driving lights = 3points

[Sourbastard]

ive seen people done for driving lights here in SA. I think it doesnt matter for most cops, if they want to write you a ticket the lights fitted on your car will be referred to as anything from fog lights to swamp gas depending on what the legislation reads.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by XR_Strider_GuY

Ok Guys,

So what sort of lights are in the front bar of my XR BA/BF?? (Which has a switchable on/off and are connected when the parkers/headlights are on).

Are these driving lights or fog lights? Will I get the demerit points if I have them on. Reason for asking is that I actually have seen XRs with these on and they don't dazzle me they seem fairly harmless. However I am more and more not using them as they seem to be percieved as "ricer lights" or "showoff lights" and the public seem to frown upon these.

From what I know the real fog lights (aftermarket models like PIAA) are very intense and actually take a while to get to their brightest intensity. These actually work in fog and agree they will annoy on comming drivers. The low level lights in the bar of the XR Falcon are just extra lights that so far as I can see give a more spread of light.

Value everyones thoughts...

This is my argument too. I have had them referred to as "daytime running lights" and "fog lights" and also "driving lights", so which is it? Either way, I have driven past cops with them on, some flick theirs on and off to signal me to turn them off, others don't care. I dont think they are dazzling or too bright though and I would think that if they were, that would come back to ADR's and Ford would have to modify the design.

[Matt P]

The answer is really simple if there is no fog don't have em on.

[imugli]

Originally Posted by Matt P

The answer is really simple if there is no fog don't have em on.

Agreed.

[flappist]

Driving lights should only come on when you are on high beam, if the lights are on with just the parkers engaged (a.k.a. uber kewl fully sic maaate mode) then they are either fog lights or illegally wired.

It is quite amusing when driving on foggy mornings to note that the majority of commodores and falcons I see that actually have fog lights don't use them.

After all, what is the point of ultra fully sic posing if no one can see you because of the fog.......

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by 2.8L Hilux

I wonder if i'd get booked for my cornering lamps being on in the fairmont. I have them wired so they are on with the low beams.

The thing is, they only use a 16W bulb. If I tried to drive with just the cornering lamps then I'd be driving blind. They throw out absolutely no light, they just look good.

Do you's think I'd still get booked?

Yes, but your car is then defected,because ADR'ed CORNERING LAMPS are NOT-THE-SAME as front fog lamps, OR, DRL's; - "Daytime Running Lamps", and each function has differing wiring and light output/beam requirements. Put them back as they were, If you doubt me I can arrange a vehicle inspection for you locally:-)
There is NO 16watt bulb, your Ford-modded lamp, if you went down that path; - should bear a 21watt bulb. 5watt IF the lamp was unmodded.

The cornering lamp "beam pattern", and therefore wiring requirement is different, it basically shoots a torch-like beam of light diagonally into on coming traffic, the glare or distraction they see is noticed on approach to your car at approx 45-65degrees.

Originally Posted by XR_Strider_GuY

Ok Guys,

So what sort of lights are in the front bar of my XR BA/BF?? (Which has a switchable on/off and are connected when the parkers/headlights are on).

Are these driving lights or fog lights?

See my post here RE ISO SYMBOLS ENFORCERS can also tell SIMPLY by LOOKING AT THE LENS MARKINGS. Fog = "B", eg 02B.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...78&postcount=4

Will I get the demerit points if I have them on.

In NSW yes, 2 currently.

Reason for asking is that I actually have seen XRs with these on and they don't dazzle me they seem fairly harmless.

Subjective comparison; its other traffic that notices, either as additional glare or simply DISTRACTION. The RULE simply RESTRICTS FRONT FOG LIGHTS TO THEIR "EXACT" DESIGNED INTENTION.

From what I know the real fog lights (aftermarket models like PIAA) are very intense and actually take a while to get to their brightest intensity.

They are ILLEGAL if bearing bulbs exceeding 12v/55watts, and lamp-wise IF the lens does not carry E marking per above.

How many times do people bring this up? Even those who have been through the topic numerous times before, it really is exceedingly simple.

Can't get this stuff comprehended, reckon we should raise speed-limits? Sheesh.

[imugli]

Originally Posted by XR_Strider_GuY

Ok Guys,

So what sort of lights are in the front bar of my XR BA/BF?? (Which has a switchable on/off and are connected when the parkers/headlights are on).

Are these driving lights or fog lights? Will I get the demerit points if I have them on. Reason for asking is that I actually have seen XRs with these on and they don't dazzle me they seem fairly harmless. However I am more and more not using them as they seem to be percieved as "ricer lights" or "showoff lights" and the public seem to frown upon these.

From what I know the real fog lights (aftermarket models like PIAA) are very intense and actually take a while to get to their brightest intensity. These actually work in fog and agree they will annoy on comming drivers. The low level lights in the bar of the XR Falcon are just extra lights that so far as I can see give a more spread of light.

Value everyones thoughts...

Going on VicRoads, they'd be Fog Lights. Focused beam, switchable when the main beam lights are on.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Subjective comparison, its other traffic that notices, either as additional glare or simply DISTRACTION. The RULE simply RESTRICTS FRONT FOG LIGHTS TO THEIR "EXACT" DESIGNED INTENTION.

Ill make this clear from the start so noone can accuse me of bias. I don't even have driving/fog/sleet/snow/mist/jesus/OMG/WTF/BBQ lights on any of my cars.

However, if a driver is distracted by two relatively dim extra lights in oncoming traffic, they shouldn't even be on the bloody road. The "extra glare" from a set of driving lights is nothing when compared to driving on a highway with a tarted up Prado heading in the other direction with ultra white globes at eye level.

The whole thing is just something easy to be beaten up on and taxed.

[Keepleft]

Are you blind imugli? See above post - LOOK at the ISO switch symbols and provided link, but yes they are fog.

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Ill make this clear from the start so noone can accuse me of bias. I don't even have driving/fog/sleet/snow/mist/jesus/OMG/WTF/BBQ lights on any of my cars.

However, if a driver is distracted by two relatively dim extra lights in oncoming traffic, they shouldn't even be on the bloody road. The "extra glare" from a set of driving lights is nothing when compared to driving on a highway with a tarted up Prado heading in the other direction with ultra white globes at eye level.

The whole thing is just something easy to be beaten up on and taxed.

It is simply about using a lamp for its SPECIFIC, ENGINEER DESIGNED "function". Our law is exactly the same LAW that RESULTS IN THE SAME TUITION on the matter - all over the world, including Germany.

IMAGINE SOUR if we then had our CORNERING LAMPS on FULLTIME (if fitted), THEN DRL's, FRONT FOG LAMPS, and LOW-BEAMS?!!

How useless are we in this big land???

[jcxr]

Originally Posted by imugli

VicRoads decription of both mentions nothing of colour but does clarify re Driving Lights and high beam...



Either way, it's pretty clear. Unless in Fog or Hazardous conditions, fog lights shouldn't be used and driving lights should only activate when your high beams are active.

Then why arent they wired ex factory into the high beam switch? I havent had a look in the handbook but what does Ford say they are, fog or driving?

[ebxr8240]

It comes down to the intensity of the light and its reflective section..
To me there are three types Fog which are low watts around 50 watt and don't glare at you. If they did the light hits the fog and you cannot see through it as it reflects the light back at you!!
..
Then there's high beam driving lights..These should be connected to high beam and turn off when lights are dipped.. There cut off reflector is further back from globe which gives a narrow pencil type beam..

The other is day driving lights.. like they use in some countries like Canada where it's illegal to drive without these lights on from vehicles made after 2000.. They are around 20 watt about 35mm in diameter attached beside normal lights..
To me the lights they should pick on are DRVING lights with over 50 watt globes..
Yes there is the boy racer / ricer who has his lights on ..
Some are modified into driving lights which imo is illegal if they dont turn OFF with high beam..
When I drive interstate I always put my low beams on as its far more visible..
In my WRX it has fog lights under bumper which I turn on..
These are possibly the ones they will be looking for.. Trouble is they won't glare your eyes.. But due to some idiots out there who have modified them ..
I guess we all get caught in using them as some have over done there use....
Some modern lights can blind you if your NOT expecting them..
But I would rather have seen the light [so to speak] than seen a vehicle too late..
I don't mean 250 watt driving lights though !!

[Keepleft]

EBXRmod -
"To you" in assumption/presumption/ideals - doesn't cut it at enforceable law.

Read what I posted, I hate being a parrot.

Your FRONT FOGS have a forward reach, typically of 10-35metres - out to 50m max, and will typically also bear a wide, hand-fan shaped beam-pattern. Despite perverted fantasy's to the contrary, will NOT help you at night on country roads where your eyes NEED to see, the range 200m+

Here, the 'distraction' factor plays into the game, stuff issues of glare.

Adding additional foreground white light (front fogs) simply restricts the eyes ability to see the small objects at distances of 200m plus.

A 'driving lamp' only operates on high-beam WHEN the high beam switch itself is activated.

FRONT FOGS ARE IDEAL HOWEVER; under "hideous weather conditions causing seriously reduced visibility", especially in falling snow et al. BEST then if your low-beam headlights are off too (reduces masking of front indicator) AND YOUR SPEED WILL, BY DRIVING NECESSITY - BE REDUCED.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Are you blind imugli? See above post - LOOK at the ISO switch symbols and provided link, but yes they are fog.


It is simply about using a lamp for its SPECIFIC, ENGINEER DESIGNED "function". Our law is exactly the same LAW that RESULTS IN THE SAME TUITION on the matter - all over the world, including Germany.

IMAGINE SOUR if we then had our CORNERING LAMPS on FULLTIME (if fitted), THEN DRL's, FRONT FOG LAMPS, and LOW-BEAMS?!!

How useless are we in this big land???

I'm imaging now. I just cant share in your hysteria. I try, but nothing happens.

They are a couple of tiny dim lights at the bottom of a spoiler, if this was truely worthwhile, where are the statistics that backup death by globe?

We have statistics on speed, hoons, bikies, low flying goats and every other flavour of hysteria, where are the death by illumination stats?

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

I'm imaging now. I just cant share in your hysteria. I try, but nothing happens.

They are a couple of tiny dim lights at the bottom of a spoiler, if this was truly worthwhile, where are the statistics that backup death by globe?

We have statistics on speed, hoons, bikies, low flying goats and every other flavour of hysteria, where are the death by illumination stats?

Your imagination is lacking then. The speed thing is overdone, 'speed-related' might represent say 40%, but exceed speed as the initiating cause <7% IF you believe those rotten POMS.

If I play it your way SB, let me ask you;-
# Where are the stats to say that my not indicating lane changes causes crashes and trauma?

# Where are the stats that say not indicating when pulling out from the kerb causes crashes and trauma?

# Where are the stats to say why I should not drive routinely in the right-hand lane, at or just below its speed-limit (for safety:-) on freeways or similar?

# Where are the stats that say if I don't dip my cars standard high-beam or extra installed driving lamps which see out to 400m plus, that I will cause crashes and trauma?

# Why should I indicate whatsoever at roundabouts, or at all at slip-lanes?

# Where are the stats to say that if I don't 'stop' at this STOP sign, that I'll crash and cause trauma?

# Where are the stats to say 'why I shouldn't overtake on double lines here and there'?

# Where are the stats to say why I should bother replacing my boat trailers left hand tail/stop lamp which has a faulty STOP function?

# Why is Rudd still PM? (wrong thread, sorry).

Etc, etc, etc, etc, and so on, you see - its all 'speed-related'......

I guess we can drive like anarchists, heck they do in Rome, but not Italy:-)

I said before DRIVING BADLY *IS* A NATIONAL PASTIME in AUS. By all means drive as 'freely' you like:-))

Ze rulez.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Your imagination is lacking then. The speed thing is overdone, 'speed-related' might represent say 40%, but exceed speed as the initiating cause <7% IF you believe those rotten POMS.

If I play it your way SB, let me ask you;-
# Where are the stats to say that my not indicating lane changes causes crashes and trauma?

# Where are the stats that say not indicating when pulling out from the kerb causes crashes and trauma?

# Where are the stats to say why I should not drive routinely in the right-hand lane, at or just below (for safety) on freeways or similar?

# Where are the stats that say if I don't dip my cars standard high-beam or extra installed driving lamps which see out to 400m plus, that I will cause crashes and trauma?

# Why should I indicate whatsoever at roundabouts or at all at slip-lanes?

# Where are the stats to say that if I don't 'stop' at this STOP sign I'll crash and cause trauma?

# Where are the states to say 'why I shouldn't overtake on double lines here and there'?

You see, its all 'speed-related'......

I guess we can drive like anarchists, heck they do in Rome, but not Italy:-)


Ze rulez.

Actually most of that is tabulated by the relevant investigators after a collision. I am not saying there are NO stats, you mis understand me, I am saying that the actual stats are so small that they aren't worth pursuing.

Hard numbers, how many people get killed/maimed directly by driving lights, where is the justification for the law, the fine and the demerits increase. Where is the justification for a BLITZ on these horrendous lethal inventions of the devil?

Being dazzled by bright lights, thats a justification, however I don't believe, not for a second, that the stunted set of lights at the bottom of your average BA/VE's spoiler are dazzling or life threatening, unless you are a nocturnal marsupial.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

I DONT get dazzled by the ****y little driving lights unless I lay down on the ground and stare into them from 1 meter away. I think some of you need a teaspoon of concrete powder.

I reckon the 'foggies' on My Fairmont Ghia would not dazzle anyone under normal driving circumstances.
But I fully support this law.

Too many people drive with extra lights on, and it doubles the glare from an oncoming car.

Even if the extra lights are observably less bright (most appear brighter), I do not want the guy coming the other way to have trouble seeing the road - so I dip them.

If they are aimed nice and low (as foggies should be) then the glare is only doubled when the road is wet.

IMHO, when you are on low beam and the foggies are on - the low beam should be disabled. When you are on High beam, and the foggies are on then you should see like daytime !

And I am uncertain about the law on this - but the Foggy rule should only apply in the same way the High beam rulee applies. Another Car within 300metres (or they dip first).

Darned soap box .... where did that come from ?

[Fev]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Agreed.

+1.

I get blinded by Honda's and their incredibly bright halogen headlights(aswell as mazda's, BMWs etc). i swear some of them are brighter then my highbeams. i believe the brightness level is getting a bit too high on standard cars and should be regulated more. I find that driving at night, by the end of a 15 min trip on a busy road my eyes are hurting and ive almost got a headache..

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Actually most of that is tabulated by the relevant investigators after a collision. I am not saying there are NO stats, you mis understand me, I am saying that the actual stats are so small that they aren't worth pursuing.

You ask me for them, yet you say they are small?? You tell us.

Hard numbers, how many people get killed/maimed directly by driving lights, where is the justification for the law, the fine and the demerits increase. Where is the justification for a BLITZ on these horrendous lethal inventions of the devil?

Driving lights or front fogs?? The 'mis-use' (of front fogs) is widely complained about to GovCo roads agencies (and road service mobs such as NRMA/RACV/RACQ/RACWA/AANT etc)), 'as glare and distraction'. That 'noise level' alone is enough for action as far as the road agencies are concerned.

I remind, we are simply following (adopted) European road rules here; restricting the use of a front fog lamp to its specific designed intention.

What I have said in my above post is all quite relevant, we have near zilch stats re indicators and crashes for example (statistically insignificant here in AUS), but still enforce their 'deemed' use. I wonder 'why'? Duh, we know why . . . even if it is statistically insignificant. And so it is with 'fogs'.

Being dazzled by bright lights, thats a justification, however I don't believe, not for a second, that the stunted set of lights at the bottom of your average BA/VE's spoiler are dazzling or life threatening, unless you are a nocturnal marsupial.

The we have many nocturnal marsupials among us.

Now an invitation: SB, you want us to overturn ARR-217 to allow, once again, the use of front fog lamps in clear weather conditions, day and night. What State are you in?

What you can do- failing an overturning of the 2008 upgrade to Rule 217, otherwise, is to then campaign to have the penalty reduced to $20 and for a zero demerit point gain >>for*your*state!

I have a faded number plate, how does that 'kill' and where are the Stats?? Revenue, it must be.....

Tow hook fitted mobile and not towing? More revenue I say.

More to all this than mere 'stats'. What your State GovCo charges for each 'offence' is a matter for it alone.


GLARE CAUSAL FACTOR's: Crash repair/people adding HID kits to halogen lamp designs/adjusting the lamp level control manually/increasing wattage beyond say 100watts in standard halogen headlamps.

I see glary lamps of all FUNCTIONS each and every day, ONLY a legitimate test can determine if 'the lamp' remains photometrically to ADR/NVS compliance.

People need to leave wiring and mounting alone. By all means replace standard halogen bulbs with say PLUS varieties, or ALL WEATHER type, but do not exceed complianced wattages.


You know SB - I am having visions of adopting the International speed-limit signs to NSW??? :-) Stats again???

[xygt01]

Originally Posted by barbarian

oh geez cry me a river you've been "blinded" by fog logs that sit well below the front bar with a 55w light bulb..

+1
i think if you go down the road and investigate most cars comeing out of the factory with standard fog/driving lights thet are in the lowar portion of the front bar and are only the basic 55 watt bulb they are therefore no different to the low beam of any car in fact most new cars low beam globs are lots brighter
there are plenty that come out standars with 90 low 130 high for example

it is actually stated some where that it is ilegal to have high wattage globes in these lights

so the rule is not really suitable to all i mean the people who dont dip there lights from high ect should be fined but the standard fog lights ect are not really the problem

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by xygt01

+1
i think if you go down the road and investigate most cars coming out of the factory with standard fog/driving lights that are in the lower portion of the front bar and are only the basic 55 watt bulb

"fog/driving lights"???? You are DESCRIBING TWO *DIFFERENT* lamp types. Each of the two type ALSO have different WIRING & MOUNTING requirements, understand??

YES, front fog lamps are complianced, on a 12volt system at 55watts.
Low-Beam on a 12volt halogen are complianced at 60watts.
High-Beam on a 12volt halogen is complianced at the lower 55watts.

they are therefore no different to the low beam of any car

The BEAM PARAMETERS & CHROMATIC COLOUR CO-ORDINATES (of fogs) ARE 'DIFFERENT' to LOW BEAM HEADLIGHTS, ONLY the WATTAGE is similar.

DRL's are also "DIFFERENT" TO ALL OTHER "FRONT LAMPS", just in case.
SO too are 'CORNERING LAMPS'.

in fact most new cars low-beam globes are lots brighter
there are plenty that come out standard with 90 low 130 high for example

THAT IS NOT "STANDARD", but a DEFECT.

it is actually stated some where that it is illegal to have high wattage globes in these lights

LOL, at ADR and NVS per directly above; a defect, OKAY?

so the rule is not really suitable to all i mean the people who dont dip there lights from high etc, should be fined, but the standard fog lights ect are not really the problem

About those speed-limits, I think we need to reduce the States maximum to 90km/h to suite 'the average Aussie".

Happy new financial year to you!

[MITCHAY]

I don't have a problem with driving/fog lights whatever you call them, 4WDs on normal beam are the worse.

I've found that the ones in my WRX are not particularly bright but they light up the road and sides a bit when driving down dark roads. I've accidentally left them on a number of times and never been pulled over.

[tweeked]

A fog light should not dazzle. Its just lazy law making outlawing them. The beam is aimed lower than your normal main beams. Commodore driving lights are the worst. They are the same aiming as a high beam.

Dont get me started about 4WD lights. :

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I don't have a problem with driving/fog lights whatever you call them, 4WDs on normal beam are the worse.

I've found that the ones in my WRX are not particularly bright but they light up the road and sides a bit when driving down dark roads. I've accidentally left them on a number of times and never been pulled over.

Mitchay, you've been around here long enough if I recall to have read a few of these discussions.

* The front fogs on the WRX are complianced (naturally), what you notice as to their performance is TYPICAL for that of a front fog lamp. So we are all cool here.

* ENFORCEMENT; Simply gets down to police numbers and from this point of the discussion, it then gets POLITICAL as to serving numbers, HWP numbers on the road etc. Some people are lucky and never get booked, some can't help but drag attention to themselves.


Just a note re aftermarket driving lamps (not talking fog here): WHILST it is true that these are complianced as 'legal' at 12volt/55watts. Most enforcers couldn't care less in a large place like AUS, if you do add halogen 130watt bulbs; it is a big place and I find most are understanding of this, PROVIDED you switch them off as you do the cars regular high-beam headlights.

But don't risk buggering around in that modification manner with low-beams, cornering lamps, DRL's or front fog lamps, OTHER than to use say PLUS XX variety bulbs, where at least you remain in wattage compliance.

TWEAKED; the COMMODORE you referenced will be the VX-VY Series SS. The supplied lamps on those were made in South Korea, and as normal with Australia's ADR process, 'written evidence' of compliance (with the front fog lamp ADR) was issued to then DOTARS. They in turn then automatically 'accept' this evidence *without* independent testing.

They SHOULD have been recalled (TRADE COMPLIANCE responsibility at FED level) in my view and replaced. HSV units WERE in fact complianced, and came from the same supplier and country of origin AND were 'E' marked compliant too.

All current front fogs comply.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Mitchay, you've been around here long enough if I recall to have read a few of these discussions.

* The front fogs on the WRX are complianced (naturally), what you notice as to their performance is TYPICAL for that of a front fog lamp. So we are all cool here.

* ENFORCEMENT; Simply gets down to police numbers and from this point of the discussion, it then gets POLITICAL as to serving numbers, HWP numbers on the road etc. Some people are lucky and never get booked, some can't help but drag attention to themselves.


Just a note re aftermarket driving lamps (not talking fog here): WHILST it is true that these are complianced as 'legal' at 12volt/55watts. Most enforcers couldn't care less in a large place like AUS, if you do add halogen 130watt bulbs; it is a big place and I find most are understanding of this, PROVIDED you switch them off as you do the cars regular high-beam headlights.

But don't risk buggering around in that modification manner with low-beams, cornering lamps, DRL's or front fog lamps, OTHER than to use say PLUS XX variety bulbs, where at least you remain in wattage compliance.

Ah ok, that's good. Didn't remember any other discussions, memory is crap :

[Keepleft]

FORUM ERROR, mod to delete this at will, thanks

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Ah ok, that's good. Didn't remember any other discussions, memory is crap :

You know its funny, at about this time every year we have the same discussion, take a look at one of my earlier posts where I gave a link to an earlier post on this forum, note the date:-)

Thing is, THIS is a major motor forum, where I'd like to think most of us are at least a little more "in-tune" with the realities of driving and the motor car".

Now I ask, WHAT CHANCE HAVE DO EDUCATORS/SELF ETC, HAVE IN REGARDS TO THE REMAINING 99% OF THE LICENSE BEARING POPULATION WHO ALSO 'USE LAMPS'??

It might explain the level of complaint we see in forum as to ALL driving issues.

It might also signal that we need to be pro-active and start calling in a few older driver's for periodic 'knowledge testing', OR AT LEAST send them, at their cost, a copy of their respective States driver manual for a read??????

What chance politically??

* I LOVE front fogs, but for their designed purpose, I wouldn't own a car without one, snobby swine that I am. . . .

NB - As is typical, these threads then become 'locked' where the topic arises at all forums. Perhaps we can be patient dear mods? I'm easy. Mebbe we need a sticky re the use of front fogs, with those ISO symbols used. If mods wish to go down that path, do advise.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by low au classic

unless the driver is driving in fog or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility"

Typical of lawmakers in this country it's legislaton like this that will, not only create a revenue raising opportunity, but also make lawyers richer....At what state does the weather have to be in order for it to be deemed hazardous ??? and the onus of proof falls on whom to determine "reduced" visibility ???

Going through this thread I have to agree with Sourbastard....Unless the car is fitted with aftermarket high wattage bulbs I can't see how these could possibly affect vision as with high beam.

I have them on my car, never use them, in fact most of the time I forget they're even there , but if someone else uses theirs I couldn't give a toss to be frank, in fact I think if by having them on means I can see their road presence better than I otherwise would have then that's gotta be a big tick for road safety hasn't it? in which case they should be mandatory .

[Trek]

Anyone complaining about anything below high beam head lights/4WD driving lights is just whinging for the sake of whinging. I don't even think a brick would penetrate the thick skulls of the people that were complaining about driving lights in general being dazzling thus brining about the new law.

Hooray for Australia going backwards even further. We'll reach the dinosaur age soon enough, folks!

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by low au classic
unless the driver is driving in fog or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility"

Originally Posted by GT0132

Typical of lawmakers in this country it's legislation like this that will, not only create a revenue raising opportunity, but also make lawyers richer....At what state does the weather have to be in order for it to be deemed hazardous??? And the onus of proof falls on whom to determine "reduced" visibility???

1. The State (use?) heavy rain, fog, snowfall, bushfire smoke, gravel roads in dust, and in duststorms where clear weather 'sight distance' is 'reduced'.
2. The State.
See also Rule 215 (1) vis; low-beam must be used under hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility' OR parkers and front fogs.

* THE RULE re front FOGS in GB is 100 metres, in Germany for rear fog only 50 metres or less visibility is the specification given.

SNIP - I have them on my car, never use them, in fact most of the time I forget they're even there , but if someone else uses theirs I couldn't give a toss to be frank, in fact I think if by having them on means I can see their road presence better than I otherwise would have then that's gotta be a big tick for road safety hasn't it? in which case they should be mandatory .

One can see low-beam just as well, often 'better' than front fogs.

Originally Posted by Trek

Anyone complaining about anything below high beam head lights/4WD driving lights is just whinging for the sake of whinging. I don't even think a brick would penetrate the thick skulls of the people that were complaining about driving lights in general being dazzling thus bringing about the new law.

DRIVING LIGHTS?? Read earlier post above re the DIFFERENCE between front fogs and driving lamps.

Hooray for Australia going backwards even further. We'll reach the dinosaur age soon enough, folks!

Backwards?? In some respects yes, but this law is the EXACT same law used in the western developed world, even in places like Argentina, seriously.

WHAT will you do WHEN OR IF Australia *mandates* DRL's?? Have the front fogs on, DRL's on, Cornering lamps re-wired to come on too??? Gee, might be seen three times as well as mere low-beam headlights then!

[LOCO XP]

Fog lights meh.... I have more of a problem with inefficient/blown headlights. Seems to be more of these getting around, at night easily misjudged as a car way off in the distance or a bike.... As for "dazzling" can't say I've had much of a problem with foglamps, but can almost guarantee any car that seems to have its headlights on high-beam, is more often than not an AU Falcon or 4wd. Also, the ultra-bright lamps fitted to luxo/euro barges is ridiculous.

Revenue raising rubbish. Lets some some legislation fall upon manufacturers to get some sort of standardisation for headlight aim/intensity/positioning.