New MB A Class cheaper than a Commodore more Standard Equipment

[Mighty Reds]

The steering wheel looks nice though.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Pfft... so a Focus driver could be considered as someone who couldn't afford a proper Ford because they didn't buy a GT? Is that how that logic works? Seems stupid to me.

Only if you were constantly implying that your Focus actually was the same as a GT and FPV stood for "Focus Performance Vehicles"........

But then again I seem to remember reading somewhere that a GT is just an XR8 with a starter button.......

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm one for technology but that screen rates fairly high on my cheap afterthought scale.

It looks like they've designed the car, but forgot about the stereo and decided to chuck an aftermarket GPS on the dash.

for $36,500 I'd expect more than 90KW out of the thing, given my WS Fiesta puts out 88KW for less than half the price.

Oh well I'm poor now because my latest purchase so no new car for me next year.

[ltd]

Have owned Mercedes's before, they are the equivalent to our Ford/Holdens here and anywhere else in the world they're less than half the price we pay here. In Germany they're nothing special; they even use them as taxi's whereas here they are revered because they're expensive.
Ultimately, they're expensive rubbish; the equivalent to the new mid nineties Hyundai Excel with a six figure price tag - fit and finish is good, but once the warranty runs out sell it fast.
With all the cutting edge gadgetry in them they tend to break.... Often. Same as BMW's 7 series - has electrical issues all the time. Parts take weeks/months to come over and you're without your car whilst the car sits broken in the workshop. Ever wondered why a Mercedes/BMW workshop is so big? It's for the cars that can't be repaired until the parts arrive. Like Mercedes or BMW aren't aware of a little known means of travel called an aeroplane; they still send the bits by ship.
I had an S500 which I managed to get 80,000klm out of before things went bang, pop and drip. One side of the air suspension failed and the car dropped on the left side and bounced on the road, sending it violently yawing into the guard rail on the M4 at 100klm/h. After that, it took a serious fight to get the car repaired and resprayed.
Then the little light that illuminates the cluster blew. Waited 8 weeks for that, and it cost $1917.00 plus GST for that little xenon type globe - happened just outside of warranty too and Mercedes didn't want to know. There were more problems such as water pumps, hoses and other temperature related issues which put a serious dent in the account which led me to leave it in the garage for 4 years before I'd had enough and sold it for 12K.

We seriously have it good here with our local offerings, especially since the falcon often goes for several hundred thousand klm before needing expensive repairs. Need a clutch on your falcon? A few hundred dollars and its installed. For MB, try $3200.00 for the part which was built in Korea.
Done a head gasket on your I6? $1200.00 will see a dealer do it. For MB, try around 17K for a German V8 as they have to strip and machine the block as well as the heads.

It's all the little things such as parts, complexity and lack of reliability that make it a complete bucket of German poo.

[302 XC]

Most dont have their new car for more than 3,5 years or till the lease or loan is paid, sometimes that new car is long gone under 3,5 years
the old adage of, wait till it hits 100,000 or 200,000 Ks ,most unload that ford or holden under that as well
For a similar price ,but perhaps smaller,alot better build quality ,better features and possibly better resale , why wouldnt people step outside the box ???

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by ltd

We seriously have it good here with our local offerings, especially since the falcon often goes for several hundred thousand klm before needing expensive repairs. Need a clutch on your falcon? A few hundred dollars and its installed. For MB, try $3200.00 for the part which was built in Korea.
Done a head gasket on your I6? $1200.00 will see a dealer do it. For MB, try around 17K for a German V8 as they have to strip and machine the block as well as the heads.

It's all the little things such as parts, complexity and lack of reliability that make it a complete bucket of German poo.

Bingo. You've described my family's Euro experience.

Here at Ford Forums we spend a lot of time bemoaning the main Australian Ford product, but really we should be very sanguine. If you want something to complain about, try reading and empathising with the VW 118 TSi forums here in Australia...

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by ltd

Have owned Mercedes's before, they are the equivalent to our Ford/Holdens here and anywhere else in the world they're less than half the price we pay here. In Germany they're nothing special; they even use them as taxi's whereas here they are revered because they're expensive.
Ultimately, they're expensive rubbish; the equivalent to the new mid nineties Hyundai Excel with a six figure price tag - fit and finish is good, but once the warranty runs out sell it fast.
With all the cutting edge gadgetry in them they tend to break.... Often. Same as BMW's 7 series - has electrical issues all the time. Parts take weeks/months to come over and you're without your car whilst the car sits broken in the workshop. Ever wondered why a Mercedes/BMW workshop is so big? It's for the cars that can't be repaired until the parts arrive. Like Mercedes or BMW aren't aware of a little known means of travel called an aeroplane; they still send the bits by ship.
I had an S500 which I managed to get 80,000klm out of before things went bang, pop and drip. One side of the air suspension failed and the car dropped on the left side and bounced on the road, sending it violently yawing into the guard rail on the M4 at 100klm/h. After that, it took a serious fight to get the car repaired and resprayed.
Then the little light that illuminates the cluster blew. Waited 8 weeks for that, and it cost $1917.00 plus GST for that little xenon type globe - happened just outside of warranty too and Mercedes didn't want to know. There were more problems such as water pumps, hoses and other temperature related issues which put a serious dent in the account which led me to leave it in the garage for 4 years before I'd had enough and sold it for 12K.

We seriously have it good here with our local offerings, especially since the falcon often goes for several hundred thousand klm before needing expensive repairs. Need a clutch on your falcon? A few hundred dollars and its installed. For MB, try $3200.00 for the part which was built in Korea.
Done a head gasket on your I6? $1200.00 will see a dealer do it. For MB, try around 17K for a German V8 as they have to strip and machine the block as well as the heads.

It's all the little things such as parts, complexity and lack of reliability that make it a complete bucket of German poo.

You gotta be kidding comparing a Merc to a '90s hyundai.

Doing falcon clutch for few hundred dollars...

LALA land....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Stefan

You missed the point.

Alot of car buyers are driven by the value of expenditure not always the type of car.

Real world example:

My father in law has always owned Big Aussie V8s (Holden), not the base so new car was between $40K-50K. He now has no need to the big car but still spends the $40 - $50K. So then he bought a WRX, same price range. 3 years later buys an Audi A3 1.8T with DSG, same price range.

While the comparo seems silly, it is much more appropriate than you think as the car buying public shift to another style of car but still spend the $36K on a new car.

No-one is going from a Falcodore to a Yaris or an i30, but I bet prenty go from from Falcodore to a small Euro or Lexus....

No I get the point.

The fashion industry caught on a long time ago that there was money in making low end product for the "wannabe" market. The "look at me" generation just love to show off their D&G mobile phone, <insert expensive brand here> clothes, shoes and fake Tag or Omega as a fake Rolex is just too much of a give away.
This is the perfect car for them. You don't think there is already "look at me" targeted marketing? Do the catch phrases "Hot heels to go" and "Plug in and go" make you want to "Drive Further"?

A $36k tiny bubble car with a prestige badge. You can get an Aston Martin bubble car as well although I don't think it is available in Australia yet.

If you wish to compare to a Commodore or Falcon then look at the 1800kg V6 model Mercs, The A class is a Fiesta or Barina......

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Stefan

You gotta be kidding comparing a Merc to a '90s hyundai.

Doing falcon clutch for few hundred dollars...

LALA land....

And yes, I've had a dealer fit a clutch to an EL falcon 5 speed for a total of $319.00; $89.00 for a repco clutch kit, and a pre-quoted $250.00 for labour from Jubilee Ford back in 1999. The clutch may not have been as good as the Ford product, I wouldn't know because 2 years later the car was sold, but the point is there is no after market parts for MB.
How much do you pay for your clutches?

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

For a similar price ,but perhaps smaller,alot better build quality ,better features and possibly better resale , why wouldnt people step outside the box ???

Not a question as to why wouldn't they. It's happening now and has been for the last 5 years.

We all know falcodore sales are down and the Aussie car landscape has / is changing. More and more small cars plenty of Benz, BMW and Audi. Compare the amount of Euros now to 20 years ago.

When I was at school it was rare now to see German cars, now it's the norm.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by ltd

And yes, I've had a dealer fit a clutch to an EL falcon 5 speed for a total of $319.00; $89.00 for a repco clutch kit, and a pre-quoted $250.00 for labour from Jubilee Ford back in 1999. The clutch may not have been as good as the Ford product, I wouldn't know because 2 years later the car was sold, but the point is there is no after market parts for MB.
How much do you pay for your clutches?

Ok you're comparing after market clutch repair 14 years ago. Why was the clutch stuffed after one year? Car should have been under warranty.

So I guess it was an 20 year old 1970 Merc that you are comparing to a 90's Hyundai....

Yep all makes sense now apologies for my confusion....

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

for $36,500 I'd expect more than 90KW out of the thing, given my WS Fiesta puts out 88KW for less than half the price.

Oh well I'm poor now because my latest purchase so no new car for me next year.

Thats the point a few are missing I think? Silly article trying to find the negative to large Australian RWD cars (again) so they pull out the cheapest Merc and line it up against it.

Article should have been titled "Why is the Merc A $18,000 more than a Fiesta?"

I know just the badge is important to many but that much more? You do pay more for a badge that says GT ..... but then that is important to some of us

[mik]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

From the article-

To ensure buyers aren't scared off by high service costs, Mercedes has a fixed price servicing deal: $1400 covers all routine servicing for the first 50,000km. A Nissan Maxima V6 sedan costs almost $2000 to service over the same period.

it does`nt take long to clock up 50,000 k`s.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by mik

it doesn't take long to clock up 50,000 k`s.

It does if your car is a fashion accessory rather than a primary mode of transport.

[DJM83]

I do like the A class Benz but for 'around' that money I'd have an ST or an OPC Astra.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Mercedes do better press junkets...

You can be sure of it.

There (MB's) staff is 5 times that of Fords and the have the same again working via agencies, booking agents, conference organisers, and whatever. All this to sell 20 to 30 thousand cars per annum. A fraction of fords. All this whilst using many images and raw info sourced from Europe. Giving them access to great imagery at low cost.

Originally Posted by mcnews

Would you own it out of warranty........?

Never. They struggle to pay under warranty. And the bills are large.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by ltd

Have owned Mercedes's before, they are the equivalent to our Ford/Holdens here and anywhere else in the world they're less than half the price we pay here. In Germany they're nothing special; they even use them as taxi's whereas here they are revered because they're expensive.
Ultimately, they're expensive rubbish; the equivalent to the new mid nineties Hyundai Excel with a six figure price tag - fit and finish is good, but once the warranty runs out sell it fast.
With all the cutting edge gadgetry in them they tend to break.... Often. Same as BMW's 7 series - has electrical issues all the time. Parts take weeks/months to come over and you're without your car whilst the car sits broken in the workshop. Ever wondered why a Mercedes/BMW workshop is so big? It's for the cars that can't be repaired until the parts arrive. Like Mercedes or BMW aren't aware of a little known means of travel called an aeroplane; they still send the bits by ship.
I had an S500 which I managed to get 80,000klm out of before things went bang, pop and drip. One side of the air suspension failed and the car dropped on the left side and bounced on the road, sending it violently yawing into the guard rail on the M4 at 100klm/h. After that, it took a serious fight to get the car repaired and resprayed.
Then the little light that illuminates the cluster blew. Waited 8 weeks for that, and it cost $1917.00 plus GST for that little xenon type globe - happened just outside of warranty too and Mercedes didn't want to know. There were more problems such as water pumps, hoses and other temperature related issues which put a serious dent in the account which led me to leave it in the garage for 4 years before I'd had enough and sold it for 12K.

We seriously have it good here with our local offerings, especially since the falcon often goes for several hundred thousand klm before needing expensive repairs. Need a clutch on your falcon? A few hundred dollars and its installed. For MB, try $3200.00 for the part which was built in Korea.
Done a head gasket on your I6? $1200.00 will see a dealer do it. For MB, try around 17K for a German V8 as they have to strip and machine the block as well as the heads.

It's all the little things such as parts, complexity and lack of reliability that make it a complete bucket of German poo.

Too right, the big Aussie car will be the only ones I'd rely on out of warranty.

Ironic that people go on about badge snobbery and image when talking about the A Class/German Corolla, when it is the complete opposite of what Mercedes built its image with decades ago.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by ltd

Then the little light that illuminates the cluster blew. Waited 8 weeks for that, and it cost $1917.00 plus GST for that little xenon type globe - happened just outside of warranty too and Mercedes didn't want to know. There were more problems such as water pumps, hoses and other temperature related issues which put a serious dent in the account which led me to leave it in the garage for 4 years before I'd had enough and sold it for 12K.

We seriously have it good here with our local offerings, especially since the falcon often goes for several hundred thousand klm before needing expensive repairs. Need a clutch on your falcon? A few hundred dollars and its installed. For MB, try $3200.00 for the part which was built in Korea.
Done a head gasket on your I6? $1200.00 will see a dealer do it. For MB, try around 17K for a German V8 as they have to strip and machine the block as well as the heads.

It's all the little things such as parts, complexity and lack of reliability that make it a complete bucket of German poo.

I think most people who can afford a Mercedes S-class are filthy rich, and thus wouldn't give a second thought to the cost of repairs and parts.

Originally Posted by ltd

And yes, I've had a dealer fit a clutch to an EL falcon 5 speed for a total of $319.00; $89.00 for a repco clutch kit, and a pre-quoted $250.00 for labour from Jubilee Ford back in 1999. The clutch may not have been as good as the Ford product, I wouldn't know because 2 years later the car was sold, but the point is there is no after market parts for MB.
How much do you pay for your clutches?

Ah, not exactly comparing apples to apples then. How much would the genuine Ford part cost today? Granted, it wouldn't be anywhere near as expensive as M-B parts. I don't think the fact that there are no aftermarket parts for M-B is much of a problem. I prefer to get genuine parts over aftermarket anyway, even if they're more expensive.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Not a question as to why wouldn't they. It's happening now and has been for the last 5 years.

We all know falcodore sales are down and the Aussie car landscape has / is changing. More and more small cars plenty of Benz, BMW and Audi. Compare the amount of Euros now to 20 years ago.

When I was at school it was rare now to see German cars, now it's the norm.

Absolutely
Not only new cars goin against the main ford,holden camps
Look how many projects,builds, restos goin on out there that arent ford or holden
People are investing in the foreign old skool cars, cause some of them are better value than our own ford,holden brand
Out of 10 cars here,theres only 4 fords,( one of them is the daily ute) the rest foreign brands

[csv8]

Rolls Royce headlight is $30K!! that was posted here awhile back

[mcnews]

Old school cars definitely go foreign these days. You can get an awesome 60s Stang, Camaro, Vette or Cuda with all the fruit for less than you would pay for a replica XY, lol. It's hilarious really.

[Drizz06]

Yeah I think I'll have the focus St instead.
Pocket rocket over snob car any day of the week.

[joolz]

My main concern is the data on imported vehicles

"Imported cars now account for 90 per cent of new vehicles sold. A decade ago, imports represented 75 per cent of the market. Half a century ago, they represented less than half of new-car sales"

Before that he states this.

"The prices of imported cars are at record lows thanks to the sustained strength of the dollar, and Australians are living it up"

The people in Australian manufacturing aren't living it up but instead being made redundant and jobs going offshore to make these cheap vehicles...

They wont be all that cheap after they have 100% of the market.

[mcnews]

And a lot of them will be in wreckers when something minor goes wrong out of warranty that costs more to fix than the car would be worth :-)

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by mcnews

And a lot of them will be in wreckers when something minor goes wrong out of warranty that costs more to fix than the car would be worth :-)

How so?

Funny thing is wreckers are loaded with row upon row of 13 year old Falcodors. AU galore, plus whatever the Commo equivilent is. Toyotas, Mitsubishi of the same vintage.

Not too many Euros...

Certainly no 6 year old Mercs, BMWs or Audis.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Ok you're comparing after market clutch repair 14 years ago. Why was the clutch stuffed after one year? Car should have been under warranty.

So I guess it was an 20 year old 1970 Merc that you are comparing to a 90's Hyundai....

Yep all makes sense now apologies for my confusion....

You've made an ASSUMPTION on the clutch issue, meaning you made an *** out of "U" and "MPTION".

First of all, it was an early 1997 EL, and had 160,000klm on the clock. That's why it had no warranty. My brother was a sales rep, this was his car and he kept it for 2 more years, did another 100 plus thousand k's on the new clutch without issue. The point is here in Australia, we are lucky that there is sufficient volume for after market parts, and not the stringent intellectual property laws restricting after market parts manufacturers from making spares.
In Germany, you'd probably find the situation would be the reverse of here; as their car company is German, our car company in Australia is Australian. It's a matter of geography and licence.


You're still stuck on the comparison though.
The car I had was a 2003 W220 S500 which I bought purely because I wanted to buy one and for tax deduction purposes at the time.

On it was a lot of electronic gadgetry which looked amazing in the showroom, but translated into many glitches and visits to the dealer. After several components failed repeatedly and the car was off the road frequently, I learnt at the dealership that others had had similar experiences with the same failed components. If I had of bought a Lexus at the time it would have outlasted the Benz easily.

The 1997 Hyundai Excel was the updated version of the earlier 1995 car that won COTY. It was reasonably reliable but nowhere near as good as Hyundai is now. Between the S500 and the excel, build quality and fit and finish on both were not too good and the technology was not bad, but once you started entering warranty expiry time you find some things break again and again; much more-so in the Mercedes. Both do their job, but unless you spent another 100K on the S600 V12, you knew the car was the middle of the range with a lot of deleted features. Same for Hyundai at that time - it wasn't as good as the more popular corolla. Secondly, you knew the resale would be poo, just like the Hyundai, as big German cars value is in fact mostly tax - it doesn't quite depreciate the same way as the car does.

Then there was the issue of drive-ability; both had recalls to prevent fatal accidents. Then other things like plastics becoming brittle after a few years was also what they had in common. Both had problems which would be fixed by a dealer yet keep occurring as the the repair was more of the same faulty part. Essentially, both looked great but beneath the surface had a number of durability issues. This is not in any way like the Mercedes Benz's of old which would last and last for years.
The litmus test would simply be to ask yourself the following question; out of warranty, would I be prepared to keep this car or should I sell it just before it runs out.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by NX74205

I think most people who can afford a Mercedes S-class are filthy rich, and thus wouldn't give a second thought to the cost of repairs and parts.



Ah, not exactly comparing apples to apples then. How much would the genuine Ford part cost today? Granted, it wouldn't be anywhere near as expensive as M-B parts. I don't think the fact that there are no aftermarket parts for M-B is much of a problem. I prefer to get genuine parts over aftermarket anyway, even if they're more expensive.

Most W220 S classes now reside in areas such as the poorer areas like Bankstown and Punchbowl, because they're cheap given the cost of maintaining them outside of warranty, and are used as a credibility statement amongst young men whose parents hail from the middle east. Not exactly what you would call "filthy Rich". Suffice to say, owning one these days is difficult, as there is a large amount of interested parties in "borrowing" your pride and joy, then torching it.


As I wrote above, ford and holden parts are cheaper because the cars are built here. Mercedes and the other marque's have intellectual property protection preventing others from making after market parts.
I referred to the cost of ownership, my comparison is valid and frankly I don't know how apples have something to do with experience I proffered.

Maybe you and stefan and any others who love all things Euro over our cars might like to research a little on some of the European offerings, like VW and their 118 TSI engine and just how many have failed before finding another excuse to belittle the efforts of the Australian companies.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Stefan

How so?

Funny thing is wreckers are loaded with row upon row of 13 year old Falcodors. AU galore, plus whatever the Commo equivilent is. Toyotas, Mitsubishi of the same vintage.

Not too many Euros...

Certainly no 6 year old Mercs, BMWs or Audis.

http://www.eurocarparts.com.au/


And yes, there is plenty of cars less the 6 years old that they are dismantling right now....2010 C250... 2011 C180...2010 X5's, 07 E90's, 2012 535I...

And they arn't the only euro specialist around...

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Nikked

http://www.eurocarparts.com.au/


And yes, there is plenty of cars less the 6 years old that they are dismantling right now....2010 C250... 2011 C180...2010 X5's, 07 E90's, 2012 535I...

And they arn't the only euro specialist around...

No they aren't. There is this one too which I have bought stuff off for the Mrs BM. Everything you need .... not Pick a Part pricing either. Being only BMW wreckers they are massive and have cars that are way younger than a BA that are being pulled apart.
http://www.peninsulabm.com/

I have had Audi's BMW's, Range Rovers etc ...... but will always have Fords in the driveway so I can have something to drive when the others break down and can't afford to fix the euro's

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Nikked

http://www.eurocarparts.com.au/


And yes, there is plenty of cars less the 6 years old that they are dismantling right now....2010 C250... 2011 C180...2010 X5's, 07 E90's, 2012 535I...

And they arn't the only euro specialist around...

WTF, The cars have been in major accidents. Not being wrecked because they are due for a 50K service or written off because it needs a new headlight as was being alluded to.