Malaysian Airways Flight 370

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by ray38l

The Malaysian prime minister has confirmed it crashed in the Indian ocean. I can see a big investigation coming as to why it took almost 3 weeks to work that out

Especially considering Jindalee and Pine Gap probably watched MH370 track south over the Indian Ocean.

[Pepscobra]

The Malaysian government is totally inept at dealing with an issue like this at a global level.
You can't help but get the feeling they were more worried about covering up some of their own shortcomings in the first few days than actually wanting to cooperate with the other countries that wanted to help. I wish we knew all the facts instead of allowing other counties waste resources on wild goose chases.
I really feel for the families involved, this is very heartbreaking.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

The Malaysian government is totally inept at dealing with an issue like this at a global level.
You can't help but get the feeling they were more worried about covering up some of their own shortcomings in the first few days than actually wanting to cooperate with the other countries that wanted to help. I wish we knew all the facts instead of allowing other counties waste resources on wild goose chases.
I really feel for the families involved, this is very heartbreaking.

This tragedy poses an interesting situation. Do governments expose their hand early on in the search saying they had the capability of tracking MH370 with radar/spy satellites, or conversely, have to admit they had no capability tracking MH370. It would appear Malaysia falls in the latter category.

I think it's pertinent to wait until positive confirmation has been received MH370 crashed in the southern Indian Ocean.

[russellw]

For once, I'm siding with the Chinese on this.

While I can understand the immense pressure on the Malaysian authorities to provide some clarity about what has happened, to take data that even Inmarsat have acknowledged is an "unprecedented technique" and use that to make the announcement they have is itself unprecedented.

“This really was a shot in the dark,” Chris McLaughlin, senior vice president of external affairs at Inmarsat told the BBC. “It’s a credit to the scientific team that they managed to model this.

Given the statement above and the fact that this is the same company which announced last week that the plane could have travelled down either a Northern or Souther corridor you'll excuse me if I don't have a lot of faith.

That the Malaysians don't seem to be getting a lot of help from those who probably should have the best tech in the region is something else that has me wondering. The US is usually front and centre in these things but apart from a couple of relatively token efforts they have been notably quiet on the whole subject.

The plane may well be at the bottom of the Indian Ocean somewhere but on the information currently available publicly it's a long bow to draw before I'd be prepared to make the announcement that has been made.

I'm sure it isn't over with yet.

Cheers
Russ

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by XBROO

**** this is a very bad joke, I feel for the families involved and can understand their anger. Nothing even concrete yet and they are giving them the bad news WTF. And no less but a ******* text message, it's just not right.

While I understand where your coming from, what would you have them do?

The planes been missing for 3 weeks. Not a trace has been found on land. The remaining option is its in the water so dangerous even search vessels are leaving the area at the moment, and therefore may never be found. All are presumed dead, so the location really is irrelevant.

No one has claimed responsibility for a terrorist attack. No one is demanding a ransom.

Where to from there? Wait 6 weeks? 12 weeks?

Its pretty obvious something catastrophic happened, and unfortunately it looks like the plane will not be found anytime soon.

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

This tragedy poses an interesting situation. Do governments expose their hand early on in the search saying they had the capability of tracking MH370 with radar/spy satellites, or conversely, have to admit they had no capability tracking MH370. It would appear Malaysia falls in the latter category.

You raise a good point and probably hit the nail on the head as to why this entire search has been a joke... Malaysia (and other countries) did not want to expose their spy/military capabilities by revealing what they picked up (or didn't pick up) on their radars.
Looks like Malaysia would be a pretty easy target now though for any country wanting to plan an attack, going by what has been revealed so far.

Sounds all a bit Cold War-ish to me. Surely for everyones sake the main focus should be on finding the plane and determining what happened in order to prevent this occurring again.
If it was an electrical fire that caused all the tracking devices to shut down, smoke/fumes knocked out all the passengers and crew and the plane continued on auto-pilot for another 7 hours until it ran out of fuel and ditched, this needs to be known as soon as possible to prevent another disaster and especially for the sake of other 777-200's of a similar age.

[MercurySilver]

i wouldnt believe a word they say
and havent from the start of this sad mess

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by XWGT

While I understand where your coming from, what would you have them do?

The planes been missing for 3 weeks. Not a trace has been found on land. The remaining option is its in the water so dangerous even search vessels are leaving the area at the moment, and therefore may never be found. All are presumed dead, so the location really is irrelevant.

No one has claimed responsibility for a terrorist attack. No one is demanding a ransom.

Where to from there? Wait 6 weeks? 12 weeks?

Its pretty obvious something catastrophic happened, and unfortunately it looks like the plane will not be found anytime soon.

I think they should wait until it's confirmed that the plane is there, not just announce that because of new information that's where it is. Especially the way the whole thing has been handled from the start. It doesn't matter how long it has been, these people deserve the truth and not another could be.

[cram_it_frog]

So now they have come up with a xfile answer some one did suggest we call in Agent Fox William Mulder

And what do we get a mumbo jumbo chat about signal s from aircraft going to a Inmarsat


Inmarsat's scientists then interrogated the faint pings using a technique based on the Doppler effect, which describes how a wave changes frequency relative to the movement of an observer, in this case the satellite, a spokesman said


is exactly what mulder would have said sound good and it sort of makes sense

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

i wouldnt believe a word they say
and havent from the start of this sad mess

Who are "they"....??? The Malaysians? The Australians? The Chinese? The Americans? All of them?

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

For anyone interested in understanding more on how a Flight Data Recorder (FDR) or Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) works, here is a very basic description. You can then do some more of your own research for the finer details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_data_recorder

Craig H

[SB076]

Originally Posted by stazza

Excuse my ignorance but I was under the impression that this day and age satellites could track anything in real time? As in watch any of that possible debris and track it so its easier to find. I also thought they could zoom in with more clarity than in the pictures? Too many movies I guess!

Yep I guess the old "enhance.... de-pixilate...... remove backscatter..... enhance....ENHANCE" just doest work in real life

But I agree I thought the satellite imagery would be a bit more conclusive than that, however keep in mind that is what they are showing the public, clearer photos may exist.

Hopefully Success will have something soon

[BadMax]

I'm not convinced they have found anything of relevance this far. It's certainly the laziest investigation of seen in my time, no one is in any great hurry to find the plane. And the septics have barely made a comment on the situation.

[Romulus]

These conspiracy theories as to what happened are utter garbage. Blaming the pilot, co-pilot, hi-jacking is pie in the sky lunacy; great for the media to report when they have little else to go by.

ltd's post earlier on sums up the most likely scenario as to what happened.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by russellw

For once, I'm siding with the Chinese on this.

While I can understand the immense pressure on the Malaysian authorities to provide some clarity about what has happened, to take data that even Inmarsat have acknowledged is an "unprecedented technique" and use that to make the announcement they have is itself unprecedented.

“This really was a shot in the dark,” Chris McLaughlin, senior vice president of external affairs at Inmarsat told the BBC. “It’s a credit to the scientific team that they managed to model this.

Given the statement above and the fact that this is the same company which announced last week that the plane could have travelled down either a Northern or Souther corridor you'll excuse me if I don't have a lot of faith.

That the Malaysians don't seem to be getting a lot of help from those who probably should have the best tech in the region is something else that has me wondering. The US is usually front and centre in these things but apart from a couple of relatively token efforts they have been notably quiet on the whole subject.

The plane may well be at the bottom of the Indian Ocean somewhere but on the information currently available publicly it's a long bow to draw before I'd be prepared to make the announcement that has been made.

I'm sure it isn't over with yet.

Cheers
Russ

I agree with Russ, we haven't heard the last about the plane. And if by some chance this disappears from the mainstream media's radar (no pun intended) quickly, you can bet your hat there is far more to the whole situation than meets the eye.

The only way to know why the US has been conspicuously silent about MH370 is to publish the passenger and cargo manifest, unredacted. Ordinarily, passenger manifests aren't published due to privacy and security reasons, but this isn't an ordinary event. If there is stalling and stammering about either, you could also bet your jacket thats the reason behind the silence.

In a nutshell, people wanted this plane to disappear. For what reason, no one (overtly) knows.

[Romulus]

Furthermore, why has the cargo manifest not been provided to AMSA by the Malaysian's? Issues of national security could be easily managed. It beggars the question, why are the Malaysians not co-operating?

[iCat]

Dont worry about the pax, the cargo will offer a clue. Why would something so innocuous not be forthcoming? 'Mangosteen' my ***. ee aw.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by iCat

i was wondering the same Loud Noises. I didn't think it had a huge amount of fuel left once it left that last reference point to the west of Malaysia, then all of a sudden it's supposedly found down south of Perth.

I'm not 100% sure of the announcement that the flight crashed in that location. In fact i don't believe it much at all.

I agree, initial reports claimed the plane had enough fuel to fly from KL to Korea or Pakistan, some 2900 miles.

The distance 'as the crow flies' from KL to Perth is 2500 miles.

This would give it 400 miles of fuel to leave KL, head towards Vietnam for an hour, turn and travel another few hours west before heading to a position 2500 miles south west of Perth. All that on top of fluctuating altitudes extremes which would also increase fuel consumption

It just doesn't calculate if the estimates are anywhere near correct.

Im sorry, but until they provide irrefutable evidence, I don't believe a word the Malaysians say.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by XBROO

I think they should wait until it's confirmed that the plane is there, It doesn't matter how long it has been, these people deserve the truth and not another could be.

That's just the point. There is no truth. There is no answer. No one knows for sure where the plane is and probably never will if it went into the Indian Ocean at the depths their talking about.

At some stage you have to draw a line and say it is most likely all aboard have perished. And I think that's what they are doing. Stating that there is no expectation they are going to find anyone on land or sea anytime soon.

While I agree with you that their communication methods are useless and they have no idea what they are doing, the day was always going to come where they had to declare no chance of survivors being found and I think that's what they have done today.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by XWGT

That's just the point. There is no truth. There is no answer. No one knows for sure where the plane is and probably never will if it went into the Indian Ocean at the depths their talking about.

At some stage you have to draw a line and say it is most likely all aboard have perished. And I think that's what they are doing. Stating that there is no expectation they are going to find anyone on land or sea anytime soon.

While I agree with you that their communication methods are useless and they have no idea what they are doing, the day was always going to come where they had to declare no chance of survivors being found and I think that's what they have done today.

You're probably right mate, but them families are still going to clinch onto hope while the plane hasn't been found. I still can't help but think there's more to him announcing it, as if he wants it over himself. Like why wouldn't they give the cargo detail, as it'll help identify floating debris they might pick up.

[TRAU BLAU]

There doesn't seem to be much information from Boeing about the damaged wing-tip.The media should investigate what was actually done to the wing & the repairs.

[xxx000]

Investigation by media, theories made up on the run
it'll all come out in time

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I call BS.

I was just reading the article in "The Age":

http://www.theage.com.au/world/missi...325-hvmd2.html

and this stood out:



Assumptions? They are using fudge factors??? I thought something smelled fishy about the whole episode, this just confirmed it.

Another question I have not seen raised anywhere is the amount of fuel the plane took on at KL. That single figure would determine its ultimate flight range. Yet I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

You're right, but sadly they have to make assumptions based on its last heading. It would appear that the plane was un-commanded when on its last track, so the likelihood is that it flew to its last way point and kept on going. As for fuel consumption, Malaysian Airlines has remained very secretive as to the total fuel on board, furthermore as the fuel load burns off the plane loses weight and gains more fuel efficiency. You can begin to see why it is a big guesstimate as to where it would end up. Furthermore, compound where the plane may be with added variables like wind conditions at various altitudes and other factors - you can again see why assumptions need to be made.

Facts are, Malaysia's government, military and the airline itself have been quite guarded on this crash which has only made the problem worse. Desperate to save face, the world has been drip fed information which has fueled speculation and just the announcement of certainty that it crashed in the ocean off Perth without the actual wreckage being located only serves to incriminate the Malaysians further.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Denny

There doesn't seem to be much information from Boeing about the damaged wing-tip.The media should investigate what was actually done to the wing & the repairs.

Denny if it were an issue with the wing tip then the plane would have crashed much earlier into the flight.

[cram_it_frog]

I am not sure of all of the details but few years ago a private chater of fly in fly out workers left perth not sure but they found the jet in queensland a little later it was decompresion that did it but like this case nothing was heard from the pilot

It was heading for the gold fields but just ke[t going

that was scarry and to think this is posibly not the first time this has happened in a aircraft with no word from the crew just vaniish

[vbvbvb088]

Idea I have been thinking about. Looking for black boxes miles under sea and a 30-ish day battery life is a difficult task. In planes (above certain size) instead of recording the data to tape have it (the data and GPS) transmitted via satellite (?) in real time. So this data can be stored for service life of the plane or deleted if 'non-event' flight. Also no one can disable this system during flight. If fails in flight an alert is raised etc.

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by vbvbvb088

Idea I have been thinking about. Looking for black boxes miles under sea and a 30-ish day battery life is a difficult task. In planes (above certain size) instead of recording the data to tape have it (the data and GPS) transmitted via satellite (?) in real time. So this data can be stored for service life of the plane or deleted if 'non-event' flight. Also no one can disable this system during flight. If fails in flight an alert is raised etc.

I would have thought this to be the case already?

Damn it, TV!!

[motomk]

Originally Posted by cram_it_frog

I am not sure of all of the details but few years ago a private chater of fly in fly out workers left perth not sure but they found the jet in queensland a little later it was decompresion that did it but like this case nothing was heard from the pilot

It was heading for the gold fields but just ke[t going

that was scarry and to think this is posibly not the first time this has happened in a aircraft with no word from the crew just vaniish

Was not working that night, but heard all about it the next day. Very sad.

I was working over the weekend, obviously it was a little busier than normal with all the search planes in the Southern Ocean and elsewhere. 2 Chinese planes flew in on Saturday and 2 Japanese planes on Sunday.

[FPVS3]

Originally Posted by Denny

There doesn't seem to be much information from Boeing about the damaged wing-tip.The media should investigate what was actually done to the wing & the repairs.

A damaged wing tip and subsequent repair doesn't mean much.

[FGX-351]

I tend to believe the announcement made early this morning serves as a means of getting some "breathing room" for the Malaysian Government from upset relatives.

I'm also not buying the announcement until I see proof.