Should the Falcon I4T have a different name / look different?

[TUF_302]

I think it should just be badge as, FALCON 4, or XT 4, at least something like that, i think this is a good move personally, i mean i would never get one for myself,im all about the I6 and v8s but im pretty sure alot of people out there would like a Falcon but with the option of a smaller motor

[4dlvr]

oh he also told me there's going to be a xr4 turbo model???

[Raptor]

Hasn't the last decade or so seen the Falcon/Futura/Fairmont/Fairmont Ghia range being replaced by a single Falcon name (with variants) to strengthen the Falcon brand. To split out the 4cyl would seem strange given that recent history.

As long as the engine is in the front pointing to the driven rear wheels (ie. N-S engine layout and RWD) I'm ok if they use the Falcon name. If they try rebadging a FWD Taurus/Modeo or whatever as a Falcon then they have lost the plot and will lose the market IMHO.

[Nikked]

Falcon XT Turbo

[Luke Plaizier]

So, does that mean that the Camry/Aurion exercise diminishes their brand, or that not calling the Territory an AWD Falcon diminishes the Territory?

And that jacking up a Holden Commodore Wagon and putting AWD under it was a raging success?


Lukeyson

[Dave_au]

My name suggestions:

Falrus
Taurcon
Falry
Camcon

Or Ford Falcon Euro.

In all honesty I don't think they should differentiate, and just call it a Falcon.

[alter_EGOXR]

Originally Posted by 4dlvr

i herd from a ford dealer today that because the 4cyl motor is so much smaller then the current i6, the 4cyl motor is going to be in the boot instead of the bonnet.. so as for appearance differences the bonnet is going to have a mini rear style spoiler on it which will be used as a handle to lift the bonnet/boot up, and will slightly decrease air resistance..

doesnt make sense......why would they stick it in the boot...... :

[Bossxr8]

I think just keep it a Falcon but call them XT4, G4, G4E. (Or should that be G4E Turbo). Definately do not have an XR4 Turbo, that would be ghey.

Differentiating them just wastes more money. To be honest this car is going to be more of a fleet model than anything.

[FordMan101]

I think it should look nasty and horrible, an I4 is wrong in a falcon.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

So, does that mean that the Camry/Aurion exercise diminishes their brand, or that not calling the Territory an AWD Falcon diminishes the Territory?

And that jacking up a Holden Commodore Wagon and putting AWD under it was a raging success?


Lukeyson

Well one look at current Camaurion sales tells you where that little experiment is heading. Although I think that is more to do with plain out and out blandness and the fact that a FWD V6 is ghey.

And I don't think the Territory/Falcon comparison is valid because they are hugely different cars designed to appeal to different market segments. Holden tried it a different way and failed is the difference. Not that I have anything against the Adventra, I'm a fan of them.

Just give the I4 Falcon a plain 'Falcon' badge with the Ecoboost badge next to it.

The only other thing I can see is that if the I4 Falcon was given unique front and rear styling with some interior differences, with the front and rear overhangs shortened (more than likely out of the question because the E8/Orion platform architecture probably wasn't designed for this) and made LHD to amortise the R&D costs across more than 1 market, will this sort of car get up and fly. It could be badged as a Lincoln and sold in Europe for example.

[pottery beige]

13" rims.. and sunbird badges...

[malazn mafia]

Bring back the 'corty: i4t FORD CORTINA :

[Windsor220]

Call it the GTHO :

[Falc'man]

Foured!!! :sm_headba

[4dlvr]

Originally Posted by hemank

doesnt make sense......why would they stick it in the boot...... :

to gain less of a drive train loss, thus more power to the wheels and the obvious more efficient..
it will also handle better with less weight on the front tires..

[KPOJ]

Originally Posted by 4dlvr

to gain less of a drive train loss, thus more power to the wheels and the obvious more efficient..
it will also handle better with less weight on the front tires..

Wow you got all that info from a dealer, ask him he can score me a trans axle , ill do some free testing for him.

[4dlvr]

yeh no worries, will do..

[rodderz]

Imagine the flame wars on the forums in a couple of years between the fourbie owners and the I6 drivers. It's already been WW3 a couple of times with I6T vs V8, with this in there as well it will be a tight 3-way

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Imagine the flame wars on the forums in a couple of years between the fourbie owners and the I6 drivers. It's already been WW3 a couple of times with I6T vs V8, with this in there as well it will be a tight 3-way

After defeating the I6 owners in every argument, they'll argue amongst themselves about who the best tuner is on fordxr4turbo.com.au?

[Luke Plaizier]

The V8 guys like the 4's so much they just put two if them in their cars....

If a 2-litre Turbo 4 is good for at least 170kW in production, why isn't the 4-Litre 6 currently doing at least 340kW?

Does this mean an Ecobost 5-Litre Coyote is going to be good for at least 425kW?


Lukeyson

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

The V8 guys like the 4's so much they just put two if them in their cars....

If a 2-litre Turbo 4 is good for at least 170kW in production, why isn't the 4-Litre 6 currently doing at least 340kW?

Does this mean an Ecobost 5-Litre Coyote is going to be good for at least 425kW?


Lukeyson

Turbo 6 IS currently doing 340kw Lukeyson.
It's just that FPV badge it "F6 310" so they don't upset GT owners...

[Polyal]

I dont see why you would make anything different.

You should be able to option any engine you want on any car then change a small badge on the fender or rear to suit.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

So, does that mean that the Camry/Aurion exercise diminishes their brand, or that not calling the Territory an AWD Falcon diminishes the Territory?

And that jacking up a Holden Commodore Wagon and putting AWD under it was a raging success?

Lukeyson

No, just different strategies for different times/markets.
I think the question you have posed is a good one.

I suspect the Toyota buyers are there to buy a Toyota and many probably don't even know or care what badge comes after that (whitegoods of the automotive kind).

Whereas Falcon shoppers are looking for a Falcon/Commodore type vehicle not just a Ford or Holden badge (ie. largish/rugged/dependable image with front-engine and RWD offering value for money).

The Territory was deliberately seperated from the Falcon both in appearance and name. It's business case aims were;

• win back family car buyers that had gone to 4wd's for the space and functionality but had since realised they were not prepared to live with or didn't require the compromises in driveablity that came with it.
• offer a more appealing alternative to the mini-bus/peoplemover crowd for those requiring the occasional 7-seater capacity
• add volume and parts/platform sharing to the aust. production lines

It was never to just offer an AWD Falcon.

It's the space/functionality/usability that the Territory delivered on but the Adventura did not, being no different than any other Commodore wagon apart from the AWD. Thus one survives in the market whilst the other does not.

[Luke Plaizier]

It's curious that in a number of demonstrated cases to date, the differentiation of a single manufactured item into separate marketable products has resulted in more sales than simply branding the item as a single product with options.

But the consensus here is definitely towards keeping the Falcon name and just whacking the I4 engine in.

Before the Territory was released, I also recall people here wanting the new product to just be a 4WD Falcon - which is what Holden did and failed. The Falcon has never even come close to having 4WD. So history suggests that AFF is perhaps not the best measure of a successful business or marketting venture.

But still, the majority has spoken!


Lukeyson

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by Raptor

It's the space/functionality/usability that the Territory delivered on but the Adventura did not, being no different than any other Commodore wagon apart from the AWD. Thus one survives in the market whilst the other does not.

What functionality did a Territory offer that an Adventra did not? The Territory really is just a jacked up falcon in every way other than the shape of the body. Just about every major component is interchangeable between the Falcon and the Territory. but you're right in that it wasn't marketted that way. Are you referring to the multitude of storage compartments in the Territory? Some comparisons even rated the Adventra as better off-road. I'm not sure how Adventra was inferior, really, in anything other than perhaps build quality, product positioning and it's marketting - which is unusual for Holden.

I agree with you regarding Ford and Territory trying to win back customers who were moving into Soft Roaders. By building what looked to customers to be a purpose-built soft roader, and not a jacked up 4WD Falcon, even though in essence it was, they were able to successfully target those customers who wouldn't consider a jacked-up-Falcon as a genuine soft-roader. History shows that the market research on Territory was excellent - even if the model update cycle has been poor, or the Diesel that is always 2 years away no matter when you ask.

So for customers now wanting to move into smaller, fuel efficient cars - I see a similar argument. It's undoubtedly going to be difficult to brand a Falcon as a mid-size car - but not impossible. Toyota have shown it can be done. A Falcon-4-by-a-different-name would target Customers who have it in their head that a Falcon or Territory is a gas guzzler - something the media has worked hard at over the last few years to convey, and why nobody realised how fuel efficient they really were until recently when Ford did the 9.9L/100 / LPG Toyota comparisons.

I just hope that Ford does their 4-Cyl falcon research well, and they don't fall into the same 'built for fleet sales' zero-market-research blunder that was the AU. I think it's a great opportunity to have a 'psuedo' new model on the product line to satisfy everything that the media thought they would get with the Focus, with only changes to front and rear plastics, lights (and perhaps some panels), built with worldwide engines, exportable into other countries, differentiated simply by it's RWD platform.


Lukeyson

[388cube_edxr8]

I like the idea of walking into a dealer and
"Hello I'd like to buy a Falcon"
"Certainly sir, would you like the I4T, I6, I6T or V8?"

Of course me being me, I would love an XR12TT, i.e. 2 I6Ts glued together at the crank. 8 liters of aussie muscle.

[Ducati888]

This 4 cylinder Falc concept will fail.

Who recalls the raging success of the 'fleet oriented & economical" 3.2L I6 EA Falc? Or for that matter the previous 3.3L in the X series.

Now who remembers how long they lasted?

I see this in the same way. The 4 cylinder Falcon will be as well accepted as those were. Oldies who want a 4 cylinder car will still buy Camrys, not Falcons.

Falcon and Commodore buyers are parochial and will not stand for it, I tell you. They are seen as large, rear wheel drive cars for towing boats, and that's it. You can't tow a big boat with a 4 cylinder car.

The only way forward is to put in a high torque diesel and concentrate on improving build quality and reputation. Oh, and fire the current PR people and get some of the Holden ones in.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Falcon and Commodore buyers are parochial and will not stand for it, I tell you.

Fleets aren't parochial, all they care about is capital outlay and tailpipe emissions.

[Spitfire 6.2]

Its probably been mentioned already but, how many kW is this I4T engine going to produce?

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

Turbo 6 IS currently doing 340kw Lukeyson.
It's just that FPV badge it "F6 310" so they don't upset GT owners...

Can't believe I haven't got a reply to this one yet...come on !!!