Falcon I6 to be dropped in favour of a V6 - Page 10

**Polyal** · 13-07-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

If they weren't late getting new models onto the market they wouldn't be in the financial mess they are in. How did Ford let its major opposition have a two year head start with an all new model? This has left Ford Australia in a perilous situation where the US are basing future model decisions on the current model's volumes and profitability. 2007 isn't a typical year. Look at Falcon sales in 2001 and then in 2003 and you will see how much impact a good vehicle has on sales figures and profits.

The end is nigh for the Ford Falcon.

FF

In theory you are right, but in reality there are so many factors governing when a model is released. From component delays, to gateway's, etc etc.

I dont know how they did it so closely in the 90's, although those cars are alot more "basic" than now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DK30RB

If you were to walk into a Ford Dealership and then into a Toyota Dealership TODAY, you would have the choice of the Aurion or the BA. The orion is 8 months away.

BF2 buddy (yes there is a big enough difference), did you come here just to stir up crap? The I6 is a killer engine, world class? Well, depends on what you are talking about. Better than any 6 in the local market, sure is. Aurion gets a 6 speed auto standard doesn't? That and less weight will obviously make it feel a tad more lively. Tried towing yet?

2002xr6 · 13-07-2007, 10:07 AM

if i heard correctly on the radio thismorning they will not drop the i6 without a fight.

**Polyal** · 13-07-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2002xr6

if i heard correctly on the radio thismorning they will not drop the i6 without a fight.

Pretty sure fairfax is running something, there was a quick vid on Sunrise this morning.

I think the I6 is safe for the next 5 years, unless a management decision is made and its just forced upon them.

DK30RB · 13-07-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

In theory you are right, but in reality there are so many factors governing when a model is released. From component delays, to gateway's, etc etc.

I dont know how they did it so closely in the 90's, although those cars are alot more "basic" than now.

BF2 buddy (yes there is a big enough difference), did you come here just to stir up crap? The I6 is a killer engine, world class? Well, depends on what you are talking about. Better than any 6 in the local market, sure is. Aurion gets a 6 speed auto standard doesn't? That and less weight will obviously make it feel a tad more lively. Tried towing yet?

I'm not here to stir up crap, i'm here for an open discussion on the I6 v V6 debate. If you can't handle an opinion that doesn't agree with yours then shut down your PC.

BF/BFII...Oooh different tail lights, and headlights. Huge difference..... There is a reason they call if BFII. Its becasue there are not enough changes to warrant a change to BG (or whatever else would come next)

Again with the towing. I don't tow, don't have a need to tow, and as far as i can tell won't ever have the need to tow. How many falcons do you actually see with a towbar. It would be lucky to be 2%.

If i did need a car for towing, i certainly wouldn't buy an Aurion, but i also wouldn't buy an I6 Falcon. I would look more along the lines of a V8 Lancruiser.

**Polyal** · 13-07-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DK30RB

I'm not here to stir up crap, i'm here for an open discussion on the I6 v V6 debate. If you can't handle an opinion that doesn't agree with yours then shut down your PC.

BF/BFII...Oooh different tail lights, and headlights. Huge difference..... There is a reason they call if BFII. Its becasue there are not enough changes to warrant a change to BG (or whatever else would come next)

Again with the towing. I don't tow, don't have a need to tow, and as far as i can tell won't ever have the need to tow. How many falcons do you actually see with a towbar. It would be lucky to be 2%.

If i did need a car for towing, i certainly wouldn't buy an Aurion, but i also wouldn't buy an I6 Falcon. I would look more along the lines of a V8 Lancruiser.

2%!!!! Surely you are kidding! Obviously no one here has the figures but it would be a hell of a lot higher than that.

BF is a hell of a lot different to the BA, ok styling isn't but I thought we were talking about engines and other technical details, not how companies can tart up there current model just for the sake of it. (Because the Aurion looks nothing like a camry does it?).

Even if you dont tow, a I6 ZF will do everything better than a V6 6 speed auto. Better find something else to cling on to other than your 0.3l/100 fuel "advantage". Even then all engines are not the same from factory so those figures are only a guide.

Has anyone thought about the Territory, or the utes for that matter, V6's in them, GREAT! :togo:

dallasv8 · 13-07-2007, 11:06 AM

give me the straight 6 any day.
its just not Aussie to have a v6 in a ford,whats next, whack a v6 in then make it front wheel drive?

by the way, there are loads of fords with towbars in Aus,just leave the city limits and you will see.

daniel_rossy · 13-07-2007, 11:10 AM

yeah thats really bad, as someone said, i6 death, falcon death...

DK30RB · 13-07-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

2%!!!! Surely you are kidding! Obviously no one here has the figures but it would be a hell of a lot higher than that.

BF is a hell of a lot different to the BA, ok styling isn't but I thought we were talking about engines and other technical details, not how companies can tart up there current model just for the sake of it. (Because the Aurion looks nothing like a camry does it?).

Even if you dont tow, a I6 ZF will do everything better than a V6 6 speed auto. Better find something else to cling on to other than your 0.3l/100 fuel "advantage". Even then all engines are not the same from factory so those figures are only a guide.

Has anyone thought about the Territory, or the utes for that matter, V6's in them, GREAT! :togo:

I never said anything about Aurion not being a V6 camry.

I'm not clinging to my 0.3l advantage. Like i said this is car number 10 for me since 1994, in less than 2years the Aurion will be gone and replaced with whatever else takes my fancy at the time.

I't may seem that i'm Aurion biased, but really i just buy what i think is the best for me at the time. I don't look at a car as a personal object, nor a reflection on anybody's personality.

Some people on here take it as a personal attack as soon as you say something bad about the ford.

A car is a means of getting from A - B.

b0son · 13-07-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think the I6 is safe for the next 5 years, unless a management decision is made and its just forced upon them.

I've read 'within 3 years'.... I would doubt this though, unless Orion will be capable of housing both style engines, or an entirely new model will be out in 3 years.

uranium_death · 13-07-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

**nothing worth quoting**

I don't think that's a fair statement at all. In fact, it's offensive to many.

People that run in the Special Olympics are at least making something of their unfortunate situation.

I have more respect for a "retard" (as you put it) in the Special Olympics than a fat slob who sits on the couch all day, leeching off the government, beating up their family and doing nothing worthwhile.

You didn't make this statement up I know, but instead of criticising such people, be thankful you have full control of your mental functions.

The Aurion has it over the Falcon too, regardless of what you think. Yes, it is just a V6 Camry and is plain as piddle, but it is at an advantage because it is a new car (public perception goes a long way!), and coupled with Toyota's re-sale value as well as (by anecdotes) better customer service, I think anybody who has an Aurion may not be as retarded as you think.

Ford must respond accordingly with the Orion or that is it, and teach their salespeople how to be competent.

b0son · 13-07-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MethodX

If Ford give the V6 some capacity it will be ok.
Better to have Falcon in a V6 guise than nothing.

More likely direct injection and/or low-blow turbo, which the V6 duratec was designed to accommodate.

plext · 13-07-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DK30RB

Various Toyota propoganda

You were warned.

Go away for a week.

b0son · 13-07-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dallasv8

by the way, there are loads of fords with towbars in Aus,just leave the city limits and you will see.

LOL. Thats like saying loads of people play the banjo, just leave the city limits....

SpoolMan · 13-07-2007, 11:38 AM

Channel 7 news at 11am they have a story on this, its in 20 mins time....

Dave_au · 13-07-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Anybody who thinks the I6 is world class needs a reality check, it's hardly a world class engine.. granted it is better than it was and is a lot better than what Holden offer...

Amen.

I know most people like normality, I guess our case as the FFAU crowd we have spent years protecting the reputation of the I6, enjoying the praise of the performance of the Typhoon and the XR6T, especially against Holden, whilst the Boss engines took a slightly different approach to performance than what we were hoping.

BUT times are changing. Euro standard emissions compliance have killed off many great engines - even engines greater than the I6, like the Nissan RB25/26 series, which has now switched to the VQ series v6, and the Nissan 4 Cylinder SR20 series.

It's a fact of life, the issue that the Falcon has had the I6 for so long is more of an abnormality than normal practice in car brands around the world.

If Falcon has to move on, then we should too, the fact that the matter is causing so much conflict is a cause for concern.

colossus · 13-07-2007, 11:53 AM

What other factory 4 door car produces 240kw from a 6 cylinder all for $45K? None. All this at what 6psi? This is a killer engine, with so much potential - in todays performance car market it kills just about everything in its price range. I don't see the sense in letting it go for a V6 - BMW seem to think I6 is the go, so if its good enough for a BMW its certainly good enough for a Falcon - maybe just offer it in a smaller optional capacity to keep the commuter market happy

irlewy86 · 13-07-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

LOL. Thats like saying loads of people play the banjo, just leave the city limits....

Loads of people also own guns, leave the city limits I need some moving target practise.

Deadman · 13-07-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Channel 7 news at 11am they have a story on this, its in 20 mins time....

Channel 9 had it in their news @ 11. Lasted about 30 seconds. Just the same thing we're hearing here though. "Investigating options" .. blah blah "could be due to falling sales" blah blah. So nothing new from them :(

b0son · 13-07-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colossus

BMW seem to think I6 is the go, so if its good enough for a BMW its certainly good enough for a Falcon

BMW can afford to continue developing it. Ford cant, thats why they're looking at a v6.

Quote:

maybe just offer it in a smaller optional capacity to keep the commuter market happy

They cant afford to continue developing the existing I6, they're going to now create a whole new smaller I6?

whiskieboy · 13-07-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

GOLD!

Sounds similar to what the Sth. Australian Government did in 2004 when Mitsubishi was planning to close the Lonsdale engine plant.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...571002600.html

If I lived in Geelong I would be very concerned.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/...5389_news.html

FF

I am not concerned about the engine plant closing, thats only speculation from an on line web based VERY VERY biased "information source".
What i'm concerned about is politicians getting involved in something they know nothing about, probably for their own agenda, talking to people who have better things to do.
This whole thing is in regards to a "speculative " piece in a web based RAG.
Its just a waste of time.

irlewy86 · 13-07-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Stylist

Oh dear, I've opened up a can of worms here. This thread needs to be locked up.

It wasn't supposed to be a I6 vs V6 debate, it was to be about speculation that the I6 was going to be dropped. I suggest a few people need to go on holiday as well.

Well to finally make an opinion on the rumor of Ford dropping the I6 I don't doubt it for a second. Thats because they dropped the V8 (thankfully it came back) and they also pulled out of local racing in Australia (thankfully they are back in full swing). So Ford will probably drop the I6 for some foreign bag of **** that is smooth, refined and gutless (just like a Toyota).

outback_ute · 13-07-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskieboy

I am not concerned about the engine plant closing, thats only speculation from an on line web based VERY VERY biased "information source".
What i'm concerned about is politicians getting involved in something they know nothing about, probably for their own agenda, talking to people who have better things to do.
This whole thing is in regards to a "speculative " piece in a web based RAG.
Its just a waste of time.

Agree entirely. What a beat-up. I think Ford should respond a bit more forcefully in sound bites of 10 words or less, so the message gets through - we've all seen what Mitsubishi has/is going through, the constant chipping away puts doubts in potential customers' minds. With falling sales, and an old model hanging around for far too long it will be too easy for doubts to creep into people's minds otherwise, and doubts like that tend to be self-fulfilling.

Will the 4.0 six live or die long-term? Well nothing lasts forever, there are a few avenues I can dream up off the top of my head that would see it stay, but as has been alluded to the cost of manufacturing in Australia is a bigger obstacle than any factor relating to the engine itself. For one example, it would be a perfect engine to use in F-150s (back to the future really) but potential volumes are way above what Geelong could build (or is it the panel pressing area that limits production volumes first?). Other opportunities would include a smaller capacity, lighter weight version with a shorter deck alloy block (harking back to the pre-250ci days). I'm sure there is scope to reduce the bore spacing but that would mean renewing every large cast item (head, manifolds, sump etc).

Depending what happens with the small version of the modular V8, an engine lineup of 3.5L Volvo based 6cyl, ~4.6L V8 and ~5.8L V8 would work for me., but I think the packaging advantages of a V6 would win out over an inline if you were making a choice from scratch.

dddp · 13-07-2007, 03:42 PM

apparently Ford have been making a V6 engine since 1926, they must've been making them before anyone else

:

according to news.com.au - no doubt they know what they're on about

:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...9-1242,00.html

andrewts · 13-07-2007, 03:47 PM

Haha they said it on the radio too apparently, the Inline V6.

Mongoose · 13-07-2007, 04:24 PM

I hope they use that 4.2 V6 they had in the old jag XJ6's (im pretty sure it was a v6)

Perana · 13-07-2007, 04:36 PM

That was an inline 6 and was VERY outdated when it was replaced by the AJV8 in 1994.

XR8-260 · 13-07-2007, 04:42 PM

A modern V6 with capacity around 3.8L would be okay imo. As much as I like the inline 6, I wouldn't mind seeing change. The I6 is an old engine which has already been improved to a great extent. How much potential is left?

uranium_death · 13-07-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewts

Haha they said it on the radio too apparently, the Inline V6.

As I've said about 50 million times today, Matt Brown (or is it Nat Brown?) kept referring to the Falcon's engine as the "Inline V6 Engine."

When you've been woken up by your alarm and you're cranky, you don't take well to silly little journos believing they have it all covered, yet they leave the back door open. Honestly, one of the most basic things about knowing about an engine...cylinder configuration.

Spend 3 minutes on a website about cars and the different is easily understood.

andrewts · 13-07-2007, 04:46 PM

Yeah, you just hope it isn't representative of the level of knowledge they have on everything else. I had a chuckle, it didn't really ruin my day though.

Edit: It's Matt Brown (http://abc.net.au/aroundtheworld/content/s1320393.htm)

**Falcon Coupe** · 13-07-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Stylist

Oh dear, I've opened up a can of worms here. This thread needs to be locked up.

It wasn't supposed to be a I6 vs V6 debate, it was to be about speculation that the I6 was going to be dropped. I suggest a few people need to go on holiday as well.

Well it's you're thread so... job done.