Falcon sedan closes in on Commodore

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ford need to aim to make money off every sale, Ford have lower overheads than Holden, you can't bank sales volume, you bank profit..
To be honest id be happier to see Ford sell 2000 units a month and turn a sustainable profit then sell 3000 units a month and make a loss like Holden do...
Its all about getting the mix right and turning a profit, not just pumping out cars and flogging them at below cost because you cant slow your operation down quickly....

I know what your saying but didnt Holden make a profit last month?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I know what your saying but didnt Holden make a profit last month?

I havent heard that, never seen "monthly" results.. It depends on what month they absorbed the manufacturing costs of the stock value that they sold.... Id prefer to look at a 1/4 or half year result which is more accurate.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I know what your saying but didnt Holden make a profit last month?

Who said that? That's news to me...

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Who said that? That's news to me...

I thought I read in one of the press releases about a week ago. Some head honcho said they made a profit or came very close to it.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I thought I read in one of the press releases about a week ago. Some head honcho said they made a profit or came very close to it.

Aah that would be Mark Ruess stating to the press that he expected Holden to return to profit soon and that the company was 'almost' profitable last month...or words to that effect.

Note: I have no beef or quarrel with Mark Ruess: he's a car guy and has the best interests of the Aussie car industry at heart.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I thought I read in one of the press releases about a week ago. Some head honcho said they made a profit or came very close to it.

Yeah, GMH's Reuss, said they almost made money last month.

4v touched on it though. You can easily make money, if you don't make any cars this month and sell off some of the last few months excess. The months those excesses accrued is where more substantial losses are made...

PS Haven't GMH not only cut back to half production, but having substantially increased down days?!

[Crazed]

Originally Posted by flappist

A few observations on this:

1) Ford made "performance" wagons up until 2002, a 5l V8 was an option. They sold bugger all of them.
2) FTG made a F6 wagon in 2006, they took ages to sell it, much drooling, no money.
3) Most of the "pro wagoneers" are not driving wagons although I am sure they have a good excuse.
4) The strongest argument put up in favour of a performance wagon is that another company makes them and that company has admitted losing money for years. These wagons are actually quite rare compared to all the other models.
5) Even on AFF where the lunatic fringe of modification zealots abide, there are not a lot of BA/BF wagons fitted with super chargers, turbo chargers, V8s, manual conversions, upgraded interiors, body kits etc while there are squillions of above modded sedans and utes.
n.

1) I wouldnt really call a 5l Fairmont a 'performance' wagon. More of a luxury wagon.
2) The F6 fits into more the SUV category.
3) A lot of 'pro wagoneers' in this country have bought the Holden wagon - which has outsold every SUV (including the Territory) in the country since release.
4) If only profitable companies built cars, some years we would not have had the Falcon. And the model mix of Holden performance variants is rich, expecially as most fleets if they need a workhorse buy the Falcon.
5) I dont see any supercharged or V8 Mazda 3s but it outsells the Falcon.

[phillyc]

When asked why Ford had not been discounting the Falcon as heavily as Holden had been discounting the Commodore, Burela said: "We made a conscious decision not to go down the path of aggressive discounting. I chose not to follow the very erratic behaviour in March and December of some of our rivals.

"We are building cars to order, to protect our resale values. We have 31 to 32 days of stock in dealer's hands, this is almost an all-time low and a very good position to be in. It means we are not carving up [profits] for the sake of it. Some of our rivals have significantly greater supply in dealer stock."

Back on topic. This stock and build position is very promising for Ford.

Also nice to see another stab at Toyota (Dec) and GMHolden (Dec & Mar).

[Sprint XR8]

CEO says Holden Australia heading toward profit

TONY EASTLEY: Alright, can you answer me this. You've seen Holden's exports to the US axed - the Pontiac brand has gone - and you couldn't make a profit in boom times - since 2004, you've not made a profit. We're now in a recession. How do you expect to make a profit over the next few years?

MARK REUSS: Well, let me start by correcting something a little bit here. We haven't announced our financial result for 2008 but I think it's a little bit unfair to make a broad sweeping generalisation.

TONY EASTLEY: Well, it's not a generalisation to say you haven't made a profit since 2004, is it?

MARK REUSS: Well, we haven't announced our earnings for 2008 so how can you make that statement?

TONY EASTLEY: Alright, so are you hoping to turn things around in the next statement, is that what you're telling me?

MARK REUSS: I'm more than hoping to turn things around today in Holden. And this last month, I think you'll see we probably did turn a profit. We haven't closed all the books yet, so...

We're turning it around. We've got a good structure in place, we've taken the hard decisions and we've got a great revenue basis that we've established here. And you know, most of that is without taxpayer or government funding because we haven't started making our small car yet.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2009/s2586649.htm

"probably" turned a profit.

[Mark351]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ford need to aim to make money off every sale, Ford have lower overheads than Holden, you can't bank sales volume, you bank profit..
To be honest id be happier to see Ford sell 2000 units a month and turn a sustainable profit then sell 3000 units a month and make a loss like Holden do...
Its all about getting the mix right and turning a profit, not just pumping out cars and flogging them at below cost because you cant slow your operation down quickly....

That's right on the money. Clearly, the business case for the FG wagon hasn't stacked up, and they don't foresee making the necessary ROI on wagon sales to justify the expense of tooling the new parts required to upgrade it to FG spec, plus all new sales collateral, etc etc.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You need to offset that with terri figures to get the real picture..

The Terri has been a big cash cow for Ford. Unfortunately it has not only taken away from Wagon sales it also took sedan sales away.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Crazed

2) The F6 fits into more the SUV category.

flappist was not referring to 'F6X' by FPV but rather a one off wagon with F6 running gear built by FTG (ferntree gully auto salvage)

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I just dont buy this to be honest. If a person wants a sedan (as I do), I have no interest at all in a Wagon.. And I can't understand why anyone who wants a Wagon would setle for a sedan.. Just doesnt make sense to me, but I could be wrong.

if you look at all the sales figures of the commodore, since the release of the wagon/hatch you will notice the overall sales have not increased. the wagon has only stolen sedan sales, not added overall sales.

[vztrt]

Ford Increasing Production!

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575D700026145

Ford Australia increases production

Ford steps back on the production pedal as Falcon sedan nips at Commodore's heels

By JAMES STANFORD 16 June 2009

FORD Australia is taking the rare step of increasing production in June to meet demand on select models as Falcon sedan closes the sales gap on Holden’s top-selling Commodore.

Ford came within one percentage point of its arch rival in overall sales last month, but was hamstrung by lack of a fresh Falcon wagon to match Holden’s Sportwagon.

Ford Australia president Marin Burela said the company had cancelled two scheduled production down days to increase volumes.

“As a matter of fact, we are looking at whether we can increase, for the month of June, our line rate or through-put for the last two weeks to see whether we can get some more units out,” he said.

“There is a call from dealers and customers for Territorys, for Utilities, for Falcon and G6E Turbo.”

Mr Burela says Ford dealers had waiting lists for premium G6E Turbo models, with most customers having to wait until as late as October to take delivery.

He said demand for specific models reflected the take up of higher specification models in the FG range, with far more Ford customers buying the higher-end G6E and XR models than the entry level XT.

In another positive for Ford Australia, the Falcon sedan came within a few sales of beating the Holden Commodore sedan in May, according to VFACTS data.

Publicly released VFACTS figures show that in May, Holden sold 3683 Commodores compared to Ford shifting 2846 Falcons, but these numbers included wagons.

“The difference when you look at Falcon and Commodore is the delta between the two wagons,” says Mr Burela.

“Whereas sedan to sedan in May we were climbing and climbing and we were within 10 or 15 cars of one another.”

While Holden is selling a new VE Sportwagon, Ford Australia is soldiering on with a BF III version of the wagon with no FG version in the pipeline.

Mr Burela said Ford still sold about 300 to 400 Falcon wagons a month and was yet to decide if it would invest in an upgrade.

“We continue to look at what we should do and we haven’t come to a conclusion yet,” he said. “We took the view of waiting to see what happens.

“We are being cautious as we move forward because every decision you make on product like that means millions and millions and millions of dollars and the last thing I want to do is invest our scarce resources where we don’t need to invest them.”

[Paxton]

Great news.

Here's hoping they can make this stick into July.

[Bluehoon]

This is great news and let's hope Ford maintains the momentum
Ir Burela keeps it going just what could happen???

[Road_Warrior]

“There is a call from dealers and customers for Territorys, for Utilities, for Falcon and G6E Turbo.”

I can vouch for this, my mate's brother went to offload his BAII XR8 and wanted a Territory and none of the metro dealers had any in the spec he wanted (not sure what that spec was)

So he bought a Kluger instead :

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by prydey

flappist was not referring to 'F6X' by FPV but rather a one off wagon with F6 running gear built by FTG (ferntree gully auto salvage)



if you look at all the sales figures of the commodore, since the release of the wagon/hatch you will notice the overall sales have not increased. the wagon has only stolen sedan sales, not added overall sales.

If that is all every one is basing they comments on, I believe it less now than I did yesterday. The only why this can ever be properly measured is if Holden asked all the Wagon owners “if the Sports wagon was not built would you have bought the sedan in stead”.



And it is great production is increasing.. I can't believe people have to wait until October to get an G6E turbo.. Surely Ford can do a better job here? What would be the hold up here?

[HSE2]

Yes Ford was caught out by reducing stock too far in light of the Tax incentives on offer.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Blue_XR

I read this on carsales.com.au



Interesting times ahead

That sounds very promising. It would be nice to see Australian manufacture achieve a net increase.

[bathurst77]

To me the problem with a Modeo wagon is notthe body or size, it will be the std engine.
Mondeo Zetec Sedan is already a far from fast or powerful car. (i own one)
Its Ok fro day to day, but not exactly a powerhouse.

I wonder how it would cope with the (probably) heavier wagon body and half a tonne of crap (umm load) people would fill wagon with, never mind if a bit of towing is needed.

Be OK in deisel or turbo form, other than that many people will want the powere of a 6 cyl wagon for the weight.

[Luke Plaizier]

With more buyers taking up the higher-spec models in the range, it makes you wonder why the freckle they killed off the Fairlane. That sounds like inadequate market research to me.

The Fairlane/LTD was meant to be the top spec model in the range, commanding the highest price. So why did they never have the best engines, or look any better than an XT Falcon?

It's clear now that by differentiating the car by it's appearance, and making it the pinnacle of engineering of the range, rather than a lowly stretched poverty pack car, they could have sold a lot more of them. They had a VCT Fairmont Ghia in the AU range - why was there no Turbo Fairmont Ghia in the BA, or a Turbo Fairlane.

Sometimes the decisions made by the guys in control make you boggle. But then again, we're all experts in hindsight.


Lukeyson

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

With more buyers taking up the higher-spec models in the range, it makes you wonder why the freckle they killed off the Fairlane. That sounds like inadequate market research to me.

The Fairlane/LTD was meant to be the top spec model in the range, commanding the highest price. So why did they never have the best engines, or look any better than an XT Falcon?

It's clear now that by differentiating the car by it's appearance, and making it the pinnacle of engineering of the range, rather than a lowly stretched poverty pack car, they could have sold a lot more of them. They had a VCT Fairmont Ghia in the AU range - why was there no Turbo Fairmont Ghia in the BA, or a Turbo Fairlane.

Sometimes the decisions made by the guys in control make you boggle. But then again, we're all experts in hindsight.


Lukeyson

Your kidding right, the Fairlane was barely selling units. The only reason it survived at GMH was cause of its exports to the middle east.
As for why wasn't there a Fairmont Ghia Turbo, well they obviously saw the potential with the G6ET. The decision with previous models was made when no Turbo model existed as no data was there previously and V8's were king.

[prydey]

its false economy not including the wagon numbers in the commodore sales and big noting falcon.

building a falcon wagon will possibly have the same effect the holden wagon had. sedan sales will suffer while overall sales stay roughly the same.

[Road_Warrior]

Forget the LWB cars. They're history. Look how many LWB cars Holden are selling now and that is with an export market to subsidise local production.

IMO Ford could 'reposition' the G6ET to be more of a stand-alone premium model with different front and rear sheetmetal to set it apart from the rest of the range, and it can take the Fairlane's place. Either that, or keep the G6ET as is, and introduce a model above it with more fruit but with different styling so it doesn't look like a G6ET but actually is underneath. Call it the 'Customline' :

[banarcus]

Sorry Ford, a mondeo wagon with the four banger wont cut it, not for me anyway. Nor does a high rise Territory 6 cylinder SUV. I'll just soldier on with my ED station wagon until it's dead.

[XR6_190]

Good to see Ford looking on the positive side, and having the guts to boast about it.

As for the possibility of an FG wagon, if it happens, it will more than likely be optimised for fleets, that said, a wagon optimised for fleets doesn't have to be as dry and dreary as some people think, but Ford aren't likely to invest too much dough in upscale wagons when they already have the Terri' and the Mondeo wagon. A commercial wagon is where the profits will be for a Falcon Wagon, as has been said many times before on this forum.

In other words, if anybody is hanging out for a Ford XR8 wagon, or a FG G6ET Sportswagon, do not hold your breath, FORD WILL NOT MAKE ONE.

[ZA-289]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Yes Ford was caught out by reducing stock too far in light of the Tax incentives on offer.

typical, holden benifits, ford looses....

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by banarcus

Sorry Ford, a mondeo wagon with the four banger wont cut it, not for me anyway. Nor does a high rise Territory 6 cylinder SUV. I'll just soldier on with my ED station wagon until it's dead.

How about if the drop a Terri to sedan hight? I mean Factory and not joe blow tyre mart.

[GK]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I just dont buy this to be honest. If a person wants a sedan (as I do), I have no interest at all in a Wagon.. And I can't understand why anyone who wants a Wagon would setle for a sedan.. Just doesnt make sense to me, but I could be wrong.

I love wagons, I love sedans.

You could be like me and own two Falcons (both AUs), both on LPG, one (mine) a manual sedan, the other (family transport) an auto wagon.

Both fine cars, cheap to work on, cheap as to run, great to drive, and they were made within 10 minutes of where I live. I only wish both were V8s. LOL!

If I had the cash and was in the market for two replacements, I'd probably do the same over (ie. sedan and wagon), but in BFII mode.

GK

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by vztrt

How about if the drop a Terri to sedan hight? I mean Factory and not joe blow tyre mart.

Like this?



Hmm no thanks.

Back on topic, sorry peoples :