australian oil refineries to close

[mik]

it`s east to blame the many low income workers for wanting a better wage, just because some bright politician decided to join the fair trade agreement that was fair for the other countries and not ours, our living standards are going down the toilet, while the cost of living and doing business is rising faster than an elevator in the Dubai tower.
should we lower our standards because countrys like china have little or no social safety net, have child labor, have poor safety standards, why would you choose to join into a
an agreement that you know they will be /are exploiting from day one.
by the sound of it some of you blokes think we need to go down to poverty level to compete with these jokers,
but many are already going down that path, and this goes for our industry too.
the refinery`s are just another indication of our industry slowly being ground into the dust by rising costs.

[irish2]

It isn't about working cheaper, it's about working smarter. Obviously silly things like the carbon tax don't help matters much.

Interesting reading the paper, many companies have gone into recievership over the past few months. I wonder how much larger that section will get after June 30.

[Dr Smith]

Put your hand up who is going to be first to take a 25% pay cut so the company they work for can become more competitive. Oh by the way, your groceries, home & mortgage, car, school fees, footy tickets etc....won't be dropping by 25%....

yeah right, how come the "economically better off" want those less wealthy to take a pay cut. Let's start with the CEO's and work down, we'll actually save more before we get down to the factory hand's pay cut....

[ivorya]

The problem is the mining boom. That's what is raising the cost of living so much. Ave wage now is $68k.
If we look at the US and what's happened over there over the past yr's, it will show you exactly what will happen to us when the boom goes BOOOOMM!!
How much expertise will this country lose in the meantime? It's OK though, we'll just increase the workload buy shiping in people from overseas.
(Sarcasm)

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Put your hand up who is going to be first to take a 25% pay cut so the company they work for can become more competitive. Oh by the way, your groceries, home & mortgage, car, school fees, footy tickets etc....won't be dropping by 25%....

yeah right, how come the "economically better off" want those less wealthy to take a pay cut. Let's start with the CEO's and work down, we'll actually save more before we get down to the factory hand's pay cut....

I will quite happily take a 25% pay cut if they promised me a job for the next thirty years.

[mick457]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

What is a fair wage in your honest opinion? 50k? I agree that maybe there might need to be an attitude readjustment when it comes to wages.......

the problem is if everything wasnt so dam expinsive then we wouldnt need these so called high wages
im a butcher and i earn $47g a year which is 750 odd after tax, how do you feed a family pay bills ect on that
dont no how my dad did it when we were young

[ILLaViTaR]

Who cares, the price is controlled globally right??

That's the one advantage of a system designed to rip us off.

[Road_Warrior]

I'm in the public service and I can tell you now there is no money in the kitty for the rest of this FY and none next FY for projects etc...Treasury is being very glum and tight and today I was told there will be layoffs soon...that's right, permanent PS employees being laid off. So it's not just something that is afflicting industry etc.

[z80]

Hands up all those willing to take a 50% pay cut to keep manufacturing, oil refinery jobs in australia?


Anyone got their hand up?


yep...here's one...although a little off the mark...

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I will quite happily take a 25% pay cut if they promised me a job for the next thirty years.

Oh yeah...must be the fault of the carbon tax....

(you know, the the tax that hasn't been implemented yet )

[prydey]

Originally Posted by z80

Hands up all those willing to take a 50% pay cut to keep manufacturing, oil refinery jobs in australia?

i assume your hand is up then??

[Gobes32]

I willl take a 50% pay cut, but house prices need to come down to a quarter of what they are now. I don't need a high wage to live, I need a high wage to pay off my house. Once it is paid off, I can happily live off the smell of an oily rag.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by TMC

The first industrialised nation was the UK. It also became the worlds first de-industrialised nation. They import everything now and their economy is cactus. They probably didn't see that coming 60 years ago. Guess where Australia is heading.

so why is the UK sterling (GBP) doing so well that they refused to drop it in favour of the Euro as their preferred currency? it's not greece you are thinking of?

back on topic, it's sad we are loosing so much manufacturing.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by music189

those idiots in Canberra wouldnt even think of fuel security they are to busy looking after themselves to see the whole joint is going to pot.

God help Australia cause the Government wont

Its just another industry closing . they wont think past the next election let alone 5 to 10 years ahead

[dddd]

I have said it before and I will say it again.
There has been 3 main changes that the federal government have implemented in the last 2-3 years that has already set our path for destruction, they don't need to do a thing now its already done, our industry and our living standards are all going to take a huge hit and there is nothing that can be done, its all set in place

1 Rudd's "renewable energy policy" a certain percentage of electricity must be green and this percentage must increase every year. We must remember renewable energy is approximately ten times more costly to produce (per kw hr) than coal powered.

2 The new work place regulations have made it far more difficult for people that run their companies to compete with overseas companies

3 the carbon tax will crucify Australian companies competitive capabilities

Australia only ever had one advantage for its industry and that was cheap power (coal) Hell the government must know this and has deliberately attacked it, one can only assume it wants living standards in Australia to be lowered and has certainly done whats necessary to achieve that goal

[SB076]

Originally Posted by z80

Oh yeah...must be the fault of the carbon tax....

(you know, the the tax that hasn't been implemented yet )

And you are aware that businesses look at any future issues that may reduce their ability to compete and lead them to reduce investment or simply move offshore?

The carbon tax isnt the sole reason why business is moving offshore - but it doesnt help either and may be the final straw for some business.

[z80]

Originally Posted by dddd

I have said it before and I will say it again.
There has been 3 main changes that the federal government have implemented in the last 2-3 years that has already set our path for destruction, they don't need to do a thing now its already done, our industry and our living standards are all going to take a huge hit and there is nothing that can be done, its all set in place

1 Rudd's "renewable energy policy" a certain percentage of electricity must be green and this percentage must increase every year. We must remember renewable energy is approximately ten times more costly to produce (per kw hr) than coal powered.

2 The new work place regulations have made it far more difficult for people that run their companies to compete with overseas companies

3 the carbon tax will crucify Australian companies competitive capabilities

Australia only ever had one advantage for its industry and that was cheap power (coal) Hell the government must know this and has deliberately attacked it, one can only assume it wants living standards in Australia to be lowered and has certainly done whats necessary to achieve that goal

I completely disagree...with all your above opinions.

[z80]

Originally Posted by SB076

And you are aware that businesses look at any future issues that may reduce their ability to compete and lead them to reduce investment or simply move offshore?

The carbon tax isnt the sole reason why business is moving offshore - but it doesnt help either and may be the final straw for some business.

I am acutely aware, and I disagree with your opinion of the consequences of a carbon tax.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by z80

I am acutely aware, and I disagree with your opinion of the consequences of a carbon tax.

Fair enough, thats your opinion and I respect that - my statement above was based on my experience in manufacturing and dealing with other manufacturers (both customers and suppliers) Sadly I know of firms that have already scaled their investment down and have started laying people off due to the curernt economic climate, rising costs and the carbon tax. A lot of businesses have done already done the sums and calculated how much the carbon tax will take off their bottom line.

[mik]

it`s not rocket science, business look at their financial now status and future , any one with some budgetary nous or some sense of financial survival are not going to wait until they are bankrupt, you`d have to be naive to think otherwise, although some who don`t have a hope of changing their circumstance will just go on a wing and a prayer and hope things get better.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by z80

I completely disagree...with all your above opinions.

Perhaps you may enlighten us on where my simple logic is wrong, maybe even tell us how the three points of change I mentioned actually benefited Australian industry ?????????????????????

I was good enough to back up my thoughts with some logic, I would dearly love to hear yours

I realise there must be an awful lot of die hard loyal union and labour voters (me for one) out there that must be very concerned about the changes this government has made over the past 2-3 years, but surely there must come a time when we have to accept that the present labour government has nothing in common with previous labour governments and is in fact going down a very left wing socialist path

[irish2]

Going a bit OT but for a carbon tax to have its' desired outcome then there needs to be a decrease in consumption of goods. It is not hard to see where less demand for goods will get the economy.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by irish2

Going a bit OT but for a carbon tax to have its' desired outcome then there needs to be a decrease in consumption of goods. It is not hard to see where less demand for goods will get the economy.

is that sarcasm?

less demand for australian good as they will be dearer, more demand for imports as they will be over represented in the scheme of price.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by burnz

is that sarcasm?

less demand for australian good as they will be dearer, more demand for imports as they will be over represented in the scheme of price.

My point exactly. Not really healthy for our country at all.

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by Rockape

This kind of thing makes me mad. What the hell is wrong with our leaders in this country ? Cant they see whats happening?

There is nothing wrong with the people we call the leaders of the country. They are doing as the shareholders of Govco Pty Ltd want.

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm in "manufacturing", we're more of a custom workshop, multinational group.

Our CEO got fired and they've replaced him, could be something to look into I reckon.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by dddd

I have said it before and I will say it again.
There has been 3 main changes that the federal government have implemented in the last 2-3 years that has already set our path for destruction, they don't need to do a thing now its already done, our industry and our living standards are all going to take a huge hit and there is nothing that can be done, its all set in place

1 Rudd's "renewable energy policy" a certain percentage of electricity must be green and this percentage must increase every year. We must remember renewable energy is approximately ten times more costly to produce (per kw hr) than coal powered.

2 The new work place regulations have made it far more difficult for people that run their companies to compete with overseas companies

3 the carbon tax will crucify Australian companies competitive capabilities

Australia only ever had one advantage for its industry and that was cheap power (coal) Hell the government must know this and has deliberately attacked it, one can only assume it wants living standards in Australia to be lowered and has certainly done whats necessary to achieve that goal

Yes all annoying but it needs to be done eventually. Before all that happened though these utilities were government owned, they were sold off and privatised, that is what destroyed us. Bills weren't even noticable before that.
Ever since that happened rates have gone through the roof not to mention the increase of power failures and lower quality control.

Bills weren't even a quarter of what they are now until they wen't private. That's the real problem.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I'm in the public service and I can tell you now there is no money in the kitty for the rest of this FY and none next FY for projects etc...Treasury is being very glum and tight and today I was told there will be layoffs soon...that's right, permanent PS employees being laid off. So it's not just something that is afflicting industry etc.

Cause the government wasted so many billions of dollars on failed schemes and cost blowouts they are now trying to reel back the budget in surplus, and will cut the throats of anyone to get it, the country and its people be damned.

Gillard will do anything to cling onto power.

[cupic]

Originally Posted by music189

those idiots in Canberra wouldnt even think of fuel security they are to busy looking after themselves to see the whole joint is going to pot.

God help Australia cause the Government wont

Its just another industry closing . they wont think past the next election let alone 5 to 10 years ahead

The Govt is just nonexistence sold off to the highest bidder to do its bidding

[z80]

Originally Posted by dddd

Perhaps you may enlighten us on where my simple logic is wrong, maybe even tell us how the three points of change I mentioned actually benefited Australian industry ?????????????????????

o back up my thoughts with some logic, I would dearly love to hear yours

okay.....

Originally Posted by dddd

1 Rudd's "renewable energy policy" a certain percentage of electricity must be green and this percentage must increase every year. We must remember renewable energy is approximately ten times more costly to produce (per kw hr) than coal powered.

It's called climate change abatement.
Sounds like a sound strategy to me, I am a climate change believer.

Let me ask you this...we export what type of coal?

And what type of coal do we burn in our power stations?

Which colour coal has a far greater CO2 emmission per megawatt produced?

Originally Posted by dddd

2 The new work place regulations have made it far more difficult for people that run their companies to compete with overseas companies

I am certain that the exchange rate is a much more significant factor with the relative and highly visible desparity between accessible asian labour markets making it extremely attractive to not employ australians where possible.

Originally Posted by dddd

3 the carbon tax will crucify Australian companies competitive capabilities

Apart from liberating rhetoric,can you prove it?

I can't find any evidence to support your assertion....except Tony Abbott says so....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by dddd

3 the carbon tax will crucify Australian companies competitive capabilities

Originally Posted by z80

Apart from liberating rhetoric,can you prove it?

I can't find any evidence to support your assertion....except Tony Abbott says so....

looks like someone has the wool over their eyes