VF Holden

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by russellw

We are talking about two different things here.

Exterior styling - which is a matter of personal taste but which does nothing to lift the standard of anything anyway and certainly not in this case.

Features / technology where it does lift the barrier and bring us closer to attaining global standards.

I've little doubt that FoA will be watching this closely but I'd be equally sure that much of the tech is already on the drawing board for the next round of updates.

Still doesn't change the simple fact that the biggest problem Ford has is the dealer network - the same as it has been for two decades.

Russ

Dead right about exterior styling and I would suspect the powers that be at Holden would be jumping for joy as the masses have taken to the styling. A Holden dealer told me that all Holden dealers were pleasantly suprised by both the looks and feature upgrades.

I would be very suprised if FoA weren't already aware of the features that the VF was going to have sometime ago as they both share similar suppliers and general trade speak.

The think your comment in regards to the dealer network is not valid at all seeing the large car segment has not just diminished for Ford but has for Aurion & Commodore as well. Oh and the fact that there hasnt been a Falcon ad for 18 months now can't be the fault of the dealer body cant it? And I am not here to blame Ford for the lack of advertising at all. There is no point spending your marketing bikkies on somethin the masses arent overly interested in. Harsh but ture.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by russellw

We are talking about two different things here.

Exterior styling - which is a matter of personal taste but which does nothing to lift the standard of anything anyway and certainly not in this case.

Features / technology where it does lift the barrier and bring us closer to attaining global standards.

I've little doubt that FoA will be watching this closely but I'd be equally sure that much of the tech is already on the drawing board for the next round of updates.

Still doesn't change the simple fact that the biggest problem Ford has is the dealer network - the same as it has been for two decades.

Russ

Its not the dealers. Its Ford themselves. Up here in Queensland 2 of the major Brisbane dealers are great. I've had them go out of their way to help me, but I was buying a decent amount of cars off them (for myself personally and business). Ford CRC on the other hand have given me the worse impression of any business I have ever dealt with.

For this reason alone I will never buy a "New" Ford again.

[TUF_302]

Interior yes!, the rest looks like a cheap Korean Aurion copy!

[mik]

Originally Posted by Lardman

It's also the fact they're taking that weight off the wheels and distributing it easily - Like pushing a trolley with 20kg on the front is much harder than doing it with 20kg in the middle, and improves handling and how easily it turns, so on.

as for fuel burn, a lot of it also has to do with advances in transmission losses, fuel cuts and EFI tuning that they learn over the years. Use of lightweight materials in the interior helps a ton with this too.

I tend to use my phone as an mp3 these days instead as well. I find it easier than faffing about with cd's and I can play what I want

looking forward to some real world road test`s.

[jpd80]

Commodore hasn't had a body change in seven years, it understandable that VE sales are low,
so I have a feeling that VF will give Holden a healthy boost in sales, especially when the
fuel economy numbers are released..

Styling is a matter of taset and I can either take or leave the VF, it's not an offensive design,
so Ithink it will probably do quite well against the Asian imports in so far as attracting buyers
who would normally buy Camry, Accord, even the Sonata. If the 3.0 V6 gets close to 8 l/100 km, look out..

[gtfpv]

the VF . will compete driectly against the FU , the FU will have an in your face styling kit, which ford believes will leave the VF behind the FU falcon , the FU will feature new technologies like WTF , and LOL , - Weather Traction Feature, and Luxury Onboard Logistics , which will leave the perception of the commadore in a VF ordinary state .

[Stagg]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

the VF . will compete driectly against the FU , the FU will have an in your face styling kit, which ford believes will leave the VF behind the FU falcon , the FU will feature new technologies like WTF , and LOL , - Weather Traction Feature, and Luxury Onboard Logistics , which will leave the perception of the commadore in a VF ordinary state .

I personally, am not sure if this is a pun or the FU will actually have WTF and LOL

I sure hope that the FU is also DTF... Digital Technological Flappy gearbox

[Joe5619]

What is WTF & LOL technologies?? Those letters mean something else to me that arn't technologies!!

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

What is WTF & LOL technologies?? Those letters mean something else to me that arn't technologies!!

You speak computer?!

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Dead right about exterior styling and I would suspect the powers that be at Holden would be jumping for joy as the masses have taken to the styling. A Holden dealer told me that all Holden dealers were pleasantly suprised by both the looks and feature upgrades.

I would be very suprised if FoA weren't already aware of the features that the VF was going to have sometime ago as they both share similar suppliers and general trade speak.

The think your comment in regards to the dealer network is not valid at all seeing the large car segment has not just diminished for Ford but has for Aurion & Commodore as well. Oh and the fact that there hasnt been a Falcon ad for 18 months now can't be the fault of the dealer body cant it? And I am not here to blame Ford for the lack of advertising at all. There is no point spending your marketing bikkies on somethin the masses arent overly interested in. Harsh but ture.

Despite VE getting older and older and only getting relatively minor updates, Falcons market share has never picked up, even though for many of those years it was clearly the better car.

Other models Ford have imported have been highly competitive, but have failed to set the charts on fire. The usual explanations are bandied around, supply problems, marketing etc, but the truth is during the life of those cars they never really pick up.

The common link is not the cars, but the dealer network and the lack of after sales support from Ford. Sure marketing plays a part too, but some on here seem to believe that everyone forgets the local Ford dealer is a jerk the moment they see a good car commercial.

I think the rot started with the success of the BA Falcon. It was a dam sexy and well equipped car and was ahead of the game for its time. Ford sold a lot of them with a strong marketing campaign and a car with great road presense. Lots of folks who hadn't considered a Falcon in years, went and sat behind the wheel of the B series cars as an owner or as a fleet driver.

Then as the problems started to show up and Ford did their usual duck and weave around warranty issues, which can be summarised as do the least and inconvenience the customer the most, people had to have a lot of interaction with their dealers and Ford CRC and what they saw and experienced they didn't like.

FG is still paying the price in sales for that.

Then almost incomprehensibly Ford repeated the bad customer experience for Territory. Some months Terri now struggles to outsell Kluger, a very much inferior vehicle that isn't exactly a young design either. Chalk that up to the negative media coverage and past owners of Territory that Ford and the dealers let down. Territory might be a success compared to Falcon, buts not much to boast about. Given how it drives, it should be doing better.

The Ford range today is the strongest its been in years if not at any time in the local companies history. These days it takes an exceptional Ford product to break through the bad rap Ford has in the marketplace. They can't crack the top three, let alone be number one as a brand. Are people going to seriously argue that the reason is a supply issue for every imported car and the lack of a a decent tv add as the ONLY problems Ford has right now?

Like Russ said its a two decade problem and Ford have utterly failed to address it. It simply can't be brushed away as a non issue.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

I know what you're saying DanielXR8. While I now have a good relationship with my dealer (servicing, sales was top notch) it's hard to compete with the likes of say Lexus.

I guy I know bought a Lexus IS 250 (not sure of model, was about the same as my F6) and every time he goes for servicing he gets:
- Loan car for the day
- Tea, coffee, breakfast etc provided at drop off
- Bottle of champagne in the passengers seat when he picks it up

He thought it was a joke the first time, then they did it again for the next service, and the next service after that. He queried the service manager and he said it was about the "experience" of owning a luxury car rather than just good service. They want you to feel like you've got something special, not just because of the money you spent but because of the brand you bought.

This philosophy could see the revival of many local manufactures, unfortunately, that's got about as much chance of happening as me winning the lotto.

[Giant Cranium]

what do they charge for a service? wont be $250

[mik]

it is all relative, for the lexus treatment you pay in other ways, buy parts, take a hack saw to give them an arm and a leg.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Originally Posted by mik

it is all relative, for the lexus treatment you pay in other ways, buy parts, take a hack saw to give them an arm and a leg.

This is true... and I would guess this is where the local market has the advantage of cheap / after market parts in steady supply.

Giant Cranium, it was about the same as mine ~$300.

[djjase]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

the VF . will compete driectly against the FU , the FU will have an in your face styling kit, which ford believes will leave the VF behind the FU falcon , the FU will feature new technologies like WTF , and LOL , - Weather Traction Feature, and Luxury Onboard Logistics , which will leave the perception of the commadore in a VF ordinary state .

Seriously the FU will need to have Facebook and Twitter as standard so you let your friends know where you are (and the thief) plus you can have a FB page so your car will like other cars as they drive past each other.

Also don't forget the GPS so the COPS can find you and know when you ripped a skid or you went over the speed limits

Pray and hope that they don't use Windows 8 as the OS

[djjase]

Yep the 2014 Ford is going to be awesome



I think I will put my order in for one of these in 2014

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Despite VE getting older and older and only getting relatively minor updates, Falcons market share has never picked up, even though for many of those years it was clearly the better car.

Other models Ford have imported have been highly competitive, but have failed to set the charts on fire. The usual explanations are bandied around, supply problems, marketing etc, but the truth is during the life of those cars they never really pick up.

The common link is not the cars, but the dealer network and the lack of after sales support from Ford. Sure marketing plays a part too, but some on here seem to believe that everyone forgets the local Ford dealer is a jerk the moment they see a good car commercial.

I think the rot started with the success of the BA Falcon. It was a dam sexy and well equipped car and was ahead of the game for its time. Ford sold a lot of them with a strong marketing campaign and a car with great road presense. Lots of folks who hadn't considered a Falcon in years, went and sat behind the wheel of the B series cars as an owner or as a fleet driver.

Then as the problems started to show up and Ford did their usual duck and weave around warranty issues, which can be summarised as do the least and inconvenience the customer the most, people had to have a lot of interaction with their dealers and Ford CRC and what they saw and experienced they didn't like.

FG is still paying the price in sales for that.

Then almost incomprehensibly Ford repeated the bad customer experience for Territory. Some months Terri now struggles to outsell Kluger, a very much inferior vehicle that isn't exactly a young design either. Chalk that up to the negative media coverage and past owners of Territory that Ford and the dealers let down. Territory might be a success compared to Falcon, buts not much to boast about. Given how it drives, it should be doing better.

The Ford range today is the strongest its been in years if not at any time in the local companies history. These days it takes an exceptional Ford product to break through the bad rap Ford has in the marketplace. They can't crack the top three, let alone be number one as a brand. Are people going to seriously argue that the reason is a supply issue for every imported car and the lack of a a decent tv add as the ONLY problems Ford has right now?

Like Russ said its a two decade problem and Ford have utterly failed to address it. It simply can't be brushed away as a non issue.

When you have a dealer network of nearly 300, you will have a few bad eggs. Think of it as a classroom with 30 kids. Some will tell you the truth, some won't. That's life. The Forum Chairman and now yourself talk about 2 decades of issues with ford dealers. Well the last time I checked 2 decades ago started in the year 1993 Ford Australia was #1 through to 1996 with a smaller number of Ford Franchises than what is today. It wasnt till 1996 that there was a sales slide. Enter AU falcon. Great car mechanically but at the time very polarising in looks. Made it very difficult for Ford and its dealer network. Then, they pull a Ford Dealer Principal in as President of Ford Australia and guess what? The company turns its local production dilema into a ovetime. And if it wasnt for that person, the likely hood of a 2014 Falcon would have been zlich as there would not have been a Territory. There would have instead have been a high ride BA Wagon as it was going to be sort of like the advertura which was a roaring success. I can see how a couple of people could come to the conclusion that based on 1 or 2 experiences that the Ford Dealer Network is useless but really when this statement stemmed from a Forum Director/Chairman, I am a little suprised.

[fgpsi]

Not sure if it's been posted but have been told that the HSV's will have Camaro style small square tail lights.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by fgpsi

Not sure if it's been posted but have been told that the HSV's will have Camaro style small square tail lights.

If WHEELS is accurate..photo in December issue....

[XRtowcar]

An long as the next Falcon doesn't look like another update of an AU then I'll be happy.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

An long as the next Falcon doesn't look like another update of an AU then I'll be happy.

Really? I reckon if it looked like an updated AU, I'd buy 3.

[bigwil]

There's a picture of a SS VF in todays herald sun, looks okay.

[FPV]

SS-V Details are due at 12am tonight according to Car Advice.

Here is the Herald Sun article:
http://www.news.com.au/news/revealed...-1226577925184

[DanielXR8]

VF SS-V Video has just come out. Looks nice to me:

http://video.carsguide.com.au/233506...-Commdore-SS-V

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

VF SS-V Video has just come out. Looks nice to me:

http://video.carsguide.com.au/233506...-Commdore-SS-V

No more unpainted matt black trim on a Sporty Aussie sedan, yay. The high gloss painted black trim and chrome detailing makes it look like it could pass as a new HSV. The black wheels really work on it.

It would look great in white.

[XtRmn8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It would look great in white.

+1

That orange does not look great in the video.

[BHDOGS]

the rear of the car looks ugly as

[greenfoam]

I'm not sure what I think about the back of it but they say the cd of the thing is less than .30 and you can't complain about that. Its MUCH more slippery than the VE. First time they've made a gain since the VN in aero goodness.

Silver wheels have been a fashion dead end since 2011 so its lucky they picked up on the trend and went dark. Otherwise it would have looked dated very quickly.

[Brazen]

I reckon it has rear seat airbags and a knee airbag bringing the count to 9.

Am I the only one surprised at how comprehensive this VF is looking like? I wasn't expecting half the stuff - electric park brake, auto parking, front city crash, lane departure, Internet apps, head up display, rear cross traffic warning. I was thinking it would be just keyless start, blind spot assist and maybe standard rear view camera.

I wonder if Ford was expecting this considering Holden is just simply plugging into the GM parts bin and so no secrets being released through local suppliers.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I reckon it has rear seat airbags and a knee airbag bringing the count to 9.

Am I the only one surprised at how comprehensive this VF is looking like? I wasn't expecting half the stuff - electric park brake, auto parking, front city crash, lane departure, Internet apps, head up display, rear cross traffic warning. I was thinking it would be just keyless start, blind spot assist and maybe standard rear view camera.

I wonder if Ford was expecting this considering Holden is just simply plugging into the GM parts bin and so no secrets being released through local suppliers.

This is the most extensive update for a midlife model I can remember. Maybe AU to BA is the only real other comparison.

I can't imagine that Ford thought this car would be quite as extensive a make over as it really is. If they haven't got some of those electronics gadgets already to go in what would have been the premium trim Falcons before VF's release, I would say its probably to late now to be thinking about putting them in at all at this point. Falcons release really isn't that far away and you can bet the last thing they want to do is delay it and give Holden even more months with no new competition.

As for trim and surface details in the cabin, I would think they were completely surprised. No Australian car has ever tried to raise the bar like this before.

I suspect Ford will be putting more standard equipment in then they anticipated and having to buy much higher grade materials then they had planned. It probably still won't match Commodore model for model, but unless Holden has changed the engines, Ford should still have the upper hand on engines and transmissions.

Having seen the SS-V now I really think Ford should give serious thought to the 2014 GS morphing into a better equipped and cheaper XR8 to take on SS-V and be Fords Halo car in the Ford range. GT can stay as a premium only option with FPV.

The other company this car causes a real headache to is HSV. They are really going to have to raise the bar in their VF based offerings.