Is N/A Dying?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Diesels do under 4000 RPM much better, I'd rather diesel engines over petrol engines for all daily driving duties.

But some of the crap which is appearing on diesels is questionable, SCR systems are BS and same with DPFs.

What is going to kill diesels in passenger cars is tightening emissions rules on particulate matter: like with what Euro 6 proposes.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

What is going to kill diesels in passenger cars is tightening emissions rules on particulate matter: like with what Euro 6 proposes.

Yep, have a look at the latest Mercedes Sprinters etc, they've got this "blue efficiency" crap, which is code for selective catalyst reduction, they have diesel exhaust fluid which needs to be done each service.

VW has it too, they call it "ad-blue".

Its stuff like this which is ruining diesel engines, I think they're introducing the regulations too soon and engineers are coming up with bandaid solutions to attend to the problem in the small time frame they have.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The next big step is low revs, keeping turbo petrol engines under 4000 rpm. And it will go even further than this in the future to keep emissions and fuel consumption down. BMW are talking this up as the way they will be heading.

One of their engineers even thought sub 3000 rpm might be needed to pass future emissions levels.

The BMW 1M runs out of puff over 5500rpm, which is a farcry from just a little while ago when everything M powered could hit 8k

[Polyal]

I too still prefer na, the boss302r to me is a more impressive engine than the miami.

Im going to be very very interested in the next bathurst 12hr. Hsv's have typically done better in na form than anything from our side (regardless if there was some dodgey's going on). Now they have also gone FI...who will come out ontop?

But for your every day cars its hard to beat what these newer engines can deliver. I cn accept it, doesnt mean I have to like it

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

What is going to kill diesels in passenger cars is tightening emissions rules on particulate matter: like with what Euro 6 proposes.

Opel and Mazda are already Euro 6 compliant. Benz Sprinter has it - so that technology will go into Benz cars as well.
PSA working on diesel hybrids.

[chevypower]

Even when the power output of a turbo DI engine matches a larger N/A engine, the turbo has better low-end torque, less power loss at high altitude, and increased efficiency. A small downside, there is still a little turbo lag. I have noticed lag in some N/A cars too (probably to do with ECM or transmission calibration).

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Even when the power output of a turbo DI engine matches a larger N/A engine, the turbo has better low-end torque, less power loss at high altitude, and increased efficiency.

The local Nissan dealer was telling me the new TD 2.5 L navara will make mince meat of my 4.2 EFI n/a patrol, right across the range,power,torque ,towing and use less than half the juice doin it ....
But , and here is the big question will the navara at 250 Ks,and 15 years old do what my patrol still does now .....

Small boosted engines are impressive none the less, but when the ford 4 L is boosted it opens up a whole new ball game
Pretty good when one of the tuffest if not the tuffest aussie built engine is the turbo ford 6 ....

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

The local Nissan dealer was telling me the new TD 2.5 L navara will make mince meat of my 4.2 EFI n/a patrol, right across the range,power,torque ,towing and use less than half the juice doin it ....
But , and here is the big question will the navara at 250 Ks,and 15 years old do what my patrol still does now .....

Small boosted engines are impressive none the less, but when the ford 4 L is boosted it opens up a whole new ball game
Pretty good when one of the tuffest if not the tuffest aussie built engine is the turbo ford 6 ....

Cylinder displacement isn't in any way indicative of structural integrity of the components. Though unnecessary complexity can cause problems (because there is more to go wrong), which is probably what you're getting at.

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by chevypower

A small downside, there is still a little turbo lag. I have noticed lag in some N/A cars too (probably to do with ECM or transmission calibration).

Not an issue with variable turbine geometry.

Extensively used in trucks and now moving into passenger cars. Go for a ride in a current 911 Turbo - it's a tidal wave of instant torque.

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by chevypower

A small downside, there is still a little turbo lag. I have noticed lag in some N/A cars too (probably to do with ECM or transmission calibration).

not on a well designed car, take a falcon ecoboost for a drive, floor it and see if you feel the same about lag. I drove one expecting heaps of lag but it was very responsive off the mark

[mex351]

Different level I know but I went N/A over boost and even stayed 6cyl over V8.I even got a NAT ASP FG XR6 but if I was buying more for me than family I would have went supercharged V8 as it could be made to go fast and still tow my ute around.

[ebxr8240]

To get power from N/A engine cam specs create emission issues..
While forced induction keeps air flow constantly flowing the same direction..
With very mild cam specs with VERY little overlap where both inlet and exhaust are not open at the same time.. Denser / compressed air has more oxygen to burn all the fuel..

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

To get power from N/A engine cam specs create emission issues..
While forced induction keeps air flow constantly flowing the same direction..
With very mild cam specs with VERY little overlap where both inlet and exhaust are not open at the same time.. Denser / compressed air has more oxygen to burn all the fuel..

Yes but there needs to be a balance of heat there too to get the correct burn in the cat...?

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Yes but there needs to be a balance of heat there too to get the correct burn in the cat...?

Yes that's correct !! Modern EFI fluctuates between rich and lean to keep cats working efficiently..To protect them as well.. Which is why WRX engines have two 02 sensors either side of the cat...

[GT-spec15]

Yes NA is on the way out.

It's possible to get impressive power/economy from a smaller forced induction engine. The Japanese have known this for decades.

Even BMW/Merc Benz are going down the turbocharging path.

[Bossxr8]

The problem with VGT and petrol engines is sky high exhaust temps. Porsche had major dramas with this on the 911 Turbo, and so far are the only ones that use it on a petrol engine.

I doubt it will ever be mainstream.

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The problem with VGT and petrol engines is sky high exhaust temps. Porsche had major dramas with this on the 911 Turbo, and so far are the only ones that use it on a petrol engine.

I doubt it will ever be mainstream.

Mainstream on diesel, yes. My truck has it, it's awesome.

Petrol - I agree with you.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The problem with VGT and petrol engines is sky high exhaust temps. Porsche had major dramas with this on the 911 Turbo, and so far are the only ones that use it on a petrol engine.

I doubt it will ever be mainstream.

I think the EGT problem with VGT turbos is that the Garrett design is fairly poor, Holset has a better design to deal with heat.

Its only aftermarket but I've seen Holset HE351VE turbos being used on petrol engines with good results.

[dieseltrain79]

I was merely pointing out that turbos don't die at 100,000kms and do last along time when boosted or pushed hard .

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by dieseltrain79

I was merely pointing out that turbos don't die at 100,000kms and do last along time when boosted or pushed hard .

I have clocked up 187k in my 2005 WRX and it is running as strong as ever. There are several WRXs in the club with 300k+ on original hardware.

You can break anything, but regular servicing and half a degree of mechanical sympathy will see a turbocharged car provide many years of trouble free running.

[dieseltrain79]

Sorry they were available through Lexus dealers , albeit 2nd hand but practically new .

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by dieseltrain79

Sorry they were available through Lexus dealers , albeit 2nd hand but practically new .

This is off topic but pardon??

Lexus dealers sold 'near new' SC400s? No they did not. Those cars were only badged a Lexus in USA and I can quite confidently say that Australian Lexus dealerships did not sell rebadged Japanese Soarers.

[GT-spec15]

The Soarer is a fantastic car, but their image is somewhat shot now that they are old, cheap, and all manner of clowns drive them.

The 1JZ twin turbo six is a sweet thing indeed, and those Toyota engines are bulletproof.

[Cambo351]

Forced induction with smaller displacement is the way of the future, like it or lump it.

Check out my little review of the 1.0L Ecoboost Focus http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11391986

This is the sort of thing we will be driving in the future.

Let me give you an example from JLR's current line up.

Supercharged 5.0L V8 for the big gun.
Supercharged 3.0L V6, which replaces the 5.0L N/A motor
Turbocharged 2.0L I4, which replaces the old 3.0L V6 N/A motor
Turbocharged 4.4L V8 Diesel, previously the 3.6L TDV8
Turbocharged 3.0L V6 Diesel
Turbocharged 2.2L I4 Diesel

I see a trend forming there...AND a number of those engines, are actually Ford motors...