hyund/Kia but a realization that consumers demand more and the companies need to shape up financially.

[Poetic Justice]

i30 is outselling any Ford product currently on the market.

Not to mention Hyundai have overtaken Ford for 3rd position last month.

Hmmmm..... stigma, yes..

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by SCUD

i30 is outselling any Ford product currently on the market.

Not to mention Hyundai have overtaken Ford for 3rd position last month.

Hmmmm..... stigma, yes..

Ah good for you picking the point that the topic is not about....thought we were talking about luxury cars and not segments primarily driven by price?

[Poetic Justice]

I was responding to your point!

I've made my points about the vehicle. Now you're deflecting because I exposed a weakness to your post.

In any case, I restate my case. If the Kia large car offers a RWD V8 in the Australian market and is similar in design/looks to the new generation Optima, it should do well. It will start slow, but if marketed will certainly gain traction!

[Polyal]

I didnt say that they were not changing as a brand, but its AFAIK these cars are selling in good numbers because they are appointed well enough and hit the right price point. People seem less worried about overall driving performance and quality when you look at whats selling. As long as it looks ok, returns decent fuel economy and doesn't cost much in comparison then it sells. The mazda 3 and the i30 for example arte not an overly great cars, they just do well and most things.

So its fair to say that Hyundai/Kia's advantage at the moment is cost. So when cost is less of a concern the consumer focuses on quality.

The i30 is a focus competitor I assume? Whats the RRP difference?

[Poetic Justice]

Focus $21,990+
i30 $19,390+
Mazda 3 $21,330+
Corolla $20,990+

All entry level hatch manuals.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I go to South Korea often. I had a bit of a 'What tha' moment when I saw this....
Only saw 3-4 in the month I was there. I spent a lot of time travelling between cities on the freeway so I had plenty of opportunity to see more.

Don't think they were re-badged or re-named by the looks of that picture.

Mmm yes, very suprised to see the Holden badge still on the back. But if you only knew the amount of quality issues they had with the car, then it might have just been a case that some operater at elizabeth slapped the wrong badge on the back of the car lol.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Focus $21,990+
i30 $19,390+
Mazda 3 $21,330+
Corolla $20,990+

All entry level hatch manuals.

I dont think we would have the data but it would be interesting to see if the base model is the main seller. As far as private sales go, I dont know many people who buy base spec, usually mid. But still, seems the segment is very tight.

I dont disagree that this price range is tight, and Hyundai (and Mazda, although they have been doing well for a while) seem to being doing well, cant argue with the sales numbers; but I still think they will struggle in the upper parts of the market.

They are also doing well IMO because people have tightened their belts a bit, the Gov will have us believe the economy is going fine but if people can save a few bob then they will and perhaps its becoming hard to justify the extra cost for better cars (when lets face it, they are used as glorified shopping trolleys generally).

What do you attribute the sales too? Being in the business you would hear first hand I guess.

[Poetic Justice]

The problem with discussing vehicles on an enthusiast forum is that there is far too much emotion associated with it.

What you need to understand is the vast majority of the market do not usually buy with a great deal of emotion. They want a good product at a good price. I haven't actually driven an i30, but all the people who tell me they have say they love it.

Even the Mazda 3... Corolla is losing business to. If I have a customer who comes in to me, test drives a Corolla and says, "I'd like to go look at the Mazda 3 before I make my decision" then I could almost wager a big sum of money on the fact that person is not going to return.

Perception is everything really - hence why the Toyota product is so successful. Whilst it may be bland in some models (some Toyota models are great, truly.) their quality and reliability is indisputable. Widely advertised capped service product is working, as is the general resale values of Toyota vehicles being a strong point.

At the end of the day, the product is paramount. People will pay for a product they like. It just so happens to be, that if some enthusiasts open their second eye, they must just see that some of the products coming out of manufacturers that were once vehicles for the peasants are in fact damn good vehicles.

Your point regarding the "choose the lower product" because you can save a few bob is right actually. We lose alot of Hilux business to Nissan Navara - but let there be a caution with that mindset. There's a reason, in most cases, for a vehicle to be 'drastically' cheaper to what you'd normally by and eventually you'll notice it. Quite a large number of those we lose to Nissan Navara inevitably end up back at the dealership 18-24 months later to trade it for a Hilux for whatever reason.

[No.6]

Hyundai? Kia? LOL.

sorry but i still have memories of done up little excels with massive exhausts and doof doof music in my teenage years.

But i have to say, there is a little bit of improvement in the looks department with the latest hyundai...the i45 or something? or i30 i dont know which one. Take me as your everyday consumer that knows jack all about cars, but enough to know that hyundai, kia, daewoo and other such brands are cars you DONT buy if you wanna be cool.

If i were to buy a car for my mum however, hyundai, kia, toyota would be the first places id go due to the perceived assumption that they are small, economical cars and cheap to maintain.

[Poetic Justice]

Again that's the perception which Hyundai/Kia need to battle, but rest assured that you'd be impressed if you were to blindly sit in and experience something like the i45 or the new Kia Optima without being told what company built the vehicles.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Yep, they're quite nice cars, especially the i45 and the Kia Optima/Sportage/Sorento.

If it was the same price over here, $58,000, that puts it into entry level FPV prices, fair for what you get.

What I don't understand is why people pay upwards of $50,000 for a Taxi branded with a "performance" logo complete with plastic dash, crappy "premium" stereo, some different seats and and a big engine.

The entire FPV lineup isn't anything special for the price you pay.

thats a matter of opinion, i could say the same thing about the focus, or a z4 or many other cars, if it makes the bloke that just parted with his cash feel good thats what its all about, 99% of cars these days have a plastic dash? as for the logo, you don`t like the fact its advertising its model? the fpv`s are big fast all purpose family sports sedans......... whats not to like.

[bobthebilda]

Take me as your everyday consumer that knows jack all about cars, but enough to know that hyundai, kia, daewoo and other such brands are cars you DONT buy if you wanna be cool.

Originally Posted by SCUD

Again that's the perception which Hyundai/Kia need to battle, but rest assured that you'd be impressed if you were to blindly sit in and experience something like the i45 or the new Kia Optima without being told what company built the vehicles.

I think I could honestly say, There is not a car company in the world, that is trying to counteract No.6's lack of COOLness. There maybe some pimple cream makers, and "socks to stuff down your jocks" makers, but no car makers..

[Franco Cozzo]

Yes the FPV lineup is considered "great" when it comes to performance (the F6 is off tap, same with the new GS/GT) but to me, the package is more than just how fast it goes and awesome it sounds, if I wanted a real fast car that sounded awesome, I wouldn't have my TDCI Focus that sounds like a tin full of bolts being shaken up and down and falls off its massive torque band at 2800 RPM. My car generally doesn't see above 2000 RPM, lol.

I'd probably have something that fit in my $26,000 budget at the time I bought the Focus earlier this year (about a year ago when I had the Fiesta I mentioned selling it and getting a JZA80 Supra, LOL)

These days its about safety (had a big accident), gizmos, good interior quality, like soft touch dash, nice stereo, fuel economy, etc. I don't take my cars to the track, I drive a bit over 500km a week just to and from work driving like grandma.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Polyal

What do you attribute the sales too? Being in the business you would hear first hand I guess.

I'm not in 'the business' but my family do go though a few cars. In the past 4 years we have got a new or near new Toyota, Citroen, Ford and Hyundai.

Price does come into it for sure. But you cannot baulk at the great discount over the competition the Koreans have.

Then there is customer satisfaction. In my personal experience first was Hyundai, second Toyota, a long 3rd was Ford and 4th was Citroen.

Hyundai went out of their way to accommodate and help my mum (who knows bugger all about cars) with both servicing and warranty work. I told her to call me if they gave her any grief or try to swamp her with masculine mechanical talk. She never called.

What do you think she says about Hyundai to her family and friends??

Toyota... not tooo bad. Did most warranty work without fuss on my brothers new Hilux but their customer service wasn't the best and some arguing was needed to get things done.

My sister was charged several hundred dollars for a minor service on her new Echo. When I looked at the invoice there was new front pads installed (that I had just changed 3 months prior myself) and $80 for a wheel rotation. After a stern 'please explain' call it was all sorted out of course. Somehow it was an oversight that had never happened before.

My brother will 'perhaps consider' a Toyota utility for his business come time to update. My sister sold the Echo soon after and bought an Audi.

Ford... Welll after my last experience the only way I will set foot in a Ford dealership to buy is with a team of contractual lawyers, a polygraph machine and a voice recorder. Now, I don't have any lawyers in my family and don't own a polygraph machine.

Why are the sales good?? They seem to know how to keep customers happy (and other brands seem to know how to lose customers by treating them like idiots). I know people will say that this is only 1 persons experience but from the many people I talk to there seems to be a trend that reflects my own experiences.

So, we have price and customer satisfaction.

People now look at COTY info and comparisons. Hyundai seems to also be doing very well in that department.

Then we have warranty. Kia / Hyundai offer a great warranty on their products. It shows that they have faith in what they sell and this of course will steal more sales from the 3yr / 100km mob.

So.... Great sales stem from a low cost, durable product that appeals to the masses bought by happy customers. Who would have thought??

Regarding the start of this thread. Say Kia bought out a large RWD car with V6 and V8 / diesel / LPG and hybrid engines. They were built to the standards (or better) that we are seeing now from Korea. They are styled similar to the design cues we are seeing in the new batch of cars out of Korea. They offer the same or better performance and economy offered by the local lineup and have the usual or better options and gadgets for a similar price to the local boys.

Do you think this will generate sales?? Well, looking at past then yes.

What if this sticker was found on our Kia showroom windows?



That was taken some 2 weeks ago in Malta. Yes, 7 year factory warranty. I don't know the T&C but I wonder if we will see it here?

Those that don't know, Malta's roads are very harsh. Cars there have accelerated wear and tear from 100% stop start 'city' driving. There are no hwy's to speak of and the highest speed limit I found was 80km/h.

Good luck to them IMO. They are making money when many aren't.

Cheers.

[THE CADBURY KID]

Bit off topic but the 7 year warranty that kia offer would be the same as the tripe that mitsubishi dish out(not worth the paper its written on)
And i think that every brand of car should have a v8 to brag about,if they have the balls to step up let them have a fair crack.

[Phonic]

Not long ago, the CEO of Honda was asked who they thought was going to be up comming competition, he responded by saying they are worried about the rapid rise of Hyundai....

[dogfish]

What we all seem to forget is that Ford and Holden really don't have much head room to reduce their price where as Kia/Hyundai would probably be able to reduce their price quite dramatically simply due to their production costs and the fact they basically make everything for their vehicles and Hyundai are fairly big in Heavy Industries i.e excavators etc.

[93EB_SXR6]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Please explain how you compare a "luxury" sedan to a performance car? Even though the F6 still kills it? As a matter of fact dont, because you cant compare them they are in different markets. Price doesnt rule all.

This car would be against the likes of the G6ET, Calais V, Merc 200 C CGI, Nissan Maxima, and a host of others I cant think of right now.

edit: anf if your going to play the V8 card then I am sure you could get a 300C for that price aswell.

The only people that will be impressed with this car is fellow Hyundai owners..although most will think bah, I could have got two i45's for that.

Sorry, I wasn't saying this ugly Korean thing was as good as an FPV.
I was more agreeing that FoA need to do more to make their performance vehicles truly impressive.
I'm not saying a GT-P isn't impressive, but a lot of people don't know what they are.
Whereas every dog and his man knows what a Clubsport is.

[kpcart]

Originally Posted by Polyal

LOL ...wow

Let me see...a F6 or a wanna be Mercedes that looks like butt...hmm

you mean a crap aussie car or a great car? thats another way of looking at it. just shut your mouth already, that hyundai is a good car, and has a higher tech engine then the ford. yes we all like fords, but can you look at things like this without your dellusional one sided viewpoint.