Holden posts second-biggest financial loss on record

[janddbone]

That is still $800 million profit over the decade or so... Not a bad business to be in!

[zilo]

A 200 million dollar handout would have established a great electric vehicle manufacturing plant in Australia instead of another Holden 6 cylinder supposed green car dinosaur.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by zilo

A 200 million dollar handout would have established a great electric vehicle manufacturing plant in Australia instead of another Holden 6 cylinder supposed green car dinosaur.

no one want's an electric vehicle...
this world economy runs on the black stuff, capish.

[jpd80]

A $153 million loss on $4 billion revenue is really nothing much and could be likened
to a person on $40,000 income finishing the financial year with a $1,500 debt after
paying all other immediate obligations.

It looks like revenue was down around $300 million which may have been enough to throw out
last year's budget with insufficient profit to cover the planned expenditure in that particular year..

[GQ_Smooth]

If they weren't manufacturing, this wouldn't be a bad result. Why would GM want to make a profit in Australia when our company tax rate is higher than most manufacturing countries. Keep transfer pricing high, make little or no money on vehicle sales. Head office is happy because they are still selling vehicles, keeping other factories busy, and getting government handouts for making losses.

The theory does fall down because they still manufacture/assemble here (thankfully).

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by brett.r.johnstone

That is still $800 million profit over the decade or so... Not a bad business to be in!

I assume you meant over the last 12 years that the figures cover. But keep in mind that they probably made alot more of that money from selling imports, and then lost alot of it with local production. So the arguement might be that selling imports is a good business, but making locally is crap.

The other point to remember is that Holden have stated they got about $2 billion in subsidies over the last 12 years. So unless they continue (the subsidies), then its quite a shocking business to be in.

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

I assume you meant over the last 12 years that the figures cover. But keep in mind that they probably made alot more of that money from selling imports, and then lost alot of it with local production. So the arguement might be that selling imports is a good business, but making locally is crap.

Actually, in the early 2000s the profits would have come from local production given the dollar was at a reasonable level. I remember in 2001 when Toyota were scrambling to ramp up local production at Altona because they were losing tonnes of money on imports due to the dollar's weakness - which at the time was around US50c.

On another note, there is an opinion piece in the Oz today, again sounding the death-knell for the local industry. It mentions Ford in terms of "when they close" in 3 years rather than IF they close.

[Falcman0o7]

Originally Posted by DJM83

What, so Ford will then follow? Then you might have to 'heaven forbid' buy a new Ford to keep em in business.

I would NEVER buy a new car.

Just like a PC they are.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by burnz

no one want's an electric vehicle...
this world economy runs on the black stuff, capish.

Id go electric tomorrow if I could afford it...
JP

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

This is not good news for anybody, even us Ford fans. If VF fails to sell in sufficient numbers then who knows where this industry will be in the next 5 to 10 years.

try 1-2.

if a VF cant succeed, would Ford cut their losses and not bother with a Falcon beyond 2016? it just wouldn't be worth the risk.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by brett.r.johnstone

That is still $800 million profit over the decade or so... Not a bad business to be in!

not when you consider turnover. low single-digit returns. it doesn't take much to push them into the red.

[janddbone]

Well what would the figures be for GM worldwide? If you were to work out the ratio, I think we will find Holden one of their most profitable. So using the logic in this thread, they need to close the lot down or only manufacture with minimum wages around the world.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by brett.r.johnstone

Well what would the figures be for GM worldwide? If you were to work out the ratio, I think we will find Holden one of their most profitable. So using the logic in this thread, they need to close the lot down or only manufacture with minimum wages around the world.

Come again?? GM is actually making a profit!!

[WPR1]

Ford mightn't be selling as many cars but at least they are making a profit on them!

[janddbone]

If you read the whole thread, I am talking of the entire time frame mentioned... Over a decade.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by brett.r.johnstone

If you read the whole thread, I am talking of the entire time frame mentioned... Over a decade.

Well if that is the case, then GM already did what you suggested. The GM that loss all that money has closed down!! New GM is making money.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by brett.r.johnstone

If you read the whole thread, I am talking of the entire time frame mentioned... Over a decade.

Businesses do not look over a decade unfortunately.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by WPR1

Ford mightn't be selling as many cars but at least they are making a profit on them!

That isn't quite right

Are you talking globally or locally?

Globally: Both are making money
Locally: Ford AUST as not released their result for 2012 so we don’t really know for 2012. However, Ford AUST last reported result (2011) was a record lost for Ford AUST

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That isn't quite right

Are you talking globally or locally?

Globally: Both are making money
Locally: Ford AUST as not released their result for 2012 so we don’t really know for 2012. However, Ford AUST last reported result (2011) was a record lost for Ford AUST

Most of which was paper loss, not cash loss...

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Most of which was paper loss, not cash loss...

Which is why there's no excuse for another massive loss this year.

If Ford have written down their assets, i.e. Broadmeadows/Geelong plants like Holden have then I think they will again post another big loss this year.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Most of which was paper loss, not cash loss...

As an Accountant, this whole "paper loss" is the biggest load of crap!! A paper lost, just means they didn’t get there accruals right in prior years & over stated prior year Profits. It was a loss, a real loss!!

[janddbone]

Of course they look over that time frame, the entire industry is on that time frame, 5- 10 years is not a long time in automotive manufacturing... If it were not looked at in this way it would have been gone decades ago!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by zilo

A 200 million dollar handout would have established a great electric vehicle manufacturing plant in Australia instead of another Holden 6 cylinder supposed green car dinosaur.

Throughout Australia last month there were just 11 electric vehicles sold in total.

Sounds like a great plan, build something no one wants.

Electric vehicles are a pipe dream here.

[KW XRT]

Holden has laid a trail of destruction by sucking up 2 billion dollars in taxpayer funding it's time to cut the purse strings.As a tax payer of 35 years I'm astonished they don't have to tighten their belts like we all do.I mean to say how is it Government can give them 172 mill to keep them producing locally and they can blow 20 million probably more on V8 racing it's disgusting.
't

[burnz]

Originally Posted by KW XRT

Holden has laid a trail of destruction by sucking up 2 billion dollars in taxpayer funding it's time to cut the purse strings.As a tax payer of 35 years I'm astonished they don't have to tighten their belts like we all do.I mean to say how is it Government can give them 172 mill to keep them producing locally and they can blow 20 million probably more on V8 racing it's disgusting.
't

they are tightening their belt, how many lost there jobs.

[Road_Warrior]

They also spent $34 billion in Australia over the same period they got the $2bn in subsidies...so let them go and leave a $34 billion black hole in the economy then?

[davids_gxl]

why sponsor those sports teams,also to much spent on v8s commo cup

[mik]

The next 2 or 3 years may turn out to be a game changer for manufacturing, with a changing of the political gaurd, the possibility of conflict just pver the pond, any body's guess which way the cards will fall.

[BroadyFord]

Holden didn't do themselves any favors either when they gave their workers an obscenely excessive pay rise - somewhere in the area of 20+% - which was described by unions as "spectacular" and "extraordinary".

That doesn't do any favors to the entire industry TBH!

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by davids_gxl

why sponsor those sports teams

Advertising perhaps?