Mitsubishi acts to remedy 380 botch

[buickman]

Originally Posted by Ringo

What is this talk of the 300c.....they have sold a couple of hundred of the suckers....big deal.

The big big fleets couldn't care less about FWD or RWD. The care about safety equipment (OH+S) and lease costs and minimising financial risk

I think they are taking a big share of the Fairlane & ltd sales

[turboute]

Originally Posted by Ringo

What is this talk of the 300c.....they have sold a couple of hundred of the suckers....big deal.

The big big fleets couldn't care less about FWD or RWD. The care about safety equipment (OH+S) and lease costs and minimising financial risk

They sold out of a couple of hundred suckers... I heard that there is getting to be a rather long waiting list for them. esp the V8's.

The other thing that fleets care about is resale value which does have alot to do with what the public want. If most of us had the choice to spend an extra 2-3k for a RWD we would, even if the cars were origionally the same price. So I a company could sell the 10 cars they want to get rid of for 2-3k more then they get 20-30k more back in total, which makes a big difference.

[Rob]

I took a 380 for a drive recently, it was very nice... couldnt complain about the handling and dynamics for everyday driving. Having a punt, you'd probably notice the FWD issue, but really, its a good car. My biggest gripe was the lack of visual cues to identify different models. HSV/FPV visually very different to the bread and butter cars. 380 GT isnt.. chrome on the tail lights and nice rims do not a GT make...

Still, I really hope MMAL comes through, competition is a wonderful thing.

[Polyal]

^^true 300C is rather niche, but they could export them to other RHD markets if the demnd is there.

[brenx]

I know my works not looking at the 380 as a fleet vehicle. They are using Falcon E gas cars, Toyota camrys, Holden Commodores and Toyota hybrid 4cyls.

They've realised the error of their ways with the E Gas Falcon though. They can't fit 5 people and their court documents in the car. It means they'll phase out the E Gas Falcon from our fleet pretty quickly. A bit like the new Toyota Hiace's really. If you over 5'2"? You'll hit your head on the way in and out if your not careful.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by brenx

They've realised the error of their ways with the E Gas Falcon though. They can't fit 5 people and their court documents in the car.

Cant get 5 and docos in a falcon? Why not? and what WILL fit them in?

[merlin]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Cant get 5 and docos in a falcon? Why not? and what WILL fit them in?

I think he is talking about the diminished boot space due to the gas tank? Though we took a BA LPG falcon from Sydney to Falls Creek with 4 people, 2 weeks worth of luggage and two sets of skis withough any hassles...

[brenx]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Cant get 5 and docos in a falcon? Why not? and what WILL fit them in?

A Falcon without a massive gas tank in it. They don't have a deep enough boot for the boxes the court documents are stored in. The spare wheel is in the way apparently. I've been lucky enough to not have to drive one.

[merlin]

Re: The Magna (I mean 380). Styling has killed the thing. We are performance enthusiasts and consider more than just looks in a car but most buyers go on looks first of all (then delve deeper).

It all started with the last model - great car but so ugly (ala AU Falcon). Then they had the chance to turn it around with the 380 and release a car that styling wise is also pretty horrid if you ask me. Hence rotten resales. Ford turned it around with the BA, Mitsu have stuffed up, I don't think anything they do short of a whole new look will save them.

[Mark351]

Fleets won't touch the 380 because they are scared of being burnt alive by crappy resale (well, crappier than Falcon/Commodore). 300Cs will sell well to fleets due to a perceived higher resale.

[4Vman]

Sorry but RWD 6cyl in a large base model family sedan is as Australian as a meat pie with sauce...

[4Vman]

Its a proven fact that its more efficient to "Push" the car with the rear wheels than "pull" it from the front wheels.
Drive a FWD car on a muddy or gravel road and see how easy it is to get bogged compared to a RWD.
Tow something with any weight and a FWD becomes quite dangerous compared to the RWD, most family cars need to be veristile enough to tow or go a bit off road, so RWD is chosen.
FWD exists only to save money in manufacturing, and its issues or compromises are far less noticable with small 4cyl cars.

[Fairlane]

You got to understand though that FWD cars, are more efficient (and the yanks love them in the snow) for what they are and FWD is a 'safer' vehicle for 90% of the population, people dont now how to handle oversteer very well. They are more spacious and quieter than its RWD alternatives. Really only 20% of people out there care that a cars RWD and haveing the 380 cater to the RWD would get **** all sales, how many would forgo a RWD Holden/Ford for a a 380, only a few even if it was a RWD 380. Mitsubihsi would be better off in concentrating on murdering the Camry and Mazda 6 market.

Ultimately AWD is the future, there is no way in a million years that mitsu will go RWD, no way. It may go AWD again and i for one pray it does, FWD and RWD will die out and AWD will be the way to go, most likely through transverse mounted setups, ie. Ford Fusion

Really the 380 is just the right car at the wrong time, if it had of been released in mid 2002 to replace the TJ it would have sold well, but as it is its in trouble, it needs the Mitsu 2.4L and major fleet sales to win, there is some hope, if the new 4cyl Toyota Camry isnt all its made out to be, it may yet suceed.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Theres a facelift on the way im told, Mitsubishi will be putting more thing standard in the 380 and also carrying the VRX boot/tailights across the range. The Rear bumper is too bummy.

As for them spending 600 million.. BULLИИИИ..

Ford Spent that on the BA and built it from the ground up based on the AUs platform, all mitsubishi did here was stole some overseas Galants and restyled the front and rear, the steering wheel and interior is basically idetical, as for the V6 they are fully imported now to and not designed or manufactured here like the Ford I6.

Mitsubish are rooted... its only a matter of months before they finish up the 380 for good, sad but extremely true from the rumours in the motoring industry. Dealers have given up on the car and are currently having large battles with mitsubishi about where they are to go, i know one dealer thats trying to reduce its 380 allocation as it does not have the space to store anymore.. Dealers are trying to live off Commercial sales and small cars like the Lancer, which also is taking a beating as of late..

Theres nothing left in the Mitsubishi range which sells well, The Pajero is dated and sells no where as much as it use to in the early 90's, the 380/Magnas a flop, and the Lancers dieing. The Triton is now outdated, (10 years old, and the same goes for the Express Vans. As for the Outlander and Colt neither are selling well due to competition in their particular markets. Mitsubishis biggest competition is Toyota, and if they dont smarten up their range soon then they wont exist..

[coyote]

My biggest concern is that if Mitsubishi does not get it's act into gear it will all fall in a heap and there will be a whole lot less parts of cars made here in Australia.

The less parts made here , the less efficent the whole parts industry will be, the less efficient they are the less parts they will be able to sell to Ford, the less Australian designed and made parts in the Falcon the less competitive it will be if there are fluctuations in the Aussie $,

One severe bout, and lack of comercial success for the brand for a quater or two and we won't have a Aussie Falcon to follow the current batch.

Buy your kids a Job, Buy Aussie Made & support Aussie owned when you can, that way there will be jobs here for all of us.

[Paxton]

MITSUBISHI Australia has again slashed prices of its 380 V6 sedan in an effort to reinvigorate sales. Today it cut $2000 off the price of its base Series II 380 ES sedan, while also taking the scalpel to VR-X, LX and GT pricing.

The entry-level five-speed manual ES now starts at $27,990, with the five-speed automatic adding $2000 without any loss of equipment.

The company has clearly sent a signal to its key large-car rivals, while also taking aim at several four-cylinder Japanese offerings.

The new pricing will be a permanent offering and is part of a new marketing and sales push to drive sales, according to Mitsubishi Australia chief executive officer, Rob McEniry.

Mr McEniry said the ES model would maintain its existing equipment levels.

The price cut represents a saving of $6500 on the ES since it was launched six months ago. When it was launched the base model was $34,490.

The VR-X, LX and GT also offer significant savings of between $1500 for the VR-X, $3000 for the LX and $3500 for the GT.

The $40,990 LS has been dropped, replaced by a sporty SX model priced at $32,990 for the five-speed manual.The company says it has been able to deliver the cuts by trimming dealer margins in an effort to end discounting and bolster the car’s reputation. Those buyers who have just bought a 380 will not miss out either.

In an effort to maintain buyer loyalty, Mr McEniry said the company would offer rebates to buyers who bought the 380 ES at the old price.

Up to 1500 retail buyers will be eligible for $2000 cash-back or the equivalent in goodwill from dealers.

Some fleet owners would also be eligible.

Although Mr McEniry would not disclose how much this would cost, GoAuto believes it is more than $2 million. Rebates will also vary depending on what prices had been paid.

Apart from 380 price cuts, the company has also taken the scalpel to pricing on other passenger vehicles.

MMAL have killed off a model, re-released the Sports model as the SX, and dropped the pricing on All models. They stack up as sensational value.

380 sedan:
ES - $27,990
ES (a) - $29,990
SX - $32,990
SX (a) - $34,990
VRX - $36,990
VRX (a) - $38,990
LX (a) - $42,990
GT (a) - $44,990

Taken from: http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25715D001171D2

[sphell]

I agree that besides its looks, sticking to FWD has killed the 380. Buyers in the 'big 6' market are one of the most clued up bunch of mofo's around when it comes to buying a car. They like agressive looking cars, RWD, big engine capacities and lots of kilowatts.

For example, I was initally impressed by the Toyota Aurion's looks/specs until I took a peek under the chassis at the motor show and saw that it was FWD. Now it just doesn't interest me. I've driven plenty of FWD car's and I just don't like them.

[Poetic Justice]

The way I see it, is if the base model 380 looked more like the GT model, it'd sell a whole lot more.

Base model 380 is just butt ugly and nothing is desirable about it.

[pks54]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Do you really think these people know/care if its FWD or RWD, V6 or I6?

Originally Posted by XPcoupe

I agree, the swinging voter, that looks at different brands/models does not care if it is FWD or RWD, it is all about the look and keeping up with the Jone's. why do people buy a brand of car.

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I honestly believe most buyers (esp fleets) DONT care or even know if a car is FWD vs RWD.

Most people say its not the best looking car around i agree as well. but i want to point out something about the fwd bussiness. I see many pple that have a 380 as a company car, either work/friends/sales reps that come in etc. . everyone says the same thing, we always loved our previous ford/holden but i dont like the 380 as its not a rwd. and this is comming from ppl that are not car nuts whatsoever.....

think again, if you think that ppl dont care if its fwd or rwd in a big aussie car.

[Dave_au]

This is becoming quickly one of those rather infamous threads that probably only ends up serving to discredit FFAU.

Obvously the blue blood always runs strong on here, it is afterall FF, but I would have hoped personally for more of an open view rather than sudden discounting and uninformed view solely on own opinion without consideration of facts.

To those people who complain about the 380 being fwd, and that only rwd sells in large, there are plenty of other large FWD cars that we all seem to forget about:

Maxima
Accord
Accord Euro
Volvo
Camry
Saab
Hyundai Sonata
Mazda 6 (can argue this is a medium sized car, but the point remains)

Have a look at those sales and you'll see they dont do too badly. I'd also quite willingly argue that if the Falcon or the Commodore did switch to fwd, then yes they would lose some sales, but I doubt it would be that much. Afterall, with the way imports have been going these days, it would be safe to argue that there are more front wheel drive cars on the road than rear wheel drives.

Whoever mentioned the platinum sparkplugs, these are required to be changed every 100,000. Removing the intake manifold takes about 10 minutes for a qualified mechanic to do. And suprise suprise, most cars on the road are FWD and suffer the same problem. Additionally, tyres usage should not be an issue when the tyres are rotated at the correct intervals.

90% of the time RWD is pretty much just a marketing gimmic, you dont need rwd to drive from one side of the city to the other. Towing, yes its preferable but a 4wd would tow better. Performance wise, well yes, rwd is better, but how often do the majority of the cars on the road get pushed for performance? Hardly ever.

[xfalconz]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

This is becoming quickly one of those rather infamous threads that probably only ends up serving to discredit FFAU.

Obvously the blue blood always runs strong on here, it is afterall FF, but I would have hoped personally for more of an open view rather than sudden discounting and uninformed view solely on own opinion without consideration of facts.

To those people who complain about the 380 being fwd, and that only rwd sells in large, there are plenty of other large FWD cars that we all seem to forget about:

Maxima
Accord
Accord Euro
Volvo
Camry
Saab
Hyundai Sonata
Mazda 6 (can argue this is a medium sized car, but the point remains)

Have a look at those sales and you'll see they dont do too badly. I'd also quite willingly argue that if the Falcon or the Commodore did switch to fwd, then yes they would lose some sales, but I doubt it would be that much. Afterall, with the way imports have been going these days, it would be safe to argue that there are more front wheel drive cars on the road than rear wheel drives.

Whoever mentioned the platinum sparkplugs, these are required to be changed every 100,000. Removing the intake manifold takes about 10 minutes for a qualified mechanic to do. And suprise suprise, most cars on the road are FWD and suffer the same problem. Additionally, tyres usage should not be an issue when the tyres are rotated at the correct intervals.

90% of the time RWD is pretty much just a marketing gimmic, you dont need rwd to drive from one side of the city to the other. Towing, yes its preferable but a 4wd would tow better. Performance wise, well yes, rwd is better, but how often do the majority of the cars on the road get pushed for performance? Hardly ever.

Both towing and performance are actually quite important to a large number of Falcon/Commodore owners.
I can say for sure that the level of grip and balance in my XR6T would not be possible if it were FWD and it gets pushed within responsible limits and the RWD config certainly is part of what makes the car.
There would be no way it could put 240Kw thru the front wheels.
There have been some definite torque steer issues with FWD turbos like SAAB for example and most FWD cars like mazda, Lancer and Volvo use 4WD for their performance cars.
If the Falcon changed to Fwd i think many people would be suprised and dismayed! lots of sales would be lost especially in the XR range.
But it seems the 380 is a competant car but just at the wrong time, many people would prefer Japanese imports to local FWD large sedans.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by xfalconz

Both towing and performance are actually quite important to a large number of Falcon/Commodore owners.

Not having a go mate, but how many falcons or commodores have tow balls? How many people even have a trailer that they regularly tow?

How many people take their cars to the track (or just as equally, lost their licence)?

I disagree with what your saying, I doubt that many people have an idea with what their driving, sometimes its just marketing, maybe they are wise enough to know its a rwd car that their in, but seriously, how much day to day driving do you honestly do where a rwd would have any advantage over a fwd.

We have to remember that we, as a forum of car enthusiasts, represent at most, probably less than 10% of the motoring public, and what car manufacturers sometimes love to do is to inspire the car enthusiast to rant and rave about a particular model, and just by viral influence, affect the majority of the motoring public. How many of us on here have had people saying to us "Fords suck because of XYZ". Well for years Ford and Holden have had car enthusiasts saying "FWD suck", but apart from honest track day performance, and the ability to tow a bit more, I honestly struggle to think where a FWD car would be of greater benefit to Joe Blow than a rwd car.

Yes, RWD cars handle the corners better 8/10, yes RWD has better power delivery, and yes, a FWD car has little it can put on a proper RWD v8. But the fact remains, how often would most law abiding citizens and non car enthusiasts actually benefit from a fwd over a rwd.

(Off topic, I did see a boat that would have been 1800kg easy getting towned by a 380, not the smartest idea.)

Originally Posted by xfalconz

There would be no way it could put 240Kw thru the front wheels.There have been some definite torque steer issues with FWD turbos like SAAB for example and most FWD cars like mazda, Lancer and Volvo use 4WD for their performance cars.

Agree, although once your aware of the torque steer it wont catch you off suprise much. Funny you say 240kw, thats what Toyota is claiming for the supercharged sportivo model of the Aurion. I hope they make it awd, otherwise its pretty pointless. Mitsubishi probably got to the unassisted end of the torque/kw range of a fwd car with the ralliart magna. Obviously the likes of Toyota and some US cars have gone over this now, I guess a good TCL system is needed, although your still going to lose quite a few kws.

Originally Posted by brenx

The people you must meet must be pretty dumb. The women at my work know whether a car is fwd or rwd. I'd say that percentage would realistically be around 30% wouldn't know.

If you stop hanging around car enthusiasts, I would say that 80% of people have no clue whether their car is fwd or rwd.

Cars are really quite a funny thing, they represent probably the second most expensive asset to your house that you own, and brand marketing and fashion trends have maximum impact.

We dont really care who builds our house, so long as it's built, some of us don't really care if you shop at Kmart, Country Road, Industrie or Morrisey. We don't care if people wear a pulsar, citizen, seiko, omega or cartier watch, nor do we care if we bought the groceries from Kmart, Harris Farm or the now defunct David Jones range. We don't really care about what brand of boat we have, we might just pause for a minute over the brand of outboard engine, but then we get on with the rest of our lives. But mention a car brand and all hell breaks loose.

Originally Posted by Deadman

Two words. "Fleet Sales"

Same words that Ford, Holden and Toyota love to hear too!

[pks54]

dave_au. dont want to come off having a one on one with you, and this is not totally directed to you but i just want to clarify myself. but obviously there are other big 6 cyl fwd cars on the market. what i mean is mistubishi spent the good part of the year saying they are gonna takle the big car market. no brainer here, ie take on ford and holden. and this is what everybody was expecting. and what do they launch, a fwd.

what im saying is mistubishi already had a big 6cy just like camry etc etc. they should have stuck with the magna platform and name and put a big marketing push on some all new refined car "thingy".e.g such as when the camry went "wide body", remember that back then....
anyway they went head on.. and will never (generally) get converts over from ford or holden being a fwd car.

for people that only know how to turn the key and fill up with petrol, well no, they would not know what wheels do what. but from people that even try to think they know about cars, such as the ones im seeing getting company cars, that they think have a i6 commo or a v6 in a falc (....jeeeez), they even themselves remark they dont like the 380 and liked their previous rwd falcs/commos. even if they will never experience any over/under steer characteristics of each platform or even tow for that matter.

this has nothin to do in seeing only blue, just saying they (mistu) took on a wrong approach in naming and marketing. i actually feel sorry for mistubishi as it also coincided with rising fuel prices. good luck, they will need it..................with the 380

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by pks54

dave_au. dont want to come off having a one on one with you

No worries mate, its all good

what i mean is mistubishi spent the good part of the year saying they are gonna takle the big car market. no brainer here, ie take on ford and holden. and this is what everybody was expecting. and what do they launch, a fwd..... just saying they (mistu) took on a wrong approach in naming and marketing. i actually feel sorry for mistubishi as it also coincided with rising fuel prices. good luck, they will need it..................with the 380

Agree, the whole approach to marketing the 380 was wrong. With so much emphasis on it's engine size, it screamed "fuel guzzler" to some and "no v8" to others.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the car itself however
Most importantly - pricing was wrong (although it remains to be seen whether MMAL were actually pushing for a good retail margin to what the new prices are or whether cost cutting was undertaken)

Pre-launch consumer evaluation failed (cant turn off rear vents, no rear seat grab handles, no reach steering wheel, dash pattern not too popular - all really minor adjustments that should have been picked up).

Market campaign was wrong
Timing to market was wrong

[xfalconz]

Its not only the FWD issue and the wrong timing with fuel prices etc but throughout the history of large Aussie cars its been a Ford Vs Holden thing spearheaded by their performance sedans.
People are passionate about their cars and it seems Mitsu missed trying to make inroads and taking customers away from Ford/Holden with their platform,same engine spec and 'boring' image.

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by xfalconz

Both towing and performance are actually quite important to a large number of Falcon/Commodore owners.

True. But with regards to towing it always make me laugh when people make such a big deal about it. Reality is that most people never tow anything more than the average box trailer weighing half a tonne.

[xfalconz]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

True. But with regards to towing it always make me laugh when people make such a big deal about it. Reality is that most people never tow anything more than the average box trailer weighing half a tonne.

This thread goes from one thing to another, i mentioned some people NEED a RWD for towing, the point being besides a 4WD a RWD sedan is the best alternative.
Im certainly not making a big deal out of it, just an observation and i probably wouldnt expect many people who do tow (boats,cars excluded) to be towing much more than a box trailer anyway.
Right having said that i dont really give a toss about trailers or 380/FWDs anymore due to the fact Performance is what counts to me and my RWD XR6T ute is no comparison to any FWD/380 IN MY OPINION.

[merlin]

Re. Rear wheel drive vs Front wheel drive.

To those saying it makes no difference except on a track, I will have to disagree. Having owned mostly RWD's myself, the partner has always had small FWD's the latest being a Corolla. Even if I am just running errands or commuting, if I take the Corolla, corners that I would normally take with ease it the Falcon see the Corolla constantly wanting to push wide, big understeer on any sort of decent corner speed...in short it just feels horrid at anything more than regular pace (which of course is what it is designed for). In the wet it is an absolute joke - people reckon RWD is dangerous in the wet, i reckon RWD is at least predictable and more controllable unlike FWD understeer into a gutter.

Seriosuly I don't drive that quick on the road but even my partner will manage to understeer it when I am with her if she goes in too quick to a corner (speeds the falcon would take easily). I then imagine a larger, heavier 380 FWD and can only think that the problem would be much worse, which isI'msure what drives a lot of peoples opinions.

All of the above is just my opinion of course _2:

[coyote]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

True. But with regards to towing it always make me laugh when people make such a big deal about it. Reality is that most people never tow anything more than the average box trailer weighing half a tonne.

Yes but how many people know how to load a trailer properly.
How many know the correct towball weights

The issue is that even with a 500kg trailer which equates to only 1/8th of a cubic metre of sand and trailer a front wheel drive can handle eratically if there is too much weight on the ball, where as the same poorly loaded trailer on a RWD will be comparativly safer.

and so I don't start an arguement this is based upon the following -
SG of dry sand >75 micron - <400 micron is 2.65
331 KG leaving 189 Kg for the trailer which is not too far from the norm I would guess.

Now 1/8 of a cubic metre is about 1/2 to 1/3 of that generally put into a trailer from so as you can see this argement is based upon very conservative figures. now at 10% towball weight our eveny loaded 500kg GVM trailer should have 50 kg on the ball,

now for some pie in the sky additions spare wheel on draw bar, majority of load to front of trailer you could have 150kg tow ball weight without even trying, now imagine traveling at 80Km/hr over an undulating highway go over a creek crossing (normal bridge level with road in good condition) as you rise and fall with the expansion joints over twice this load may be applied to the towball, Now we are talking 300kg some 1 to 1.5 m behind the rear axle

Are you getting frightened in your FWD towing yet ??? have not even put wet surface or outer idiots cutting you off into the equation.

Me, I would not even put a towbar on a FWD.

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

This is becoming quickly one of those rather infamous threads that probably only ends up serving to discredit FFAU.

Obvously the blue blood always runs strong on here, it is afterall FF, but I would have hoped personally for more of an open view rather than sudden discounting and uninformed view solely on own opinion without consideration of facts.

To those people who complain about the 380 being fwd, and that only rwd sells in large, there are plenty of other large FWD cars that we all seem to forget about:

Maxima
Accord
Accord Euro
Volvo
Camry
Saab
Hyundai Sonata
Mazda 6 (can argue this is a medium sized car, but the point remains)

Have a look at those sales and you'll see they dont do too badly. I'd also quite willingly argue that if the Falcon or the Commodore did switch to fwd, then yes they would lose some sales, but I doubt it would be that much. Afterall, with the way imports have been going these days, it would be safe to argue that there are more front wheel drive cars on the road than rear wheel drives.

Whoever mentioned the platinum sparkplugs, these are required to be changed every 100,000. Removing the intake manifold takes about 10 minutes for a qualified mechanic to do. And suprise suprise, most cars on the road are FWD and suffer the same problem. Additionally, tyres usage should not be an issue when the tyres are rotated at the correct intervals.

90% of the time RWD is pretty much just a marketing gimmic, you dont need rwd to drive from one side of the city to the other. Towing, yes its preferable but a 4wd would tow better. Performance wise, well yes, rwd is better, but how often do the majority of the cars on the road get pushed for performance? Hardly ever.

Exactly