Speed Camera's...

[fairBA]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Option or opinion or onion? Pick one. I am happy to disagree with your option/opinion/onion as well. :P :

ya that was opinon. would be a boring forum if we all agreed

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by fairBA

ya that was opinon. would be a boring forum if we all agreed

Nah I disagree! Don't get me started now! :

[fairBA]

just as a side note - does anyone know where the money from fines goes?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by fairBA

just as a side note - does anyone know where the money from fines goes?

Consolidated revenue... to be used on whatever they want. Think of it as the State change tin.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by fairBA

just as a side note - does anyone know where the money from fines goes?

Yes mate, it is used to prop up the poor financial decisions made by stupid govt members, these days a govt can say blow a budget by xyz, she will be right lets top it up with the juices of our cash cow.

I think it was you who said in an earlier post re the govt putting these funds back into the system ? ( ay be wrong )

In the good old days when this speed rubbish was born that was indeed the case or meant to be, but now a days this is not the case and you will be struggling to find out where it goes, the govt has secrecy laws with more powers than the bikies no talk rule.

One example of the crap that happens here ( SA ), recently the was a public fundraiser where money from a dinner was meant to go to charity, there was a big stink as the promoter did some of the $

Media Mike then huffed n puffed and said now all revenue from raising money had to be open and accounted for.

But you get a speeding fine here it says " a percentage of this fine goes towards rady rady " there is no % figure listed, what is it 1 % 10 % who knows and the rest is not even listed. It is these double standards and shady practices that only adds fuel to the whole cash cow crap system they have.

[Outbackjack]

When you read statistical BS like this, it is no wonder that Governments are putting speed camera's in all the revenue positive locations.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...ras/index.html

Remember that when they say "speeding was a factor" this also applies even if you were travelling below the speed limit, ie: you were moving. It is just BS to prop up their money grubbing attitude towards drivers. Also note that "speeding" is a factor in about 40% of accidents. Now, why is there no visible effort in lowering the other 60% of causes???? (booze asside)

[fairBA]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

When you read statistical BS like this, it is no wonder that Governments are putting speed camera's in all the revenue positive locations.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...ras/index.html

Reading this and looking at some of the other links on the left hand side - F3? wet wether limits - we just dont have these rules in qld. just 40km at school times, 50 in most local streets, 60km most 'through' roads and then as directed up to 100km with 110km on the pacific from Logan to Gold coast (30 kilometerish). maybe this is the reason for the differenece between my opinon and the others replies above.

[Van D]

Originally Posted by fairBA

Trying to hide what! the fact that speed limits are there for a safety reason. Saving lives? Ok, this is worst case situation granted that. What’s next, lets complain about Jwalking fines or dog S&*t fines. Get over it

Speed limits aren't there for saving lives. NT has doubled in road tolls since the limits came in hasn't it (someone feel free to correct, it was that way last time i checked)?

Speed limits and safe driving speeds are two different things.

You've obviously never copped a crap fine. I haven't either, but my mum who is a VERY reserved driver got FOUR in one week, on the same road, by a hidden camera outside her work. Thing is, they hid it behind bushes and at the bottom of a big hill, which is illegal in itself. You could only tell it was there at night when the flash went off.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

When you read statistical BS like this, it is no wonder that Governments are putting speed camera's in all the revenue positive locations.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...ras/index.html

Remember that when they say "speeding was a factor" this also applies even if you were travelling below the speed limit, ie: you were moving. It is just BS to prop up their money grubbing attitude towards drivers. Also note that "speeding" is a factor in about 40% of accidents. Now, why is there no visible effort in lowering the other 60% of causes???? (booze asside)

There is no pot 'o' gold in the other 60% of accident causes!
I have received a kodak infringment notice for 67 in a 60 zone the other day, an extra $7.50 for the viewing pleasure which I will have sent to me. My mistake for being unobservant! I see Mr Ritchie is still only a Senior Sergeant, fellow Victorians will understand that line! I gave quite a number of other drivers a polite flash warning of a burgundy Corolla on Warrigul Rd.
Cheers
Bill.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Van D

Speed limits aren't there for saving lives. NT has doubled in road tolls since the limits came in hasn't it (someone feel free to correct, it was that way last time i checked)?

They haven't doubled. But since open road speed limits , demerit points, and red light camera's have been introduced the toll has been consistantly higher.

You can check here,

http://www.nt.gov.au/pfes/index.cfm?...ion=page&p=148

What is coming next is spy camera's on the NT open roads to keep a track of people's speeds. Oh yeah thats right, also to prevent all the Peter Falconio type of incidents..... They are really out of control these days.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Bill M

There is no pot 'o' gold in the other 60% of accident causes!
I have received a kodak infringment notice for 67 in a 60 zone the other day, an extra $7.50 for the viewing pleasure which I will have sent to me. My mistake for being unobservant! I see Mr Ritchie is still only a Senior Sergeant, fellow Victorians will understand that line! I gave quite a number of other drivers a polite flash warning of a burgundy Corolla on Warrigul Rd.
Cheers
Bill.

Dont pay it!!!!

http://www.aussiespeedingfines.com/index.php

Give these guys a try. You wont be sorry!!!

[Outbackjack]

Two Melbourne drivers have beaten speeding fines by challenging camera images in court, and more are set to follow.

John King and Claus Salger won David-and-Goliath battles against Victoria Police by using information contained in a speed camera operator's manual.

Illustrations in the manual, obtained through Freedom of Information, proved they could not have been speeding.

In November, a Melbourne court will hear a challenge to a speed camera fine on the same basis.

Barrister and traffic law expert Sean Hardy will call two experts in the Melbourne Magistrates' Court on behalf of a client who says he was not speeding.

Mr Hardy said Mr King and Mr Salger had exposed systemic problems in mobile speed cameras and the case would test if their success could be repeated.

"I don't think John and Claus have blown the system apart," Mr Hardy said.

"But I think they've exposed cracks in it. And people have been exposing cracks in it for a long time."

Mr King and Mr Salger won court costs from Victoria Police in separate prosecutions and say their cases reveal a culture of secrecy, misinformation, cover-up and sloppy prosecution.

They said the system of verifying images was flawed and biased against drivers.

The men claim the system is so complex and secretive most drivers cannot challenge their fines.

"Most people aren't going to spend three days in court fighting a $160 fine," Mr King said.

"I was able to win my case using their own operator's manual. It showed the camera didn't produce an accurate image in my case."

Mr Salger, who has 45 years experience in radio electronics and worked for 16 years at Melbourne airport, picked apart the camera manuals and studied the complex radar science that defeats most drivers.

Tests proved that radar-activated cameras can be triggered by street signs, road barriers and even the movements of car aerials, he said.

"As the system stands now you don't have to have committed an offence to be guilty of it," Mr Salger said.

"The camera does not point and say, 'this car did it, or this one did not, or none of them did it'. It takes a picture.

"And then that picture has to be interpreted. The flaw I see is in the interpretation.

Under Victoria's speed camera legislation police normally only have to prove the camera was properly set up and calibrated in order to obtain a conviction.

One of the men's claims that is hotly disputed is that speed camera infingements are computer generated by Tenix, the camera operators.

Mr Salger and Mr King say the system simply identifies a number plate, searches for the owner of the vehicle and sends out an infringement notice.

In March this year Mr King had his speeding case dismissed and was awarded $1260 costs in Heidelberg Magistrates' Court.

Mr King's expert witness was Mr Salger who beat a speeding offence at Broadmeadows Magistrates' Court in 2006.

It took Mr King 18 months to prepare a defence because of the difficulty of obtaining the speed camera manual that helped him prove he was not speeding.

Magistrate Roger Franich said the Tenix employee who set up the camera described the manual as his "bible".

However police witness Chris Burden, an engineer from RMIT who calibrates all Victoria's speed cameras, dismissed the manual.

"Burden said the manual used by Tenix operators was full of technical errors," Mr Franich said.

[Outbackjack]

$1 million in traffic fines every day
Meanwhile, a road safety school that provided life-saving lessons to parents and youngsters from across Melbourne has been axed.

Traffic fine figures reveal the Government expects to reap $376 million this financial year from traffic fines, a $60 million jump on the previous year.

It is also a 61 per cent rise on the total three years ago.

The Government is earning $42,922 an hour, with a motorist booked every 12 seconds.

Despite the bounty, the Government plans to spend only $120 million on new road safety initiatives, according to State Budget papers released this month.

Motoring fine revenue is to continue its upwards spiral in 2007-08, when the Government estimates it will collect $419 million.

Opposition Transport spokesman Terry Mulder said the Government was blatantly using cameras for profit.

He also said fine revenue pledged for road safety was being used to fund road building and maintenance.

But the soaring motoring fine revenue has not been enough to save a 40-year-old program that taught road awareness to children from 150 kindergartens and primary schools.

The move came after the Victoria Police re-assigned Moorabbin Children's Traffic School's instructor Sen-Constable Sue Radchenko to other duties.

Opposition scrutiny of government spokesman Murray Thompson demanded the "disgraceful" decision be reversed.

When the Budget figures were put to the Government yesterday, spokeswoman Fiona MacRae responded: "Since July 2005, all receipts collected from traffic camera and on-the-spot speeding fines have been channelled back into improving Victoria's roads.

"The funds are spent on roads, road safety and road maintenance programs."

The Government and police have repeatedly refused to reveal camera statistics.

[Outbackjack]

Parking mess
The council is struggling to balance its books with a $4.2 million hole in its budget.

Motorists have already paid $35.5 million in parking fines in the 2007 financial year, down $2 million on the previous year.

Having slashed staff to save costs, the council is tackling drivers in its scramble to get out of trouble.

Fines have already been increased for disobeying "green signs" and parking meter hours have been extended.

The possibility of using big-brother cameras to detect parking infringements has also been mooted.

At this rate, parking in Melbourne streets will soon become a byword for harassment.

If the council still wants to encourage more people into the CBD this is not the way to go about it.

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Speeding is driving like a wan.k at ridiculous speeds where you are potentially risking the safety of others and their property! Going over the posted limit by a few km/h in perfectly good conditions is NOT speeding. Going over the posted limit by a few km/h where the f'n posted limit changes every minute should never be looked at as speeding.

Exactly, 3km/h over the limit is not what I would call speeding.
I drive my car to the conidtions of the road, there is a reason why I don't drive down the Hume Hwy at peak hour doing 60km/h. I cant! There are other cars in my way going slower than I am and bloking my path! So what? Should I go out, but a 4WD with a nice big bullbar and drive to the speed limit? And when I run into the slow in front of my I can run to the police and say "But I was doing the speed limit".
If I was on the hume however at 12am and it was dead empty, I would probably have no problem with driving 10-20km/h over, the police would, but I wouldnt. I wouldn't be putting anyone in danger.
And don't say the speed limits are there to save lives, because speeding kills, Stupidity kills! Speed limits are there so that when some bozo thinks it'll be a good idea to come out of a driveway without looking, I have a certain percent chance increase in stopping before I hit him. Yeah, saved my life, awesome, I'd rather have less idiots on the road and sit at a comfortable speed without having to worry about loosing my licence for doing nothing dangerous.
Next time I think I'll jot down the number plate of the car that forces me to perform an emergency stop, and send him a bill for the rubber lost on my tyres, a new set of break pads and a maccas reciept for the liquid I will need to replace in my body after sweating about nearly hitting him.

[andrewts]

Originally Posted by Casper

Come for a drive in Victoria, stay for a month. Lets see how much you agree with the speed camera's then.

Amen brother, I agree. There are far too many speed cameras in Melbourne. I can live with the few speed cameras we have here in Sydney, they are reasonable, but Melbourne... what a joke.

[Falc'man]

/\/\/\ don't worry, they're popping them out like rabbits (in Sydney) and soon we'll be feeling the same frustration and anger our Mexican neighbours are subjected to. I love the way they're strategically placed as well. /goes check mail for more tickets.

[lilscotty1987ba]

with vicraods when u go 4 a licence test y is it they allow u to be doing 10 kmph more then the speed limit for 5 secs provided the tester is watching and at that split sec point where the carera is focused u have to be right on the speed???? i have been pulled over twice for speeding, the first time i got pulled over i was asked y i was speedeing and had my bullbar lights lights on (wiered in sperate to the head lights) and i said i had blown the fuse for my parkers and being 3.30 in the morning no1 was on the road and nothing was open for me to get a new fues!! well long story short i got a fine for being 16kms over. 3points (only get 5 on ur P's here) and 215 bucks!! i aslo got fined for not "dipping" my lights while being within 200 mtrs of another car!! i argued the point that the "car" which is white and has flashing lights was neither on the road or in sight! i got off the fine and got away with it thanks to a judge who though it was a bit un fair seing that the police officer and looked at the dash, blown fuse and seen the lights not working!!

[DOC]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

/\/\/\ don't worry, they're popping them out like rabbits (in Sydney) and soon we'll be feeling the same frustration and anger our Mexican neighbours are subjected to. I love the way they're strategically placed as well. /goes check mail for more tickets.

Mate we can go better in SA, we have BOND, JAMES BOND, yes thats right our sneaky little govt are fitting the cars with a number plates that fold down and out pop all the goodies to snap away.

Yes we need to invest more in covert ways to catch these reckless people.

[Falc'man]

Great, I'm moving over to SA. I was thinking of Mexico but its too cold there.

[MITCHAY]

They have put more fixed speed cameras up here in the ACT recently. Funnily enough though, the ones that I go past are on roads which are straight as and are not blackspots. To make it even worse one road is 80 when it should be 100.

I had never heard about an accident in this particular spot on one of these roads until the other day. What's the bet it was cause by someone hitting the anchors to avoid a fine too? :

Lucky for us we have plenty of warning here though! As long as I remember to brake, no problem :

Whilst I think that a visible police presence is much more effective, if they are going to have speed cameras, they should put them in areas where they "may" have some effect.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Lucky for us we have plenty of warning here though! As long as I remember to brake, no problem :
.

Interstate visitors have no idea though about these crazy states and their arcaic speed camera rules. I drove down to Perisher for the weekend a few months ago from Sydney (where you get 3 warning signs) so good time was being made. Then we hit ACT, I swear it had to be about 400 metres over the border (it was getting dark) and this white van looms up on the side of the road - anyway this dude in black was setting something up and whilst we were squinting at him, he flashed some bright orange light at us. Peeved off we pulled over and backed up to see what he wanted and only then did it dawn on us...the white van had a "Speed you lose" sign sitting on top of it (thats what he was setting up) and also a camera poking out the back - sneaky bugger.

I dont think he got us though as he was still setting up and 3 months later no fine. Anyway rest of the way through ACT we did the agonizingly slow limit and spotted a plethora of money vans/camera's in various positions. Out the other side of the border on the way to Perisher no more cams and once again excellent time was made. Same story on the way back through - Its like entering the twighlight zone or something...luckily I fly when I go to Vic.

[Casper]

Just to prove its all revenue.. I dare them to turn off all speed cameras (I'm actually all for red light camera's, they are a proven life saver) for 1 year. I bet the road stats are effectively identical. Only problem will be the government would collapse in massive debt. Pretty hard to replace a $400 million revenue stream.

[MITCHAY]

I remember one time on the way back from the coast there was a speed camera car in the middle of bloody nowhere! If that isn't revenue raising then I don't know what is. Yes people have died on that road, but FFS it was in no way a blackspot where this camera was :

[gz1]

Bob, a lawyer, was driving home over the Golden Gate Bridge after spending a great day on the ocean fishing. His catch, cleaned and filleted, was wrapped in newspaper on the passenger-side floor. He was late getting home and was speeding... Wouldn't you know that a cop jumped out, radar gun in hand, and motioned him to the side of the bridge. Bob pulled over like a good citizen.

The cop walked up to the window and said, "You know how fast you were going, boy?"

Bob thought for a second and said, "Uh, 60?"

"67 miles per hour, son! 67 miles per hour in a 55 zone!" said the cop.

"But if you already knew, officer," replied Bob, "why did you ask me?"

Fuming over Bob's answer, the officer growled and said in his sarcastic fashion, "That's speeding, and you're getting a ticket and a fine!"

The cop took a good close look at Bob in his stained fishing attire and said, "You don't even look like you have a job! Why, I've never seen anyone so scruffy in my entire life!"

Bob answered, "I've got a job! I have a good, well-paying job!"

The cop leaned in the window, smelling Bob's fish, and said, "What kind of job would a bum like you have?"

"I'm a rectum stretcher!" replied Bob.

"What did you say, boy?" asked the patrolman.

"I'm a rectum stretcher!"

The cop, scratching his head, asked, "What does a rectum stretcher do?"

Bob explained, "People call me up and say they need to be stretched, so I go over to their house. I start with a couple of fingers, then a couple more, then one whole hand, and then two. Then I slowly pull them farther and farther apart until it's a full six feet across."

The cop, absorbed with these bizarre images in his mind, asked, "What the hell do you do with a six-foot a hole ?"

Bob said, "You give him a radar gun and place him by a bridge!"

[exrtnz]

Here it is! We should do the same here!
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...037031,00.html

[burnz]

here's the original one
http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

[Outbackjack]

If they put their spy camera's out here in the NT people will just shoot them. They will have to put them in bullet proof glass. That will be expensive. They will have to double the fines, or better still, lower the limit to a "Scruby safe" 110kph.

[Zephyr]

It's a shame they are more interested in making money then saving lives.

Very sad indeed.

[TEaaron]

Originally Posted by lilscotty1987ba

with vicraods when u go 4 a licence test y is it they allow u to be doing 10 kmph more then the speed limit for 5 secs provided the tester is watching and at that split sec point where the carera is focused u have to be right on the speed???? i have been pulled over twice for speeding, the first time i got pulled over i was asked y i was speedeing and had my bullbar lights lights on (wiered in sperate to the head lights) and i said i had blown the fuse for my parkers and being 3.30 in the morning no1 was on the road and nothing was open for me to get a new fues!! well long story short i got a fine for being 16kms over. 3points (only get 5 on ur P's here) and 215 bucks!! i aslo got fined for not "dipping" my lights while being within 200 mtrs of another car!! i argued the point that the "car" which is white and has flashing lights was neither on the road or in sight! i got off the fine and got away with it thanks to a judge who though it was a bit un fair seing that the police officer and looked at the dash, blown fuse and seen the lights not working!!

Lol yeah is a bit funny about the testing situation.

I missed a 40km timezone limet as it was like 11am-3pm and it looked exactly the same as a school one (test was at 1:30)

I kept going at 60 not realising

And I still passed my test with 98%