Power lifting????.

[Josho]

Originally Posted by BlueJ

If you enjoy powerlifting, go for it, but keep it in check. As others have said remember that you will be putting far more load on your joints when deadlifting and squatting. Just because your muscles are strong enough to lift a weight doesn't mean that you should.

I used to find variety is the spice of life when weight training. I mixed up powerlifting (good for ego, bad for back), high-rep bodybuilding and even some weight lifting occasionally to keep things interesting.

I combined the weights with some regular swimming which kept me reasonably flexible.

Now I am a fat lazy slob lol but don't let that put you off...

I personally have never been injured although Iam a regular swimmer and warm up always. I enjoy powerlifting moreso than bodybuilding, I don't wish to push this on anyone but when I have ignoramuses bashing powerlifting, I will to come its defence.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Josho

Show me a reference where they "shag" your organs and I'll happily prove I'm wrong. People who use roids are NOT cheaters they are just as dedicated if not more than natural lifters look at IFBB pro's, although I must admit there are many newcomers to lifting who are too lazy to workout to build a good base and go straight to roids, this is not the case however of top IFBB pro's, powerlifters and the like.

How are they dedicated by having to use un natural drugs to help them perform above the level they would otherwise not be able to achieve. They take the soft option.

[Josho]

Originally Posted by Ruger

body building and power lifting you will shrink when you stop no matter what.
if yuo rgoing into power lifting for the sake of competing it would be rather pointless going up against people on drugs as you may have little to no hope. like a nitrous drag car vs non nitrous identicle car.
i say stick with bb because power lifting will only lead to injurys sloppy form heavy squats and deadlifts wont do much good.
think about what you will be like at 60 you wont be able to move from what you put your body through

Squat and Deadlifts are essential to build a strong base no matter if you do bodybuilding or powerlifting. Free weights always win against machine weights. A sound technique however is essential to staying injury free.

[Josho]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

How are they dedicated by having to use un natural drugs to help them perform above the level they would otherwise not be able to achieve. They take the soft option.

Wrong. Steroids give you the extra strength to get above the natural abilites of the human body. Proper steroid users (Pro BBers) are more dedicated than natural bodybuilders because bodybuilding is their job and their passion. Most natural BBers are not sponsered and have to maintain a full time job other than BBing.

[Josho]

Originally Posted by pb02

No offense to your mate but 135kg is not powerlifting. If he's one of the ones you mentioned earlier that weighs around 100kg he should be pushing around 200kg plus if he's "powerlifting".
I have a mate who used to powerlift now competes in natural bodybuilding. He has always been natural. 5'9" 78kg and benches 150kg for 2 reps.
True powerlifting or bodybuilding is a lifestyle. If you enjoy what your doing now keep it up. From personel experience the lifestyle sucks!

Actually 135kgs is powerlifting - a 50kg athlete benching 135kgs RAW is very good. You seem to think you need to lift a minimum amount to "powerlift" so what does one need to lift to be considered a powerlifter? I've seen people lift in the 125kg+ class who have just started and bench 60kgs - these guys get as much cheers as the guy that sets a state record. If you had so much experience you should know this.

[pb02]

Originally Posted by Josho

Wrong. Steroids give you the extra strength to get above the natural abilites of the human body. Proper steroid users (Pro BBers) are more dedicated than natural bodybuilders because bodybuilding is their job and their passion. Most natural BBers are not sponsered and have to maintain a full time job other than BBing.

Steroids themselves will not give you extra strength! This is a common missconception.
Steroids decrease the time needed to recover by repairing and healing at a greater rate. Many people I know have taken steroids and kept up with the same weights routine and been pretty dissapointed in the results.
Steroids will give you the ability to work muscle groups harder without the rest periods, therefore increasing the ability to build larger and stronger muscles.

[Josho]

Originally Posted by pb02

Steroids themselves will not give you extra strength! This is a common missconception.
Steroids decrease the time needed to recover by repairing and healing at a greater rate. Many people I know have taken steroids and kept up with the same weights routine and been pretty dissapointed in the results.
Steroids will give you the ability to work muscle groups harder without the rest periods, therefore increasing the ability to build larger and stronger muscles.

LOL, By aid of recovering and repairing they make you stronger - which thus makes them build strength. Steroids can be used to make you run faster throw better etc. etc. They need to be tapered to your needs.

[pb02]

Originally Posted by Josho

LOL, By aid of recovering and repairing they make you stronger - which thus makes them build strength. Steroids can be used to make you run faster throw better etc. etc. They need to be tapered to your needs.

Exactly. But the problem is most people think that the steroids themselves can do this. You have to increase your work outs and work a hell of a lot harder to get good results.
I've seen heaps of guys go on a cycle thinking it will make them bigger. They don't increase there work outs and only end up with one or two kg more after they finish the cycle.

[Josho]

Originally Posted by pb02

Exactly. But the problem is most people think that the steroids themselves can do this. You have to increase your work outs and work a hell of a lot harder to get good results.
I've seen heaps of guys go on a cycle thinking it will make them bigger. They don't increase there work outs and only end up with one or two kg more after they finish the cycle.

Bossxr8, read above. The majority of people who use 'roids are not lazy and taking the 'soft' option and like I said if anything they are more dedicated than natural BBers. Tho, I'am defiently not saying that natural BBers are not dedicated.

pb02, This still doesn't answer the question on what you need to lift to be considered a powerlifter?

[pb02]

Originally Posted by Josho

pb02, This still doesn't answer the question on what you need to lift to be considered a powerlifter?

Yeah, don't mind me. having seen the work and dedication involved in amatuer and professional BB and PL I get tired of hearing these terms used loosely. :

But your right, It's not how much your lifting, it's your dedication to the sport.

[MO]

Well roids are good for you and your lifting/bodybuilding..........pure and utter drivel...I've seen first hand the effects of roids....ever heard of roid rage.

There was a bloke I used to work with was so into his bb and roids...it took only the slightest thing to send him off in a rage and try to do damage to ppl....now he's a powerlifter...looks like a fat blimp and still goes off.

Yeah right!!!!!!

[Josho]

Originally Posted by MO

Well roids are good for you and your lifting/bodybuilding..........pure and utter drivel...I've seen first hand the effects of roids....ever heard of roid rage.

There was a bloke I used to work with was so into his bb and roids...it took only the slightest thing to send him off in a rage and try to do damage to ppl....now he's a powerlifter...looks like a fat blimp and still goes off.

Yeah right!!!!!!

Increased testostrone for a person with a unstable mental state will of course lead to roid rage, did I ever say it didn't? I don't know where your getting this idea of powerlifters being fat blimps?

Only someone ilinformed and ignorant to lifting, would say things like "Steroids are good for you blah blah"/sarcasm. I challenge you and others like yourself to find for me direct cause of death from steroids. I'll give you a hint: there is none. So before you mouth off in a sarcastic and aggresive tone inform yourself so you don't come across as ignorant.

[Josho]

Originally Posted by MO

Well roids are good for you and your lifting/bodybuilding..........pure and utter drivel

I don't exactly understand what your saying here but proper steroid use combinded with lifting is actually good for you.

[MO]

Alright Josho...where and when in this thread did death from roids come up or did I miss something?

Roids do, do damage to your body they are foreign and your body reacts accordingly...ask any asthmatic.

As for the fat blimps I can only go by what I witness.

Oh and just for the record I used to workout with free weights my best bench press being 180 my average 80/100.

Josho you are new to the forum and you don't know my history therefore I will go easy...because although I disagree with much of what you say at least you believe and are not afraid to say so.

IMO and my doctors roids are not good.

[Josho]

Originally Posted by MO

Alright Josho...where and when in this thread did death from roids come up or did I miss something?

Roids do, do damage to your body they are foreign and your body reacts accordingly...ask any asthmatic.

As for the fat blimps I can only go by what I witness.

Oh and just for the record I used to workout with free weights my best bench press being 180 my average 80/100.

Josho you are new to the forum and you don't know my history therefore I will go easy...because although I disagree with much of what you say at least you believe and are not afraid to say so.

IMO and my doctors roids are not good.

Firstly, Check my sign up date and you will be suprised. (tho I don't visit often )

I have no problem with your opinion and will not try to force my opinion on others although I will voice it. Because I hear almost daily people coming to me and trying to tell me that I'm wrong. Now I don't claim to be a veteran of the sport, although I've been around and the people saying this look like they've never touched a weight in their life.

My opinion is that proper use of steroids including Pre and Post cycle theraphy can get you what is humanly impossible, and this is appealing to me. Proper use will make you live and have the same degree of health (if not better, due to a healthy diet and frequent excersise) as the average John Citizen. Though you must understand the majority of steriod users - abuse, and commonly have unstable mental issues eg. severe narcissistic disorders which lead to severe bouts of anger. I respect your opinion but please don't come across as sarcastic and aggressive because it will automatically label you as what I call: "5lbs platers" ie chopsticks

[MO]

Josho...you and I shall agree to disagree..no problem.

But let me ask you this and this is very personal and I have knowledge from the femine gender...what do roids do for your manhood size.....be honest?

[Josho]

Originally Posted by MO

Josho...you and I shall agree to disagree..no problem.

But let me ask you this and this is very personal and I have knowledge from the femine gender...what do roids do for your manhood size.....be honest?

Honestly, While on 'Cycle' your testicals will decrease in size but with proper Post Cycle Theraphy they return to normal. The majority of the populace are ilinformed and think that it will decrease your P**** size but in actual fact nothing happens to that at all.

[MO]

Josho you obivously didn't read my post correctly...i.e. when I reffered to feminine knowledge...the bloke I spoke about used to share a house with me..
his use of roids diminished his ***** size to such that he wasn't even able to penetrate the feminine equivalent.

To the mods if this post violates forum rules then I have no problem if it is deleted.

Josho you are wrong about your belief in roids...I shall leave it at that ...Josho you have right of reply. Thats it for me on this topic!!!!!!

[Josho]

Originally Posted by MO

Josho you are wrong about your belief in roids...I shall leave it at that ...Josho you have right of reply. Thats it for me on this topic!!!!!!

After 15+ years of lifting I've had no negative effects from lifting or anything else. You are wrong.

[mr_xr8]

im more into to bodybuilding then powerlifting.
maybe you should have a look at www.t-nation.com and www.muscle.com.au

[robbo_23]

I can only rep. bench 30 kgs, you guys are crazy...

[BlueJ]

Great, a bloke who enjoys his workouts asks for advice and gets a thread about steroid use...

Josho, you called me an ignoramus who was bashing powerlifting...not at all. Well an ignoramus I may be, either you are clairvoyant or you know me from somewhere else. Otherwise how could you tell that I am an ignoramus from reading my one post? Maybe you are wise beyond your years.

I used to love powerlifting, I just got out of the habit of weight training in general - I had extra work commitments and I found it hard to spend enough time to keep it up.

I wish I had kept it up, you lose muscle naturally past the age of 30 and you can really see the differences once you get near 40...

So there you go Josho, I am old, fat and ignorant, anything else you want to tell the world about me?

[Josho]

Originally Posted by BlueJ

Great, a bloke who enjoys his workouts asks for advice and gets a thread about steroid use...

Josho, you called me an ignoramus who was bashing powerlifting...not at all. Well an ignoramus I may be, either you are clairvoyant or you know me from somewhere else. Otherwise how could you tell that I am an ignoramus from reading my one post? Maybe you are wise beyond your years.

I used to love powerlifting, I just got out of the habit of weight training in general - I had extra work commitments and I found it hard to spend enough time to keep it up.

I wish I had kept it up, you lose muscle naturally past the age of 30 and you can really see the differences once you get near 40...

So there you go Josho, I am old, fat and ignorant, anything else you want to tell the world about me?

Actually BlueJ you weren't part of that group who where ignorant, maybe you where confused by my post or maybe what I wanted to say wasn't typed correctly. I actually agreed with you on the part of swimming and lifting. I apologise if I can across as calling you ignorant - I actually read your post and thought 'atleast some guy knows abit about lifting.' Though I did disagree with you on injuries - if you warm up correctly 95% of the time you are going to injury free.

EDIT: Also the current and 8 time Mr Olympia is 40+ years old, theres something to think about.

[XR666T]

Discussions about AAS always go nowhere fast on any forum, best to leave that one alone.

I do more 'bodybuilding' style workouts myself following Chad Waterbury's 'Total Body Training' program from T-nation.com. I used to lift 5 days a week but have found lifting 3 days a week with one day for recovery in between each workout has worked well for me. I vary my reps too (day one will be 5 reps, day two - 12 reps, day three - 8 reps) so I sort of get the best of both worlds.

I Bench, Squat and Deadlift religiously :Reverend:

[chich]

Originally Posted by Josho

Your training partner and you are ricers "all show and no go", IMO. But in saying this a "skin and bones" who is lifting the same weight as you must not be lifting too much, because I have never seen "skin and bones" benching 315lbs. You seem to be forgetting that quantity (amount lifted) is needed to get quality(good body) I have never seen an IFBB pro that can lift 'light' weights.

I completely disagree but at the end of the day your opinion is your opinion. I can assure you we don't train like pansies and we're not about all show and no go. We lift heavy, QUALITY weights, meaning form is almost perfect in all of our excercises. Unlike your (obvious) aim, ours isn't to become a mountain of muscle - its to get big. My definition and your definition of 'big' and 'massive' are obviously different.

In regards to the weights I lift read your post again because the majority of it sounds like dribble.. where in my post did i claim that i benched 315lb or make ANY reference to the weights I, or my training partner lift??

[AUIIIXR8]

Okay some simple facts:

Muscle never (thats NEVER) turns to fat. It's mainly a case of eating habits.

Power lifting is good for size but won't do much for definition.
I trained resonably hard for a few years and never used any drugs. Got asked the question on a regular basis though. I'm not a tall bloke and was a 'hard gainer'. Perserveerance is the key.

As for power lifting. Big risks in this sport. Very easy to do some real damage. You might not feel it for some time but you will.

Just my 2c

thanks

[Josho]

Originally Posted by chich

My training partner and i always say - its not what you lift, its what it looks like you can lift. Too many people get sucked into comparing weights (hense d**k sizes) and they either:

a) get injured or
b) wonder why they're not getting bigger

We see it all the time at the gym... guys that are literally skin & bone lifting the same weights as we do even though we're 2 or 3 times bigger. They seem to forget its not quantity but quality.

Originally Posted by Josho

Your training partner and you are ricers "all show and no go", IMO. But in saying this a "skin and bones" who is lifting the same weight as you must not be lifting too much, because I have never seen "skin and bones" benching 315lbs. You seem to be forgetting that quantity (amount lifted) is needed to get quality(good body) I have never seen an IFBB pro that can lift 'light' weights.

Originally Posted by chich

I completely disagree but at the end of the day your opinion is your opinion. I can assure you we don't train like pansies and we're not about all show and no go. We lift heavy, QUALITY weights, meaning form is almost perfect in all of our excercises. Unlike your (obvious) aim, ours isn't to become a mountain of muscle - its to get big. My definition and your definition of 'big' and 'massive' are obviously different.

In regards to the weights I lift read your post again because the majority of it sounds like dribble.. where in my post did i claim that i benched 315lb or make ANY reference to the weights I, or my training partner lift??

Sorry my friend Bodybuilding is the car equivilent of a ricer no matter how much you say its not. Ricers are people that have nice looking cars but don't have the power to back their looks up. Bodybuilders, sure if you are a top ameatur or pro you are strong but you have to remember top IFBB pros are bigger (measurement wise) than the majority of PLers and Strongmen yet in some cases lift a 1/3rd of the weight and at best 3/4.

I'm sure you don't train like pansies I never once said you did, but to say that PLing is comparing dick sizes about how much you SQ, BP and DL is completely moronic. I can easily say that Plers don't care(as much) for image like bodybuilders and bodybuilders are the way they are because they lack d*** sizes and need to make up fot it.

Once again top bodybuilders are much larger (measurement wise) than Powerlifters. (Don't quote me on this, but I'm sure this is 99% of the time this is the case, I've never heard of a Pler or strongman that has 24+inch arms, at 5%BF.)

I never once said that you lift 315lbs (it must be much less) But If you guys are so 'big' as you say, you must be lifting a fair amount. You can't get 'big', well atleast not in my book without atleast lifting 225lbs in all of the 'big 3' or the equivalent in other excersises. And I have never ever seen 'skin and bones' lifting that amount or more. Sorry but ALL of your post sounds like dribble you can't even follow simple logic, you are ignorant of powerlifting and lifting in general and you sound like one of those cocky bodybuilder types that get all up tight when they see a younger or 'smaller' guys lifting the same weight as them.

If you want to be a bodybuilder fine, but when you start ripping through powerlifting with aggressive and ignorant comments I will embarass you and show people like the thread starter that there is another side of the coin, which IMO is more self rewarding.

[Josho]

Originally Posted by AUIIIXR8

Okay some simple facts:

Muscle never (thats NEVER) turns to fat. It's mainly a case of eating habits.

Power lifting is good for size but won't do much for definition.
I trained resonably hard for a few years and never used any drugs. Got asked the question on a regular basis though. I'm not a tall bloke and was a 'hard gainer'. Perserveerance is the key.

As for power lifting. Big risks in this sport. Very easy to do some real damage. You might not feel it for some time but you will.

Just my 2c

thanks

For upper body size being shorter is actually easier to gain muscle, you have a shorter range of motion due to limb size and can lift more. Aswell as joints being smaller so the muscles has less space to 'grow' compared to a taller person who has big limbs and hence a bigger range of motion.

Still, gaining muscles mass as you stated is all gentic. It is wonderful to hear that inspite of this you still persevered which as you stated is the key. No matter what you genetic ability if you have no desire or perseverence your destined to fail. The only problem I have (and its not just with you) is that people in this thread have an infatuation that powerlifters are 'blimps' 'fatties' etc.

Here are some examples of top powerlifters who are not 'fatties':

Scott Mendelson, a Bench Press specialist that has recently benched 1008lbs and a claimed gym lift of 1052lbs. He also squats over 1000lbs. He is a one of the elite powerlifters of today.



Dave Tate who has best lifts of Squat 935lbs Bench Press 610lbs and deadlift of 740lbs.




Now don't get me wrong there are many 'fatties' in powerlifting but it is completely ignorant and false to say all powerlifters are fat.

[Josho]

Oh, I forgot to add Powerlifting has an extremely low ratio of Injuries:hours played ratio and is considered an extremely safe sport statistically due to highly quality equipement and huge safety measures (Experienced spotters, medics on stand-by etc)
Soccer and Rugby has the highest injuries:hours played ratio.

http://www.focusedtrainers.com/news/...e%20Safety.pdf

I've referenced what I have said so people attempting to rebut my comments on the safety aspect of powerlifting will now have to show credible referencing or they will be ignored. I understand also that powerlifting by a mere amount is considered more dangerous than bodybuilding or 'hyper trophy gain' as they state, but in comparison to other sports its hardly dangerous. Contrary to what is being said.

[BlueJ]

Righto Josho, I apologise to you

I thought you were having a go at me in your post and I stand corrected.

I never got injured in spite of training intensively, but there was some wear and tear on my lower back due to the deadlifts. If you know what you are doing - IF - I agree you will be generally OK. Make sure your technique is good.

Originally Posted by Josho

EDIT: Also the current and 8 time Mr Olympia is 40+ years old, theres something to think about.

I'll put it this way - if you don't maintain muscle bulk you can start to look real old real quick. In my opinion squats and deadlifts help with posture as well, because you can't lift properly without a straight back and you get used to maintaining good posture.

I especially recommend weight training for women as they get older but the first thing they all say is "No I don't want to look like a body builder" :

They seem to think that 5min a week in a gym is enough to make them look like Lou Ferrigno (showing my age now)