Junkies vs Hoons

[FCleader]

Originally Posted by MAD

There could be so many more things that influence those figures. What's the per-capita average of HIV infections in both locations? Per-capita average of homeless people in each location?
Case studies always remove all of the clutter and simplify as much as possible because it is easier to use as an example.

As I said the info wasn't referrenced so think what you want about it.

Originally Posted by MAD

So let me run with some hypothetical figures...
Lets say 5% of all road deaths are hooning related, and 80% of them are innocent people (ie. not the driver, the decision maker). That gives us about 57 people killed by the actions of a hoon.
Are those 57 not worth enough for something to be done to help curb the incidence of hooning related deaths, rather than something that looks good as a headline?
How many people killed by the decisions of a person-that-would-use-an-injecting-room have been saved by introducing injecting rooms?
What are the priorities?

I think there should be as much done about hooning as possible to reduce deaths and damage caused by hooning, but what you have suggested so far is subsidising events such as go karting, which is rewarding people for hooning.
Maybe something along the lines of putting hoons on probation/counselling, limiting the power of the cars they drive (for a period of time) and mandatory defensive/advanced driving courses, would be more appropriate. Im not sure.

Originally Posted by MAD

If you want to argue state of mind, then what effect does testosterone have on the decision making centres of the brain? If upbringing can be blamed for drug usage, can peer pressure ever be blamed for hooning?

The upbringing of a molestered or beaten child or someone who has grown up around drugs is completely different to that of a person being peer pressured to do a burnout. And I know that people take drugs for a lot of different reasons peer pressure included, but drugs have a huge effect on a person and can quickly turn into an addiction before the person realises.
No I dont think peer pressure could ever be blamed for hooning as at the end of the day you make the decision, not other people.

Originally Posted by MAD

So a drug user should get a hand out simply cause they're addicted? Didnt they ever make a choice regarding the usage of drugs, they just woke up one day addicted?

They don't get hand-outs, these programs are aimed at treating an addiction, for people who can't afford private rehab centres.
Yes they did make a decision to take drugs, however, drugs have a much greater effect on the brain and can cause serious mental illness, which needs to be treated.

Originally Posted by MAD

It's got nothing to do with rewarding people for their actions, It's about trying to find something that might actualy help reduce the incidence of it occuring.
Although positive reinforcement for good driving behaviour would be fantastic, but how do you photograph that?

As mentioned before what you have suggested is rewarding people for hooning, well it seems that way to me.
I actually think that authorities are doing quite alot to reduce hooning already. Especially if you think about how many people take drugs compared to how many people hoon.

[Zero_PSI]

Clean up the streets...kill a crack whore

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by MAD

Spinning your tyres on the street is illegal under the "hoon laws" but it is near on impossible to organise for a bunch of mates to get out to a skidpan to have at it and just let rip.
At best we have occasional track (circuit) days at our cost, or friday night drag racing, again at our cost.

Do 'hoons' go round robbing people of their hard earned goods to fuel their habit?
Do you cause physical harm to your body every time you spin your tyres?
Does doing a burnout alter your mental state, and potentially require resusitation?

Look at the cost setting up and running the two 'venues'.
Also, the government wont take hoons of the road as they are a major form of income.

[351henryv8]

What if they made Learner drivers do a day in a skid pan. These are available (at cost) and seeing how in NSW anyway the learner has to do 120 hours of learner driving (this might have changed??) the cost would be insignificant to the other money they have to lay out anyway. The advantage of this is the learner may learn to drive better in such conditions. I learned to drive on dirt, but these days there is no dirst around Canberra anymore as they have closed off all the forrests where we used to practice our dirt skills. If you can drive on dirt , bitumen is easy. As for injecting rooms, this is a health issue, as drug dependance is not a choice. One could also argue that a bit of "hooning" is not a choice for some (including myself) as it is something that most people grow up with and grow out of when they reach say 30????Then they just do it more carefully, like a heroin addict that has been using for most of their adult life, they are careful and can live longer than a cigarette smoking alcoholic. Kids need a place to experiment with cars, and I was lucky in Canberra when I was young as dad let me drive the VW in ALL of the new empty suburbs and carparks before they were built on, and then when I got my licence we had all of the pine forrests (now closed) to explore and you could also go up (bush / suburban ) hills with bitumen roads and do burn outs etc without causing any harm except to the tyres / car. (if you had a holden hahah). People are always going to take drugs and people are always going to "test out their car".

[SEZ213]

How did this turn into a drug thread?

The original post by the OP was that those who shoot up get a designated place to do it, the 'hoon' doesn't have such avenues readily at their disposal. Which is very evident, particularly when you look at the Gold Coast and see that the tracks are being shut down...they're essentially forcing them onto the streets, as opposed to being positive in their approach and understanding that there are people who want to race their vehicles, and give them a place to do it.

Willowbank is up the road from me, so I'm not so worried, but for a lot of people, places like Willowbank are reserved for weekends, and not everyone has that kind of cash available...

I think the long and the short is heroine is illegal, so is racing on the streets, and yet they banter to the heroine users by creating 'safe' places for them, and punish car enthusiasts by removing their avenues for enjoyment.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

How did this turn into a drug thread?

I think the long and the short is heroine is illegal, so is racing on the streets, and yet they banter to the heroine users by creating 'safe' places for them, and punish car enthusiasts by removing their avenues for enjoyment.

Because people like yourself are asking why there's injecting rooms for addicts but no skid pans for hoons. They're two completely different methods and aims for tackling a problem.

There's a strip at Easter Creek which I believe is open at least every Wed. Has it curbed hoon behaviour? Right now about a block from me some clown is doing a burnout. I live 15 minutes drive from Eastern Creek where people are doing them legally right now. I can now hear another clown screeching round corners with a fart can ricer.

You just can't equate an addiction to acting like an idiot in a car. One is a dependency and one is a choice. I'd prefer there were avenues for those unable to afford treatment to break the cycle of drug addiction because those services are better than none at all. I'm ambivalent about a skid pan doing anything to curb boneheaded behaviour on public roads.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Because people like yourself are asking why there's injecting rooms for addicts but no skid pans for hoons. They're two completely different methods and aims for tackling a problem.

There's a strip at Easter Creek which I believe is open at least every Wed. Has it curbed hoon behaviour? Right now about a block from me some clown is doing a burnout. I live 15 minutes drive from Eastern Creek where people are doing them legally right now. I can now hear another clown screeching round corners with a fart can ricer.

You just can't equate an addiction to acting like an idiot in a car. One is a dependency and one is a choice. I'd prefer there were avenues for those unable to afford treatment to break the cycle of drug addiction because those services are better than none at all. I'm ambivalent about a skid pan doing anything to curb boneheaded behaviour on public roads.

I see your point re 'hoons' and Eastern Creek, but disagree with your analogy that heroine is a dependency...first and foremost it's a choice, and always has been. One simple word will suffice for both of these groups to not get into trouble - No.

There is a big difference between hoon and car enthusiast, the 'hoon' will never go to Eastern Creek, the car enthusiast will...the car enthusiast (for the most part) appreciates the rules of the road. Unfortunately Joe Public doesn't see that distinction...and they really should.

I'm not going into the drug part, except to say it turned the hometown that I loved into a cesspool, all courtesy of 'those in charge'.

The avenues that have been previously available to car enthusiasts are being removed (Gold Coast is case in point). I for one would like to know why?

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I see your point re 'hoons' and Eastern Creek, but disagree with your analogy that heroine is a dependency...first and foremost it's a choice, and always has been. One simple word will suffice for both of these groups to not get into trouble - No.

Initially it's a choice that very quickly becomes a dependency. Injection rooms attempt to turn that dependency back into a choice. There would be very few people able to kick a heroin habit by simply saying no.

[FGII-XR6]

the bigest problem with this thread is it's an us against them thread, addiction is a health issue that needs to be addressed on many fronts. hooning is a choice made in the absence if any addiction so it is still a choice, that having been said there is a geniuine need for facilities where drivers can cut loose without endangering the general public. I see a need for services for both issues but this "we are more worthy" is not a valid arguement, for starters they would be funded from completly different government departments, and closing one program that is proven to work to finance a recreational activity is just plain madness.
those interested need to lobby their local members, this won't take 5 minutes to fix but how do you think the needle programs got off the ground it was a long hard slog by Drug and alcohol professionals including 1 doctor who risked his career to get some action
so come on get ready for action instead of wanting things handed to you on a platter , lazy whingers will get nothing